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November, 2023

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Resort shop ruined new boots. Do I have a leg to stand on?

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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
I'll try to keep this short. Went to Tremblant and bought new Hawx Ultra 120s at the resort shop. Put in my old footbeds, I had a fantastic day in them and brought them back for a minor punch near the ankle due to my inner ankle bones rubbing. I specifically asked for the smallest change they could do.

I pick them up the next morning and they're blown the hell up, the whole hinge is over a cm out of place and my foot started to over-pronate in them. I believe the tech didn't realize the plastic on these boots is thinner than usual. Incredible pain ensues and I go back a couple times throughout the day to try to get it fixed. They try heating it up and putting shims and foam in but nothing works. I unfortunately have to leave before I can go to them a final time to try and work out a working solution.

Recently had a weekend in Vermont ruined, couldn't ski more than a day in them even while downing ibuprofen. Another bootfitter told me they're busted and couldn't be reset with heat or otherwise fixed due to how much they've been modified. He puts in a heel riser which gets me through the day but I couldn't walk for a couple days after without incredible pain in my calf.

I'm incredibly frustrated that I dropped almost $500 on these new boots only to now have a pair of lemons on my hands. I'm planning on calling the shop and demanding a partial refund at the least. I know they'll be difficult to come to an agreement with, so my question is do I have a fair case here to keep pushing with them or am I SOL?
Feb 18 2020 4:01PM
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HypeBeast
Posts: 9482 - Karma: 67,871
I mean they couldn't do the punch with you there? Seems like something to do with customer in store.

That's fucked
Feb 18 2020 5:42PM
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Substitute
Posts: 1367 - Karma: 2,240
That is unfortunate. I work in VT as a boot-fitter and I totally hear you on why this sucks. Sounds like the tech got a little over his head with that punch which is like the first thing they teach a fitter not to do. Sorry that happened to you man.

So, as far as the shop that screwed up goes it's up to their policy on whether or not they will cover your boot. (I know my shop would). I would try and chat with them about it.

Usually heating them up will bring the punch back at least a bit. This is easy enough to do with a heat gun and patience, but like the other fitter said, some materials are less receptive to being reheated. So I would use they advice on this, but I don't think it will harm the boot (unless you heat them up too much and then you could melt the boot, obviously that would suck more). But gentle heat added slowly to the area of the punch and the surrounding area might bring it back.

Good luck talking to the shop, and I hope you get your boots squared away.
Feb 18 2020 5:58PM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
They told me they could do it overnight so that's what I went along with.

And thanks substitute, I'll call and see if they have a similar policy in place. They tried heating it twice already + the atomic store next door put it in their oven (and then asked me to do memory fit which then made it wider I realized), it's gotten a bit better but far from what it originally felt like to me. At this point I feel that I'd be throwing good money after bad trying to ask a shop around me to continue working it. I guess there's no harm in breaking out my hair dryer and trying to DIY it though.
Feb 19 2020 12:07AM
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FaunaSkis
Posts: 535 - Karma: 5,812
Not to turn this into r/legaladvice but I would imagine you'd be protected under Canadas Consumer Protections and would have the right to have them fix or replace your boot. If theyre difficult, there is a process about making a formal complaint to the government/the courts and taking it from there but that's a way down the line and would be time consuming and likely costly.

You mentioned calling the shop and "demanding" something, ( i dont know if you meant that in the legal sense) but I would call, ask politely to speak to the manager, calmly explain what has happened (I find it easier to right it down before-hand to keep the story straight & stay calm), explain the situation you're in now, and set out what you would like them to do about it i.e. (pay somebody else for) getting the boots fixed, or replaced and a refund of the money you spent on a service you didn't recieve i.e. modifying your boots so that they are comfortable & fit for purpose to ski in.

When things go wrong like this, the best way to deal with it is to do it in the most curteous, but assertive manner and if they start arguing, dont argue back, you'll not get what you want. Just say you'll call again another time or be hearing from somebody regarding your consumer rights and hang up if they don't stop trying to argue.
Feb 19 2020 8:16AM
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animator
Posts: 4491 - Karma: 25,719
Yup, like Fauna and Substitute said, there should be something in place for you to be covered for the cost of the boots. The shop I work at also has a guaranteed fit policy so if we fuck your boot up (which we don’t), we’ll get you in another one. Also like Fauna pointed out, the buyers protection could be worth looking in to if the shop wants to be difficult (which I honestly can’t imagine they would be if they’re a good shop). Good luck man!
Feb 19 2020 10:02AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5064 - Karma: 42,729
All the advice in this thread is good. One last thing I would try: find a shop who has the Fischer vacuum mold system and have them do that process to your atomics. A shop over-baked my XTD last year which led to the pivot holes being blown out. We did the Fischer process to them and they tightened back up perfectly.
Feb 19 2020 10:05AM
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B.Quincy
Posts: 1074 - Karma: 964
The atomics use a grillamead (I think I spelled that right...) which is a lot thinner and more temperature sensetive than other boots. What more than likely happened was he used a standard punch with standard force and totally over blew it which is super easy to do on the atomics. Like others said call and calmly explain what happened, helping calm and easy going customers is likely to get better results than demanding and being a jerk.
Feb 19 2020 1:42PM
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animator
Posts: 4491 - Karma: 25,719
B.QuincyThe atomics use a grillamead (I think I spelled that right...) which is a lot thinner and more temperature sensetive than other boots. What more than likely happened was he used a standard punch with standard force and totally over blew it which is super easy to do on the atomics. Like others said call and calmly explain what happened, helping calm and easy going customers is likely to get better results than demanding and being a jerk.

Grilamid* but this is spot on, it’s been a recurring thing with Atomic boots and I’m sure if you’re calm and explain what happened they’d be cool and help you out!
Feb 19 2020 2:09PM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Thanks all for your replies. I did say "demand" but assertive would have been more of the word I was looking for; I actually tend to roll over in situations like these but I'm frustrated enough with this situation to remain firm (and polite ofc). I just got off the phone with an employee (the one who sold me the boots, nice guy) and a manager will call me back later today. I don't think they have any explicit quality guarantee policy so I'll see what the manager suggests for a resolution.

The vacuum fit idea cydwhit suggestion could be worth a shot, especially since he had the same issue with the blown out ankle. Only problem is that there isn't a store doing vacuum fits in all of NYC so it'd be a trek. And if I properly remember my research in digging around onenerdykid's posts, my 2020 Ultra 120s aren't grilamid (just very thin in many places) but the XTDs are so the vacuum fit might behave differently in that case.

**This post was edited on Feb 19th 2020 at 3:02:09pm

**This post was edited on Feb 19th 2020 at 3:02:58pm
Feb 19 2020 2:59PM
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SoVT
Posts: 118 - Karma: -10
If you can get up to southern Vermont I got a guy that can get you straightened out. They are both atomic and fisher fitters. And nasty.
Feb 20 2020 1:12PM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Thanks Collin, unfortunately I won't be trekking up there for a while.

I've called three times since Wednesday and left my number each time to the promise of a manager reaching out. I'm going to try one more time and tell them I'm going to initiate a chargeback if I don't hear back. Any reasons against this? Getting fed up...
Feb 22 2020 8:59PM
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xxACIDTRIPxx
Posts: 5980 - Karma: 8,163
you have a leg to stand on idiot
Feb 23 2020 2:11AM
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,544
They should have just ground it if you wanted it that small.
Feb 23 2020 3:11AM
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SoVT
Posts: 118 - Karma: -10
I wouldn’t back charge unless it’s a last result. I’d walk in there with the boots and put them on the counter and not leave until it was fixed. New boots or work fixed. New boots preferably. Like dead serious. The chance of getting money back is very small due to the fact that you have the product. They fucked it up. But you still have a product that was purchased. I get that it sucks but you need to deal with the shop in person. And do it nicely. You can go there. Hand them the boots and be nice about it. But in all honesty over the phone is not gonna solve shit and you still have to go back to get your boots fit correctly. So suck it up. Make the drive. Do it in person. Get the new boots. Don’t let them touch them. Go to reputable fitter.
Feb 24 2020 6:56AM
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,544
collin.zecherI wouldn’t back charge unless it’s a last result. I’d walk in there with the boots and put them on the counter and not leave until it was fixed. New boots or work fixed. New boots preferably. Like dead serious. The chance of getting money back is very small due to the fact that you have the product. They fucked it up. But you still have a product that was purchased. I get that it sucks but you need to deal with the shop in person. And do it nicely. You can go there. Hand them the boots and be nice about it. But in all honesty over the phone is not gonna solve shit and you still have to go back to get your boots fit correctly. So suck it up. Make the drive. Do it in person. Get the new boots. Don’t let them touch them. Go to reputable fitter.


Pretty much exactly this. I work at a ski shop and I can attest to the idea of going there in person. Theres a lot going on from a managers perspective especially now in the season. Warranties, ordering next years equipment, getting rid of this years equipment, etc. Going there in person is the best way to make sure your issue stays fresh in their mind. They have a face to put the issue to and can remember the conversation a lot better.

Also, like mentioned above, being nice is the best way to get something you want. Cant emphasize this one enough.
Feb 24 2020 2:49PM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Thanks. Trust me, I'd go up there if I could, but it wouldn't be worth it between the 16-hr drive, gas, car rental, and room for a night. I've called three separate times politely asking to talk to someone in order to get this resolved and I've offered to ship them back myself. Each time a shop employee has taken my name and number down with the promise of getting back to me. I get they're busy but at this point I'm afraid they're just ignoring me. I can't think of any other way this could be resolved outside of calling my card company and seeing if I can file a dispute; I understand it's a stretch given I still have the boots but if it can spur someone in charge to call me back or result in even a partial refund then it's worth the attempt in my eyes.
Feb 24 2020 5:54PM
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B.Quincy
Posts: 1074 - Karma: 964
animatorGrilamid* but this is spot on, it’s been a recurring thing with Atomic boots and I’m sure if you’re calm and explain what happened they’d be cool and help you out!


Yeah I was taking a shot in the dark on the spelling thanks lol
Feb 26 2020 10:48AM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Well I gave them a couple days to call me back after the third attempt and nothing. I called capital one to file a dispute but I'm not feeling the most optimistic; I tried explaining that an employee damaged the merchandise they sold me beyond repair and they ignored my attempts to send them back, but the representative seemed to have a hard time filing a claim through their system that best represents the situation.

I worry shop might just say "we did what he asked and he still has the boots" and that's that. Fingers crossed.
Feb 27 2020 1:01PM
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SoVT
Posts: 118 - Karma: -10
At least there are good end of season sales starting now!! Full tilts are sweet!
Mar 1 2020 12:34PM
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animator
Posts: 4491 - Karma: 25,719
Update?
Mar 3 2020 9:12PM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Not much to report right now. Capital One put the money back onto my card but the dispute period is something like 90 days so I'm waiting it out. Getting new boots next week from a real bootfitter, hoping for an end of season deal.
Mar 4 2020 1:28PM
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SoVT
Posts: 118 - Karma: -10
Hey did you ever get anything solved? Did you get a new boot? What size are you. There’s a smoking deal on tgr for a brand new hawk ultra.
Mar 9 2020 7:25AM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Thanks for the heads up, I found that post but I'm 29.5. Will get fitted on Friday so still a few days' wait.
Mar 9 2020 12:46PM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Well, Cap1 sided with the merchant and is giving me until the 31st to submit an appeal letter. Luckily the shop had a weak case, only really saying "not enough details provided by the customer". I can type up as much as I want and provide supporting evidence; the receipt for the new pair of hawx I bought included.

However, what would really help is "a statement on company letterhead from a professional in the same business" AKA a bootfitter stating that an ankle punch is something to do gently and can absolutely ruin a boot if done improperly. Unfortunately I can't have someone physically look at the boot and type that up in stronger terms since everything is closed due to COVID-19. Any bootfitters willing to help? Would venmo a couple six-pack's worth for the effort.
Mar 25 2020 5:15PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6583 - Karma: 10,207
vprcrWell, Cap1 sided with the merchant and is giving me until the 31st to submit an appeal letter. Luckily the shop had a weak case, only really saying "not enough details provided by the customer". I can type up as much as I want and provide supporting evidence; the receipt for the new pair of hawx I bought included.

However, what would really help is "a statement on company letterhead from a professional in the same business" AKA a bootfitter stating that an ankle punch is something to do gently and can absolutely ruin a boot if done improperly. Unfortunately I can't have someone physically look at the boot and type that up in stronger terms since everything is closed due to COVID-19. Any bootfitters willing to help? Would venmo a couple six-pack's worth for the effort.


If this goes sideways for you, keep me in the loop. I'll try to get you sorted once the armageddon blows over.
Mar 26 2020 3:59AM
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vprcr
Posts: 9 - Karma: 34
Thanks Nerdy! I managed to get it sorted after a lot of back and forth with capital one and sending some documents over. I got in touch with a local bootfitter who wrote a statement basically explaining that they fucked up and should have fixed it themselves. Glad to be out of this mess finally.
May 25 2020 1:19AM
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