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Jump Size Limit?

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steeze4days
Posts: 358 - Karma: 1,948
Seeing the JOI practice runs recently, im pretty sure no one can argue that it's an absolute monster of a jump, and Jon is always saying how he wants it to be bigger and better every year, so a thought came to me, and it was:

Is there an actual limit to how big of a jump you can actually make out of snow?

Been thinking about this and cant really come to a conclusion, what do ya'll think?
Apr 18 2015 8:08AM
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Elg
Posts: 2998 - Karma: 3,880
The jump can be as big as you want, speed is the issue. And balls
Apr 18 2015 9:00AM
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Pac2
Posts: 794 - Karma: 2,859
steeze4daysSeeing the JOI practice runs recently, im pretty sure no one can argue that it's an absolute monster of a jump, and Jon is always saying how he wants it to be bigger and better every year, so a thought came to me, and it was:

Is there an actual limit to how big of a jump you can actually make out of snow?

Been thinking about this and cant really come to a conclusion, what do ya'll think?

I'd say after candide breaking his back on a 140 foot jump that that's probably the limit. Because yes you could get the speed to hit that on a fast day but anything significantly past that I really don't know if it's possible. If you think about it there is a point where you can't go any faster because you are going your max speed and if you've seen the big Bertha jump he hit and how fast he was coming in to it, he was going fast, definetly not fast enough to clear a jump that big but if he can't clear big Bertha with that amount of speed idk if a jump much bigger would be possible.
Apr 18 2015 9:32AM
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The.Fish
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 4,985
Park skis with race wax? The two sides will have to join in order to jump anything bigger.
Apr 18 2015 10:33AM
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Mr.noodle
Posts: 1361 - Karma: 4,650
People send it pretty big in Olympic ski jumping
Apr 18 2015 1:02PM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
cjt121099Park skis with race wax? The two sides will have to join in order to jump anything bigger.


Park skis with race wax happened a long time ago.
Apr 18 2015 1:59PM
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pattyeiks
Posts: 262 - Karma: 852
cjt121099Park skis with race wax? The two sides will have to join in order to jump anything bigger.


Or bombing miles and miles
Apr 18 2015 2:04PM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
HoltePark skis with race wax happened a long time ago.

Nordica ace of spades Ti.

The real question is what will the laws of physics will allow? I'm not physicist so I can't answer that question.
Apr 18 2015 3:17PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
pattyeiksOr bombing miles and miles


you really only need like 400 feet of vert to hit 60-70 sitting down if it's a steep hill. It's really hard to go any faster than that without a racing suit. going miles wouldn't make you go any faster because of air resistance. Did some calculations with basic projectile motion: If someone could hit 75 miles per hour and still be going 55-60 at the take off of a 30 degree lip they would go 175 to 208.6 feet (ignoring air resistance).

I'd say that it's safe to settle on 200 feet as the biggest table top jump possible. I would not dare to hit that, if anyone did there would have to be a radar gun telling them if they had enough speed or not. Then if you get a gust of wind, game over, it's 30 feet to flat.
Apr 18 2015 4:04PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,426
It really comes down to what people want to hit. Jumps in the park have gotten larger but a lot of the big post season photoshoot stuff has gotten smaller imo. There was a trend of building things as big as possible so it was sketchy just to clear it. Now everyone wants things they can trip or dub off. Sure there are still 80-100' booters getting built, but I haven't really seen that much beyond that in recent years.

IT depends where the sport goes. You could def build a jump bigger than anything before, and clear it, but would anybody want to hit it enough to justify building it, and is it really worth risking your season, maybe your life just to go that far.

Jump building is pretty fucking dialed right now though. MOST of the people finally know what the hell they're doing. Still far too many places building god knows what, but any of the heavy hitters and park building companies have been dialed for years.


#gottagobig
Apr 18 2015 5:29PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
There is a limit to the size of a jump you can build due to the speed required to hit it. When you hit a jump at say 160 feet you will probably be taking off at close to 100 mph.... At this point you become a skydiver. Your body position will drastically affect your position in the air due to wind resistance, your drag coefficient, and your ability to land on the landing hill. It's all physics.
Apr 18 2015 5:44PM
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r._ed
Posts: 234 - Karma: 855
I was thinking this exact same question. There is defiantly a limit to the size of jumps built in a park situation as speed is a limiting factor. But how about jumps built in the backcountry, on top of cliffs to give the jumps height rather than length? Red Bulls Swatch Skiers Cup is already headed this direction.
Apr 18 2015 6:20PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
MikeWeinerONEWhen you hit a jump at say 160 feet you will probably be taking off at close to 100 mph....


if you were taking off at 100mph at 45 degrees you would go 669 feet- that's for a tabletop. Almost no jumps have takeoffs that steep and if one did based on how long the transition is you would need to exceed terminal velocity on the inrun which really isn't possible. A well made 160ft jump would have a takeoff speed of about 50. The 120ft chairlift gap jump in less had a low takeoff angle and huge lip which is why they had to go 60mph into it.

your point about wind/air resistance messing with your body is completely valid and it definitely makes sense at hit speeds but 100mph is ridiculously fast.

here's a 187 foot jump with a terrible song just to prove that stupidly huge jumps are possible, dude must've been going 70.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/767349/Insane-Snowboard-Jump-by-Kazuhiro-Kokubo
Apr 18 2015 6:22PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
First off you're wrong. Have you ever built a jump or hit one that big??

Mike Wilson hit a 165 foot jump back in the day (look it up on youtube) and he didn't make the landing. It started at 185 feet and he made them shorten it because he knew it wasn't possible with what they were working with. He hit it close to 100 mph. To build a jump that big you need several things. First you need an out. The snowmachine that will be required to tow you in to match speed will need an outrun, the skier/snowboarder will need a way out if the speed isn't right (an error Wilson made when he came up short and knew he was going to) and a narrow jump in order to not hit it if everything isn't right.

I don't know where you got your calculations from, but they are inaccurate. I've spent a lot of time going over this with Wilson and how to do it properly, and it's all physics. High speeds are required, and without skydiving or air tunnel awareness it would not end up well. No 160 foot jump would require 50mph ha, if it was that easy people would be hitting those jumps all the time.

PM me if you would like more information on building jumps that large, but I hope nobody heeds your advice because hitting a 160 foot jump at 50mph would definitely end your season.



john18061806if you were taking off at 100mph at 45 degrees you would go 669 feet- that's for a tabletop. Almost no jumps have takeoffs that steep and if one did based on how long the transition is you would need to exceed terminal velocity on the inrun which really isn't possible. A well made 160ft jump would have a takeoff speed of about 50. The 120ft chairlift gap jump in less had a low takeoff angle and huge lip which is why they had to go 60mph into it.

your point about wind/air resistance messing with your body is completely valid and it definitely makes sense at hit speeds but 100mph is ridiculously fast.

here's a 187 foot jump with a terrible song just to prove that stupidly huge jumps are possible, dude must've been going 70.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/767349/Insane-Snowboard-Jump-by-Kazuhiro-Kokubo
Apr 18 2015 7:09PM
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bedin
Posts: 482 - Karma: 1,972
As long as the angles line up so there isn't too much impact as big as someone can get the speed for.
Apr 19 2015 1:49PM
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realbigga
Posts: 49 - Karma: 123
MikeWeinerONEhitting a 160 foot jump at 50mph would definitely end your season.

.....and your life.
Apr 19 2015 8:59PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9327 - Karma: 17,742
john18061806if you were taking off at 100mph at 45 degrees you would go 669 feet- that's for a tabletop. Almost no jumps have takeoffs that steep and if one did based on how long the transition is you would need to exceed terminal velocity on the inrun which really isn't possible. A well made 160ft jump would have a takeoff speed of about 50. The 120ft chairlift gap jump in less had a low takeoff angle and huge lip which is why they had to go 60mph into it.

your point about wind/air resistance messing with your body is completely valid and it definitely makes sense at hit speeds but 100mph is ridiculously fast.

here's a 187 foot jump with a terrible song just to prove that stupidly huge jumps are possible, dude must've been going 70.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/767349/Insane-Snowboard-Jump-by-Kazuhiro-Kokubo



My lord that jump is bigger than my fucking mountain.
Apr 19 2015 9:30PM
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nochill
Posts: 144 - Karma: 624
build a mile long jump. go at the speed of light at it. go off said mile long jump. future spin. profit??????
Apr 19 2015 9:48PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
The problem is, all you chuckleheads are thinking of gap jumps or table top jumps.


All a builder has to do is make a step down jump that has a 10ft gap to clear, with a 500 ft long steep landing. It wouldnt even require much speed to go 200+ feet.


The only reason to have a gap is if you are building on flat ground.
Apr 19 2015 10:11PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5206 - Karma: 20,187
john18061806if you were taking off at 100mph at 45 degrees you would go 669 feet- that's for a tabletop. Almost no jumps have takeoffs that steep and if one did based on how long the transition is you would need to exceed terminal velocity on the inrun which really isn't possible. A well made 160ft jump would have a takeoff speed of about 50. The 120ft chairlift gap jump in less had a low takeoff angle and huge lip which is why they had to go 60mph into it.

your point about wind/air resistance messing with your body is completely valid and it definitely makes sense at hit speeds but 100mph is ridiculously fast.

here's a 187 foot jump with a terrible song just to prove that stupidly huge jumps are possible, dude must've been going 70.

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/767349/Insane-Snowboard-Jump-by-Kazuhiro-Kokubo




tanner cased chads gap at 55 mph, and chads is only like 115 feet. 100mph is fast af but theres a reason racers never pop off rollers, you slow down a shitload in the air, especially wearing a bunch of baggy clothing.
Apr 19 2015 10:28PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,426
californiagrownThe problem is, all you chuckleheads are thinking of gap jumps or table top jumps.


All a builder has to do is make a step down jump that has a 10ft gap to clear, with a 500 ft long steep landing. It wouldnt even require much speed to go 200+ feet.


The only reason to have a gap is if you are building on flat ground.


Going 200 feet on a super long hill isn't the same as hitting a 200 foot jump. The same way if you take a 60' to knuckle jump 85 you aren't hitting an 85 foot jump. If the jump has a 10' gap and a super steep long landing, you're just massively overshooting a 10' jump.

I mean I guess in terms of records it's how far you actually travel, but the knuckle is what makes the big jumps so serious. Land in the sweet spot, you're probably good, come up a foot or more short and you're going to be hurting.

Also for you're idea it would probably best to bring a parachute just in case you go in too hot and literally jump off the mountain.
Apr 19 2015 10:30PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
californiagrownAll a builder has to do is make a step down jump that has a 10ft gap to clear, with a 500 ft long steep landing. It wouldnt even require much speed to go 200+ feet.

This has already been done. Multiple times and in multiple places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XeEQfoIelU
Apr 19 2015 10:36PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
john18061806https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XeEQfoIelU

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/767479/Peter-Prevc-250-m---Vikersund-2015-OLD-World-Record---Amazing---HD
I'm must embed.
Apr 19 2015 10:39PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
theabortionatorGoing 200 feet on a super long hill isn't the same as hitting a 200 foot jump. The same way if you take a 60' to knuckle jump 85 you aren't hitting an 85 foot jump. If the jump has a 10' gap and a super steep long landing, you're just massively overshooting a 10' jump.

I mean I guess in terms of records it's how far you actually travel, but the knuckle is what makes the big jumps so serious. Land in the sweet spot, you're probably good, come up a foot or more short and you're going to be hurting.

Also for you're idea it would probably best to bring a parachute just in case you go in too hot and literally jump off the mountain.


i get what you are saying, but it is purely semantics. I thought we were talking about the size of jumps, you are talking about the size of jump that appears in text.

which ia a bigger jump: a 65 foot step over that has a gucci plateau at 85, or a ski jumping step down jump that has a sweet spot out to 250'? You say the stepover i say the one you can go the biggest.

john18061806This has already been done. Multiple times and in multiple places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XeEQfoIelU


omg they totally copied my idea!
Apr 19 2015 10:51PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
californiagrownwhich ia a bigger jump: a 65 foot step over that has a gucci plateau at 85, or a ski jumping step down jump that has a sweet spot out to 250'? You say the stepover i say the one you can go the biggest.


we have to agree on the prerequisite that the jump has to be trickable and safe. your landing speed is a lot lower on a step over jump and you're coming down much softer than on a ski jump. also 250 meters is 820.21 feet.
Apr 19 2015 10:56PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
john18061806we have to agree on the prerequisite that the jump has to be trickable and safe. your landing speed is a lot lower on a step over jump and you're coming down much softer than on a ski jump. also 250 meters is 820.21 feet.


cliff type step downs are trickable, and if the landing is steep enough, relatively safe... as long as you dont get high-sided haha.

and sweet metric conversion that had nothing to do with anything i said.
Apr 19 2015 11:02PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
californiagrownand sweet metric conversion that had nothing to do with anything i said.


coincidences had everything to do with what you said.

250 meter ski jump

250' ski jump reference (I've attended an event at a ski jump that size)

Apr 19 2015 11:11PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
john18061806coincidences had everything to do with what you said.

250 meter ski jump

250' ski jump reference (I've attended an event at a ski jump that size)



You inferred something i did not imply and as a result of your assumption you made an ass out of you and me.
Apr 19 2015 11:16PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6601 - Karma: 59,660
Just an idea but what about getting pulled in by a snowmobile? Sleds are getting faster and faster these days So that could possibly compensate for the wind resistance. Could give you that slingshot effect. Or rocket skis.
Apr 19 2015 11:39PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
californiagrownyou made an ass out of you and me.


heh heh we r anuses now poopy butt Loled h4rd
Apr 20 2015 12:02AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51261 - Karma: 157,426
Dirt bikes have gone 300+ feet so I think a person could get 200+ on skis or a board easily. Gauging the speed perfect maybe not but it's doable. If you can't get enough speed or don't have a big enough hill tow that shit.
Apr 20 2015 12:15AM
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Yaraelpoof.png
Posts: 1556 - Karma: 6,417
Dude like 16 ft
Apr 20 2015 11:30AM
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