Keeping Jumbo Wild

bump to the top, this needs attention !!!!

i think they should rip it up into a huge resort with no housing and an endless supply of molly.

I live in the area I think what they need to do is a whistler setup where the bottom in commercial and built up. and then the top is kept almost untouched glacier to ski on nearly year around. They can do both keep it wild and commercialize it. they just have to be smart about it. It would be amazing for the economy in the area.

So yes I think they show build on it, but I think they should be smart about it.

I'm sorry, but I just do not understand the reason for not developing this. Are there more reasons than:
- this is the place of the native grizzly bear
- nice area full of nature
?

I mean have you been to the canadian rockies? There's about a billion other beautiful nature reserves that actually are protected, and virtually nothing else out there is as developed as what they are proposing.

Canada lacks a year round ski resort, but has all the resources to do so. There's tonnes of these resorts in europe, and frankly they are really awesome. Easy access to year round skiing and any number of other activities, great attractions for visitors and huge revenue generators for the region. Yet they manage to focus on reducing their environmental impact.

I completely agree with the fact that we need to ensure humanity reduces our environmental impact, but with population growth and general demand people do want easy access to the outdoors. Maybe jumbo isn't the exact spot to do this, but somewhere in the rockies has to be

dbchiliI'm sorry, but I just do not understand the reason for not developing this. Are there more reasons than:
- this is the place of the native grizzly bear
- nice area full of nature
?

I mean have you been to the canadian rockies? There's about a billion other beautiful nature reserves that actually are protected, and virtually nothing else out there is as developed as what they are proposing.

Canada lacks a year round ski resort, but has all the resources to do so. There's tonnes of these resorts in europe, and frankly they are really awesome. Easy access to year round skiing and any number of other activities, great attractions for visitors and huge revenue generators for the region. Yet they manage to focus on reducing their environmental impact.

I completely agree with the fact that we need to ensure humanity reduces our environmental impact, but with population growth and general demand people do want easy access to the outdoors. Maybe jumbo isn't the exact spot to do this, but somewhere in the rockies has to be

Hey man i agree that there is some other place to do this, but here is what the company protecting them has to say, "SAY NO TO JUMBO GLACIER RESORT, YES TO PERMANENT PROTECTION

The Jumbo Valley, located deep in the wilds of British Columbia’s Purcell Mountains, has long been revered for its spiritual significance and beauty. To the Ktunaxa Nation, it is known as Qat’muk, home of the grizzly bear spirit.

Part of a crucial international wildlife corridor, the Jumbo Valley is one of only two remaining areas in North America where bears can freely roam between Canada and the US. Permanent development of the valley would likely lead to reduced grizzly populations locally, regionally and even continentally.

For nearly 25 years, local people—First Nations, skiers, riders, alpinists and conservationists—have fought a proposed large-scale ski resort in Jumbo. The Ktunaxa First Nation’s Qat’muk Declaration asserts that the Jumbo Valley is of significant spiritual and ecological importance and calls for its permanent protection.

There are few places left like this in the world and it is our duty to make sure the Jumbo Valley remains intact now and long into the future."

To me, there are ways to build a ski area here in a non-disruptive way, but I would never trust a corporation to do it. At this point anyone who has the money to build a ski area on this scale probably has no interest in the skiing side.

chiefclulHey man i agree that there is some other place to do this, but here is what the company protecting them has to say, "SAY NO TO JUMBO GLACIER RESORT, YES TO PERMANENT PROTECTION

The Jumbo Valley, located deep in the wilds of British Columbia’s Purcell Mountains, has long been revered for its spiritual significance and beauty. To the Ktunaxa Nation, it is known as Qat’muk, home of the grizzly bear spirit.

Part of a crucial international wildlife corridor, the Jumbo Valley is one of only two remaining areas in North America where bears can freely roam between Canada and the US. Permanent development of the valley would likely lead to reduced grizzly populations locally, regionally and even continentally.

For nearly 25 years, local people—First Nations, skiers, riders, alpinists and conservationists—have fought a proposed large-scale ski resort in Jumbo. The Ktunaxa First Nation’s Qat’muk Declaration asserts that the Jumbo Valley is of significant spiritual and ecological importance and calls for its permanent protection.

There are few places left like this in the world and it is our duty to make sure the Jumbo Valley remains intact now and long into the future."

so that's a no to my first question then, there is no other reason

I mean, will all these people protesting also protest any other place a company proposes to build a resort? It sure sounds like it

also... bears roaming freely between canada and the US.... hilarious

dbchiliso that's a no to my first question then, there is no other reason

I mean, will all these people protesting also protest any other place a company proposes to build a resort? It sure sounds like it

also... bears roaming freely between canada and the US.... hilarious

This is a home to many important people including the First Nation, skiers and riders like us, and many conservationists, so yes there are many other reasons including it being a significant spiritual and ecological place. There are many other places that can be used as a ski resort, but those places may not be as important to these people as the Valley in Purcell Mountains, so why don't we find somewhere else to build it?

Keep it wild so us skiers who are not lazy can have the terrain to ourselves!

chiefclulThis is a home to many important people including the First Nation, skiers and riders like us, and many conservationists, so yes there are many other reasons including it being a significant spiritual and ecological place. There are many other places that can be used as a ski resort, but those places may not be as important to these people as the Valley in Purcell Mountains, so why don't we find somewhere else to build it?

agreed. i havent gotten too involved in environmental issues but this situation has a couple different facets that are worth preserving. in the sweetgrass movie they produced a good graphic that showed the fragmentation of the grizzly populations in BC that has already occurred because of highway systems and residential development. jumbo is indeed located in a pretty critical corridor that, if broken up, could very easily deteriorate the largest swath of grizzly population in the rockies. do we really want to continue this pattern until there are no grizzlies left? grizzlies are fuckin dope and inspirational n shit

@dbchili whatchu think

I'd love to be the mayor of a town with no residents.

But seriously, fuck that. We don't need another resort in BC. The ones that are there have a hard enough time as it is.

Search bar - seriously. Search jumbo and you will get something like 10 threads about jumbo.

Also - Beating a dead horse

If you don't live here, and don't understand why everyone here is against it, that's fine. You don't need to understand, you just need to accept.

Really though, it's quite simple. There are 7 ski resorts in the kootenays. None of them are thriving, most are struggling to stay afloat. Supply/demand. If jumbo happens, it's going to hurt the region, not help it.

Jumbo is a joke, and it's not funny.

Someone pissed in this guys wheaties this morning ^

Year round skiing a 3 hour drive away, I think yes.

saracheezyagreed. i havent gotten too involved in environmental issues but this situation has a couple different facets that are worth preserving. in the sweetgrass movie they produced a good graphic that showed the fragmentation of the grizzly populations in BC that has already occurred because of highway systems and residential development. jumbo is indeed located in a pretty critical corridor that, if broken up, could very easily deteriorate the largest swath of grizzly population in the rockies. do we really want to continue this pattern until there are no grizzlies left? grizzlies are fuckin dope and inspirational n shit

@dbchili whatchu think

this is much more of what i was looking for

decline of a species towards extinction is an excellent reason not to build something. If there's scientific evidence that supports this then building a resort is a no-go i totally agree

that being said, at some point one of these mega year round resorts will have to be built in BC. If people really don't want it to be jumbo, then they should proactively find a better location and present it to the developers. Don't just stand there and complain, be proactive and find a solution that works for everyone

dbchilithis is much more of what i was looking for

decline of a species towards extinction is an excellent reason not to build something. If there's scientific evidence that supports this then building a resort is a no-go i totally agree

that being said, at some point one of these mega year round resorts will have to be built in BC. If people really don't want it to be jumbo, then they should proactively find a better location and present it to the developers. Don't just stand there and complain, be proactive and find a solution that works for everyone

BC already has a Mega year round resort. It's called whistler. It's in possibly the best location for success and it still doesn't do super amazing. No ski resort in Western Canada is doing super amazing.

Building another mega resort in the middle of nowhere (up to 5 hours from any kind of population base/airport) where you have to drive past (or further than) 5+ already established resorts to get to, and literally everyone who lives within a 500km radius of the place is against it.

There is a reason they have been trying for over 20 years with nothing to show for it. The only question left to ask is: why are they still trying?

DrailBC already has a Mega year round resort. It's called whistler. It's in possibly the best location for success and it still doesn't do super amazing. No ski resort in Western Canada is doing super amazing.

Building another mega resort in the middle of nowhere (up to 5 hours from any kind of population base/airport) where you have to drive past (or further than) 5+ already established resorts to get to, and literally everyone who lives within a 500km radius of the place is against it.

There is a reason they have been trying for over 20 years with nothing to show for it. The only question left to ask is: why are they still trying?

This.. There is at least 8,000 people against it, at least on the petition, so why do they try and keep going even though there are so many people against it.

DrailBC already has a Mega year round resort. It's called whistler. It's in possibly the best location for success and it still doesn't do super amazing. No ski resort in Western Canada is doing super amazing.

Building another mega resort in the middle of nowhere (up to 5 hours from any kind of population base/airport) where you have to drive past (or further than) 5+ already established resorts to get to, and literally everyone who lives within a 500km radius of the place is against it.

There is a reason they have been trying for over 20 years with nothing to show for it. The only question left to ask is: why are they still trying?

Are you kidding me? Whistler makes serious money, is always busy, and does really well. There are 4 months of the year that you can not ski on Whistler, and for some people (national team,high level athletes etc.) that is to much time without snow. Skiing/Snowboarding, at least in Calgary/area is one of the most popular sports, and the hills are always busy, so you can't say that all ski hills are doing shitty. A place that you can ski year round in Canada will allow for an option for high level/national team athletes to ski/snowboard year round here, instead of going to Australia or Europe in the summer. Stop over exaggerating the facts, It is 3 and a half hours from Calgary.

b_rendAre you kidding me? Whistler makes serious money, is always busy, and does really well. There are 4 months of the year that you can not ski on Whistler, and for some people (national team,high level athletes etc.) that is to much time without snow. Skiing/Snowboarding, at least in Calgary/area is one of the most popular sports, and the hills are always busy, so you can't say that all ski hills are doing shitty. A place that you can ski year round in Canada will allow for an option for high level/national team athletes to ski/snowboard year round here, instead of going to Australia or Europe in the summer. Stop over exaggerating the facts, It is 3 and a half hours from Calgary.

If I have more time later I will try to find sources for you, but intrawest hasn't been making huge profit off whistler for a while now. They sold panorama (the resort you'd have to drive past to get to jumbo) because it wasn't worth it for them anymore.

Revelstoke was supposed to be a huge resort but they developers didn't make any money and gave up. The only reason it still runs is because certain people bought it and understood that the mega resort doesn't work anymore and stopped development.

Kicking horse was supposed to be a big resort but that didn't happen either. They opened more terrain a few years back because after ten years of being in operation they didn't expand anything after all these big plans got scrapped. They opened the terrain out of desperation on a promise to the customers.

The national race team has already been doing their summer training in the glaciers around jumbo/purcells. Why do they need a mega resort to do what they have already been doing?

Calgary is not who jumbo is ment for. If you think calgary can deliver enough skiers to make jumbo viable, you're crazy.

And again, WE DONT WANT IT. The only person who has said they want the damn thin was the Mayor of Radium. He wasnt the mayor for very long after that needless to say. The funny thing is - "they" decided to make him the mayor of Jumbo, a town the doesn't even exist.

There isn't a single thing you can say that will make anyone in the kootenays even consider jumbo as a good idea. It's a horrible, tasteless idea that will never work, and I'd put money on it never happening.

b_rendAre you kidding me? Whistler makes serious money, is always busy, and does really well. There are 4 months of the year that you can not ski on Whistler, and for some people (national team,high level athletes etc.) that is to much time without snow. Skiing/Snowboarding, at least in Calgary/area is one of the most popular sports, and the hills are always busy, so you can't say that all ski hills are doing shitty. A place that you can ski year round in Canada will allow for an option for high level/national team athletes to ski/snowboard year round here, instead of going to Australia or Europe in the summer. Stop over exaggerating the facts, It is 3 and a half hours from Calgary.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread, because it would be beating a dead horse, but now I feel obligated to.

British Columbia, does not need Jumbo and we certainly don't want it. This is our decision, not some Kids from Calgary.

Yes Whistler does well. Well enough indeed that the still only make money half of the year. Yeah you can't ski year round in whistler anymore. Probably has to do with the fact that there isn't a lot of money in year round skiing. The glacier melting isn't helping either. If summer skiing was as popular as you say it is, shouldn't WB have invested all their money in that instead of mountain biking?

You say skiing is super popular in Calgary, which I don't doubt at all. But where do you go skiing? COP, Lake Louise, Sunshine? Probably the more busy operations. How are some of the other resorts doing that are within 4 hours drive of Calgary. Sunshine is doing pretty good, and so is Lake Louise, which is to be expected, big ski hills within a 2 hour shuttle from a national airport in a hugely famous national park. But lets dig a little deeper, how about Kicking Horse? Not doing so hot, struggling to get around a 100 000 skier visits, and pretty much no new infrastructure since it was built. Recently sold to RCR because they were losing money fast.

How about Panorama? Yeah they built a new chair lift, but did it open any new terrain? Nope. Was it just a ploy to create and sell some new real estate to try and generate some more desperately needed money after it was sold from intrawest to a group of local businessmen, possibly.

Fernie is doing pretty well, but it is RCRs baby and they will do everything to keep it relevant and appeal to the Alberta market. To be fair, I don't know much about Fernie mainly because I just don't care. I have friends there, and I've been told it's a cool town with great skiing and awesome snow but I would rather just stay in the west kootenays (don't come here).

Castle did fantastic last winter. They were open for so long, and have amazing infrastructure and amazing avalanche control program. No worries for the future there at all.

Fortress is pretty awesome. If you like a rundown ski hill that is cat skiing only.

So here's my point. It makes no economic sense to build a fucking ski hill in Jumbo when the majority of ski hills within a three hour drive from Calgary are already unique and interesting things to offer to skiing are struggling to keep afloat as is. It won't help bring work to the East Kootenays, it will take money away from towns that are already stretched pretty thin.

The amount of money that is needed to get Jumbo anywhere close to level for it to be open to the public year round would pay for national training in new zealand for a very long time, without the public scrutiny and damage to the environment. If that is your main argument for having a year round resort in Canada, it's a pretty poor one.

And Drail is right, it is closer to 4 hours, 4 and half depending on conditions to get to jumbo. As it's about 30 to an hour past Panorama depending on the condition of the shitty logging road. Take it from someone who has been in the area before.

My last statement on Jumbo, and the ski industry in western Canada will be pretty straight forward. Oberto Oberti is a terrible to this beautiful part of this wonderful country, and should be stopped before he attempts to poison anymore of it.

DrailThere isn't a single thing you can say that will make anyone in the kootenays even consider jumbo as a good idea. It's a horrible, tasteless idea that will never work, and I'd put money on it never happening.

Well fuck I didn't have type out the big response. But as usual Drail is 100% on point.

Anybody that thinks Calgary will drive to ski in the Spring/Summer, just look at how busy SSV is late season. It's not.

as much as I'd love to have a resort like this in canada it's not profitable at all and I don't think it's worth the trouble.

revy is a good example of this. they have plans for a total of 25 lifts over time or some shit like that, yet nobody goes to revelstoke, hence their bragging about never having lift lines. you know why there are never lift lines at revy? cause it appeals to less than 1% of canadians.

FROGGINBULLFISHas much as I'd love to have a resort like this in canada it's not profitable at all and I don't think it's worth the trouble.

revy is a good example of this. they have plans for a total of 25 lifts over time or some shit like that, yet nobody goes to revelstoke, hence their bragging about never having lift lines. you know why there are never lift lines at revy? cause it appeals to less than 1% of canadians.

aw it cut off half my post. but basically less than 10% of all canadians ski or snowboard once or more a year and less than 1% are "regulars". and a small fraction of that 1% enjoy expert or off piste terrain.

jumbo isn't really feasible or worth the damage on the land

schismWell fuck

I honestly don't know why I even botherered after my first reply. It's almost like troll bait at this point.



To put it in perspective:

I DO understand that in BC we have a lot of 'untouched' wilderness. I personally work in forestry and I am not against progress, nor am I ignorant towards smart, sensical development. The whole 'jumbo wild' thing is just a campaign. The fact that 'we' can argue against Jumbo without even touching on the environmental impact, but instead just talk economics and still have a legitimate argument should speak for itself.

As I said, I work in forestry and personally think that the 'not in my backyard' simply because people do t want their region harvested is selfish and not considering the bigger picture. This is why I speak against Jumbo purely from an economic POV. I am pro industry. Hell - i acknowledge the fact that Canada has the resources - to the extreme that I think 'we' should base our entire system on harvesting them and exporting to the world (and get rich as fuck off of it to the point that most of us do t even have to work - global socialism/ we are smart enough as a species so that we don't have to work to define our worth to society. - getting way off topic, I know).


Final statement:

As I said before, if you aren't from here, I don't expect you to understand, I just want you to accept.

A prime exams would be Taliskier, One Wasatch, and everything else that SLC is going through. Sure, purely as a skier from the outside, it would be amazing if all the resorts in the Wasatch Range were connected, but it's not about me. It's about what the people who live there expect and want. They obviously don't want it, I can understand why, and there is no need to go any further.



This year in Canada 'green' industry just surpassed fossil fuels for employment AND economic growth. Yet, everyone is still talking about the tar sands in Alberta. Can we stop concentrating on the 'has been' and start investing in the future? One thing I know for certain is that Jumbo does NOT have the future in mind. In fact, it is literally living in the past, basing its success on the Whistler model which has been proven not to work for about a decade now.


Case study: Whitewater (WH2O). A few years ago. WH2O was bought by some Alberta folk, but instead of trying to make money off of condos and your typical tourists, they put their money towards a new lift that doubled their terrain, doubled their acreage, and simply enhanced the skiing experience for those that ski there. It's only one example of how catering to the skiers and not the rich vacationists works with the current economic situation in North America. It is down right proven fact that in today's market the mega resort doesn't work and it's time to get back to the grass roots. Why do you think Vail Resorts is buying hills in the Midwest and putting them on the epic pass? Why do you think Red Mountain, BC put in a new lift and is very much catered to the advanced skier crowd?

Pre established mega resorts like Whistler are going off of reputation and reputation alone. If Jumbo somehow goes through, it will be a bigger blow to the ski industry than you could ever imagine.


I can confidently say that this is the last I will EVER talk about this subject and if a thread about Jumbo ever comes up again I will simply refer to the multiple threads already in existence. If you genuinely want to discuss further, please PM me and I will (obviously) be very willing to go into detail about the matter.


All that hostility aside - if you find yourself in the west kootenays and want to go for a tour - I'll gladly show you the goods. After all, we are skiers, and that's something we can all get behind.

*disclaimer*. Yea, after reading that last rant. Yes - I am obviously really drunk and should probably not be on NS. But fuck it. It's my birthday tomorrow, so... Fuck it

DrailReally though, it's quite simple. There are 7 ski resorts in the kootenays. None of them are thriving, most are struggling to stay afloat. Supply/demand. If jumbo happens, it's going to hurt the region, not help it.

*DING DING DING* Think about it, would you rather have Revy, Kicking Horse, Fernie, Whitewater, and Red Mountain build their master plans or another half-baked mega resort in the are.

Look for yourself, BC isn't running out of terrain at it's existing resorts.

Revelstoke

Red Mountain

WH20