Transgender Children? I'm not sure about this

californiagrownThe last time one man decided what was socially acceptable a few million Jews died...

S.J.WI'm just going to quote you "don't make dick claims without backing it up". Do you have journals to back up your argument? I've presented my argument about the transgender brain with that video. Now unless you have journals or articles that present some sort of coherent argument I'm done with this conversation.

SlushI said, I learned about him in psychology, and I presented the knowledge I learned from said class. I thought that would be enough, sorry I didn't take pictures of my psych textbook and post them...

S.J.WIf you learned about him in psycology class then you should atleast have some journals about him you should be able to remember. Unless you learnt about him in high school and if so, LOL.

But I'm not really talking about David Reimer, I'm talking you saying that some peoples mind sets aren't meant for being a man or woman. Do you have any journals to back that point up?

"However, they fail to realize that a stronger connection to different things doesn't make them a different sex, just more masc/fem."

You seem to be making a lot of claims without any sources. This isn't a discussion about politics where someones opinion is someones opinion. This is a very difficult concept to understand and your opinion doesn't mean shit unless you can back it up using medical journals.

roddy116Dude you see this is what the problem is, we try to bring pointless science and psychology into an x and y thing, and make a big deal out of it for absolutely no reason. the whole point that people with a good grip on reality, are trying to make is that, the need for identity in gender is a pointless thing, has never been a problem until now and it never should have to be a problem.

McNocheYou are such a douche bag

S.J.WI'm just going to quote you "don't make dick claims without backing it up". Do you have journals to back up your argument? I've presented my argument about the transgender brain with that video. Now unless you have journals or articles that present some sort of coherent argument I'm done with this conversation.

S.J.WNo, we bring science and psychology into this discussion as it allows us to form a basis for our opinion. For example, I use to think being transgender was wrong. I then read a few medical journals, etc,etc now I am a firm believer in transgender rights.

And it's very easy for you to say that the need for identity in gender is pointless. Thousands of transgender people don't get that privilege. We know transgender people exist, we know they have problems, we know they face hardship. You're assuming x & y chromosomes to mean that someone must be male or female. If you look at the video, you'll see that people with x chromosomes who identify as a woman do indeed have a different brain structure.

Ian_FitzThis kids 13 and he already has a better understanding of life and a higher IQ then u.....and yes an IQ is not something you eat you would know this if you weren't dropped multiple times as a child.

roddy116Dude you see this is what the problem is, we try to bring pointless science and psychology into an x and y thing, and make a big deal out of it for absolutely no reason. the whole point that people with a good grip on reality, are trying to make is that, the need for identity in gender is a pointless thing, has never been a problem until now and it never should have to be a problem.

S.J.WAre you fucking kidding me? I asked for journal articles as being transgender is a highly debated discussion among the medical world and there is some great articles out there discussing nature vs nurture, among other theories of transgender and somehow means I have a low IQ? Get fucked kid. You're fucking screwed in life if you think referencing journals to make a valid point somehow makes someone dumb. Try to convince your college professor that when you finally get out of middle school.

roddy116No it just proves that you refuse to form your own opinion, also proving my idea that you have never actually formed your own opinion about anything, ever.

S.J.Wno I base my opinion on medical journals as being trans is incredibly complex. I told you I was against trans, then I read journal articles and now I am for transgender people. You are not a doctor, your opinion doesn't mean shit unless you can back it up using journals. Unless you want an ignorant opinion that falls upon logical fallacies.

roddy116exactly

S.J.WSo you're going to tell me that anti vaxxers opinions are valid because they formed it themselves even though all medical journals prove that vaccines don't cause autism? And then there's me, who thinks vaccines don't cause autism because I'm following advice on by doctors opinion isn't valid? When you visit a doctor do you just ignore them and think you know better because it's your opinion?

You're going to have a very ignorant life if you're so scared to read articles and adjust your opinion accordingly in fear of ermergeerrdddd it's not my opinion.

S.J.WSo you're going to tell me that anti vaxxers opinions are valid because they formed it themselves even though all medical journals prove that vaccines don't cause autism? And then there's me, who thinks vaccines don't cause autism because I'm following advice on by doctors opinion isn't valid? When you visit a doctor do you just ignore them and think you know better because it's your opinion?

You're going to have a very ignorant life if you're so scared to read articles and adjust your opinion accordingly in fear of ermergeerrdddd it's not my opinion.

roddy116no thats not what im saying at all, and that is not actually a good example.
and secondly, i thoroughly believe that you are not a smart person because you enjoy to self stroke your ego on a freestyle skiing forum where on the same page we have threads talking about the ways to take a dump at some points.

secondly, your ideas (bacuase clearly there not an opinion at all) are all based off of ideas from the extremist left, which are rarely backed up by any evidence of any kind. Which is further more why people really can not stand you at all.

third, your "arguments" for the most part are one copy and pasted thing that you found from tumblr.femifuck.org and whenever someone disagrees with you. you immediately go to well you have no journal evidence that you can copy and paste right to me, and if it doesnt agree with me, its from something that hurts your feels.

all on a freestyle skiing forum. if you want to circle jerk to people who will talk with you on your incredibly "intellectual" level. there is a special place in reddit/feminism and/ or tumblr for you.

S.J.WNo that's exactly what you're saying. I base my opinions on medical journals as I'm not a doctor and being trans is a very complex issue. So I'm going to base my opinion on experts who understand and study cognitive development and gender identity.

Secondly, did you view the video, they literally posted studies about the transgender brain.

thirdly, refer back to video, they literally posted studies.

You have no ground to stand on, you have not made one fucking argument apart from that I copy opinions on medical experts. Off course I fucking will follow the advice of a medical expert. I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to pretend my opinion is more valid than a doctors.

And hahahaha, you're also discussing so the last point also applies to you, you fucking hypocrite. Sorry I posted on a fucking forum about trans people. Sorry I backed my argument up with scientific journals. I guess on this website the more ignorant you, the cooler you are. Hahahahah fuck you're a joke. Go live your ignorant life and being scared to change your opinions based on experts.

S.J.WAre you fucking kidding me? I asked for journal articles as being transgender is a highly debated discussion among the medical world and there is some great articles out there discussing nature vs nurture, among other theories of transgender and somehow means I have a low IQ? Get fucked kid. You're fucking screwed in life if you think referencing journals to make a valid point somehow makes someone dumb. Try to convince your college professor that when you finally get out of middle school.

ben_collinsAnd now Target is allowing fucking ANYONE who "identifies" as trans to go into either bathroom of their choice, boy or girls. Imagine being a dad and seeing you 8 year old daughter go into the womans room and then 5 seconds later a 30 year old man "identifying" as trans walks in after her

Like WTF. If you have a penis go in the fucking mens room. If you have a vagina go in the women's room

GORILLAWALLACEyeah but that is hillbilly logic

if you don't let transgender people into the bathroom of their choice you will find in the womens room with young women; women who look, act, and feel like men, and are likely into women. which is what you're trying to prevent right?

SlushThats a very interesting point. I've never thought of that... What do you think a solution to that might be? Like I'm genuinely curious, now we have this situation where it's kinda "damned if you do, damned if you don't"

SlushThanks for ignoring what I said

ben_collinsAnd now Target is allowing fucking ANYONE who "identifies" as trans to go into either bathroom of their choice, boy or girls. Imagine being a dad and seeing you 8 year old daughter go into the womans room and then 5 seconds later a 30 year old man "identifying" as trans walks in after her

Like WTF. If you have a penis go in the fucking mens room. If you have a vagina go in the women's room

roddy116k, so, no one is arguing their validity of their opinion thesides you.
and also, you are doing exactly what i am pointing out, which is why no one likes you or wants to talk to you on this website, just look back and read out loud what you are saying, it is rather laughable.

S.J.WI don't give a fuck what someone on this website could think of me. If I gave two shits I wouldn't post a controversial opinion and stick to the circle jerks of NS. Sorry for posting an opinion on a TRANSGENDER thread, you know I thought this was a forum but apparently it's not. Sorry for basing my opinion on science and peer reviewed journals.

You tried to voice an opinion, you realised your opinion was a piece of shit and you know nothing and now you're back peddling. You never once tried to point out no one likes me on this website. You only just mentioned it then. Anyways, enjoy living your ignorant little life, enjoy getting done for plagiarism when you're in college because you're too scared to reference your sources.

REGRESSIVELEFTFirst of all, raise your hand if you are a white heterosexual male.

Yep, this entire thread is full of privileged jackasses.
Take note of the pink names response.

Second, who has seen "The Mask You Live In" ?

Third, fuck this thread.

roddy116lol how mad are you? again, your just talking about sources rather than backing up your points rather than inputting your thoughts and opinions, (a rather important part of any conversation/debate)

which leads around again to my opinion of you having no original thoughts whatsoever, its pretty clear, rather than actually saying something useful (never happened ever) you just choose to say your all stupid.

like do you have to be absolutely right all the time, its a little weird that you are willing to sacrifice people opinions of you. on top of that, it shows great immaturity. if you want to have a good conversation, grow up a bit, (a lot a bit) form your own opinion based off of "scientific" articles rather than just barfing out what they say online. You sound really stupid.

S.J.W1. I talked about David Reimer and my opinion about him, I then later posted a video. Would you prefer me to just rephrase the video in my own words? I can't be fucked to do that.

2. And if you refer to my original post, you will see I made a claim, then backed it up with the video.

3. It's the internet buddy, I really don't care what people think of me. And what the fuck are you on about? I have formed my opinion after reading journals on transgender, both from a psychology point of view and a cognitive development. Did you miss the part where I said I use to be against transgender until I changed my opinion due to research? You're probably skipping that part.

If you have nothing more to say, leave me alone because this conversation is going no where and I can't be fucked to continue to converse with a person who is more interested in picking apart how I form my opinions rather than the discussion at hand which is transgender and children.

roddy116ok cool you made a claim? i never said you didnt, but you lack the ability and maturity to continually talk about your thoughts and opinions and rather get defensive and angry when people disagree with you, posting one actual statement that is worth a read.

But dude, you saying one thing with a half decent example, then refusing to back up anything you say with thought, rather than getting angry. Makes me believe that you are incapable of forming your own ideas.

S.J.WBecause no one made a cohesive argument. Slush made a claim but failed to back it up so I'm not just going to continually post studies on transgender kids am I? That's not how a forum works. And I'm not going to converse with someone who is against transgender when they can't back up their argument using journals. It's the same with global warming, I'm not an expert on global warming, so I'm going to refer to the experts who spend their entire life studying it. Same with transgender, I'm not an expert on cognitive development, so I'm going to refer to the experts on cognitive development and transgender.

You seem to fail to see how citing sources works.

roddy116Good and im glad that you can stroke your ego that way, im sorry that is what helps you sleep at night, but whatever goes for you. That doesnt mean that his argument is less valid, that is the equivalent of a feminist saying that im not allowed to have an opinion of some subject because i am a white male.

californiagrownWhat? you dont like when someone else uses the EXACT same analogy against you? what a hypocrite, huh?

S.J.WNo it's nothing like that. For your argument to be valid you need to back your opinion up with sources. That's literally argumentative writing 101. Otherwise it's a shit argument and I'm not going to take it seriously.

For example, Masshole and I have different opinions on politics, but I respect his opinion and value his opinion greatly because he constantly backs his opinions up with facts, reasoning or sources. Slush never did that. Someone could agree with me but if they failed to reference their sources then their argument is shit. Try to convince your college professor that your essay doesn't need sources because "it's my opinion and I'm valued to my opinion, you're just not allowing me to voice my opinion".

I'm done with this conversation, you've wasted enough of my time. If you don't get why someone needs to back up their argument with sources then you're completely lost and I fear what type of educational institution you attended.

REGRESSIVELEFTFirst of all, raise your hand if you are a white heterosexual male.

Yep, this entire thread is full of privileged jackasses.

THEDIRTYBUBBLEOh look! A typical ad-hominem response from REGRESSIVELEFT.

roddy116If you actually think that race and gender and sexuality has anything to do with economic status and privilege, you need to put your head under a hydraulic press.

S.J.WNo it's nothing like that. For your argument to be valid you need to back your opinion up with sources. That's literally argumentative writing 101. Otherwise it's a shit argument and I'm not going to take it seriously.

For example, Masshole and I have different opinions on politics, but I respect his opinion and value his opinion greatly because he constantly backs his opinions up with facts, reasoning or sources. Slush never did that. Someone could agree with me but if they failed to reference their sources then their argument is shit. Try to convince your college professor that your essay doesn't need sources because "it's my opinion and I'm valued to my opinion, you're just not allowing me to voice my opinion".

I'm done with this conversation, you've wasted enough of my time. If you don't get why someone needs to back up their argument with sources then you're completely lost and I fear what type of educational institution you attended.

LonelyI'm fairly neutral about all of this, since I have not had any real experience with someone who's trans. I would imagine many others in this thread have little to no experience but seem to have plenty of opinions. The bathroom argument is silly, people who are trans have been using the bathrooms of their choice for a long time. To much time is being spent arguing about the extremes in many of these issues. Yes there's crazy feminists out there. That is a small percentage. The percentage of 30 year old men identifying as a 6 year old is even smaller. The point is moot. Although, my objective questions is where is the line drawn.

It is a fact that as a society we are getting softer and softer. Kids aren't alowwed to play tag, you can get suspended for drawing a stick figure with a gun and school's "refrain" from teaching serious topics (trail of tears,slavery, etc.). This is the real issue because it is simply science that someone can be the wrong gender. The issue arises when you have someone who wants to be a special snowflake but really isn't. This takes away from those who are stuck in the wrong body, who have suicidal thoughts, depression or countless other real issues that are being romanticized by social media and making things like depression something you use for attention. Shadowing those who actually suffer.

This should be what is really focused on. I can understand someone with a view like slush. You see things on social media, on the Internet, and think wow, look at these fools. The realization comes once you understand that the people with real issues are hidden. But it's to late because the bad name has been created. I personally don't think children should be transgender, because it takes a while to figure things out and the enviroment can have more of an effect on a child than one may think. You don't want someone to change only for it to cause more suffering. But after that? It's their choice. Let people be people and you be you.

roddy116at the end of the day though, he/ she/ it is a teenager and doesnt know what it wants. There young and really stupid, and will not have a grasp on identity, probably ever, no tumblr post can change that.

snowdonWell, to be fair most teenagers are still figuring out their identities, just not to the extent of a trans kid. It's not like this is something that would happen overnight, it'd be years in the making. If I had, say, a 13 year old son who starting telling me at age 2 that he's a girl and never quit, then yeah, I'd at least be considering it.

SlushThis actually somewhat changes my perspective on the subject. See, this is what S.J.W need do, not be a cunt about argument. Everything you said I feel is pretty accurate and intelligent, and makes sense. I never really put much thought into the things you said until you presented them as such.

SlushIf you want to argue read what I say. In no way did I say one man should control what's socially acceptable, I actually said somewhat of the opposite. Read and understand what I'm trying to say before you reply

S.J.WI was literally quoting what you said to regressiveleft about making claims without backing them up. So its okay for you to do that? But not okay for regressiveleft to make claims without backing them up? Got it, you're a hypocrite and don't know the first thing about writing a persuasive piece.