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Newbies on ice

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flexbomber
Posts: 3 - Karma: 39
Hi all,

I'm new to skiing this year. Live in Wisconsin. Yesterday was my first experience with icy/slicker-than-ish conditions during a 50-degree afternoon melt on hard-packed, old snow... It hurt -- my pride more than my body, but I fell more times yesterday than I have during each of my previous outings combined.

As a newbie, would a longer ski have made my experience less discouraging?

Each park I've visited has set me up with 158cm rentals when I tell them I'm new to the sport. I'm 6'3, 260 pounds. This does not jive with what the online forum community, articles, and salespersons in the stores I've visited tell me I should be looking at. General consensus online and in-stores seems that I should be looking 175+.

Until yesterday, I'd been generally pleased with the way I've progressed. I get that shorter, softer skis are better suited for shorter turns at slower speeds. I've been enjoying that life; I'm not looking to move past it. However, there was nothing slow about yesterday. I reverted back to my first day of lessons - tried a couple times of trying to remain in snow plow with painfully slow turns. Nuh uh. Didn't work. Every run I made after our lunch break resulted in flying down the hill at speeds I wouldn't even drive my truck at on this kind of substrate. I eventually just gave in, embraced the suck, and spent my afternoon rendering my best impression of a wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tubeman - much to the chagrin of my wife and our friends (two snowboarders and tiny, tiny skier - all three of whom are much smaller than I and had no solutions to offer).

I felt like I was getting on edge but it didn't do anything -- just kept flying sideways. I'm heavy, I know, but I'm an athletic-ish' 260. I got low and wide for the turns; I always had to abort or tumble. Would a longer edge have helped? Or at least made my attempts at land-speed record setting somewhat controllable? Orrr, should I just stay at the bar during these conditions forever?

Thanks!
Feb 3 2020 3:16PM
23 0
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GrandThings
Posts: 2940 - Karma: 28,846
Couple thoughts here OP but first off - welcome to the club, there's no turning back now...

Riding in variable conditions (while often super frustrating) will make you a better skier in the long run. Only way to learn to deal with the crud and bumps is to keep hitting them over and over and over until they feel like nothing. Unless you're a native to CO or Utah or BC - shitty conditions are just part of the game.

I'll let others more knowledgeable than me chime in on your skis, but those certainly seem pretty short/small for someone your size. I'm 6' 2'' and ride 178s which are still on the shorter side.
Feb 3 2020 3:21PM
18 0
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r00kie
Posts: 5194 - Karma: 58,795
1: Glad you're sticking with it, a lot of people walk away once they get frustrated.
2: Those skis are too short. Typically resorts will give beginners shorter skis if they are beginners because they wedge better but 150s seem really short for someone who is over 6ft. A little extra edge will help. Rental skis also are the lowest of low in terms of spec and maintenance. If your small Midwest hill is anything like the one I work at those skis are very overdue for an edge sharpening and wouldn't be surprised if they have never had one. Dull edges will not help ya cut into snow but that is the unfortunate reality of rental gear.
3: A couple technique things that could help. Beginners typically are not forward enough in the their stance. The front edges of the skis do the most work so if you are leaned back they do not cut into the snow/ice. Make sure your knees are pressed out over your toes, hips are on top of your heels, not behind in a squatted positions though, and yours shoulders are in line with knees and toes. Hold your hands out in front to help. Also make sure your boots are on correctly. Do not stuff your pants are anything else into the cuff. Buckle it tight, ski a couple runs to loosen them up and buckle tighter again. You cannot lean into the boot is it is on to loose. Ice is hard, I hate teaching students on ice because it is harder to keep control, you just have to focus on getting forward and getting those edges to cut into the snow.

Edit for missed key words.

**This post was edited on Feb 3rd 2020 at 3:47:56pm
Feb 3 2020 3:44PM
7 0
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flexbomber
Posts: 3 - Karma: 39
I appreciate the tips! I'm sure the last couple runs yesterday with the hardest biffs were result of my being back too far; instinctively trying real hard to avoid face-to-ground contact like a bad one-night-stand at a bar the next night. I tried real hard to put my big boy pants on for the last run and really tried to dig with absolutely zero luck - then stood up and reverted to the wide turns and breakneck speed culminating in what I felt was an appropriate grand finale - something like a triple backflip with a double twist and a walk 30 feet back up the hill to collect both of my skis and my dignity.

I've actually been super appreciative of the shorties -- it took me better than one full day to learn how not to cross my skis when gliding or taking steps; fairly certain the guys running the lift my first day will remember my exploits in the maze for as long as they live.

I booked another lesson for next weekend and will rent some longer skis to give them the old college try. I just hope that going longer does not equate to having to wrestle my skis to keep it slow. If they go alright I'll pull the trigger on a pair; I'm over $500 in rental gear for the season already. I don't have any real interest in going fast, I want nothing to do with shredding the pow, gnarring the grind, or whatever else I hear the cool kids saying. I'm mostly just out there for the participation trophy and a 'good game' slap from my wife.

Thanks again!
r00kie1: Glad you're sticking with it, a lot of people walk away once they get frustrated.
2: Those skis are too short. Typically resorts will give beginners shorter skis if they are beginners because they wedge better but 150s seem really short for someone who is over 6ft. A little extra edge will help. Rental skis also are the lowest of low in terms of spec and maintenance. If your small Midwest hill is anything like the one I work at those skis are very overdue for an edge sharpening and wouldn't be surprised if they have never had one. Dull edges will not help ya cut into snow but that is the unfortunate reality of rental gear.
3: A couple technique things that could help. Beginners typically are not forward enough in the their stance. The front edges of the skis do the most work so if you are leaned back they do not cut into the snow/ice. Make sure your knees are pressed out over your toes, hips are on top of your heels, not behind in a squatted positions though, and yours shoulders are in line with knees and toes. Hold your hands out in front to help. Also make sure your boots are on correctly. Do not stuff your pants are anything else into the cuff. Buckle it tight, ski a couple runs to loosen them up and buckle tighter again. You cannot lean into the boot is it is on to loose. Ice is hard, I hate teaching students on ice because it is harder to keep control, you just have to focus on getting forward and getting those edges to cut into the snow.

Edit for missed key words.

**This post was edited on Feb 3rd 2020 at 3:47:56pm
Feb 3 2020 4:30PM
4 0
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r00kie
Posts: 5194 - Karma: 58,795
flexbomberI appreciate the tips! I'm sure the last couple runs yesterday with the hardest biffs were result of my being back too far; instinctively trying real hard to avoid face-to-ground contact like a bad one-night-stand at a bar the next night. I tried real hard to put my big boy pants on for the last run and really tried to dig with absolutely zero luck - then stood up and reverted to the wide turns and breakneck speed culminating in what I felt was an appropriate grand finale - something like a triple backflip with a double twist and a walk 30 feet back up the hill to collect both of my skis and my dignity.

I've actually been super appreciative of the shorties -- it took me better than one full day to learn how not to cross my skis when gliding or taking steps; fairly certain the guys running the lift my first day will remember my exploits in the maze for as long as they live.

I booked another lesson for next weekend and will rent some longer skis to give them the old college try. I just hope that going longer does not equate to having to wrestle my skis to keep it slow. If they go alright I'll pull the trigger on a pair; I'm over $500 in rental gear for the season already. I don't have any real interest in going fast, I want nothing to do with shredding the pow, gnarring the grind, or whatever else I hear the cool kids saying. I'm mostly just out there for the participation trophy and a 'good game' slap from my wife.

Thanks again!


Glad to help! Seems like you enjoy this glorious sport a lot, might be time to invest in your gear. Something about making that purchase to really get ya going. Javing your own gear thats fresh and is designed around how you intend to ski will also help you progress. You get comfortable and know how YOUR skis ski. Also you will appreciate skipping the shitshow that is the rental process. Shop around for deals on skis and bindings online to save cash but buy boots in person. Boot fitment makes or breaks skiing for people. Stoked that youre into this!
Feb 3 2020 4:54PM
7 0
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GrandThings
Posts: 2940 - Karma: 28,846
r00kieYou get comfortable and know how YOUR skis ski.


Dont underestimate this!

If you're already $500 into rentals you should totally just pull the trigger on your own pair. March is coming up which I've been told is the best time to buy gear from stores trying to offload inventory.

Additionally, it seems like you're really loving skiing which is sick! Especially because you're in the shittiest (learning) phase right now. As Henrik says, skiing only gets more and more fun the better you get!
Feb 4 2020 9:41AM
6 0
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flexbomber
Posts: 3 - Karma: 39
Good to know. My wife corrected me last night that I'm only at about $380 in rentals and the remainder was for rentals we paid for with my nephews when we brought them. Either way, I would like to start moving towards a purchase.

I talked to a co-worker today, 52 years old and in better-than-average shape, who happened to ski his first time on Friday. Guy's telling me he was hitting blues before lunch and hockey stops at end of the day. Maybe I've lost the athleticism I claim to still be holding onto ten years after college football. My only real points of reference now are fat guys rec league basketball and bar league softball... Either way, I feel further emasculated. He said his friends that took him, whom he described as avid skiers, told him to knock 5cm off what the charts recommend, so he ended up with skis right under his chin (guy's like 5'3" - so that's probably as short of skis as he could find). But that train of thought would put me at 175, which is nearly 20cm longer than what I've used so far. Think there's any use to working my way up, say with a 168, or do I just man up?
GrandThingsDont underestimate this!

If you're already $500 into rentals you should totally just pull the trigger on your own pair. March is coming up which I've been told is the best time to buy gear from stores trying to offload inventory.

Additionally, it seems like you're really loving skiing which is sick! Especially because you're in the shittiest (learning) phase right now. As Henrik says, skiing only gets more and more fun the better you get!
Feb 4 2020 1:38PM
1 0
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Rich_D
Posts: 99 - Karma: 527
flexbomberGood to know. My wife corrected me last night that I'm only at about $380 in rentals and the remainder was for rentals we paid for with my nephews when we brought them. Either way, I would like to start moving towards a purchase.

I talked to a co-worker today, 52 years old and in better-than-average shape, who happened to ski his first time on Friday. Guy's telling me he was hitting blues before lunch and hockey stops at end of the day. Maybe I've lost the athleticism I claim to still be holding onto ten years after college football. My only real points of reference now are fat guys rec league basketball and bar league softball... Either way, I feel further emasculated. He said his friends that took him, whom he described as avid skiers, told him to knock 5cm off what the charts recommend, so he ended up with skis right under his chin (guy's like 5'3" - so that's probably as short of skis as he could find). But that train of thought would put me at 175, which is nearly 20cm longer than what I've used so far. Think there's any use to working my way up, say with a 168, or do I just man up?


One of the biggest things to remember about skiing is that a lot of people become Candide thovex at apres ski or at work on Monday but are in fact shite in reality. If you’re progressing and enjoying it well done because that’s what it’s all about. Don’t over fixate on your gear just keep working on your technique and enjoy
Feb 4 2020 1:53PM
3 0
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lukemostoller
Posts: 31 - Karma: 138
With the amount of money you have already spent on rentals why not just get a pair of your own? It will save you money in the long run and you will be more comfortable on something that fits you. Familiar skis are also a game changer when learning or changing resorts. Knowing what your skis will do in every condition and in every turn is something that all experienced skiers know is important and will appreciate.
Feb 4 2020 3:54PM
1 0
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ShakyFilmer
Posts: 41 - Karma: 59
I’m 6 foot, 125 lbs and ride 183’s. Obviously there are charts for a reason, but I don’t think you should be caught up in what they say, or how your buddies prefer to ski. You should learn about how you prefer to ski, that’s part of progressing and learning how to feel the ski. IMO, especially if you’re into the softer ski, longer ones rock, but that’s just my preference. You should find what works for you, So if you’re gonna pull the trigger on skis of your own, I’d at least try longer ones.

(sorry for all the edits, I’m trash at proofreading)

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:24:48pm

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:30:08pm

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:31:04pm

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:32:23pm
Feb 4 2020 6:22PM
1 0
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clorox
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 4,861
Shins foreword, hips foreword, hands in front, press the shovel of the ski down when initiating turns.

When on ice, hitting a wide stance is useful if you need to turn. Weight should mostly still be on the downhill inside edge, but in this situation, you'll want the uphill ski high enough uphill that you can transfer weight to it if the downhill ski breaks loose.
Feb 4 2020 7:42PM
2 0
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6594 - Karma: 69,705
I don't know if this has been said, but ditch the rentals. You can get away with a longer ski for sure, but that won't be what's most important.

What will be most important, especially at your weight, will be getting a ski with a real sidewall. A lot of rentals have shitty cap construction - with nothing to brace the top of the edge they likely just flex under load instead of biting into the ice and hard snow.

Don't sweat the length too much. Invest in quality gear, take care of it and it'll last you a long time. Good gear won't make you better, but you may be suprised at how much easier things can be with the right setup.
Feb 4 2020 7:48PM
2 0
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b0ss
Posts: 778 - Karma: 6,107
Angulation
Feb 4 2020 9:35PM
0 0
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flexbomber
Posts: 3 - Karma: 39
I appreciate all the feedback. I’ve booked another lesson and called to make sure I could get on some longer skis just for shits.

I’ll get on with buying something. Maybe I’ll wait until March like a previous commenter suggested - the sales I’ve seen at outfitters the last couple weeks and their “clearance” prices aren’t much lower than the sales I saw on the same skis in early January.

I’m glad someone mentioned sidewalls - the guy that fitted me for boots told me to get something with a good sidewall. I figured for quality but hadn’t shopped much yet at that point. Since then, I’ve been looking at “beginner” skis and am mostly seeing cap construction.

Can anyone recommend a good starter set with a bit of give, good for groomed, and a solid construction?

y’all kick ass by the way!
ShakyFilmerI’m 6 foot, 125 lbs and ride 183’s. Obviously there are charts for a reason, but I don’t think you should be caught up in what they say, or how your buddies prefer to ski. You should learn about how you prefer to ski, that’s part of progressing and learning how to feel the ski. IMO, especially if you’re into the softer ski, longer ones rock, but that’s just my preference. You should find what works for you, So if you’re gonna pull the trigger on skis of your own, I’d at least try longer ones.

(sorry for all the edits, I’m trash at proofreading)

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:24:48pm

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:30:08pm

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:31:04pm

**This post was edited on Feb 4th 2020 at 6:32:23pm


BiffbarfI don't know if this has been said, but ditch the rentals. You can get away with a longer ski for sure, but that won't be what's most important.

What will be most important, especially at your weight, will be getting a ski with a real sidewall. A lot of rentals have shitty cap construction - with nothing to brace the top of the edge they likely just flex under load instead of biting into the ice and hard snow.

Don't sweat the length too much. Invest in quality gear, take care of it and it'll last you a long time. Good gear won't make you better, but you may be suprised at how much easier things can be with the right setup.
Feb 4 2020 9:59PM
1 0
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6594 - Karma: 69,705
1st step is getting boots. A bootfitter is the move here. Also, research research research.

Retail stores will almost always have high prices on skis. Evo and freezeproshop online run deals often, and for what you want you'll be able to find quality skis on the cheap. Look for chin height (170-180) length and around or less than a 90 waist. There's a ton of skis out there but the big brands (k2, Salomon, atomic, nordica, rossignol, etc) all have models in those dimensions that you can't go wrong with. When a ski company lists a smaller turn radius on their specs, it usually means the ski is easier to make small turns with. Same when they list stiffness, a softer ski will be more forgiving. Just something you may want to look for.

For bindings, I'm not sure all the offerings for narrow narrow skis but avoid price point bindings with dins lower than 11, as often they're for MUCH lighter skiers and not as durable as many 13+ din offerings.

Aside from that, can't make any specific suggestions as a lot of people here ski skis that would be entirely inappropriate for your intended purpose. Good luck and drop that $$$ you'll be hooked
Feb 4 2020 10:24PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2826 - Karma: 5,367
Biffbarf1st step is getting boots. A bootfitter is the move here. Also, research research research.

This so much. Boots should be where you spend your money. Link below will help.

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/311248/Guide-On--How-to-Buy-Ski-Boots
Feb 4 2020 11:35PM
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Moist_Oatmeal
Posts: 60 - Karma: 110
I just jumped from 156 to 177 and I am 6'1, best decision I have ever made. I went with the Nordica Enforcer 93's, they work great for me on the ice coast. Depending on what type of snow you mainly ski in, the Enforcer 93's or 88's would be a great ski for you.
Feb 5 2020 10:59AM
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