Trouble With Shop Mounting Bindings

Sounds shitty. Maybe your boots are worn? That is often more important than the binding wear.

Damn that really sucks my local shop charged my 20 bucks and did them right there. I don't know if I would go back there, i would of stuff back tough if they said it would be 3 weeks.

Torque tests are usually done post mounting and typically on a Montana machine but can also be done by hand. The likelihood of a brand new binding being defective is slim, although it is definitely possible. Your safest bet would be to take them to another shop to get a second opinion before skiing but if the guy couldn't give you an answer as to why your bindings were defective it's likely they're fine. I mean 6 ACL's? Really?

Seems like they might have messed up and are dicking you around now to try to cover their butts just my opinion, but wouldn't surprise me.

Shoey-SkiSeems like they might have messed up and are dicking you around now to try to cover their butts just my opinion, but wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah that's my best guess. I know a little bit about gear, but not enough to try to argue with a shop owner about it. This just doesn't seem right, ya know? I'm going to a different shop to get a second opinion but I don't wanna go there without any clue about whats up, which is why I made this thread haha. I don't know if I'm in the wrong or if the shop is but this all is too sketchy for my liking.

Iv seen new bindings fail test, like someone said above its rare, but it can happen. The fact that they didn't tell you what failed and didn't try to help is real shitty. Id try a new shop, get a binding test, and see what they say. GOOD LUCK!

Mingg1. When you do a torque test, do they do it after they mount them or before? Basically idk if they failed because they're defective or if they did a bad job adjusting them because he wouldn't tell me even though I asked twice.
2. What are the odds of brand new bindings being defective? What are the odds that this shop is just dicking me around and didn't do the work right?
3. Are they actually dangerous to ski?
4. If I take them to a different shop would that shop be able to help or is the damage already done?
5. When you get bindings mounted is it fair to expect you get your skis back in skiable condition? If so, is it fair to want a refund since they didn't really do all the work they should have.

Bindings are tested after they are mounted, because they can't be fully tested unless they are mounted. In order to be tested, they should be properly set up and adjusted to the exact boot you are using. If your boot sole is too worn or damaged, that alone can cause release problems and the binding to fail. Make sure that is also not contributing to the problem.

Like any product, a new binding could come out of the box and not work properly. This can happen, but it is very rare. Chances are slim that a new binding that has been on the market for years is not working out of the box.

If your bindings are not adjusted properly, definitely don't ski them. They are defective or this shop is clueless, so either way don't rush to use them until you can have them checked by someone who truly knows what they are doing. Since you spoke with the "owner" of the shop, I am doubtful of anyone else there who will contradict his opinion. And if they stand by their work, then you will most likely have a very difficult time getting a refund.

If you go with one of your gear-knowledgeable friends to a different shop, explain the situation, have them assess your boots & ski/binding set up, and ask if they can replicate the failure or have it pass. If they get it to pass, then I would go back to the previous shop and demand a refund because that means they did not properly do the test. If it fails, then you need figure out why it failed (was it the boot or was it the binding) and take the next steps with whatever shop you feel most comfortable dealing with.

There will be a printed report of your bindings' failure of the test. Ask the guy who tested them to talk you through it, not the shop owner.

Holy fuck I think I know what the idiots didn't do.

My toe piece is at 4.5 and the heel is at 7..???
Like correct me if I'm wrong but that is not right.

Would this be why they failed a torque test?

MinggHoly fuck I think I know what the idiots didn't do.

My toe piece is at 4.5 and the heel is at 7..???
Like correct me if I'm wrong but that is not right.

Would this be why they failed a torque test?

It is can be common for the toe DIN setting to not be equal to the heel DIN setting, but that much of a gap is highly suspicious... Something definitely seems not right with their work. Do you have the paperwork from the binding release test? They would have needed to mark down these settings on the paperwork...

onenerdykidIt is can be common for the toe DIN setting to not be equal to the heel DIN setting, but that much of a gap is highly suspicious... Something definitely seems not right with their work. Do you have the paperwork from the binding release test? They would have needed to mark down these settings on the paperwork...

I have nothing from them. They didn't even give me a receipt or anything. They just told me not to ski them and ignored all my questions. And now I'm looking at the other ski and its at 5 and 8...

If they failed, wouldn't they think to adjust/check that kind of stuff?? I know I'm not the most knowledgable with this kind of stuff but this just makes no sense haha.

MinggI have nothing from them. They didn't even give me a receipt or anything. They just told me not to ski them and ignored all my questions. And now I'm looking at the other ski and its at 5 and 8...

If they failed, wouldn't they think to adjust/check that kind of stuff?? I know I'm not the most knowledgable with this kind of stuff but this just makes no sense haha.

Even if they test your bindings and they fail, they still need (or should, depending on what their lawyer says) to have you sign the paperwork that they did all of the necessary steps and that the bindings did not pass (meaning the shop is not at fault). If they did not do this, then that is sketchy to say the least. I would recommend you go back to them and ask why your heels are set so much higher (almost double!) from your toes and then ask to see the binding release test paperwork. If they won't provide you with that, then I would immediately ask for a refund and take your business elsewhere.

onenerdykidEven if they test your bindings and they fail, they still need (or should, depending on what their lawyer says) to have you sign the paperwork that they did all of the necessary steps and that the bindings did not pass (meaning the shop is not at fault). If they did not do this, then that is sketchy to say the least. I would recommend you go back to them and ask why your heels are set so much higher (almost double!) from your toes and then ask to see the binding release test paperwork. If they won't provide you with that, then I would immediately ask for a refund and take your business elsewhere.

I signed stuff when I dropped them off but not when I picked them up... But that sounds like a solid plan. Hopefully that's what was wrong with them!

Go back to the shop and ask them if they actually failed the torque test and what the release values were. The guy might have rush mounted them and didnt test them on account of the squirrely circumstances - which is still completely fucking unacceptable and irresponsible of the shop.

The guy probably fucked something up or was trying to hit on you with that sort of behavior.

MinggI have nothing from them. They didn't even give me a receipt or anything. They just told me not to ski them and ignored all my questions.

You're either not telling us the whole story or your shop is bullshitting you.

Go to a better shop, get everything done, then if it's all good go back to the original shop and ask politely for a refund. It would be worth asking the other shop's advice when you pick them up actually. If you can't get your money back from the original shop then just let it go and enjoy the winter.

MinggHoly fuck I think I know what the idiots didn't do.

My toe piece is at 4.5 and the heel is at 7..???
Like correct me if I'm wrong but that is not right.

Would this be why they failed a torque test?

Definitely a possibility, the FKS is a tricky bastard to adjust the forward pressure. There could be a chance that your FKS is maxed out din but doesn't sound like it bc of the above quote. My brother had an issue with his FKS where the rear piece was maxed out because he bought the binding and ski from a bigger guy and didn't want to remount, the forward pressure just barely worked so maybe the shop you took them to jacked it up bad. There could also just be a chance that the guy is super biased and wants to look out for your best interest and or have you buy bindings from his shop. The odds he tore his acls 6 times is pretty crazy imo.

gnarballsianmDefinitely a possibility, the FKS is a tricky bastard to adjust the forward pressure. There could be a chance that your FKS is maxed out din but doesn't sound like it bc of the above quote. My brother had an issue with his FKS where the rear piece was maxed out because he bought the binding and ski from a bigger guy and didn't want to remount, the forward pressure just barely worked so maybe the shop you took them to jacked it up bad. There could also just be a chance that the guy is super biased and wants to look out for your best interest and or have you buy bindings from his shop. The odds he tore his acls 6 times is pretty crazy imo.

yeah I guess. But honestly I don't think they adjusted them at all from how I brought them in. I think they just didn't give a fuck based on how long they wanted me to wait and how unwilling they were to help.

And I wasn't about to buy anything from a shop because I got proforms for look and on3p. But I still paid them 75 bucks to do it. Money shouldn't be an issue at all. From what I've been told this is like a 20 minute job. For 75 bucks they should at least put some effort into it. right?

And if you tear your ACL using the same bindings 6 fucking times wouldn't you think to stop using them..? The dude just sounded like a straight up idiot.

Gonna take a wild guess and say your din on the chart is supposed to be a 7 aka why your heel is a 7 and they were testing it and the toe wasn't testing correctly so they turned it down... you can only turn a din down 2 numbers below the actual number that its supposed to be aka most bindings don't test correctly to the tensions that its supposed to be. so you need to tweak it to get that number...My guess is that your toes were testing very high and they turned it down and down and down and eventually it hit a 4.5 which is a failing number...if your number is supposed to be a 7... a 5 you would be ok but below that is failing...Thats my guess from working in a shop and mounting bindings all day and testing them all day and what not...Keep me posted.

ICaryGonna take a wild guess and say your din on the chart is supposed to be a 7 aka why your heel is a 7 and they were testing it and the toe wasn't testing correctly so they turned it down... you can only turn a din down 2 numbers below the actual number that its supposed to be aka most bindings don't test correctly to the tensions that its supposed to be. so you need to tweak it to get that number...My guess is that your toes were testing very high and they turned it down and down and down and eventually it hit a 4.5 which is a failing number...if your number is supposed to be a 7... a 5 you would be ok but below that is failing...Thats my guess from working in a shop and mounting bindings all day and testing them all day and what not...Keep me posted.

Yeah thats true. But one set was at 4.5 and 7, the other was at 5 and 8. So I'm very confused haha but maybe they did try to adjust them.

I have finals the next 2 weeks and I'm going out of town this weekend so I can't get to a shop yet. It's almost a 2 hour drive away so I just haven't been able to go. They're a look dealer so they should be able to get them set. If it actually is the bindings that are defective I'm fucked. I bought them off like backcountry or something. I don't remember, but I don't know how much Look would be able to help out in that situation or if they'd even be able to help at all. I probably can't afford them at full price(they're last years) sooooo fuck me. And I don't want to get anything else because my skis have already been drilled and I'm not really looking to do that. Especially because they're like 650 dollar skis.

I didn't read the replies, sorry if I'm repeating anything.

>1. When you do a torque test, do they do it after they mount them or before?
The bindings have to be mounted, forward pressure set, DIN set, boot locked into binding. Then a torque wrench is used to see how much torque is needed to make the boot release. If it falls within the DIN's torque test range then they pass. If it falls outside of that range, it means that the binding's DIN is innacurate so the DIN is adjusted to make up for that. Failing doesn't mean the bindings are bad, it means the DIN has to be adjusted -- then they will be tested again, and probably pass. If they fail again, they'll have the DIN adjusted again, test again... etc until pass. There may be a limit to how far ski techs will adjust the DIN from the specified number, so the only thing I can think of in this situation besides idiot shop techs is that the binding's DIN was *way* off. Which would be unlikely.

>Basically idk if they failed because they're defective or if they did a bad job adjusting them because he wouldn't tell me even though I asked twice.
Sounds like they either messed up your skis/bindings and don't want to take responsibility, or they are idiots and didn't pay any attention during their binding training and don't realize that a failed test is okay, it just means the DIN has to be adjusted.

>2. What are the odds of brand new bindings being defective?
It is pretty likely for the DIN to be inaccurate (which could just be a single toe piece or single heel piece, they won't always correlate just because they came together) and therefore that the binding will initially fail the torque release test, but that can be corrected by adjusting DIN. For the binding to be defective in some other way, something that would make it unsafe to use? Pretty unlikely I think, and if that was the case the shop techs should be happy to help you get in touch with Rossi for warranty replacement.

>What are the odds that this shop is just dicking me around and didn't do the work right?
90%

>3. Are they actually dangerous to ski?
Not enough info to say. But not knowing they are safe makes them by default unsafe. So yeah, I would say they are dangerous until you have someone who knows what they're doing look at them. Take your skis (and boots) to a different shop, explain everything to them.

>4. If I take them to a different shop would that shop be able to help or is the damage already done?
Depends. If the first shop drilled the skis wrong, they may or may not be able to be re-drilled (depends if the old holes and new holes would overlap). Worst case scenario is you have to move them a few centimeters forward or backward, which may or may not be a big deal to you.
If it was something other than drilling them wrong, it would of course depend on what they did wrong. But if they're just too stupid to understand forward pressure, torque testing, etc, then another shop will easily be able to fix it. Basically the only way they wouldn't is if the first shop broke something (i.e. by being idiots during the binding tests and breaking the bindings; not sure how they would do it, but idiots manage to do some pretty incomprehensible things sometimes)

>5. When you get bindings mounted is it fair to expect you get your skis back in skiable condition? If so, is it fair to want a refund since they didn't really do all the work they should have.
Yes, if they messed up, they'll have to replace your skis and/or bindings (whichever they broke) and then either mount the new ones the right way, or give you back the money you paid them for the mounting. If they fail to do all of this, you can sue them and you will win. If they did mess stuff up and are unwilling to make things right, threaten to sue them, that'll scare them enough to make them give you everything they owe you.
And never go back to that shop after getting what they owe you.

My qualifications: I work at a ski/bike shop, I've done binding testing, I know how it works

^Rossi for warranty replacement
meant to say Look

MinggHoly fuck I think I know what the idiots didn't do.

My toe piece is at 4.5 and the heel is at 7..???
Like correct me if I'm wrong but that is not right.

Would this be why they failed a torque test?

If they did the test right, it would work like this (with example/hypothetical numbers)
>your DIN chart says 7
>they set toe and heel to 7
>test
>heel passes
>toe fails, requires more force than necessary
>put it down to 6
>fails again
>put it down to 5
>fails again
>put it down to 4.5 to get it within test range
It is normal to have to go a little bit off, like knocking it from 7 down to 6.5 or 6. But 4.5 doesn't sound right. Maybe they messed up something else (forward pressure perhaps) which resulted in extra force being required. In which case the forward pressure has to be adjusted, then the DIN re-set/re-tested.
One possibility is they mounted the binding toe/heel pieces a little too close together resulting in them being unable to get the right forward pressure. They didn't want to replace your skis since they were drilled wrong, so instead of being honest that they messed up, they tell you your bindings are defective when nothing is wrong with them.
This is just one possibility of course. I would suggest you look up a manual for your specific bindings and see how to set forward pressure on them (PM me if you need help with finding that info) then look at your bindings and see if the forward pressure is set correctly. If forward pressure is set incorrectly then 95% that's what is wrong.

As I mentioned I work at a ski/bike shop, but this is my first winter there, so I don't have a lot of experience with bindings. I know the basics but I may be overlooking something that a more experienced tech could tell you.

MinggI have nothing from them. They didn't even give me a receipt or anything. They just told me not to ski them and ignored all my questions. And now I'm looking at the other ski and its at 5 and 8...

If they failed, wouldn't they think to adjust/check that kind of stuff?? I know I'm not the most knowledgable with this kind of stuff but this just makes no sense haha.

I don't know much about the legal/liability side of things but I would guess this would give you even more grounds for sueing them if they really did mess stuff up. They are supposed to have you sign a waiver when you pick up your stuff, if you didn't then you could hold them legally accountable for any injuries you sustain as a result. Again, I'm not an expert on the legal side of things, so I may be mistaken here.

Im sorry ming... Same thing happened to me, took them a month to mount mine up, i had to buy new boots, and two diff pairs of bindings before they were finished.

This whole thing sounds incredibly fucked up.

And charging $75 for a binding mount is highway robbery.

They might have the DIN set all fucked up like that because they bindings are messed up and the settings are set like that to compensate. Seems wrong though I would never feel comfortable doing that. If it were me I would probably take out and do some test runs where you try to get them to release and see how it goes.

MinggYeah thats true. But one set was at 4.5 and 7, the other was at 5 and 8. So I'm very confused haha but maybe they did try to adjust them.

I have finals the next 2 weeks and I'm going out of town this weekend so I can't get to a shop yet. It's almost a 2 hour drive away so I just haven't been able to go. They're a look dealer so they should be able to get them set. If it actually is the bindings that are defective I'm fucked. I bought them off like backcountry or something. I don't remember, but I don't know how much Look would be able to help out in that situation or if they'd even be able to help at all. I probably can't afford them at full price(they're last years) sooooo fuck me. And I don't want to get anything else because my skis have already been drilled and I'm not really looking to do that. Especially because they're like 650 dollar skis.

Hey Ming what ever ended up happening? Where the bindings defective or just was the shop a dick?

Shoey-SkiHey Ming what ever ended up happening? Where the bindings defective or just was the shop a dick?

I haven't had the time to go yet. I'm heading home on Thursday after finals which is an hour closer to the shop. So while I'm at home in gonna find out!

LiteratureThis whole thing sounds incredibly fucked up.

And charging $75 for a binding mount is highway robbery.

This and this.

So I took my skis to The City Garage today and they adjusted my dins and they were all set. Literally only took 5 minutes and that's all that was wrong. The cockwombles at the other shop either didn't give a shit or are straight stupid.

MinggSo I took my skis to The City Garage today and they adjusted my dins and they were all set. Literally only took 5 minutes and that's all that was wrong. The cockwombles at the other shop either didn't give a shit or are straight stupid.

The city garage is tight, I love that shop, glad to hear a good out come tho I would try getting your money back from that other shop they don't seem to know what they are doing and that isn't your fault

MinggSo I took my skis to The City Garage today and they adjusted my dins and they were all set. Literally only took 5 minutes and that's all that was wrong. The cockwombles at the other shop either didn't give a shit or are straight stupid.

Jesus. I work at a shop and it took me about 5 minutes to learn to read the chart to adjust dins correctly. The older guys that work at my shop made sure I could do that shit in my sleep before letting me actually jump on the machine that torque tests the bindings and working with customer stuff.

Sorry you had to go through that.

Shoey-SkiThe city garage is tight, I love that shop, glad to hear a good out come tho I would try getting your money back from that other shop they don't seem to know what they are doing and that isn't your fault

TRU. I should have just gone there to begin with. They hooked it up and checked out my other skis that I had remounted at the other shop and they did it all for free. It was awesome. So stoked to finally get some laps with these skis before I take them to Whistler!:D