Gun talk

BigPurpleSkiSuitusually am not in any situation where I'd need one

Please share with me the secret of how you manage to successfully control the behaviors of the mentally disturbed, on drugs, or desperate individuals at all times, and into the future. Also, "usually" is not good enough. I like to have a role in my own safety 100% of the time (where legally permitted).

iFlipPlease share with me the secret of how you manage to successfully control the behaviors of the mentally disturbed, on drugs, or desperate individuals at all times, and into the future. Also, "usually" is not good enough. I like to have a role in my own safety 100% of the time (where legally permitted).

Don't go sketchy places late at night. I don't draw attention to myself by wearing luxurious items. Avoid confrontations. I live in a fairly safe area. I lock my door at night. So far I haven't been in a situation apart from being in that active shooter situation at the U of U where I really felt, I need a gun. That said, I would much rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it, especially when I have someone to protect.


Edit: Also I'm 6'5, about 190 and even though I'm not that strong for my height, it's pretty rare that somebody wants to fuck with me just because I look somewhat intimidating, so I haven't found myself being a target for any muggings or anything like that, but I think that's mainly due to my basic street smarts.

**This post was edited on Oct 28th 2018 at 11:58:01pm

UofU student with concealed carry permit here. I was off campus an hour before the alert went out, but I was happy to have my firearm on me while at home just below campus while the dickwad was still running rampant. That said, if you want to carry a firearm, do some training and self assessment before you go gong-ho pistol pete, too many people think having a gun means theyre now the super hero in the room

Skittle.UofU student with concealed carry permit here. I was off campus an hour before the alert went out, but I was happy to have my firearm on me while at home just below campus while the dickwad was still running rampant. That said, if you want to carry a firearm, do some training and self assessment before you go gong-ho pistol pete, too many people think having a gun means theyre now the super hero in the room

Yeah there's no way I'd handle a gun without training. How much did all that stuff cost in the first place?

Its a fair thing to be worried about when guns are so easy for everyone to get. One thing to remember is that having a gun during an assault increases your odds of being shot. But of course there is some situations in which you would risk that.

Please take a standard gun safety class before going through a permit to carry class if you've never handled a firearm before.

JAHpowPlease take a standard gun safety class before going through a permit to carry class if you've never handled a firearm before.

And by standard gun safety class, I mean like a hunters safety course. You will learn a lot of valuable knowledge about both firearms and safely handling them as well as hunting safety. I think that's a way better route than one those evening gun safety classes where they just pack everyone in and you listen to an hour of them telling you not to point guns at people.

I have no problem with guns. I like them. I used to go shooting all the time. As already mentioned seek training even if it is just for home protection. I had a carry permit for awhile but never really went anywhere where I felt the need to carry. Its a big responsibility if you choose to.

People who believe that being armed in an active shooting scene will protect them watch waaaaay too many action movies. Have you ever played close quarter paintball game? If you havent, give it a try. The very second you get surprised by an opponent, you go into fear mode and sometimes forget to even pull the trigger. Its not like "call of duty" game... more like getting surprised by a flying baseball bat coming for your face. You will flinch. The attacker wont; he wants to die.
Shooting happen when you least expect it. In Canada, most gun crimes occur in Toronto and most of the victims are bystanders. The whole event will probably be over before you even pull out your gun. For example: drive by shootings.


Personally, I couldnt live in the big city. I always worry about that one maniac that will ruin my day while I am minding my own business. Id rather in far in the mountains

BigPurpleSkiSuitYeah there's no way I'd handle a gun without training. How much did all that stuff cost in the first place?

This varies as much as "how much does your ski setup cost?" Think of wearing a Columbia jacket, North Face gloves, and buying old rentals from the shop vs buying the nicest, newest everything.

The permitting process varies from state to state, and county to county within each state. It may be fairly inexpensive to get a carry permit, or it may be several hundred dollars, many hours of time, and take several years. In general, California and East Coast states are the most difficult and most expensive.

Buying the gun (or guns) is also personal choice as to how much you spend. Figure anywhere from $250 to $1,200. Then there is the consideration of how you will be carrying it. Ankle holster? IWB? Plenty of holster options, and all cost money. Ammunition is not cheap. You will also need cleaning supplies and a responsible way to store the firearm (think gun safe).

Training can (and likely should) be individualized. Figure an hourly rate with a licensed instructor, using your firearm. Then you should absolutely join a rod & gun club to have access to a range where you can shoot frequently and stay comfortable with the usage of your firearm. If you're in a city, you will need to either join an indoor range or rent range time from them ($20/hr or so, + ammo of course).

There is a lot more to it than just purchasing a pistol. To do it right is a serious responsibility that requires time, effort, and money.

You will also need to stay current on laws as to where you are allowed to carry and where you are not allowed to carry (no post offices or government buildings for one). A pistol permit is a state permit, although parts of your state may not allow carry. Many states have reciprocity with other states. If you are dedicated enough you can acquire permits from a number of states and be able to carry most places. Utah is the most widely sought-after permit as it allows carry in 40+ states. Florida is another state that has reciprocity with many other states. Several states such as CA and NY do not offer any reciprocity, making it only legal for citizens of those states to carry in those states.

BigPurpleSkiSuitDon't go sketchy places late at night. I don't draw attention to myself by wearing luxurious items. Avoid confrontations. I live in a fairly safe area. I lock my door at night. So far I haven't been in a situation apart from being in that active shooter situation at the U of U where I really felt, I need a gun. That said, I would much rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it, especially when I have someone to protect.


Edit: Also I'm 6'5, about 190 and even though I'm not that strong for my height, it's pretty rare that somebody wants to fuck with me just because I look somewhat intimidating, so I haven't found myself being a target for any muggings or anything like that, but I think that's mainly due to my basic street smarts.

**This post was edited on Oct 28th 2018 at 11:58:01pm

6'2" inches here. 200 lbs. It's nice being bigger than everyone else but it makes me extremely uncomfortable when someone is taller than me

JAHpowAnd by standard gun safety class, I mean like a hunters safety course. You will learn a lot of valuable knowledge about both firearms and safely handling them as well as hunting safety. I think that's a way better route than one those evening gun safety classes where they just pack everyone in and you listen to an hour of them telling you not to point guns at people.

I've considered getting my cpl once I can. I have my to firearms in my apartment (locked up of course) but usually never carry them around with me. Don;t want to be that guy carrying an Ar around town because muh freedoms.

freestyler540People who believe that being armed in an active shooting scene will protect them watch waaaaay too many action movies. Have you ever played close quarter paintball game? If you havent, give it a try. The very second you get surprised by an opponent, you go into fear mode and sometimes forget to even pull the trigger. Its not like "call of duty" game... more like getting surprised by a flying baseball bat coming for your face. You will flinch. The attacker wont; he wants to die.
Shooting happen when you least expect it. In Canada, most gun crimes occur in Toronto and most of the victims are bystanders. The whole event will probably be over before you even pull out your gun. For example: drive by shootings.


Personally, I couldnt live in the big city. I always worry about that one maniac that will ruin my day while I am minding my own business. Id rather in far in the mountains

I can confirm this. When I was a highschooler I did active shooter training's with our local police force, acting as a bad guy ( can't believe that we are at a point in the U.S where we have to do this). All I had to do was hold a hostage and let the real cops shoot me (I was holding a dummy gun). The second I had multiple guns pointed at me and officers screaming at me I threw the gun away, even though I was in no real danger (wearing a full flak vest and mask. We used soap rounds).

People always think that they would react heroically in these sorts of situations. But in reality you will never know how you will act until you are put in the hot seat. That's why proper training and awareness is extremely important

That being said I'd still always rather have a firearm than not.

**This post was edited on Oct 29th 2018 at 1:37:02am

An state initiative in Washington just came up for a vote to raise the age of semiautomatic rifles from 18 to 21. There were some enhanced back ground check measures included in the bill also. In Washington, we require a background check for all sales of firearms already.

Pretty much much everyone I know that owns an assault rifle is completely irresponsible and has no business owning a gun at all, that goes double for people that are under 21- but at the end of the day if you can be drafted into war you should have full rights as a citizen. On principle I couldn’t support it.

LonelyI can confirm this. When I was a highschooler I did active shooter training's with our local police force, acting as a bad guy ( can't believe that we are at a point in the U.S where we have to do this). All I had to do was hold a hostage and let the real cops shoot me (I was holding a dummy gun). The second I had multiple guns pointed at me and officers screaming at me I threw the gun away, even though I was in no real danger (wearing a full flak vest and mask. We used soap rounds).

People always think that they would react heroically in these sorts of situations. But in reality you will never know how you will act until you are put in the hot seat. That's why proper training and awareness is extremely important

That being said I'd still always rather have a firearm than not.

**This post was edited on Oct 29th 2018 at 1:37:02am

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/912766/Video-Footage--Police-Ambushed-at-CiCi-s-Pizza-and-Walmart-Shooting

**This post was edited on Oct 29th 2018 at 2:19:51am

CLQhttps://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/912766/Video-Footage--Police-Ambushed-at-CiCi-s-Pizza-and-Walmart-Shooting

**This post was edited on Oct 29th 2018 at 2:19:51am

https://youtu.be/A804A3WAbB0

I can post videos too

I'm from the UK.
Mind blown the first time I walked into a Canadian Tyre in BC and there were a load of hunting rifles on full display on the 2nd isle, right next to the camping stoves

Theres different atmospheres depending on where you are in the USA. MN is a gun friendly state, lots of gun manufacturers set up shop here and its a big time hunting area. On the other side of the spectrum Cook county IL, (Chicago area) hates guns.
I remember when I was in TN walking into a barber shop with a friend and there were racks of rifles on the other side of the room. So I'm sitting there watching him get his hair cut while looking at guns. I ended up buying a little bb gun from that store. There were hardware stores with gun departments. This was like over 10 years ago so I wonder if that place still exists

CaseyAn state initiative in Washington just came up for a vote to raise the age of semiautomatic rifles from 18 to 21. There were some enhanced back ground check measures included in the bill also. In Washington, we require a background check for all sales of firearms already.

Pretty much much everyone I know that owns an assault rifle is completely irresponsible and has no business owning a gun at all, that goes double for people that are under 21- but at the end of the day if you can be drafted into war you should have full rights as a citizen. On principle I couldn’t support it.

No such thing as an assault rifle, just a rifle.

I like guns. Self-defense is a right, and for many Americans, nessasary. Gun laws are an infringement. The problem is that politicians, seem to favor knee-jerk reactions like bans, instead of putting in the effort to fix the many societal issues, like education, poverty and the fucking Chinese.

JoeF2661No such thing as an assault rifle, just a rifle.

Thank you for your meaningless correction.

Rum_Hamhttps://youtu.be/A804A3WAbB0

I can post videos too

Entirely not my point but ok, read who i'm responding too.

I put GIVEN THE CURRENT LAWS to avoid a giant political scrum. I should have known better

BigPurpleSkiSuitI put GIVEN THE CURRENT LAWS to avoid a giant political scrum. I should have known better

You opened Pandora's box...
Be happy this thread hasnt degenerated to the point of people called others nazis and libtards

CaseyThank you for your meaningless correction.

You're right I came off a tad bit douchey. Just saying that when people say assault rifle it demonizes the whole conversation, folks like to use words like assault rifle and semi-automatic because they sound scary. I personally don't own a gun and most likely wont but I grew up hunting and coming from hick town u.s.a. I just feel like the vast majority of gun owners are responsible and the lifestyle that comes along with hunting and recreational shooting is being put under a microscope for all the wrong reasons.

“Hi I live in the only first world country that has these tragedies on a regular basis. Everyone should be allowed to own a gun because a piece of paper written over 300 years ago says we are. Yeah so what if we have to deal with a few dead people every month.”

IFlip probably gave the most useful detailed response to this post.

Here's my two cents. May repeat some stuff, but you can never have enough repetition when it comes to firearms.

Safety first. Whatever you do OP, get training other than the standard ccw/chl training. The concealed carry course is a fucking joke. There were so many people there who didn't know the first thing about a firearm and probably never will. The range requirement was to shoot a 12x12 sheet of paper 15ft away (lol wtf). The concealed handgun course is more focused on safety rather than how to efficiently operate a firearm. Learn the laws too. Also if you or anyone in your household has contemplated suicide, it's prob best to keep guns away from them no matter how in remission they are.

Figure out where and how you're gonna store it. If you have children frequent or visit your house, please please please lock that shit up. If you're drinking, put it away. If you smoke, put it away. Don't be the guy who likes to pull out his gun and show it to everyone when they come over for a party simultaneously flagging everyone with the barrel. Loaded or unloaded, the gun is always loaded.

Join a range or know someone with land you can frequently go shoot at. Targets cost money too. You'll need ear protection too, but earplugs are cheap if you go that route. Gotta buy cleaning supplies. You'll also need to do a ton of research on the different actions (single versus double), striker versus hammer, handgun size (pay attention to weight, length, height, and width dimensions as they're important for concealed carry), caliber (9mm imo is best all around, but .40 is also common. I'd recommend against a .45 for your first handgun.) and what type of handgun would best suit your preference and carry style. How big do you want your magazine to be (and state allows) and how many do you want. Some manufacturers sell pistols with multiple mags and some only with one (so you'd have to buy more and that can be pricey). Do you want night sights or regular sights? Research the different offerings and brands. Your budget is what will determine what you buy but there's a large range of quality brands and options in the $350-750 range. If cost is an issue, check out gunbroker.com as there's usually some good new discounted ones on there. Plenty of shops around the country sell on there. Plenty of gun reviews on Google and YouTube (nutnfancy). Just don't buy a Hi-Point lol

Then of course you have to figure out what brand of ammo you want for range and then for carry purposes. That's a whole ordeal in itself as there's so many options and price differences. Tnoutdoors9 has some good ammo reviews on youtube but has been inactive for a while.

Then you gotta get a holster. I prefer IWB holsters as they're the most concealable. However if I'm at someone's land outside I'll opt for OWB for comfort and ease of access. Check out black point tactical.

If money is an issue, just invest in some Fox 5.3 (Amazon) to carry with you and stash the gun idea for a while. It's just pepper spray so you can prob have it on campus too. Unless your campus allows concealed carry like some Texas ones, having a gun really doesn't solve your original issue since you likely won't be able to access it in an emergency.

Tldr: read it lol. Guns are dangerous, expensive and require extensive research and ongoing training and upkeep.

CaseyThank you for your meaningless correction.

Using the proper terms is critical for legislative purposes so not entirely meaningless

Statistically speaking, you're more likely to get murdered just walking around the Salt Lake valley than you are while at the U.

Also, if you do end up getting a firearm as a reactionary move know this: You have a better chance of killing yourself than you do getting shot and killed by someone else.
An excerpt from the Harvard School of Public Health:
"Far more people kill themselves with a firearm each year than are murdered with one. In 2010 in the U.S., 19,392 people committed suicide with guns, compared with 11,078 who were killed by others."

Yeah that's what makes me not want one unless i have to. But i can tell you it was an awful feeling having basically no defense in that classroom with my girlfriend. Especially with the thought that there could be someone stalking the halls with a weapon with the intent to murder anyone in his path.

K-Dot.Statistically speaking, you're more likely to get murdered just walking around the Salt Lake valley than you are while at the U.

Also, if you do end up getting a firearm as a reactionary move know this: You have a better chance of killing yourself than you do getting shot and killed by someone else.
An excerpt from the Harvard School of Public Health:
"Far more people kill themselves with a firearm each year than are murdered with one. In 2010 in the U.S., 19,392 people committed suicide with guns, compared with 11,078 who were killed by others."

Oregon resident here. Took a concealed carry and firearms safety class about 4 years ago. Only recently did I actually start concealing. I stay very lowkey and hardly anybody would ever suspect it. There is a level of safety and security that is nice to have when having late night dates with my girlfriend downtown or really anywhere these days. As well as day to day at work. Life is unpredictable and it's better to have something and not need it than not have it when you need it.

JoeF2661No such thing as an assault rifle, just a rifle.

Except there is. An assault rifle is a rifle with selective fire that shoots an intermediate round and can shoot full auto (maybe I'm missing something). Unfortunately the term "assault rifle" has been used wrongly by the media for the past few years so most people just thinks it means any scary looking black rifle. Now they're using "assault-style weapon" in the media in Canada since they've been called out for being wrong too many times.

M16 = assault rifle.
AR15 = semi-automatic rifle.

They do exist, they're just illegal most places in the USA and in Canada.

Rum_HamUsing the proper terms is critical for legislative purposes so not entirely meaningless

I-1639 referrs to them as “semiautomatic assault rifles” by that I am assuming they mean any semiautomatic rifle. Whether or not the individual rifle is or was ever based on an infantry weapon is kind of irrelevant, I get that, it is the capability of the weapon that determines its classification.

The law would apply the same waiting period and background check that a person buying a handgun would have to go through. Probably not the worst idea considering how many crazy fucking people are out there, I just got hung up on the age thing.

BigPurpleSkiSuitYeah that's what makes me not want one unless i have to. But i can tell you it was an awful feeling having basically no defense in that classroom with my girlfriend. Especially with the thought that there could be someone stalking the halls with a weapon with the intent to murder anyone in his path.

I bet it was an awful experience. If you were actually in the line of fire and survived, wouldn't you feel way worse if you ended up freezing and not using your gun (if you had one) since you know you could have potentially stopped the person? Or if you did use your gun but ended up killing a civilian by accident? Since those seem to be just as likely outcomes as successfully taking the person down. Then there's all the mental issues that can arise from killing someone, even if they are a monster.

It seems like an awfully large responsibility to put on yourself for the minuscule chance of ever needing to use a gun. Just by being in the vicinity of an active shooter probably puts you in the 0.001% of the population who has been in a similar situation, let alone being in the fraction of that fraction of people who were actually close enough to a shooter to have potentially used a gun to take them down. Then how shitty would you feel if you are someone who carries who gets their gun stolen from them and it's used to kill someone? Or someone close to you is suicidal and decides their easiest option is to take your gun to off themselves? Unlikely, but so is ever getting in a gun fight, and carrying a gun makes those possibilities a whole lot higher than keeping them locked up at home and only taking them out for targets and hunting.

If you are truly worried about your safety and the safety of people around you there are other objects you could carry that would have a far greater chance of saving your life or someone else's life. You could carry epinephrine or you could keep a defibrillator in your car. Way higher chance of saving someone's life or your own with those items than a gun.

But by all means, get a few guns for targets and hunting. It's great fun.

CLQEntirely not my point but ok, read who i'm responding too.

I'm confused....

Couldn't tell if the video was supposed to disagree with my point or agreed with it.

freestyler540You opened Pandora's box...
Be happy this thread hasnt degenerated to the point of people called others nazis and libtards

This thread has been surprisingly civil so far. We'll see what clq has to say

LonelyI'm confused....

Couldn't tell if the video was supposed to disagree with my point or agreed with it.

I'm agreeing with you when you said that proper training and awareness is extremely important. You could very easily get yourself or others killed because you don't have the proper training.

CLQI'm agreeing with you when you said that proper training and awareness is extremely important. You could very easily get yourself or others killed because you don't have the proper training.

I thought you were saying that having a gun is pointless with the video you posted. My bad

Rum_HamI thought you were saying that having a gun is pointless with the video you posted. My bad

Nah its my bad for just posting a video without expanding on it.

VinnieFThey do exist, they're just illegal most places in the USA and in Canada.

I just wanted to give a further correction. Machine guns (full-auto) are legal in most states with proper permitting. 41 states allow private citizens to purchase full-auto machine guns with a Class III permit. In the other 9 states it may be possible to own full-auto, but this requires very specific and very rare circumstances (such as government research provisions).

DIRTYBUBBLE“Hi I live in the only first world country that has these tragedies on a regular basis. Everyone should be allowed to own a gun because a piece of paper written over 300 years ago says we are. Yeah so what if we have to deal with a few dead people every month.”

Your logic (lack thereof) is as bad as your math. The Bill of Rights was ratified on December 15th, 1791. I do sincerely hope it still holds up when it is over 300 years old, but we have a long time to go to get there.

MoosenThere is a level of safety and security that is nice to have when having late night dates with my girlfriend downtown

I'm not saying you shouldn't carry nor that you're drinking on these late night dates. But, for any of you, if you are drinking and become impaired enough to where you wouldn't drive, you shouldn't carry either.

On a general note, don't drink and carry, like at all. Ever.

JAHpowI'm not saying you shouldn't carry nor that you're drinking on these late night dates. But, for any of you, if you are drinking and become impaired enough to where you wouldn't drive, you shouldn't carry either.

On a general note, don't drink and carry, like at all. Ever.

In Ohio it's illegal to have any BAC and be carrying concealed, even if ok to drive. I'd bet other states are similar.

iFlipYour logic (lack thereof) is as bad as your math. The Bill of Rights was ratified on December 15th, 1791. I do sincerely hope it still holds up when it is over 300 years old, but we have a long time to go to get there.

lol my mistake. A document written over 200 years ago is totally infallible and shouldn’t be AMMENDED to account for changes in society, culture, technology, etc.

IsitWinterYet17In Ohio it's illegal to have any BAC and be carrying concealed, even if ok to drive. I'd bet other states are similar.

I'm sure other states are. I looked up oregon though, since Moosen is from there, and I didn't find anything specifically about bac and carry. I could've missed it, but it's just a good reminder.

DIRTYBUBBLElol my mistake. A document written over 200 years ago is totally infallible and shouldn’t be AMMENDED to account for changes in society, culture, technology, etc.

Let's amend the 2nd Amendment and the 22nd Amendment at the same time, since we're amending amendments. The 22nd Amendment is the one that limits the presidency to two terms. So let's let Trump stay as President forever. Heck, if we're going to pick and choose how we're going to change the core of our country, I'm sure I can come up with a few more things.

TBH a bunch of people walking around with guns for their "personal safety" makes me more nervous than the possibility of being involved in a mass shooting.

iFlipLet's amend the 2nd Amendment and the 22nd Amendment at the same time, since we're amending amendments. The 22nd Amendment is the one that limits the presidency to two terms. So let's let Trump stay as President forever. Heck, if we're going to pick and choose how we're going to change the core of our country, I'm sure I can come up with a few more things.

Nice use of the slippery slope fallacy. Please tell me why picking and choosing how we change the core of our country is a bad thing. The eighteenth amendment was repealed without a problem. The thirteenth amendment was imposed without a problem. Both actions improved society

We need more guns! Everybody should have at least 10. Also drill baby drill!

DIRTYBUBBLENice use of the slippery slope fallacy. Please tell me why picking and choosing how we change the core of our country is a bad thing. The eighteenth amendment was repealed without a problem. The thirteenth amendment was imposed without a problem. Both actions improved society

The problem is not the second amendment itself most leftists just want to repeal it for the sake of claiming some sort of moral victory like that’s going to solve anything. The courts have already ruled over and over again that restricting in regulating firearm use in sale is constitutional so I don’t understand what the point you’re trying to make is

**This post was edited on Oct 30th 2018 at 1:28:30pm

**This post was edited on Oct 30th 2018 at 1:29:35pm