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Touring advice

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ngates_EC
Posts: 1464 - Karma: 807
I'm starting to look into a touring setup. I live on the East Coast so nothing too serious. I have a pair of Blizzard Peacemakers that I was thinking about mounting with a frame binding so that I could ski it at resorts and hike with it. For people that do some touring, would that be an enjoyable set up? Is touring on a twin tip worthwhile?

Any advice is appreciated.
Nov 12 2017 7:18PM
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skierman
Posts: 8063 - Karma: 4,786
It doesn't matter if its a twin or not, just as long as its not an overly heavy shit bag. Since you're just getting into it, a binding like the Adrenalin or Guardian is a good choice as you don't need to buy touring specific boots and touring bindings are really expensive. Take an avy class if you can, learn about skin sizing and fuck you and your mom.
Nov 12 2017 7:21PM
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Casey
Posts: 7783 - Karma: 23,456
I think using your old skis and a frame binding is a good way to get into it without having to buy new everything. Just by having a touring setup you will have the capability of getting to areas that 90% of skiers at the resort can't get to. So just doing small tours and slack country is a good way to see for yourself how the weight of your set up is performing, if your boots start to drive you nuts, uphill vs downhill performance, etc.
Nov 12 2017 7:27PM
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ngates_EC
Posts: 1464 - Karma: 807
Does anybody here tour on the east coast? what is your set up?
Nov 13 2017 7:20PM
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methscratchface
Posts: 1201 - Karma: 4,433
i grew up on the east coast and did a fair amount of "touring." I suffered on long slogs with alpine trekers. It is the cheapest alternative and they are a good way to cut your teeth. Just carry a roll of duct tape and you will be fine. Checkout the new daymakers, they seem slightly better than the originals and if you really really dig it, start saving for a tech setup. skip the frame garbage in my opinion. whatever you decide on go to the fucking chic chocs in quebec! realest skiing in the east
Nov 13 2017 7:56PM
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Lokdog
Posts: 130 - Karma: 547
Try and get some used touring bindings and mount them on a pair of lighter skis, twin tip or not literally makes zero difference, most people I know tour with twin tips. Once you’ve decided which skis to use bring them to a shop and have them set you up with skins. Make sure you’ve got the essential probe, beacon, shovel, and ast 1. Without taking a course I’d recommend staying out of the backcountry, it’s hard to realize how dangerous it can get without being educated. I would also recommend reading some articles on what to bring into the backcountry, there’s a multitude of must have items such as sun protection, first aid kit, fire starter etc. I would also recommend getting some ski straps, they are super useful in case you’re skins aren’t working or binding breaks. Like I said earlier get educated so you can stay safe and start having fun in the backcountry.
Nov 13 2017 8:01PM
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Dddsz
Posts: 3042 - Karma: 7,328
I know three people with daymakers and they all love the shit out of those things. Just pre-ordered them myself. Seems like people are afraid of them because of how bad the trekkers were.
Nov 13 2017 8:34PM
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ngates_EC
Posts: 1464 - Karma: 807
methscratchfacei grew up on the east coast and did a fair amount of "touring." I suffered on long slogs with alpine trekers. It is the cheapest alternative and they are a good way to cut your teeth. Just carry a roll of duct tape and you will be fine. Checkout the new daymakers, they seem slightly better than the originals and if you really really dig it, start saving for a tech setup. skip the frame garbage in my opinion. whatever you decide on go to the fucking chic chocs in quebec! realest skiing in the east


Chic Chocs are high on the list after an avy course.
Nov 13 2017 9:09PM
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ngates_EC
Posts: 1464 - Karma: 807
RyhanI know three people with daymakers and they all love the shit out of those things. Just pre-ordered them myself. Seems like people are afraid of them because of how bad the trekkers were.



Didn't know about the daymakers until now. seems like a good idea. would be interested to hear how they work.
Nov 13 2017 9:46PM
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Zach.rolands
Posts: 22 - Karma: 20
Thats perfect even if you aren't just starting out id recommend the marker baron for the bindings
Nov 13 2017 11:34PM
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STAUSS
Posts: 8232 - Karma: 3,311
I had a frame binding for two and a half winters. Trust me when I say this: skip the bullshit and invest in real tech bindings. Getting anything from 2015 onward will be up to date and less expensive than something new. Cop a pair of radical STs or comparable. If you can shell out some money go for the King Pin. These days too, the boots are catching up. You can get a touring boot like the Atomic Hawx or Lange FreeTour that work as well as your alpine boot. If you don't go with one of those or something similar this season, you'll have to have two completely different setups but it is worth it, so fucking worth it. You're not going to want to ski that frame binding at the resort, or anywhere. Just commit.
Nov 13 2017 11:48PM
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ahshit
Posts: 1248 - Karma: 3,024
Hey put this in the AT/Back country section next time. Personally I think daymakers would be your best bet. I don't have them, but I used my friends for a day and it was great.
Nov 14 2017 12:07AM
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*DOG
Posts: 239 - Karma: 466
skiermanlearn about skin sizing and fuck you and your mom.

Hahahhah
Nov 14 2017 12:14AM
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STAUSS
Posts: 8232 - Karma: 3,311
Or, if you don't want to take my advice. I'm currently selling a pair of 165 elan powder skis with Atomic Tracker 13's for 350 bucks. Lemme know haha.
Nov 14 2017 8:39PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,291
When it comes to AT touring, there is too much choice out there.
Snowshoes: I started with this in Quebec city. Its cheap and simple. Just strap your alpine setup to your backpack and use ski boots on the snowshoes. The downside is the incredible weight that comes with that. But it does the job.

Trekkers: Dont, just dont...

AT basic set up: Any ski will do really. A 90-95 underfoot ski will do the job and will work great in east coat pow. For the binding, Marker makes the most solid AT framed binding (I sport the Baron 13). No need for tech boots or adapters and have enough rigidity for cruising groomers and hitting park. They are heavier than most setups, but its the best bang for your buck. Skins can put you back about 140$, but most come precut so you dont have to mess it up trying to do it yourself. Dont forget collapsible poles!

Tech AT: This is when weight is an issue. For long hikes (4hrs or more) you will same a lot of energy and travel faster. A decent pair of tech bindings go for 400$ minimum. They are just as good as framed AT bindings, but the technology is still changing. The downside is not all come with brakes, so riding them inbounds is prohibited. The next problem is icing around the pins. Then you have to buy the boots that are tech. Some boot models are convertible, but most arent. So trying out your buddies skis will be out of the question.

Riding on twins makes absolutely no difference in the overall feel of the ski. Early rise cambers do a fair job.

Overall, weight and price is gonna determine what you wanna buy when you are getting into the sport.
Nov 14 2017 8:50PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51260 - Karma: 157,382
https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/203/A-T--and-Backcountry

Check out this forum
Nov 14 2017 9:15PM
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skistupid
Posts: 303 - Karma: 1,186
OMG! Stop with the get 'educated' bullshit.
Nov 15 2017 10:19AM
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Lokdog
Posts: 130 - Karma: 547
D.B.OMG! Stop with the get 'educated' bullshit.


Get educated or get inbounds, nobody gives a fuck what gear you have if you don’t know how to use it.
Nov 15 2017 6:03PM
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ngates_EC
Posts: 1464 - Karma: 807
LokdogGet educated or get inbounds, nobody gives a fuck what gear you have if you don’t know how to use it.


Not ignorant, just wondering what options are out there as I start to learn.
Nov 15 2017 10:13PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8625 - Karma: 32,399
D.B.OMG! Stop with the get 'educated' bullshit.


Absolutely not.
Nov 15 2017 10:18PM
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Lokdog
Posts: 130 - Karma: 547
ngates_ECNot ignorant, just wondering what options are out there as I start to learn.


Sorry if i came off to harsh, your peacemakers should make a dope touring ski as long as you aren't planning on doing multiple summits a day. I use Atomic Automatics which are very much on the heavier side, very rockered, and twin-tipped, that being said they are still dope since what really matters is how well they shralp the pow, not how hard they are to lug up to the top. As long as you aren't using race or park skis you're probably good.
Nov 15 2017 10:21PM
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brett_fisher
Posts: 2417 - Karma: 10,493
touring on the east coast = cross country
Nov 15 2017 10:41PM
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doobtoob
Posts: 1 - Karma: 14
I have the new Daymakers, can attest that they are sweet! Its awesome to be able to tour on all my skis.
Nov 16 2017 1:23AM
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skistupid
Posts: 303 - Karma: 1,186
LokdogGet educated or get inbounds, nobody gives a fuck what gear you have if you don’t know how to use it.

Quoi que!
Nov 17 2017 6:29PM
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Cheech_Sander
Posts: 338 - Karma: 1,660
I grew up skiing all over the east coast and honestly most "tours" are easily handled in boots.
I've done 23 miles and 6,000' of vert in heavy ass dukes in the Sierras and while it definitely was not ideal, it wasn't THAT bad. I wouldn't worry about heavy or shitty setups for back east. You'll be going a couple miles and like maybe 1k vert most days.
Nov 17 2017 10:54PM
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huckndprey
Posts: 23 - Karma: 146
ngates_ECChic Chocs are high on the list after an avy course.


I went to the chic chocs recently without an avy course and survived. Just make sure you have a smart group of friends with you and don't do anything too extreme. Murdochville, Mt Lyall, and Champs De Mars are really good entry level touring that don.t pose that much risk for avalanches.
Mar 27 2018 10:04PM
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Alvaro
Posts: 323 - Karma: 2,066
highly unpopular opinion here, you shouldn't be asking for someone to get an avy course if they are not for free, a huge part of ski touring is about spending as little money as possible. If you are not that experienced in the backcountry just look up a ton of free online avy info, train to rescue and assess snow with friends, never expose yourself to evident avalanche risks and go gradually gaining experience.
Mar 27 2018 10:32PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8625 - Karma: 32,399
Alvarohighly unpopular opinion here, you shouldn't be asking for someone to get an avy course if they are not for free, a huge part of ski touring is about spending as little money as possible. If you are not that experienced in the backcountry just look up a ton of free online avy info, train to rescue and assess snow with friends, never expose yourself to evident avalanche risks and go gradually gaining experience.

This is fucking terrible advice
Mar 28 2018 2:04AM
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jellomellow
Posts: 961 - Karma: 3,562
Alvarohighly unpopular opinion here, you shouldn't be asking for someone to get an avy course if they are not for free, a huge part of ski touring is about spending as little money as possible. If you are not that experienced in the backcountry just look up a ton of free online avy info, train to rescue and assess snow with friends, never expose yourself to evident avalanche risks and go gradually gaining experience.


ha your an idiot and your gonna get yourself killed
Mar 28 2018 3:17PM
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Alvaro
Posts: 323 - Karma: 2,066
jellomellowha your an idiot and your gonna get yourself killed


some solid arguments there! ive spend all my life in the backcountry, learned a lot from different mentors for free and when i took an avy course they had nothing new to say. So typical to see people with a bunch of expensive courses and little experience taking way bigger risks than they should.
Mar 28 2018 3:30PM
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Casey
Posts: 7783 - Karma: 23,456
I think the point of the course is to get you in the habit of listening to people that know what they are talking about.
Mar 28 2018 3:37PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,291
CaseyI think the point of the course is to get you in the habit of listening to people that know what they are talking about


There are many reasons to take the AST1 course.
- Sets a standard of knowledge of risks and skills
- Scares reality back into you and makes you appreciate the backcountry much more
- Gives you awareness of most risks involved in back country travel
- Certified instruction so you get the facts from professionals in the field
- Experiences are shared from instructor to student, but also student to student
- A pre requisite to further studies.

As a local amateur guide to my region, I have to make sure they are aware of the risks, but also a standard language with the people Im taking with. Im not just worried about my friends, but people moving above me and below me are always in my mind. Its not me that going to kill myself in avalanches, but my buddy or people above me or below me that have no idea that they are doing that might kill me, or involve me in their death.

Ive seen this much shit this year in the Western Kootenays. Too many incidents this year caused by the lowest common denominators from the metropole. In 2013, there was 1 incident per 2 weeks of so. This year, I averaged 4 per DAY!(Avalanche Canada) Nelson search and rescue had a hard year.
Mar 29 2018 12:47PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
Alvarohighly unpopular opinion here, you shouldn't be asking for someone to get an avy course if they are not for free, a huge part of ski touring is about spending as little money as possible. If you are not that experienced in the backcountry just look up a ton of free online avy info, train to rescue and assess snow with friends, never expose yourself to evident avalanche risks and go gradually gaining experience.


Hahaha.

In Canada, Avalanche Canada is a non profit, donation based company. Meaning that they are broke as shit and have to cover a massive area for accurate avalanche forecasting. If avalanche courses were to be free, they wouldn't be able to afford to keep running, leaving the public with no avalanche forecasting.

Backcountry isn't just for cheap dirtbags that don't want to pay for a seasons pass. If a huge part of ski touring is to spend as little money as possible, why is every single piece of equipment so expensive? Most touring zones are typically not as close to town as the local ski hill, so you gotta drive further and therefor spend more on gas (and having an insured vehicle is very much a necessity - no free shuttle up to the trailhead). On top of that, most adults who tour - at least in BC - all have snowmobiles to access the goods. On top of that, the way you layer and what layers you need are drastically more elaborate and way more expensive to spend substantial time in the backcountry as opposed to hot lapping the ski hill within view of the day lodge the whole time.

As someone who almost exclusively spends his time in the backcountry I can honestly say that it would be WAY, WAY cheaper if I just had an alpine set up, bought a seasons pass, and stayed within the ropes all winter.


If you want to ski on the cheap, just get some old skis from the thrift store and become a urban jibber. Backcountry is no place for skimping.
Mar 29 2018 1:06PM
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Alvaro
Posts: 323 - Karma: 2,066
DrailHahaha.

In Canada, Avalanche Canada is a non profit, donation based company. Meaning that they are broke as shit and have to cover a massive area for accurate avalanche forecasting. If avalanche courses were to be free, they wouldn't be able to afford to keep running, leaving the public with no avalanche forecasting.

Backcountry isn't just for cheap dirtbags that don't want to pay for a seasons pass. If a huge part of ski touring is to spend as little money as possible, why is every single piece of equipment so expensive? Most touring zones are typically not as close to town as the local ski hill, so you gotta drive further and therefor spend more on gas (and having an insured vehicle is very much a necessity - no free shuttle up to the trailhead). On top of that, most adults who tour - at least in BC - all have snowmobiles to access the goods. On top of that, the way you layer and what layers you need are drastically more elaborate and way more expensive to spend substantial time in the backcountry as opposed to hot lapping the ski hill within view of the day lodge the whole time.

As someone who almost exclusively spends his time in the backcountry I can honestly say that it would be WAY, WAY cheaper if I just had an alpine set up, bought a seasons pass, and stayed within the ropes all winter.


If you want to ski on the cheap, just get some old skis from the thrift store and become a urban jibber. Backcountry is no place for skimping.

maybe in canada touring is only for rich fuckers, here in south america most places dont even have ski resorts or forecasting and there are lots of people who cant afford them and just go touring with the most basic second hand stuff
Mar 29 2018 1:14PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
Alvaromaybe in canada touring is only for rich fuckers, here in south america most places dont even have ski resorts or forecasting and there are lots of people who cant afford them and just go touring with the most basic second hand stuff


Fair enough. I’d imagine things are drastically different in all the various regions of the world. No avalanche forecasting sounds so crazy to me. If anything that would promote me to get even more avalanche training due to the fact that you are truly on your own out there for decision making.
Mar 29 2018 1:23PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
DrailFair enough. I’d imagine things are drastically different in all the various regions of the world. No avalanche forecasting sounds so crazy to me. If anything that would promote me to get even more avalanche training due to the fact that you are truly on your own out there for decision making.


And to add on to your point. If there is no avalanche forecasting, where does the money from avalanche courses go? I would be suspect of costs too if I didn’t see anything back in terms of resources.
Mar 29 2018 1:29PM
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Alvaro
Posts: 323 - Karma: 2,066
DrailAnd to add on to your point. If there is no avalanche forecasting, where does the money from avalanche courses go? I would be suspect of costs too if I didn’t see anything back in terms of resources.

some brands like northface and ski resorts bring certificated guys to make the courses, mainly for making a couple more bucks or for publicity i guess.
Mar 29 2018 1:34PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
In my resort they do free avi courses a few times during the season. They even provide the gear for anyone who doesn't have it yet.
Mar 29 2018 1:50PM
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