Gun talk

The real problem is that guns are bought into "gun-free zones". Its these areas that are at high risk

I think people need to realize that we are talking about criminals. New laws are not going to do jack shit

Having a gun significantly increases your chances of getting shot. So you better know how to handle it/yourself properly

My dad says people might obey the law if we brought back cruel and unusual punishment.

BigPurpleSkiSuitMy dad says people might obey the law if we brought back cruel and unusual punishment.

It's been proven that tough on crime does not work. For example compare murder rates in states with death penalty vs without.

People who commit crimes don't weigh their actions against the penalty, they commit the crime because of an impulse, because they think they can get away with it, or because they are mentally ill or don't know better.

I didn't read the shitposting I'm assuming happened on the page before this, but my 2cents:

-I grew up in a house with zero guns; extended family all had guns in their houses
-I now own quite a few guns. Handguns (have concealed carry permit in like 40 states), magazine fed semiautomatic rifles, magazine fed semiautomatic pistols (AR-15 with a brace instead of a stock), and the classic shotgun.
-I'm comfortable around guns and I regularly train with guns for both the military and concealed carry.
-I own them because I enjoy shooting, it's an extension of work, and all that home defense stuff the guys you wouldn't vote for talk about.

I hate participating in the arguments and hubub about what should and shouldn't be legal and for whom. I have my own opinions. My shameless plug though... is training. T. R. A. I. N. I. N.G. IMHO a vast majority of people that concealed carry in the US (Note I didn't say carry, because that would infer that I think open carry is ok or cool... because it's not) don't have enough training (not range time, training) to effectively defend themselves against a threat. That statement should stand by itself, but if we've learned anything from the last 3-5 years it's that most people not only lack training, but they lack the knowledge to know when it is justified/legal to defend themselves with a firearm.

So yeah man, if you want to defend yourself with a firearm, I'm all for that because you have rights and shit. That being said, I would suggest you spend at least FOUR TIMES the amount you spend on your firearm on ammunition and training. Do your research. Don't just do the class where you get certified to apply for a concealed carry. Do class(ES) where you learn the fundamentals (safety, trigger control, grip, tactics), laws, and eventually the added elements of stress and physical exertion under stress.

Well put ^

Also, consider what caliber you want to carry and what would suit you. Don't ever carry a big caliber because people aren't the same as a 1200lb grizzly bear. Focus on something manageable because that will make training under stress much easier.

CaseyThe problem is not the second amendment itself most leftists just want to repeal it for the sake of claiming some sort of moral victory like that’s going to solve anything. The courts have already ruled over and over again that restricting in regulating firearm use in sale is constitutional so I don’t understand what the point you’re trying to make is

**This post was edited on Oct 30th 2018 at 1:28:30pm

**This post was edited on Oct 30th 2018 at 1:29:35pm

OMG the radical leftist hippy mobs want to piss off the republican just for the sake of pissing off republicans.
OR
School children, students and city citizens are sick and tired of living in fear that a gunman walked into their classroom or public spaces and massacres them Duke Nukem style.

freestyler540People who believe that being armed in an active shooting scene will protect them watch waaaaay too many action movies. Have you ever played close quarter paintball game? If you havent, give it a try. The very second you get surprised by an opponent, you go into fear mode and sometimes forget to even pull the trigger. Its not like "call of duty" game... more like getting surprised by a flying baseball bat coming for your face. You will flinch. The attacker wont; he wants to die.
Shooting happen when you least expect it. In Canada, most gun crimes occur in Toronto and most of the victims are bystanders. The whole event will probably be over before you even pull out your gun. For example: drive by shootings.


Personally, I couldnt live in the big city. I always worry about that one maniac that will ruin my day while I am minding my own business. Id rather in far in the mountains

You're right and wrong. You're correct that most people concealing a gun will not likely be able to react if the shooter goes for them first or them specifically, but if you hear gunshots ahead of time and have even just a few seconds to compose your thoughts, most people carrying will be able to react in a calculated manner.

If the shooter is shooting at you, you likely can't stop it. If the shooter is shooting at other people, you have a good chance of stopping it.

In my case if I'd had a gun and training I'd have been crouched behind the podium ready in case someone did come in with the intent to shoot as opposed to being a sitting duck out of sight. I've played paintball before and if you see someone before they see you, you can usually get them out. I know it's not exactly the same, but I'd feel like i had a fighting chance in that case for an active shooter situation instead of hurl the stapler i was holding at their head and run if they came in the door

milk_manYou're right and wrong. You're correct that most people concealing a gun will not likely be able to react if the shooter goes for them first or them specifically, but if you hear gunshots ahead of time and have even just a few seconds to compose your thoughts, most people carrying will be able to react in a calculated manner.

If the shooter is shooting at you, you likely can't stop it. If the shooter is shooting at other people, you have a good chance of stopping it.

freestyler540OMG the radical leftist hippy mobs want to piss off the republican just for the sake of pissing off republicans.
OR
School children, students and city citizens are sick and tired of living in fear that a gunman walked into their classroom or public spaces and massacres them Duke Nukem style.

That wasn’t my question. I asked you why it is necessary to amend or repeal the 2nd Amendment when restrictions on firearm ownership have already been deemed constitutional.

In in other words, the Congress is able to pass laws about this, that is what they are there for. It is not the 2nd Amendment that it is in the way of that, it is the political will of the majority of the American people that has prevented gun reform. Idk what to tell you, that is how democracy works.

You can bitch and moan about the NRA until the cows come home, but the reality is without popular support and member donations they would have zero influence on elected officials. As much as people hate them they are one of the few examples of citizens organizing around an issue that they care about and executing their collective political will in our democracy.

Forget for a second that the issue is guns and insert some other issue that you happen to support and the organization starts to look a little less terrible.

CaseyThat wasn’t my question. I asked you why it is necessary to amend or repeal the 2nd Amendment when restrictions on firearm ownership have already been deemed constitutional.

In in other words, the Congress is able to pass laws about this, that is what they are there for. It is not the 2nd Amendment that it is in the way of that, it is the political will of the majority of the American people that has prevented gun reform. Idk what to tell you, that is how democracy works.

You can bitch and moan about the NRA until the cows come home, but the reality is without popular support and member donations they would have zero influence on elected officials. As much as people hate them they are one of the few examples of citizens organizing around an issue that they care about and executing their collective political will in our democracy.

Forget for a second that the issue is guns and insert some other issue that you happen to support and the organization starts to look a little less terrible.

Its how the supreme court will rule a law that is unconstitutional. Congress can pass any law they want, even if its absolutely ludicrous. As Trump found out, higher courts (Judicial branch) can bar the law from being enacted. With the second amendment, the supreme court can rule that gun control is unconstitutional. You can have the best intentions in the world, but the constitution is the fundamental of a country's governance, that will override anything.
There is no real democracy in US politics. Its not the people that want change, its the representatives in the Senate that have all the card. They are motivated to keep their job, but also have to follow party lines.

The reason why the NRA is so powerful is not the donations they bring to a candidate, its the actions they take to ensure a candidate wins at all costs. They will fund smear campaigns, social media campaigns, get businesses to join and try to get the word out to vote for their guy. The weapon industry is huge and every violent event raises the sales.
The NRA must go back to their roots; an organization that promotes gun safety.

BigPurpleSkiSuitIn my case if I'd had a gun and training I'd have been crouched behind the podium ready in case someone did come in with the intent to shoot as opposed to being a sitting duck out of sight. I've played paintball before and if you see someone before they see you, you can usually get them out. I know it's not exactly the same, but I'd feel like i had a fighting chance in that case for an active shooter situation instead of hurl the stapler i was holding at their head and run if they came in the door

So lets say one Rambo decides to take on a live shooter on a rampage, misses and kills a bystander. Will Rambo get sued? charged? or will be protected under the good Samaritan law?
Who would law enforcement believe is the shooter? They both have guns...

It was myself and my girlfriend in an empty classroom, I wouldn't risk firing a gun with someone in the line of fire like that

freestyler540So lets say one Rambo decides to take on a live shooter on a rampage, misses and kills a bystander. Will Rambo get sued? charged? or will be protected under the good Samaritan law?
Who would law enforcement believe is the shooter? They both have guns...

freestyler540So lets say one Rambo decides to take on a live shooter on a rampage, misses and kills a bystander. Will Rambo get sued? charged? or will be protected under the good Samaritan law?
Who would law enforcement believe is the shooter? They both have guns...

Not to switch up topics here, but this is part of the reason why officers don't shoot to wound and shoot people multiple time. You have a much better chance of hitting your target if you shoot center of mass, rather than an arm or a leg. Bullets can travel a lot farther than people think, and the longer that bullet is travelling, the less likely it is to hit what you want it to.

freestyler540So lets say one Rambo decides to take on a live shooter on a rampage, misses and kills a bystander. Will Rambo get sued? charged? or will be protected under the good Samaritan law?
Who would law enforcement believe is the shooter? They both have guns...

You see stories many times of armed citizens stopping a shooter, but I don't think I've ever seen a story about an armed citizen accidentally killing someone else while trying to stop a shooter. Yeah it's possible, but how many times has it actually happened?

milk_manYou see stories many times of armed citizens stopping a shooter, but I don't think I've ever seen a story about an armed citizen accidentally killing someone else while trying to stop a shooter. Yeah it's possible, but how many times has it actually happened?

This is the road we are starting to go down. There dosen't seem to be a way of stopping these shootings with government regulations (because the government is the only thing that can stop this problem LOL). So people are starting to think they need to take their own measures to protect themselves.

"Buy a gun and you could be one of the those "hero dads" at McDonlads"

milk_manYou see stories many times of armed citizens stopping a shooter, but I don't think I've ever seen a story about an armed citizen accidentally killing someone else while trying to stop a shooter. Yeah it's possible, but how many times has it actually happened?

We had the local SWAT team come in and teach active shooter preparedness at our building at work, the guy said one of his worst fears is getting a victims and shooter mixed up. They train civilians to GTFO if at all possible, armed or not.

CaseyWe had the local SWAT team come in and teach active shooter preparedness at our building at work, the guy said one of his worst fears is getting a victims and shooter mixed up. They train civilians to GTFO if at all possible, armed or not.

For sure for sure. The sad thing about classrooms is that many times there's only one way out, so depending on where the shooter is there may be no way out

It was like this in israel too. But there are soldiers with guns everywhere there

CaseyWe had the local SWAT team come in and teach active shooter preparedness at our building at work, the guy said one of his worst fears is getting a victims and shooter mixed up. They train civilians to GTFO if at all possible, armed or not.

This last page looked really good. Great discussion all around.

As for caliber (someone posted above), yeah... I would recommend 9mm because they are easy to acquire, good ballistics and manageable recoil. Anything smaller than that is pointless (especially during the winter), .40 is dumb and .45 is out of the question for you RN.

Again, I can't stress training enough. A lot of the exchange you're having up there about bystanders and what not... training. training. training. It's not JUST to make you a better shooter, it's also so you can realize that you're nowhere near as good as you think you are (if you were by chance, cocky lol).... it prevents you from taking some reckless or dangerous shots. Ignorance in civilian firearm ownership is just as dangerous sometimes as the shitbird mass shooters being discussed.

BigPurpleSkiSuitIt was myself and my girlfriend in an empty classroom, I wouldn't risk firing a gun with someone in the line of fire like that

I think the real question you have to ask yourself is "Is there really sufficient reason to now obtain a gun and a concealed carry license?". I also go to the U and to be honest while the situation is tragic and scary I don't necessarily believe that its impetus for being armed. It was not a mass shooting it was an isolated incident involving individuals who knew each other. If you are now carrying a gun purely because somebody was shot in a (like I mentioned before) isolated incident statistically you're probably more of a danger than any help you could provide especially if you have no formal training with a firearm. Not here to tell you what to do, but before you make the decision you should consider the financial and saftey implications of that responsibility, and recognize the fact that your best bet in an active shooter scenario (if you want to live) is get away by any means necessary. The gun will only be usable once you put yourself in a position of extreme danger.

This is also true. I didnt hear any shots which is why I went back to an empty classroom. Had i heard them my first action would have been bolt for an exit

JWillySkeezI think the real question you have to ask yourself is "Is there really sufficient reason to now obtain a gun and a concealed carry license?". I also go to the U and to be honest while the situation is tragic and scary I don't necessarily believe that its impetus for being armed. It was not a mass shooting it was an isolated incident involving individuals who knew each other. If you are now carrying a gun purely because somebody was shot in a (like I mentioned before) isolated incident statistically you're probably more of a danger than any help you could provide especially if you have no formal training with a firearm. Not here to tell you what to do, but before you make the decision you should consider the financial and saftey implications of that responsibility, and recognize the fact that your best bet in an active shooter scenario (if you want to live) is get away by any means necessary. The gun will only be usable once you put yourself in a position of extreme danger.

>own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended
>four ruffians break into my house
>"What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle
>blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man
>he's dead on the spot
>draw my pistol on the second man
>misses him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog
>I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot
>"TALLY HO LADS!"
>the grape shot shreds two men in the blast
>sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms
>"FIX BAYONETS"
>charge the last terrified rapscallion
>bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up
>just as the founding fathers intended

Good god i love this green text, what boards do you do on most?

JAHpow>own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended
>four ruffians break into my house
>"What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle
>blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man
>he's dead on the spot
>draw my pistol on the second man
>misses him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog
>I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot
>"TALLY HO LADS!"
>the grape shot shreds two men in the blast
>sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms
>"FIX BAYONETS"
>charge the last terrified rapscallion
>bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up
>just as the founding fathers intended

Well, this was a situation in which you really needed a gun. And that's why you really should buy it. You see, all the thugs and criminal scum already have guns. That's why in America guns are legal. If you have a gun, you are protected. Because of this I bought a rifle not so long ago. I use it for hunting, but I can use it for protection also. The only thing I lack of is a good scope. The one I have now is awful. And it's almost impossible to hunt with it. One of my friends shared with me scopes for long range review, I think I will buy one soon. But this is off-topic. Returning to the main topic - you're right in the part about you definitely need a gun.

**This post was edited on Mar 25th 2020 at 12:25:12pm

u know i make that schtick talk

this is how i look at it. guns dont kill people. people kill people. in the event that you tryed to outlaw guns, this is how it would work. guns are outlawed. law abiding people hand in there guns. murderers and such dont care! they keep there guns, because they have no respect for the law, thats why they kill people! so now, you have good people with no way to protect themselves, and the bad people still have guns. it would be better if everybody had guns to protect themselves, right? if i were you, go get like a s&w 9 mil or something like it. train yourself so you know how to use it, and hope you never need it.