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I've been seeing a lot of ads on YouTube that are tying to get Trump impeached. If you support this, on what reasons? Try to have a nice debate in the comments, NS.
D87He gave you healthcare, a growing economy, low unemployment, lgbt equality, environmental protection and worldwide praise. As a European, under Obama the USA was the worlds leader in human rights, democracy, climate change and business ecumen.
Ahh no he didn't give us healthcare. My neighbor's premiums went up to like $2,000 per month. That's not healthcare, that's an income distribution and completely insane
milk_manAhh no he didn't give us healthcare. My neighbor's premiums went up to like $2,000 per month. That's not healthcare, that's an income distribution and completely insane
Obama did give you healthcare.
What plan did your Neighbor take out? The healthy people pay for the sick people to some degree. I would agree that $2,000 is scandalous but I don't know his background or income either. Is he paying premium cost now so he can pay a minimum amount later on? etc
Obama did the best he could for the majority of Americans, he also said if you come to me with a better plan I will sign it.
The ACA needs to be fixed and fine-tuned but Obama is the first and only president to tackle healthcare in a meaningful way. It will never go back to the way it was.
What plan did your Neighbor take out? The healthy people pay for the sick people to some degree. I would agree that $2,000 is scandalous but I don't know his background or income either. Is he paying premium cost now so he can pay a minimum amount later on? etc
Obama did the best he could for the majority of Americans, he also said if you come to me with a better plan I will sign it.
The ACA needs to be fixed and fine-tuned but Obama is the first and only president to tackle healthcare in a meaningful way. It will never go back to the way it was.
I personally think single payer is the way to go.
You should research how much people's premiums went up because of it. It caused major hardship for tons of people, and maybe they even gave up their plans for bad plans or decided to not have insurance at all. This $2000/month premium was not an anomaly by any means. This was extremely common. Obamacare only helped one specific group of people. The democrats have been helping specifics groups for years to buy votes. Anywayyy...
milk_manYou should research how much people's premiums went up because of it. It caused major hardship for tons of people, and maybe they even gave up their plans for bad plans or decided to not have insurance at all. This $2000/month premium was not an anomaly by any means. This was extremely common. Obamacare only helped one specific group of people. The democrats have been helping specifics groups for years to buy votes. Anywayyy...
Dear God...'specific groups'. The ACA was structured in a way that people with pre-conditions could get coverage too. That is why the mandate is there. I agree that for some, premiums are too high. Some parts of the ACA need to be fixed or changed altogether so that premiums are cheaper for everyone. Example, Hospitals need to be able to negotiate with pharmaceuticals to get cheaper drugs, i.e Saline made for $1 should not be sold to a hospital for $100 and the patient then charged $150. That is insane. You should also be allowed to buy plans across state lines.
On the issue of rising premiums, your current president is on record as saying he wants the ACA to implode. He has stopped paying subsidies to states that need it to keep costs low. If your premium goes up now by 20% to 25%, that is the direct cause. It is cheaper to pay the subsidies than to not. Look it up. By not paying the subsidies, 200 billion will be added to the deficit between the next 4 to 8 years. 200 billions that citizens will have to pay out of their wages.
D87Dear God...'specific groups'. The ACA was structured in a way that people with pre-conditions could get coverage too. That is why the mandate is there. I agree that for some, premiums are too high. Some parts of the ACA need to be fixed or changed altogether so that premiums are cheaper for everyone. Example, Hospitals need to be able to negotiate with pharmaceuticals to get cheaper drugs, i.e Saline made for $1 should not be sold to a hospital for $100 and the patient then charged $150. That is insane. You should also be allowed to buy plans across state lines.
On the issue of rising premiums, your current president is on record as saying he wants the ACA to implode. He has stopped paying subsidies to states that need it to keep costs low. If your premium goes up now by 20% to 25%, that is the direct cause. It is cheaper to pay the subsidies than to not. Look it up. By not paying the subsidies, 200 billion will be added to the deficit between the next 4 to 8 years. 200 billions that citizens will have to pay out of their wages.
We don't need more regulation to get better service. More regulation can mean better service, but always at a higher price (for someone).
What you're saying about pharmaceuticals is 100% true. & deregulation could change that market completely.. More regulation may help, but at a huge cost (to someone).
The ACA is 20,000 pages of regulations. Twenty thousand pages. That does not make healthcare cheaper
milk_manWe don't need more regulation to get better service. More regulation can mean better service, but always at a higher price (for someone).
What you're saying about pharmaceuticals is 100% true. & deregulation could change that market completely.. More regulation may help, but at a huge cost (to someone).
The ACA is 20,000 pages of regulations. Twenty thousand pages. That does not make healthcare cheaper
Okay, I absolutely get what you say about regulations... There is a fine balance and regulations should not be the first thing you look to when trying to solve a problem.
Look up Obamas spilt milk speech on YouTube, in his first year he got people to look at regulations and see what ones could be scrapped. They saved 10 billion by getting rid of the red tape.
In regards to the pharmaceutical companies, there will be a reduction in profits for shareholders if hospitals can negotiate prices. Personally, I am completely 100% ok with that. The companies make billions off of sick people. The shareholders are already multi-multi-millionaires. I don't care if they lose 20% if that money can be better spent elsewhere, i.e on reducing that $2,000 monthly premium.
In regards to the 20,000 pages, that's a shit load of regulations but look at the amount of time and energy that went into the ACA. It wasn't something that was thrown together. It was meticulously planned. Is it perfect, no. Does it need fixing, yes
D87In regards to the pharmaceutical companies, there will be a reduction in profits for shareholders if hospitals can negotiate prices. Personally, I am completely 100% ok with that. The companies make billions off of sick people. The shareholders are already multi-multi-millionaires. I don't care if they lose 20% if that money can be better spent elsewhere, i.e on reducing that $2,000 monthly premium.
I'm kind of confused when you say the shareholders are already multi-millionaires... You know who the shareholders of these corporations are, right?
But that's not quite how the market works.. The hospitals don't not negotiate prices (I don't know if they do or don't) because the shareholders need to make a profit, it's because it's not a free market industry. You're not from America, but are you familiar with college textbook pricing? Kind of the same situation. Price gouging because they can. Open up the market and let it takes its course. If they allowed health insurance to cross state lines instead of forcing people to purchase insurance within their state that would be a huge step to lowering the price and raising the quality of healthcare
I do agree that there should be gov't subsidies for people with pre existing conditions. But there's some problems that have to be fixed before that can be done effectively
milk_manI'm kind of confused when you say the shareholders are already multi-millionaires... You know who the shareholders of these corporations are, right?
But that's not quite how the market works.. The hospitals don't not negotiate prices (I don't know if they do or don't) because the shareholders need to make a profit, it's because it's not a free market industry. You're not from America, but are you familiar with college textbook pricing? Kind of the same situation. Price gouging because they can. Open up the market and let it takes its course. If they allowed health insurance to cross state lines instead of forcing people to purchase insurance within their state that would be a huge step to lowering the price and raising the quality of healthcare
I do agree that there should be gov't subsidies for people with pre existing conditions. But there's some problems that have to be fixed before that can be done effectively
A friend of mine works at Elli Lilly and I know that instead of cash bonuses they can invest in shares, obviously she isn't a millionaire but there's definitely millionaire shareholders attached to the company. I need to look into that more.
College book prices are a farce. I think we agree mostly on what can be done. Opening up the market and introducing price regulations if needed would help reduce the cost of healthcare massively. Maybe while a drug is under patent, price regulations could be attached which is fare to the company and to the hospital/patient and once the patent is finished the regulations stop and free market prices take over as other companies make that drug and offer competition.
D87A friend of mine works at Elli Lilly and I know that instead of cash bonuses they can invest in shares, obviously she isn't a millionaire but there's definitely millionaire shareholders attached to the company. I need to look into that more.
College book prices are a farce. I think we agree mostly on what can be done. Opening up the market and introducing price regulations if needed would help reduce the cost of healthcare massively. Maybe while a drug is under patent, price regulations could be attached which is fare to the company and to the hospital/patient and once the patent is finished the regulations stop and free market prices take over as other companies make that drug and offer competition.
Now the politicians need to start getting their act together.
I can't wait until this liberal/alt right fake news shit is all over. It's such a distraction and so exhausting. Most people can come to an agreement when they sit down, look at the facts and take in what each other are saying. When outside forces are involved, especially money, nothing is done. If I had it my way, no politician could take money from any private citizen, company or religious group. Stick to the facts, find a solution.
Now the politicians need to start getting their act together.
I can't wait until this liberal/alt right fake news shit is all over. It's such a distraction and so exhausting. Most people can come to an agreement when they sit down, look at the facts and take in what each other are saying. When outside forces are involved, especially money, nothing is done. If I had it my way, no politician could take money from any private citizen, company or religious group. Stick to the facts, find a solution.
Seriously. One of the biggest shocks of my adult life was realizing it is perfectly legal to bribe politicians to vote how you want. You would honestly think that in and of itself would be so outrageous to the average voter that it would be illegal. Instead our reaction is to just throw an equal or greater amount of money in the opposite direction to counter lobby. Uhh guys we can have gridlock for free you know!
milk_manYou should research how much people's premiums went up because of it. It caused major hardship for tons of people, and maybe they even gave up their plans for bad plans or decided to not have insurance at all. This $2000/month premium was not an anomaly by any means. This was extremely common. Obamacare only helped one specific group of people. The democrats have been helping specifics groups for years to buy votes. Anywayyy...
First of I'd like to see you back up the claim that people having a 2000$ increase was extremely common. That would in fact mean that the majority of people would have a 2000$ increase which from what I've seen is unlikely. Unless you for a very specific demographic, which is not the majority.
I had a conversation with my one of my co-workers about this. She has a lot of shitty and expensive medical conditions, which resulted in her being in the hospital a lot. As just a manager at a small business she could not pay the roughly $85,000 in hospitial bills she had. Luckily she was covered by insurance and because of her lower income it was less expensive, allowing her to manage. It goes without saying that she was a big fan of Obama care.
Her parents are business owners, and make quite a lot of money. They do not like Obama care because they had a $500 increase, but they came to the realization that it allowed their daughter to live, they changed their minds.
I'm not an expert on healthcare and policy, but I don't think Obama had the intentions to screw any specific group over.
I feel like in principal this goes back to where we are as a society. Like free college. I'm against it because our country could not support that type of economic investment at the moment. But it grinds my gears when people say they don't want anyone to have free college because THEY had to pay for college so it's not fair. What ever happened to attempting to better future generations. This ideology runs rampant in the United States. We haven't made any big changes to combat climate change cuz where not gonna be around when the world falls apart. Or apparently sick people shouldn't have healthcare paid for because joe schmoe already pays for his own and doesn't want to have to pay another 200$. This is what's gonna cuz the downfall of western civilization, not Isis or the middle east. But we love handing over extra dollars so we can have a ridiculously over powered and overbearing military.
Idk tho.
/rant
LonelyFirst of I'd like to see you back up the claim that people having a 2000$ increase was extremely common. That would in fact mean that the majority of people would have a 2000$ increase which from what I've seen is unlikely. Unless you for a very specific demographic, which is not the majority.
I had a conversation with my one of my co-workers about this. She has a lot of shitty and expensive medical conditions, which resulted in her being in the hospital a lot. As just a manager at a small business she could not pay the roughly $85,000 in hospitial bills she had. Luckily she was covered by insurance and because of her lower income it was less expensive, allowing her to manage. It goes without saying that she was a big fan of Obama care.
Her parents are business owners, and make quite a lot of money. They do not like Obama care because they had a $500 increase, but they came to the realization that it allowed their daughter to live, they changed their minds.
I'm not an expert on healthcare and policy, but I don't think Obama had the intentions to screw any specific group over.
I feel like in principal this goes back to where we are as a society. Like free college. I'm against it because our country could not support that type of economic investment at the moment. But it grinds my gears when people say they don't want anyone to have free college because THEY had to pay for college so it's not fair. What ever happened to attempting to better future generations. This ideology runs rampant in the United States. We haven't made any big changes to combat climate change cuz where not gonna be around when the world falls apart. Or apparently sick people shouldn't have healthcare paid for because joe schmoe already pays for his own and doesn't want to have to pay another 200$. This is what's gonna cuz the downfall of western civilization, not Isis or the middle east. But we love handing over extra dollars so we can have a ridiculously over powered and overbearing military.
Idk tho.
/rant
"Nationally, about 20 million people buy their own health insurance policies. Roughly half receive subsidies through the ACA marketplaces, and are cushioned, but the rest will face the brunt of increases. In the latter group are many early retirees, self-employed professionals and small business owners — a traditional Republican constituency." 10 million people will actually see increases again, for a 5th (6th?) Year in a row. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/amp/obamacare-premiums-are-going-whose-fault-it-n761506
My premiums didn't go up at all. Probably because I had decent coverage to begin with. That's the main problem I have with people that make this argument. That guy's premiums probably went way up because for the first time in his life he had to buy adequate coverage. Prior to that he was a medical bankruptcy waiting to happen and a liability to the taxpayers.
milk_manWe don't need more regulation to get better service. More regulation can mean better service, but always at a higher price (for someone).
What you're saying about pharmaceuticals is 100% true. & deregulation could change that market completely.. More regulation may help, but at a huge cost (to someone).
The ACA is 20,000 pages of regulations. Twenty thousand pages. That does not make healthcare cheaper
Deregulation in the pharmaceutical industry (at least on the FDA side of things) would be disastrous.
Seriously. You've got no idea what kind of shit holes the generic manufacturing facilities are over in India and China.
And you cannot make it easier for drugs to come to market. Drugs can sometimes reach Phase III before the serious longer term side effects come to be known.
Also, the barriers to opening up state lines to insurance lie more on the financial and networking side of things.
Just because you open up the market doesn't mean companies will want to offer plans in a different state if the cost of doing so is higher than their potential revenue. Insurance companies need to set up relationships with doctors and hospitals and that takes time and a lot of money. A network in Iowa isn't going to have a lot of contacts in New Hampshire and vice versa. It isn't cost-effective for them.
Don't believe me? Here is a study from 2012 that studied the sale of private insurance across state lines in states that allowed them to do so. Not a single company wanted to do it.
It's telling when the biggest insurance lobbyists aren't screaming for such a plan, even when they could potentially congregate to states where the regulations are most lenient and would allow them to maximize revenue through weakening policy coverage.
This is not to say the ACA is without any flaws because it isn't. There are a ton. But don't forget how much it was gutted before it came to be passed.
I dont think he will get impeached, but most likely nor re-elected, once people realize he is not the god people think he is. I think he is doing okay, but all of his brave war talk on twitter is bullshit, you aren't a bad-ass if your tweets may cost soldiers their lives. It would be cool to see an independent party win for once
JoeC92I dont think he will get impeached, but most likely nor re-elected, once people realize he is not the god people think he is. I think he is doing okay, but all of his brave war talk on twitter is bullshit, you aren't a bad-ass if your tweets may cost soldiers their lives. It would be cool to see an independent party win for once
milk_manHis tweets have cost soldiers their lives?
Let me rephrase,
what im saying is that all of his unnecessarily agressive tweets arent actually backed up by Trump himself, its going to be the soldiers who bear the brunt of the consequences of his actions.
JoeC92Let me rephrase,
what im saying is that all of his unnecessarily agressive tweets arent actually backed up by Trump himself, its going to be the soldiers who bear the brunt of the consequences of his actions.
So an unstated implication is that a tweet can actually start a war?
"Nationally, about 20 million people buy their own health insurance policies. Roughly half receive subsidies through the ACA marketplaces, and are cushioned, but the rest will face the brunt of increases. In the latter group are many early retirees, self-employed professionals and small business owners — a traditional Republican constituency." 10 million people will actually see increases again, for a 5th (6th?) Year in a row. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/amp/obamacare-premiums-are-going-whose-fault-it-n761506
Okay. Show us a graph that shows forecasted increase in premiums if the ACA hadn't passed.
CaseyMy premiums didn't go up at all. Probably because I had decent coverage to begin with. That's the main problem I have with people that make this argument. That guy's premiums probably went way up because for the first time in his life he had to buy adequate coverage. Prior to that he was a medical bankruptcy waiting to happen and a liability to the taxpayers.
This is a very huge issue. Over 62% of filed bankruptcies were directly due to medical costs. That no longer happens. That is absolutely massive. Sorry you pay a slight bit more, but would you rather go broke?
The ACA has done amazing things and made huge strides for the healthcare of this nation. 20 + million people are now insured. There is no cap. The 10 requirements forced insurance to actually cover important shit. That's not to say it doesn't have it's downsides to though.
The biggest issue in American healthcare is administrative costs and the lack of preventative care. Americans believe they can be fixed in a jif instead of taking (free) measures to be healthy.
80-95% of doctors visits are for primary care concerns..... but only around 30 percent of US doctors are primary care physicians......massive overspending.
And there is the short version of my healthcare rant. Probably doesn't make mich sense hahaha
"Nationally, about 20 million people buy their own health insurance policies. Roughly half receive subsidies through the ACA marketplaces, and are cushioned, but the rest will face the brunt of increases. In the latter group are many early retirees, self-employed professionals and small business owners — a traditional Republican constituency." 10 million people will actually see increases again, for a 5th (6th?) Year in a row. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/amp/obamacare-premiums-are-going-whose-fault-it-n761506
Okay. Show us a graph that shows forecasted increase in premiums if the ACA hadn't passed.
CaseyMy premiums didn't go up at all. Probably because I had decent coverage to begin with. That's the main problem I have with people that make this argument. That guy's premiums probably went way up because for the first time in his life he had to buy adequate coverage. Prior to that he was a medical bankruptcy waiting to happen and a liability to the taxpayers.
This is a very huge issue. Over 62% of filed bankruptcies were directly due to medical costs. That no longer happens. That is absolutely massive. Sorry you pay a slight bit more, but would you rather go broke?
The ACA has done amazing things and made huge strides for the healthcare of this nation. 20 + million people are now insured. There is no cap. The 10 requirements forced insurance to actually cover important shit. That's not to say it doesn't have it's downsides to though.
The biggest issue in American healthcare is administrative costs and the lack of preventative care. Americans believe they can be fixed in a jif instead of taking (free) measures to be healthy.
80-95% of doctors visits are for primary care concerns..... but only around 30 percent of US doctors are primary care physicians......massive overspending.
And there is the short version of my healthcare rant. Probably doesn't make mich sense hahaha
Profahoben_212Okay. Show us a graph that shows forecasted increase in premiums if the ACA hadn't passed.
Was there something else in 2013 that would've caused premiums to rise? Look at the average change from the years before 2013 and decide for yourself if the massive jump isn't from ACA.. Lol
milk_manWas there something else in 2013 that would've caused premiums to rise? Look at the average change from the years before 2013 and decide for yourself if the massive jump isn't from ACA.. Lol
I have looked at it. Healthcare has been absolutely skyrocketing since the 70s. You can't compare 3 years out of that. Do you happen to have any numbers supporting that the change is solely due to ACA. I don't doubt you....just curious. Because healthcare costs are and have been on a mission to mars. There was and is no clear way to stop it.
Our healthcare spending is 17 or 18 percent of our GDP. That is absolutely fucking insane....whatevs.
I'm taking an exam in healthcare policy in like 20 minutes and I'm kinda using this as a review lolol
milk_manWas there something else in 2013 that would've caused premiums to rise? Look at the average change from the years before 2013 and decide for yourself if the massive jump isn't from ACA.. Lol
That's not to say there aren't people who are getting screwed by premiums, because there are. These are the people who do not have health insurance through work, the ones who purchase individual plans.
That's not to say there aren't people who are getting screwed by premiums, because there are. These are the people who do not have health insurance through work, the ones who purchase individual plans.
What's your point? I didn't say it affects everyone. Wasn't my figure average numbers across the board? Your numbers are specific groups. Actually, my family is in the numbers you give. My dad has an employer plan that's insanely good and we didn't bear the brunt of any increases.
Also, of course ACA premiums aren't gonna go up. They're subsidized, and they had an incentive for those plans to not go up.
ACA exchange coverage and covered workers with family coverage generally won't see major increases..
milk_manWhat's your point? I didn't say it affects everyone. Wasn't my figure average numbers across the board? Your numbers are specific groups. Actually, my family is in the numbers you give. My dad has an employer plan that's insanely good and we didn't bear the brunt of any increases.
Also, of course ACA premiums aren't gonna go up. They're subsidized, and they had an incentive for those plans to not go up.
ACA exchange coverage and covered workers with family coverage generally won't see major increases..
Wait, so you're complaining about ACA premiums going up, then mention how they're subsidized....
That study you listed, since it's from Trump's HHS, neglected to include the subsidized figures in their calculations. It even says so in a footnote.
That's disingenuous. That whole study is a crock of shit.
Here's why:
-They only used 39 states, they didn't include state-based exchanges (California, NY, etc).
-They only used on-exchange enrollees, not off-exchange enrollees. This further distorts the number.
Not to mention that obviously premiums pre-ACA are going to be lower, insurers were allowed to tell people to go fuck themselves, they're not going to cover them. That means the insurance companies aren't taking on high-risk enrollees which helps keeps premiums lower.
Include the subsidized figures, and you're going to see a massively different reality.
^ nope, I was never talking about ACA premiums going up. Literally exactly the opposite. I'm talking about the people who were trying to "keep their plan" like they said they would be able to, because they didn't want to trade their good and affordable for crappy plans that cost the same or more..... ACA plans.
Not to mention that obviously premiums pre-ACA are going to be lower, insurers were allowed to tell people to go fuck themselves, they're not going to cover them. That means the insurance companies aren't taking on high-risk enrollees which helps keeps premiums lower.
Include the subsidized figures, and you're going to see a massively different reality.
Thank you. I didn't have time to look into that right then and you summed it up very well. Its a crock of shit.
