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Unless you own a fucking oil company why would you refute the fact of climate change? Do you not like clean water and air? It amazes me that people think our resources are unlimited.
People deny climate change because animal agriculture is the biggest cause of climate change and deforestation (the latter of which is obviously significant in causing the former), and people don't want to be vegan.
I think it’s mostly because they don’t like the messengers. If you actually have to work for a living it is annoying to have someone who doesn’t lecture you about anything. All the average person hears is another excuse to raise their taxes for zero tangible benefit.
**This post was edited on Jan 20th 2020 at 12:36:17am
2-no one really wants to admit the truth , it’s scary , it’s negative , and there’s probably nothing that can be done
humans have tasted the spoils , they’ll never turn their back on these spoils for bettering the climate , the rich , powerful and greedy will forever keep a grasp on their oil, drilling, polluting, cloning and mass production of meat and cows, the planet has an incurable disease , “us” and the sad truth is , until we’re gone it’s not gonna get better , and no one wants to admit that what they know and love is changing or going away , it’s easier to deny and hold onto hope , I wish I could but I see all around me every day just how much it’s changed
just one small example when I was young I could sled ride almost everyday December thru late March , sometimes in April and October! My kids have sled rid in this yard maybe 2 times a year at best , many years not even able to make snow balls and my oldest is 16!!! There hasn’t been enough snow!
I have pictures of my father in the 40s, 50s, 60s with snow up to the fucking roof! In PA
boooh climate change and it’s natural swing , boooh our lack of moderation and acceleration of pollution and global warming
politicians and the powerful aren’t skiers, they aren’t the 1st to lose what they love so they don’t experience in the way we do , another air conditioner solves their problems !
SavageBiffThat’s the same votes for trump pie chart
2-no one really wants to admit the truth , it’s scary , it’s negative , and there’s probably nothing that can be done
humans have tasted the spoils , they’ll never turn their back on these spoils for bettering the climate , the rich , powerful and greedy will forever keep a grasp on their oil, drilling, polluting, cloning and mass production of meat and cows, the planet has an incurable disease , “us” and the sad truth is , until we’re gone it’s not gonna get better , and no one wants to admit that what they know and love is changing or going away , it’s easier to deny and hold onto hope , I wish I could but I see all around me every day just how much it’s changed
just one small example when I was young I could sled ride almost everyday December thru late March , sometimes in April and October! My kids have sled rid in this yard maybe 2 times a year at best , many years not even able to make snow balls and my oldest is 16!!! There hasn’t been enough snow!
I have pictures of my father in the 40s, 50s, 60s with snow up to the fucking roof! In PA
boooh climate change and it’s natural swing , boooh our lack of moderation and acceleration of pollution and global warming
politicians and the powerful aren’t skiers, they aren’t the 1st to lose what they love so they don’t experience in the way we do , another air conditioner solves their problems !
I agree with you on how big of a deal it is, but I don't necessarily agree with you that it can't be stopped while we are here. Reason being technological advancement. Animal agriculture is a big player in destroying the planet. Veganism is getting much more widespread, but even if consumption of animal products were not to end for moral reasons (which I don't necessarily agree with anyway since moral progress does happen; racism and sexism are largely gone from the western world, in the future so too will be speciesism), technology will bring in lab grown and plant based versions of animal products that will be much more economically and ecologically efficient to produce (currently, lab grown animal products require real animals, due to real animal blood and fetal fluid etc to grow the lab grown stuff, but as technology increases, that will no longer be necessary). That will bring down animal ag for economic reasons if no other due to these production methods being more cost-efficient than animal ag, and the moral and ecological benefits will be - if nothing else - unintended beneficial side effects. Likewise, as alternative energy sources become easier, safer, and cheaper, they will bring down the oil industry - again, even if people don't care about the planet and it's just for economic reasons. Deforestation will drop very significantly with the downfall of animal agriculture (90% of the Amazon that has been destroyed in the past few decades is currently used for animal ag). We'll still need a solution to end the last bit of deforestation, of course. Technology will also at some point get to the point where we can use robots to clean up (garbage in the oceans, etc).
Does this mean we can just sit back and let the free market take care of it by bringing in new more efficient technologies? No, absolutely not. The destruction of this planet is happening extremely fast, and just sitting back and letting things change may take much too long, even though it would in theory happen eventually (as in, the planet may die before the free market has time to take us far enough technologically to end the destruction of the planet). But does it mean that there is potential for us to turn things around? Yes. We just have to not be dumb (which is a lot to ask from humanity, I know). That means all of us should be taking initiative and doing our part to turn things around. Whether that means advocacy, pushing for or helping to develop alternative technologies, vegan or environmental activism, whatever. Different things for different people, but we should all be doing our part to help protect this planet and all life on it.
I agree %100 , my statement was meant to be more there aren’t enough sound minded people like what your saying doing those things for it to happen , not that we can’t , it’s a we won’t , at least not soon enough , hopefully one day , sooner the better , the people trying to make a difference will outweigh the ones who are not
if every human would plant a tree every few days shit that could help , but we’ll never see even 3.5 billion take that action , imagine getting 3.5 billion to give up air conditioning ..... or that ac is the route of all evil just an example
ShadowXVXI agree with you on how big of a deal it is, but I don't necessarily agree with you that it can't be stopped while we are here. Reason being technological advancement. Animal agriculture is a big player in destroying the planet. Veganism is getting much more widespread, but even if consumption of animal products were not to end for moral reasons (which I don't necessarily agree with anyway since moral progress does happen; racism and sexism are largely gone from the western world, in the future so too will be speciesism), technology will bring in lab grown and plant based versions of animal products that will be much more economically and ecologically efficient to produce (currently, lab grown animal products require real animals, due to real animal blood and fetal fluid etc to grow the lab grown stuff, but as technology increases, that will no longer be necessary). That will bring down animal ag for economic reasons if no other due to these production methods being more cost-efficient than animal ag, and the moral and ecological benefits will be - if nothing else - unintended beneficial side effects. Likewise, as alternative energy sources become easier, safer, and cheaper, they will bring down the oil industry - again, even if people don't care about the planet and it's just for economic reasons. Deforestation will drop very significantly with the downfall of animal agriculture (90% of the Amazon that has been destroyed in the past few decades is currently used for animal ag). We'll still need a solution to end the last bit of deforestation, of course. Technology will also at some point get to the point where we can use robots to clean up (garbage in the oceans, etc).
Does this mean we can just sit back and let the free market take care of it by bringing in new more efficient technologies? No, absolutely not. The destruction of this planet is happening extremely fast, and just sitting back and letting things change may take much too long, even though it would in theory happen eventually (as in, the planet may die before the free market has time to take us far enough technologically to end the destruction of the planet). But does it mean that there is potential for us to turn things around? Yes. We just have to not be dumb (which is a lot to ask from humanity, I know). That means all of us should be taking initiative and doing our part to turn things around. Whether that means advocacy, pushing for or helping to develop alternative technologies, vegan or environmental activism, whatever. Different things for different people, but we should all be doing our part to help protect this planet and all life on it.
HYP3R_REAL1TYFuck climate change. The only thing I want is for the poles too shift so nz has endless pow in winter.
SavageBiffI agree %100 , my statement was meant to be more there aren’t enough sound minded people like what your saying doing those things for it to happen , not that we can’t , it’s a we won’t , at least not soon enough , hopefully one day , sooner the better , the people trying to make a difference will outweigh the ones who are not
if every human would plant a tree every few days shit that could help , but we’ll never see even 3.5 billion take that action , imagine getting 3.5 billion to give up air conditioning ..... or that ac is the route of all evil just an example
We don't need 3.5 billion people to change their views. We just need a solid few highly committed people to create change. Most humans are followers. A small handful of people can change society. Right now, the people in charge don't care about the planet. I think the key is not making 3.5 billion people care, but rather making a handful of capable and ambitious people care A LOT. Of course every one of us needs to do our part on the small personal scale too.
ShadowXVXPeople deny climate change because animal agriculture is the biggest cause of climate change and deforestation (the latter of which is obviously significant in causing the former), and people don't want to be vegan.
People don't deny climate change because they dont want to be vegan, they deny it because they really do believe that it is one of the largest scams in the history of modern times. I don't think it is a scam, but I do try to see both sides and why a denier might want to do so. We have to have conversations about this and be open to other view points because if you just scream in their face that they are biggoted assholes they won't want to listen to the points we bring up in the first place.
Humans absolutely have an impact on our environment.
The climate religion, however.. is fucking retarded.
Here's my take on all of it.
Do less harm, lower your consumption, change minds with good, believable information in a calm and collected manner.
The people yelling and screaming about "we only have 10 years left!!!!" every 10 years is ridiculous and does more harm than anything because people have a natural tendency to be stubborn and do the opposite of what's being yelled at them.
The one thing that is certain though.. Nothing will change in any measurable amount until we (first world consumer culture) stop coercing the 3rd world into manufacturing our trinkets while they dump the waste in the nearest river and burn the garbage so they can start the whole process again when the next new gadget comes out.
Buy sustainable. Buy local. Buy American.
And quit trying to tell reasonably intelligent people that they need to pay more taxes to the government in order to change the weather.
ShadowXVXPeople deny climate change because animal agriculture is the biggest cause of climate change and deforestation (the latter of which is obviously significant in causing the former), and people don't want to be vegan.
Sadly I don’t think enough people are aware of this, even within our own community. It’s the same concept though, people deny it because they don’t want to take any personal responsibility, whatever their understanding is of the changes that would need to be made. I’ve been eating fully plant-based for almost 2 years now though, it’s really not that hard. Glad to see this post in the thread because a lot of people really do overlook the impact of animal ag. Also worth mentioning that henrik is following a vegetarian diet right now according to his recent x-games mini documentary (being)
I don't understand climate change denial. Seriously, most conspiracy theories at least make some sense but the idea that there's a globalist cabal of oligarchs scheming to destroy the businesses that make them the most wealth (industry, energy, etc) is just fucking nonsensical. Climate deniers, what motive could there possibly be for this massively organized global conspiracy? Who is lying to us?
I don’t fully believe in climate change. Now, before you get angry and think I’m some sort of uneducated dumbass, hear me out. Our earth is billions of years old, and we haven’t been taking note of how the earth has been changing for very long. Millions of years ago, there was no snow on earth and now, there is. Our earth is constantly changing, and I guess in that aspect, I do believe in climate change, but not the way it is portrayed today. I do not think humans using fossil fuels contribute much to it. The earth has survived for billions of years and has developed its own ways to support life. For example, humans create CO2, and trees and algae’s eat it up. This is the part where i think we do need a change. Deforestation is a big problem, because it’s taking away earths natural defense to high amounts of CO2. On sattlelight maps, we can see that places of high industry such as China and India are significantly greener than more desolate areas such as Canada. This shows that forests are thriving on the increasing amounts of CO2, but when we cut them down, there isn’t anything to take up the CO2. I believe that if we had less deforestation and worked to protect our jungles and forests, we would be able to continue using resources such as oil, because the earth would be able to naturally balance it out. So all in all, I don’t see climate change the way the media portrays it, but do see it as a potential problem with an easier fix than what media would have you believe. So all in all, I believe earth goes through cycles that we cannot yet predict or understand, and I think that our earth will always try to achieve equilibrium, but we should not try to mess with its process of achieving equilibrium, which would be trees and other vegetation. I hope you can understand my view point.
ShadowXVXI agree with you on how big of a deal it is, but I don't necessarily agree with you that it can't be stopped while we are here. Reason being technological advancement. Animal agriculture is a big player in destroying the planet. Veganism is getting much more widespread, but even if consumption of animal products were not to end for moral reasons (which I don't necessarily agree with anyway since moral progress does happen; racism and sexism are largely gone from the western world, in the future so too will be speciesism), technology will bring in lab grown and plant based versions of animal products that will be much more economically and ecologically efficient to produce (currently, lab grown animal products require real animals, due to real animal blood and fetal fluid etc to grow the lab grown stuff, but as technology increases, that will no longer be necessary). That will bring down animal ag for economic reasons if no other due to these production methods being more cost-efficient than animal ag, and the moral and ecological benefits will be - if nothing else - unintended beneficial side effects. Likewise, as alternative energy sources become easier, safer, and cheaper, they will bring down the oil industry - again, even if people don't care about the planet and it's just for economic reasons. Deforestation will drop very significantly with the downfall of animal agriculture (90% of the Amazon that has been destroyed in the past few decades is currently used for animal ag). We'll still need a solution to end the last bit of deforestation, of course. Technology will also at some point get to the point where we can use robots to clean up (garbage in the oceans, etc).
Does this mean we can just sit back and let the free market take care of it by bringing in new more efficient technologies? No, absolutely not. The destruction of this planet is happening extremely fast, and just sitting back and letting things change may take much too long, even though it would in theory happen eventually (as in, the planet may die before the free market has time to take us far enough technologically to end the destruction of the planet). But does it mean that there is potential for us to turn things around? Yes. We just have to not be dumb (which is a lot to ask from humanity, I know). That means all of us should be taking initiative and doing our part to turn things around. Whether that means advocacy, pushing for or helping to develop alternative technologies, vegan or environmental activism, whatever. Different things for different people, but we should all be doing our part to help protect this planet and all life on it.
Sk3islyfI don’t fully believe in climate change. Now, before you get angry and think I’m some sort of uneducated dumbass, hear me out. Our earth is billions of years old, and we haven’t been taking note of how the earth has been changing for very long. Millions of years ago, there was no snow on earth and now, there is. Our earth is constantly changing, and I guess in that aspect, I do believe in climate change, but not the way it is portrayed today. I do not think humans using fossil fuels contribute much to it. The earth has survived for billions of years and has developed its own ways to support life. For example, humans create CO2, and trees and algae’s eat it up. This is the part where i think we do need a change. Deforestation is a big problem, because it’s taking away earths natural defense to high amounts of CO2. On sattlelight maps, we can see that places of high industry such as China and India are significantly greener than more desolate areas such as Canada. This shows that forests are thriving on the increasing amounts of CO2, but when we cut them down, there isn’t anything to take up the CO2. I believe that if we had less deforestation and worked to protect our jungles and forests, we would be able to continue using resources such as oil, because the earth would be able to naturally balance it out. So all in all, I don’t see climate change the way the media portrays it, but do see it as a potential problem with an easier fix than what media would have you believe. So all in all, I believe earth goes through cycles that we cannot yet predict or understand, and I think that our earth will always try to achieve equilibrium, but we should not try to mess with its process of achieving equilibrium, which would be trees and other vegetation. I hope you can understand my view point.
the largest growing religion in the US is called Climate Change formerly known as Global Warming. I can’t remember why they changed the name though.
Ya it’s just my opinion but anyone that thinks stuff like this is accurate when we didn’t have the science, or record keeping of these things is accurate should be pushing shopping carts with the other special people at my local grocer
HYP3R_REAL1TYFuck climate change. The only thing I want is for the poles too shift so nz has endless pow in winter.
how would that happen? Ocean currents are by far the greatest influence in climate, especially in a place like NZ, and most currents are set up by the rotation of the earth, which wouldn't change even in the poles flipped
Sk3islyfOn sattlelight maps, we can see that places of high industry such as China and India are significantly greener than more desolate areas such as Canada. This shows that forests are thriving on the increasing amounts of CO2, but when we cut them down, there isn’t anything to take up the CO2.
yo just so you know:
forested area in canada: 979 million hectares
forested area in china: 208 million hectares
furthermore, there are more barren areas in canada because it's too fucking cold and windy for trees to grow. Has nothing to do with CO2 supply, which is never a limiting factor in the environment for plant growth.
**This post was edited on Jan 21st 2020 at 10:46:18am
Sk3islyfOn sattlelight maps, we can see that places of high industry such as China and India are significantly greener than more desolate areas such as Canada. This shows that forests are thriving on the increasing amounts of CO2, but when we cut them down, there isn’t anything to take up the CO2.
So all in all, I don’t see climate change the way the media portrays it, but do see it as a potential problem with an easier fix than what media would have you believe. So all in all, I believe earth goes through cycles that we cannot yet predict or understand, and I think that our earth will always try to achieve equilibrium, but we should not try to mess with its process of achieving equilibrium, which would be trees and other vegetation. I hope you can understand my view point.
pinkcamo1000yo just so you know:
forested area in canada: 979 million hectares
forested area in china: 208 million hectares
furthermore, there are more barren areas in canada because it's too fucking cold and windy for trees to grow. Has nothing to do with CO2 supply, which is never a limiting factor in the environment for plant growth.
**This post was edited on Jan 21st 2020 at 10:46:18am
Just to build off of what pinkcamo was saying, you're comparing two completely different ecological regions, "barren" areas in Canada can't be compared to the forests in China and India. Canada also has some of the strictest regulations forthe harvesting and the re-foresting of forests in the world, with companies who are obligated to restore the forest both legally and financially.
I believe that anthropocentric-caused climate change is singlehandly the most complex issue that our society will face, due to the solution having to solve both economic and ecological issues. It will most definitely not be an easy fix. The issue is not having to "fix" what humans have done to nature. Nature doesn't give a fuck about humans, it will balance itself out. The issue (in my opinion) is attempting to prevent nature from moving away from the course that is the small region of stability that allows for human survival. A changing climate will result in food and water shortages, massive transfers of populations, and a loss of ecological services that allow for humans to survive.
No, definitely not veganism. I’m just talking about countries like Brazil and Australia where people are burning done forests. Like the government in Brazil was burning down the Amazon in the middle of fire seasons. And now some apparently 200+ arsons got arrested in Australia for burning down the outback during fire season.
ShadowXVXPeople deny climate change because animal agriculture is the biggest cause of climate change and deforestation (the latter of which is obviously significant in causing the former), and people don't want to be vegan.
This is false. If basing the largest cause of climate change on greenhouse gas emissions, both the energy sector and transportation emit far more than all agriculture combined. Energy production is by far the #1.
pinkcamo1000how would that happen? Ocean currents are by far the greatest influence in climate, especially in a place like NZ, and most currents are set up by the rotation of the earth, which wouldn't change even in the poles flipped
If you haven’t realised I have no clue what I’m talking about
VinnieFThis is false. If basing the largest cause of climate change on greenhouse gas emissions, both the energy sector and transportation emit far more than all agriculture combined. Energy production is by far the #1.
It's a lot more than just greenhouse gas emissions. Animal ag is the leading cause of deforestation, and deforestation is huge in affecting climate change. Animal ag/commercial fishing is also catastrophic for the oceans and obviously we need healthy oceans in order to have a healthy planet.
Whether or not we're talking about the effects of animal ag specifically, I hate how everyone thinks that climate change is the only environmental issue that matters, and that emissions are the only thing that affect climate change, because both of those are absolutely false.
You may be correct that energy is the biggest cause of emissions (and potentially also the biggest cause of climate change, but that's hard to know for sure -- how much is it emissions, versus how much is it deforestation, etc) but I am pretty certain that animal ag is the biggest cause of deforestation and of damaging the oceans, and I would bet that deforestation plays a much bigger role in climate change than most people will acknowledge or even consider. Admittedly, some of this is speculation on my part. What I think we can all agree on is that animal ag and energy are both among the greatest causes of ecological harm.
You sir are the one that should be pushing shopping carts. Go read about ice core drilling and carbon dating and testing carbon from those time periods.
SavageBiffYa it’s just my opinion but anyone that thinks stuff like this is accurate when we didn’t have the science, or record keeping of these things is accurate should be pushing shopping carts with the other special people at my local grocer
ShadowXVXI am pretty certain that animal ag is the biggest cause of deforestation and of damaging the oceans
So you're just guessing and passing it off as fact. Good one.
Biggest cause of current deforestation? Or biggest cause of deforestation ever? If you said "biggest cause of current deforestation in the Amazon", sure, you'd be correct. Anything more and I'd like to see some cold hard numbers to back it up.
collin.zecherYou sir are the one that should be pushing shopping carts. Go read about ice core drilling and carbon dating and testing carbon from those time periods.
edit: quoted the wrong person
**This post was edited on Jan 22nd 2020 at 10:29:04am
SavageBiffYa it’s just my opinion but anyone that thinks stuff like this is accurate when we didn’t have the science, or record keeping of these things is accurate should be pushing shopping carts with the other special people at my local grocer
dude I can assure you we have very accurate climate data from those periods using ice cores, studying pollen cores from bogs, etc. The mideval warming period did happen, but that doesn't mean anthropogenic climate change isn't real.
Furthermore when I worked at a grocery store a bunch of my co-workers had advanced degrees and shit, don't be so judgmental
VinnieFSo you're just guessing and passing it off as fact. Good one.
Biggest cause of current deforestation? Or biggest cause of deforestation ever? If you said "biggest cause of current deforestation in the Amazon", sure, you'd be correct. Anything more and I'd like to see some cold hard numbers to back it up.
yeah seems like all of the "animal ag is ruining the planet" people only really look at industrial factory farming, which is ruining the planet and is super fucked up. But if you can afford it it's not that hard to go buy sustainably raised, local meat, or just go hunting.
Fun fact: weed consumption per use has a higher carbon footprint than beef consumption per use when cultivated in colorado. You damn hippies need to stop doing the marijuana in order to save the planet.
BiffbarfFun fact: weed consumption per use has a higher carbon footprint than beef consumption per use when cultivated in colorado. You damn hippies need to stop doing the marijuana in order to save the planet.
"my body is a sacred temple so I stick to a vegan, non-gmo, organic-only diet"
proceeds to hit the bong and go get blackout drunk
I can’t disagree, I know the same science your talking about I’m just saying not easy to buy in
pinkcamo1000dude I can assure you we have very accurate climate data from those periods using ice cores, studying pollen cores from bogs, etc. The mideval warming period did happen, but that doesn't mean anthropogenic climate change isn't real.
Furthermore when I worked at a grocery store a bunch of my co-workers had advanced degrees and shit, don't be so judgmental
BiffbarfFun fact: weed consumption per use has a higher carbon footprint than beef consumption per use when cultivated in colorado. You damn hippies need to stop doing the marijuana in order to save the planet.
VinnieFSo you're just guessing and passing it off as fact. Good one.
Biggest cause of current deforestation? Or biggest cause of deforestation ever? If you said "biggest cause of current deforestation in the Amazon", sure, you'd be correct. Anything more and I'd like to see some cold hard numbers to back it up.
No, not just guessing. Just admitting that I don't memorize every detail of every statistic and every relevant source for everything I learn. Animal ag is responsible for about half of all deforestation going on right now. 50% isn't as high of a number as 90% (the latter of which is the percentage of the Amazon that's been destroyed in the past few decades that is being used for animal ag), but it's still the leading cause if we consider all rainforest rather than just the Amazon, just not leading by as wide of a margin.
"biggest cause of deforestation ever"
I am referring to what's going on right now, not what was happening a number of decades ago. A number of decades ago, it may well have been true then too, I'm not certain.
Currently, animal ag is the biggest cause of deforestation. I have read statistics stating that it is the biggest cause of climate change as well; I have also read statistics stating that it is currently the second biggest cause of climate change but is on course to become the first biggest within a few decades. Either way, it is my position that deforestation is more pressing than climate change (and that the former significantly contributes to the latter), so it almost certainly holds true (according to what research I have done and what statistics I have come across) that animal ag is the biggest cause of ecological destruction when we collectively consider deforestation, pollution of the oceans (which is largely caused by commercial fishing equipment), and climate change.
As for my claim that deforestation is probably more responsible for climate change than most people will admit, that is indeed speculation, but it's not due to laziness or ignorance; rather, it is due to the fact that no one knows for sure exactly how much one factor contributes to climate change versus another factor. It is my belief that human-caused deforestation is a very significant factor in climate change.
As I said before, I think we can all agree that animal ag is one of the biggest causes of the destruction of this planet (whether we're talking about deforestation or climate change or other related issues). Arguing about whether it is the biggest or second biggest or whatever is completely meaningless because that is irrelevant to the fact that animal ag is very destructive and there is no reason for any of us to be participating in it. Anyone that wants to argue with this should ask themself why they are defending one of the most immoral and destructive industries to ever exist on this planet.
