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Is it just me, or are the majority of double blacks at resorts way overrated for their level of difficulty. I'll see intermediate skiers dropping into a double black and have no trouble at all. Now that's not a double black diamond. What are your thoughts on this?
It depends, because Vail's version of a double black diamond is nothing, while A-basin's double is literally a 25 foot cliff into moguls in the trees. It varies between state and resort.
r u crazy OP!?!!?!!? don't go down the black diamond runs, especially if there r no ski patrol around, u could get srsly hurt ! they r not over r8ed they are the most advance run on the mtn. you should only ski them if you are good like tom waallish or if ski patrol is near
I've been told by a number of older skiers that there has been trail rating inflation over the past three or four decades, even at mountains with legitimate terrain.
But I daresay the biggest game changer has been the advancement of ski equipment. Not a lot of gapers were skiing KT22 on 210 straight skis in 1980. Now everyone has a multi-piece quiver with shaped, rockered, 120 underfoot pow sticks that make getting into gnarly terrain a lot easier.
SconnieOf course the snobby old retired skiers would say shit like that.
But what do I know? I'm just an uneducated, ignorant, millennial pig that doesn't work hard enough to pay for my education... I'm salty.
Haha I don't disagree.
I mean, ratings only really matter for green and blue runs. They exist so beginner skiers don't get in over their heads and decide that skiing isn't for them. Anything in the "black" range could mean an icy midwest groomer to a completely serious no-fall zone. And once a skier gets past that intermediate stage, they've [hopefully] learned to ask the right questions, ski with the right people, and judge a line from the top. And sooner or later, everyone ends up hiking out of a line that doesn't work out, but that's just part of the sport.
.lenconr u crazy OP!?!!?!!? don't go down the black diamond runs, especially if there r no ski patrol around, u could get srsly hurt ! they r not over r8ed they are the most advance run on the mtn. you should only ski them if you are good like tom waallish or if ski patrol is near
I started this thread cuz double blacks are supposed to be the most difficult, but from an expert skier's point of view, I don't think they're very challenging.
LyricsylvanI started this thread cuz double blacks are supposed to be the most difficult, but from an expert skier's point of view, I don't think they're very challenging.
well obviously if you're an "expert" there won't be much inbound terrain anywhere to really challenge you. that's why it's called expert.
and no one cares about your claimed skill levels. this is a skiing forum. most of us ski pretty hard too. and you just wasted an entire thread just to talk about how good of a skier you are.
I meet a drunk hippie at the bar once who was telling me about the time he skied the elusive and secret "Triple Black Diamond" turns out it was just a frozen creek bed.
I've been able to ski all the blacks and double blacks at my resort in southwest PA since I was like 8 but I went up to Vermont this year and that shit was actually challenging lol. I think it was the first time I've been out of breath skiing normal lines.
lgwardwell obviously if you're an "expert" there won't be much inbound terrain anywhere to really challenge you. that's why it's called expert.
and no one cares about your claimed skill levels. this is a skiing forum. most of us ski pretty hard too. and you just wasted an entire thread just to talk about how good of a skier you are.
Yeah basically this.
You know who concerns themselves with trail ratings? Gapers. They like to brag about "skiing blacks" in the bar. No real skiers pay any attention to that shit.
It's not like trail ratings are standardized from ski area to ski area, so really they mean nothing. The only value they have is within the specific ski area in order to differentiate the terrain at the mountain. There aren't objective measurables that ski areas follow when designating difficulty (there are some loose criteria, but waaaaaay loose), so a black diamond at one area might a be a double black elsewhere, or even a blue somewhere else.
Trail ratings have been inflated, and it's no secret why. The biggest reason is litigation. Better for a ski area to overstate the risks and difficulty of terrain in case someone tries to claim they weren't informed of the danger prior.
And the second reason is because they want to make guests happy. For non-skiers what difficulty trail you are able to ski goes a long way in framing the experience after the fact. People like to be able to say stuff like, "I've only skied 4 times and I made it down a double black!!!". It's about making customers happy, and covering their asses, that's all.
If you're such an expert, why do you seem so clueless?
Lastly, terrain is as difficult as you make it. You can find an easy route down almost anything in bounds. But someone else could take the same terrain and make it much more difficult by maybe sending it off the cornice, or picking the tightest pocket of trees, linking bump turns and gapping moguls instead of traversing back and forth, or teeing up a large roller gap that most people would've just skied over, etc.
If you're not feeling challenged, you're either not pushing yourself enough, or you ski at a really small, family oriented area wit little to offer in terms of vertical and terrain. In either case, I put you at about what.....17 years old? Thread is an obvious claim thread. Boooooo Hisssssss tomato
You know who concerns themselves with trail ratings? Gapers. They like to brag about "skiing blacks" in the bar. No real skiers pay any attention to that shit.
Lastly, terrain is as difficult as you make it. You can find an easy route down almost anything in bounds. But someone else could take the same terrain and make it much more difficult by maybe sending it off the cornice, or picking the tightest pocket of trees, linking bump turns and gapping moguls instead of traversing back and forth, or teeing up a large roller gap that most people would've just skied over, etc.
This.
Good skiers pay no attention to trail ratings. They just look for the terrain features that interest them and they go there and ski them. Sometimes a green run will have lots of rollers or tree/rock bonks or gaps you can hit, sometimes a double black might have a nice cliff or some pow stashes. You look at the mountain, not how it's been graded by someone.
Skiers caring about ratings is a give away in the same way that skiers boasting about not falling is. If someone is proud about only having fallen over twice you know they're not very good.
In the Midwest, anything stated as a double black is overrated to a somewhat decent skier. As for bigger resorts, I've seen a mix. Some runs labeled as double black I found just as easy to navigate as blues at the same resort. Other double blacks sometimes noted as EX I've gotten halfway down and really questioned my decision to take that run.
Use trail ratings as general idea and use what you see as a real determinant of difficulty.
Good skiers pay no attention to trail ratings. They just look for the terrain features that interest them and they go there and ski them. You look at the mountain, not how it's been graded by someone.
This is exactly how everyone who rips skis, and how everyone who wants to rip hopes to ski.
TSBI meet a drunk hippie at the bar once who was telling me about the time he skied the elusive and secret "Triple Black Diamond" turns out it was just a frozen creek bed.
Well that does sound pretty difficult, probably deserves the tipple black rating.
the obvious answer is yes... theirs hills in ohio who have "double blacks"... but its important to note that they base the difficulty of the trails based on other trails on the mnt...
like this trail over here is in blue knob pa... most hills in the east would call it "A TRIPLE BLACK OMG!!!"
jynx81whats the hills name? id go to Wisconsin just for that... well maybe for the blonds too:)
Granite Peak. The skiing is great and there is big variety, but the management is a bunch of window-licking dick fleas. I really hate the people at this hill, get into a lot of arguments with grumpy locals. Its like a scaled-down Vail. But I usually do my own thing and have a good time.
SconnieGranite Peak. The skiing is great and there is big variety, but the management is a bunch of window-licking dick fleas. I really hate the people at this hill, get into a lot of arguments with grumpy locals. Its like a scaled-down Vail. But I usually do my own thing and have a good time.
hell yah granite peak! i heard it used to be the best hill in the mid west, looks liek thats changed a bit... but hey you still have the joy of knowing they're a cliff for jerrys to fall off of.
Here in Michigan double black diamonds seem to be rated correctly but diamonds are overrated. Couple places will even yell at you for skiing switch down diamonds.
I agree with you 100, I grew up skiing in Alaska and not to toot my own but our diamonds are legit. The first time I went to big sky my friend, The first place we hit is this face called the gullies which is supposedly the hardest runs on the mountain. Needless to say we tore the shit out of that run, and we did it two more times with hardly a sweat. I believe that people's perception of difficultly is all in skill, and your skiing environment (socially) the fact is, some towns harbor better skiers than others so their difficulty factors are different, also what the mountain gives you to work with is a factor as well. Because each mountain is unique, it's gonna have its own scale. So I wouldn't focus on the difficulty of a specific run but more the difficulty of the mountain.
Coloradoskier03It depends, because Vail's version of a double black diamond is nothing
Yeah Vail's are pretty laughable. But then they have runs like Steep& Deep and Lover's Leap not as double black, which I feel like they should if Highline and Pronto are double black.
trail ratings should be relative to the mountain, or even the pod that it's in. there are lots of greens out there that are pretty difficult for beginners, but they are just the easiest way down.
if there has been any inflation with this its probably for liability purposes. gorbies take trail ratings VERY seriously, so if you want to keep them off a certain run you just have to label it "expert". I've taught lessons where the guests refuse to go down a run because it's a black, even though it was no more steep/difficult than the blue one we just went down.
MailManI agree with you 100, I grew up skiing in Alaska and not to toot my own but our diamonds are legit. The first time I went to big sky my friend, The first place we hit is this face called the gullies which is supposedly the hardest runs on the mountain. Needless to say we tore the shit out of that run, and we did it two more times with hardly a sweat. I believe that people's perception of difficultly is all in skill, and your skiing environment (socially) the fact is, some towns harbor better skiers than others so their difficulty factors are different, also what the mountain gives you to work with is a factor as well. Because each mountain is unique, it's gonna have its own scale. So I wouldn't focus on the difficulty of a specific run but more the difficulty of the mountain.
lol the gullies are definitely not the hardest runs on the hill. Ive seen 5 year olds on the ski team doing it lol.
I think the double blacks are just made to scare off the jerrys for places that would be difficult to get them out of if injured etc. Its also just a catch all for anything harder than a black....which really isnt that hard to get above
If you define the difficulty of a line by its trail rating, you're a gaper.
Hell, the only time you should be mentioning or looking at trail ratings is when talking to or skiing with gapers.
Otherwise, ski what looks fun. Explore. Ask a local who rips if you can take a lap. And if you feel like bragging about how hard you slayed... Do it loud, do it proud, and do it stonefaced ironically! Mention it was a triple or quadruple diamond perhaps.
Profahoben_212lol the gullies are definitely not the hardest runs on the hill. Ive seen 5 year olds on the ski team doing it lol.
I think the double blacks are just made to scare off the jerrys for places that would be difficult to get them out of if injured etc. Its also just a catch all for anything harder than a black....which really isnt that hard to get above
I knew something was up, that shit was way too easy
