Greeks of NS

Peter.nice, i was at Villanova. I was pulling for you guys in the NCAA tourney

HamFaceGirlAny SigEps on here?
VDBL Baby

HamFaceGirlAnd as far as my argument for this subject, greek life is fun plainly put. I have a sick house of 80 guys that I'm happy to call my friends, as well as 15-20 I call my closest friends I've made at college. Taking today and yesterday as examples, they were the first two nice days of spring, and there were my brothers, 75+ girls on my front lawn, playing pong, throwing the football, relaxing and everyone having a blast. On top of that, parties are insane. We are lucky enough to have a sick house on campus in a good location, and I can always count on parties every weekend night, as well as week ones when I finish my work. I go to a school where greek life is huge, and unfortunately if you are not a part of it you miss out on 95% of the college experience. Yeah I get my stuff done and school is my main priority, but no other time in life am I going to be able to walk into my basement on a given night and have 150+ girls and my closest friends having a blast. Unreal experience. If you have the chance, give a shot. Everyone hating on it knows on the inside they want to be in it anyway

RedPandaThat sounds.. awesome. I've always had somewhat of a negative opinion of frats but the more I hear and read from people who are actually in them, and not just people blindly hating on them, the more I want to join one when I go to college next year.

RedPandaThat sounds.. awesome. I've always had somewhat of a negative opinion of frats but the more I hear and read from people who are actually in them, and not just people blindly hating on them, the more I want to join one when I go to college next year.

shocker611It seems fun at first, I'm not gonna lie. I would encourage you to go to the parties of rush week as they really can be a good time. With that said, there is a TON of fucked up shit that goes on in greek houses that stays behind closed doors for the most part. I had a good time during rush week, was thinking about rushing, then showed up to a frat house one night for a party (with 11 girls and 2 guys (me and my friend)). When we got there, the guys at the door ushered in the girls we were with and as we tried to walk in pushed us out the door. One of the guys at the door then said "don't worry, we'll take REALLLL good care of them", laughed, then told one of his bros to go get em all some booze. Luckily the girls weren't down with getting drugged and raped so they told em to fuck off and left with us.

I also know a girl who got fed shots all night one night, blacked out, and got fucked by (legitimately) 4 guys in the frat. They then told her to get lost in the morning and that she wasn't allowed coming back into the frat house because she was a liability and a whore. I have heard members of that frat bragging about the night because a bunch of them watched each other "give it to her".

I have also been threatened to "get my ass beat" if I didn't get out of a frat house after trying to retrieve a drunk friend who said she felt uncomfortable inside the house.

You WILL become numb to sexual violence in 90+% of frats. There's a reason the rate of sexual assault is so high and so many frats still refuse to partake in sexual assault prevention programs.

HamFaceGirlMost generalized bullshit statement I ever heard. Not even gonna argue with that

shocker611How the fuck can you say its generalized? I made it very clear that this was MY OWN EXPERIENCE. With that said, when these things occur with 3 different frats at a single university (one with a relatively small greek life), you can damn sure make the assumption that it is happening at others. I have friends that go to other schools that have told very similar stories and I know of plenty more that I could tell as well.

Study after study has found that the rate of sexual assault is significantly higher within fraternities, this isn't a point that can be argued, however it is a point that can be changed. Unfortunately, talk to any sexual wellness advocacy program in the US and they will tell you that it is EXTREMELY difficult to get fraternities to sign up for their programs and that denial by fraternities that there is even an issue is extremely common.

shocker611How the fuck can you say its generalized? I made it very clear that this was MY OWN EXPERIENCE. With that said, when these things occur with 3 different frats at a single university (one with a relatively small greek life), you can damn sure make the assumption that it is happening at others. I have friends that go to other schools that have told very similar stories and I know of plenty more that I could tell as well.

Study after study has found that the rate of sexual assault is significantly higher within fraternities, this isn't a point that can be argued, however it is a point that can be changed. Unfortunately, talk to any sexual wellness advocacy program in the US and they will tell you that it is EXTREMELY difficult to get fraternities to sign up for their programs and that denial by fraternities that there is even an issue is extremely common.

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shotvetbecause roofies...

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californiagrownYou actually made it clear you were talking about 90% of fraternities. Full stop.

Also, sexual assualt speakers were like 50%+ of the social programming that most frats at my school had to go to. Seriously, maybe the reason its so hard to speak to frats is because there is a waitlist 2 years long haha. From my interaction regionally with frats and sororities i feel comfortable saying that there is an abundance of rape education programs... along with drinking and hazing programs. how seriously they are taken varies.

Also, if you need to get a friend out of a house, go up to the door and explain yourself. If they tell you to fuck off, tell them you will be calling the police. They will immediately get her and kick her out. They just don't want a random dude crashing their party. Is it really that difficult to understand?

shocker611You think I didn't try that? How well do you think that would work? Uh yes, hello kind sir, I have a friend, "Kelly", who feels very uncomfortable in your house. Oh, you don't know who that is? Okay, can I come in and grab her? No? Alright great.

californiagrowndid you tell them you were calling the cops and get out your phone and start dialing 911?

Look, they don't know if you are telling the truth, or are some random dude looking for an easy way to get into the party. Why should they let some uninvited, unwanted random dude start banging on doors within their house because his drunkass thinks that a girl who friendzoned him "is in trouble"?

Its a shitty situation on all sides. If you were truly worried, you would have gotten the cops involved and everything would have worked out.


Curiously, what did come of that situation?

TeafastPeople that complain about frats are almost always more annoying than people in frats

shocker611Her (female) friends ended up coming and getting her. I love how you assumed I was "friendzoned". Yes, I have female friends, that I care about (and for some, crazy reason don't want to see get taken advantage of by some frat stars, imagine that), and that I don't bang. If that makes me "loser", maybe I should have joined a frat so I could "bang out some more hot pussy bro".

Shit, they could have followed me through the party if they actually gave two shits about the well being of a female inside of their house. And if I remember right the party was actually winding down because it got shut down by the cops (the cops at our university are super strict on registered parties, usually shutting em down at like midnight).

Also, no, I did not threaten to call the cops. I understand that that was likely the best way to handle it if I was truly scared, but I was underage at the time and those were likely the last people I wanted to talk to at the time.

californiagrownFirst, i have a few different girls that i am very close friends with. Doesnt mean that i dont want to fuck them. Im a horny guy. I wanna fuck everything that is remotley attractive, and if we click personality wise, doubly-so, but sometimes it just doesnt work out. No shame in that. But at the same time i dont act like i am their boyfriend- they can fuck who they want, when they want, and shouldnt be relying on me to come running at their beck and call, which is what this situation sounds like.

Second, you want these guys to go out of their way and start banging on doors in the frat for some random kid who is very drunk, likely underage, not invited, and could be mistaking this frat for any of the other ones with greek letters(this happens fucking constantly btw)? Why are you so special? Blame the guy not letting her leave, not the guys manning the door. especially if they werent letting in an underage random immediatley after the cops rolled through to shut the party down. Get some common sense and try to see it from their shoes.

Third, you are either a shit friend, or not that worried about her. if you reread your last paragraph IDK how you cannot come to that same conclusion.

boozerthis comparison may seem a bit extreme but stereotyping greeks based on statistics and rumors and the media is the same as stereotyping any other group of people. if what you guys are saying about greek life is true then every middle eastern is a terrorist, every african american male is a criminal, every skier is spoiled rich kid, and every telemarker is a gaper asshole.... k maybe that last one is true but I hope you get my point

shocker611I called her friends, hung out outside of the frat and waited for them to get there, explained the situation, and left once I knew everything was chill. You are correct, perhaps I should have called the cops, but at that age that wasn't really something that seemed plausible, even if it was likely the best option. I guess looking out for someone in a bad situation is only the thing to do if they are your girlfriend? Sounds like a GREAT friend to me!

I sound like a shit friend? You literally just said not to worry about a fucked up friend because "they can do/fuck what/who they want". Sounds like you don't give a shit. And just to clarify, I would have no interest in fucking this chick. I wasn't that attracted to her, but she is an absolute homie that I would certainly want to look out for. In addition, I wasn't that drunk.

I get it from the frats perspective. I used to live in a house with 5 other guys, about as close to a "frat" house as you can get without being a douche about letting people into our parties and having a sole mission of fucking as many girls as possible. I can tell you for a fact that if a guy came to our door at one of our parties and told us he wanted to look for a friend to get her out of there because she was too drunk, I would HELP the kid find his friend and get her out. I wouldn't LET one of my guy friends take advantage of a chick if she is that intoxicated (not that they would anyways, because I don't hang out with complete D-BAGS).

Listen man, at the end of the day, I have seen/heard enough stories from the frats at my school, and others, that I do not have the best perception of them. I have had friends in frats, I have hung out at frats, and I can say that I would be fine with my sister partying in a couple of frats. With that said, there is a culture that I personally don't think is beneficial to young, immature, horny guys that are out on their own for the first time of their life. I think it a lot of times puts guys into a culture that they don't have the "willpower" to handle and they end up doing things that I think they would never do outside of that culture. Can you be a great guy within a frat? Yes. Do I think it really adds much value compared to the negative aspects? No.

shocker611No-one is saying EVERY frat boy is a douchebag rapist. What they are saying is that there is a higher likelihood of a frat boy being a douchebag, and a higher likelihood of them committing sexual assault (this HAS been proven). You COULD say the same thing about many of those things you said. Yes, black males have a very high crime rate compared to other races. That doesn't mean every black man is a criminal. Yes, there are more "religious extremists" within the Islamic religion. That doesn't mean every Muslim wants to commit an act of terror. These percentages tell me that if I go to Syria, walk around in an American flag t-shirt all day, that there is a high likelihood that I am going to get kidnapped and killed. Yes, skiers are more privileged than the average person, and perhaps this means that we have a higher percentage of spoiled rich kids, that doesn't mean every one of us is a spoiled rich kid. ETC. THAT IS THE POINT OF STATISTICS AND PERCENTAGES. It gives you a picture of a subset of a data set. It doesn't give you every piece of information about every member of that dataset.

Dumb point was dumb.

californiagrownThey have data saying that sexual encounters in the greek community are more likely to be rape than sexual encounters outside of it?

Or do they have data saying that rape is more likely to occur in the greek community? Just like STDs are more prevalent in the greek community. AKA greek life is much more sexualized?

shocker611They have data saying that men in fraternities are 3x more likely to commit a sexual assault then men of the same age and college.

They also have data saying that sorority girls are something like 70% more likely than their non-sorority counterparts to be sexually assaulted in college.

I can find the studies for you.

Another part of the issue is that greek life is even going so far to currently be attempting to make it harder for universities to investigate sexual assaults on campus.

californiagrownWas a guy physically not letting her leave? WHY THE FUCK DIDNT YOU CALL THE COPS!!!!

californiagrownYou do understand the difference between the two types of studies i was referring to, correct?

shocker611No, I don't mean to make it sound like that. From what I remember (this was freshman year mind you), I got a call after I got back to my dorm from this girl saying that I needed to come get her because she was hammered (which was obvious) and needed to go home. I got there to try to grab her, and she didn't pick up her phone. Called one of her other friends (who was one of the girls that ended up grabbing her) who had left early in the night and she said that the last time she saw her she was upstairs (always bad news) drinking with some of the guys and didn't want to leave. I told the guy at the door something along the lines of "my friend just called and said that she needed me to walk her home and I can't get ahold of her, could I please walk through and try to find her", to which I got some sort of a "fuck no, I'm sure she is fine". To me, that is fucked up, and I can tell you I would never "look out for my bro's" by not allowing some girls friend to come grab her out of my house because she was too drunk to be in a household full of horny, 19 year old guys.

shocker611Sorry I jumped to a conclusion as to what you were asking. They have data saying that, standardizing for age, college, etc., that men were 3x more likely to sexually assault someone. Whether that was rape or any other form of sexual assault, frankly, doesn't matter.

californiagrownSeems like you are blaming the Frat for your friend being a fucking idiot.she created the problem to begin with, exacerbated the problem, brought you into the problem, Made it impossible for you to help the problem and you go ahead and blame the frat.

Again, you expect them to start banging on doors, ineruppting sex, sleep, and whatever else because some random, drunk kid who theyve never seen says his friend might be in there? Get real.


My point is this: the more sex you have, the greater the chance that something goes wrong. I have slept with many girls who were drunk, i think everyone who has taken girls home(or got taken home) from a bar has. Every single one of those times that was rape. By the letter of the law, it was rape. Now, if a girl cried rape because she got laughed at leaving the frat house the next morning, or just plain regretted it and felt used, i would have no defense. Doesnt matter that she wanted to fuck the night before...badly. the fact that she was drunk absolves her of all ability to consent. Even your GF, if she is drunk and you fuck, can charge you with rape, and you are guilty.

When you are very used to drunk sex being normal, you stop thinking that the other person could consider it rape, even though they are jumping your bones that night.

The more sex you have the greater the chance you will be accused of rape. Bros tend to have many more partners during their college years than their non greek counterparts. this could explain the statistics you offered.

shocker611From what it sounds like you are the exact issue. Unless you were also black out drunk, and you took a hammered girl home from a bar and fucked her, THAT IS RAPE. You took advantage of someone that was in a significantly more inebriated state than yourself for sex. What else would you call that?

Yes, I have taken girls home from the bar, however they were not more drunk than I was, and I was not taking advantage of them. Shit, I lost my virginity to a sober girl while I was literally slipping in and out of consciousness drunk. THAT WAS ALSO RAPE. Did I call the cops or get her in trouble? No. Could I, and would I have been perfectly justified in doing so? Absolutely. She took advantage of someone in a compromised state to get off. This also wasn't the only time this has happened. Now, I take full responsibility for putting myself in these positions, but girls have every right not to take responsibility and to put the blame on the guys taking advantage of them. This is also an issue with the sororities as they encourage girls not to report (I also have talked to many sorority girls that have had this issue, so this is likely even DECREASING the amount of sexual assaults within greek systems that I talked about earlier).

What you just described is the exact issue that I have with frats. You think that getting a girl blackout drunk and her grabbing your dick while shes fucked up gives you every right to fuck her. That's not how shit should work. This is exactly what I am talking about when I say frat guys are desensitized to sexual assault. The reason girls leave frats feeling like shit is because they are being taken advantage of! Its insane to me that you think that is okay. Why are frat guys laughing at girls leaving the frat houses in the first place? YOU AND YOUR BROTHERS ARE DOUCHES. Laughing at girls as they leave your house because they got too drunk the night before and got taken advantage of by your bro's is not cool, that is literally the definition of a DOUCHE, and it is exactly why I would not want my friend passed out drunk in a frat house.

Simply saying "we have more sex, so of course there's more rapes" is an absolute joke. You can have tons of consensual sex, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That still doesn't give you the right to take advantage of someone, not even once. I have had plenty of sex, and can say for a fact that I could never get successfully charged for rape in any of those cases. It sounds like you couldn't say the same.

californiagrownI hate to break it to you bud, but you have raped girls as well... going by the letter of the law. It's a fact. the girl is unable to consent when drunk, no matter how drunk you are as well. She doesnt even have to be shitfaced, hell she doesnt even have to be drunk, just buzzed enough to have her inhibitions artificially lowered.


But hey, you keep riding that high horse and looking down on everyone else. Fucking hypocrite.

shocker611We're not going by the letter of the law asshole. And even if we were, you CAN still give consent while you are drunk. There isn't a clear "well, you had two shots, so now you can't give consent!". It's the difference between taking advantage of someone or not. If you fuck a girl while she's next to unconscious, you are raping her. I can tell you for a fact I have never done that. It sounds like you don't think there is anything wrong with that, and I think that makes you the exact definition of the fratty douchebag that I had described earlier. Sorry, maybe you should try not assaulting people and then "laughing at them as they leave".

californiagrownwhere did i even remotely imply anything you are attributing to me? lol Go back an read what i have written haha.

And yes, when it comes to rape, all you have to go on is the letter of the law. Otherwise you are rolling the dice with a girl. If her inhibitions have been altered by drugs or alcohol, she can successfully claim you raped her. fucked up, i know.

this is something you learn in the greek community. Maybe you should have attended some of those sexual assault programs so you could become familiar with what constitutes sexual assault.



And seeing a girl/guy on a very obvious walk of shame is something that literally everyone from all walks of life will chuckle at. If someone laughs out loud at them, its a little fucked up to embarass them, but thats all it is. Not rationale for a rape allegation.

californiagrownwhere did i even remotely imply anything you are attributing to me? lol Go back an read what i have written haha.

And yes, when it comes to rape, all you have to go on is the letter of the law. Otherwise you are rolling the dice with a girl. If her inhibitions have been altered by drugs or alcohol, she can successfully claim you raped her. fucked up, i know.

this is something you learn in the greek community. Maybe you should have attended some of those sexual assault programs so you could become familiar with what constitutes sexual assault.



And seeing a girl/guy on a very obvious walk of shame is something that literally everyone from all walks of life will chuckle at. If someone laughs out loud at them, its a little fucked up to embarass them, but thats all it is. Not rationale for a rape allegation.

shocker611You can, by law, give consent while impaired, TO A CERTAIN POINT. I used to work for the university and had to go through a ton of sexual wellness training as part of my job, so yes, I have been through plenty of it. Obviously you should have been paying a little bit more attention, because there is not a single law nationwide that says that a single shot/beer/whatever means that a person cannot give consent. They all say that there is a certain line that is crossed where someone goes from "I'm drunk" to "I can't control my actions" which is the line between drunken sex and rape. If you can find a single law in the US that disproves me, I am more than happy to see it, because from everything I have seen it is pretty consistent that you can still give consent while you are drunk.

shocker611And also, if someone wakes up in the morning completely ashamed and embarrassed about what happened, then they were obviously not sober enough to give informed consent to have sex. You are literally laughing at someone who just got sexually assaulted. It's not a little bit of embarrassment, its you normalizing sexual assault and thinking it is funny. Me and a girl coming out of our room in the morning after a long night of banging and my roommates jabbing at us for the night before, while we both smile and laugh together about the fun night we had, is perfectly normal. THAT, is okay. Laughing at a girl trying to hide her face and run out of a frat house after a rough night is NOT okay, that is humiliating a girl that has obviously just went through something that she obviously is not comfortable with.

I honestly can't believe I am preaching like this, as I'm usually not the one doing this. I have had friends get false rape allegations in the past that have had huge impacts on their lives. You're just absolutely bringing it out of me. The fact that you think this is perfectly normal and okay is a problem, and if you don't see that then you are proving what everyone already thinks about greek culture.

californiagrownthen you also know that consent is invalid if the girl is drunk. Not just sloppy drunk, but normal, functional, socially drunk too.

You can try to justify your actions all you want, but you have by definition raped girls. That definition sucks.



You seem to have inferred (not from anything ive said, other than i was in a frat) that i rape blacked out drunk girls, and fully condone it. All i have ever said is that i have slept with drunk girls. you said you have as well. you then proceeded to call me a rapist, but yourself a beacon of chivalry.

Your judmental, hateful type of personality will catch up with you one day. Unless you are doing this all for show, cause its the internets.

shocker611Dude. There is not a single state, province in Canada, or whatever other law you want to consider that says that all consent goes out the window as soon as someone has a drink. You're full of it, and you don't know the law. If you want to find somewhere a law that says "if person X has a single drink, they cannot consent to sexual intercourse", then I will apologize wholeheartedly for my ignorance. With this said, I am quite confident this does not exist.

I also don't mean to call you a rapist. I don't think you are. With that said, if a girl is leaving your frat house in the morning, ashamed and embarrassed and is just trying to sneak out of there, then there was likely something done that is not okay. The fact that you think it is normal to then laugh at them as they leave humiliated, is also not okay. If someone was drunk enough the night before that they feel absolutely decimated by the fact that they had sex with you last night (to the point that they are willing to consider rape charges - something they know will ruin your life) while you stand there triumphantly and bask in your great feat, then there is an issue. I am hoping that this has not been the case with you, but it sounds like at the very least it has been a case in your frat, and it seems like you don't think there is anything wrong with that, which I (personally) think is wrong.

I'm not trying to preach to you or tell you that I am any better of a person than you. I'm just investigating the possibility that you are desensitized to sexual violence from the culture you have been in for the past couple of years, and supporting my point that I think that frats are unhealthy for sensitive, horny, very little life experienced 19 year olds.

And yes, believe it or not, I have a degree, and am in the process of getting two more.

californiagrownagain. I said drunk. not one drink.

You literally said that i was a rapist. In this thread... and a totally unrelated thread in which i offered you helpful advice.

Do you know what a walk of shame is? Because based on what you are writing, i don't think you do.

You literally said that i am the kind of douchebag that you hate. I am years out of college. Nor was i in a typical frat.

your bias paints everything you read and you have no ability to be objective. I always thought the people preaching that a college degree is overrated were wrong... you are making me rethink that stance. Thank god you wont be out in the real world for a while, you still have a lot to learn.

Troy.Its also worth noting, Fraternities in Southern schools versus non-Southern schools.

shocker611I literally gave you scenarios and said if you have had sex with a blackout girl while you were decently sober, that is rape. I didn't say that you had done that. I also thought that a winky face was an obvious sign of sarcasm like the one in the other thread, but I guess sarcasm doesn't come off well through a computer. and yes, if you and your bros are laughing at a chick as she runs out of your frat house, you are a douchebag. I will 100% stand behind that comment.

californiagrownat least youre back tracking from the unwarranted personal attacks, i guess.

I didnt know rape was such a joking matter to you.

Seeing a girls with really bad bed hair, smeared makeup, wearing a sequin dress and holding some 6 inch heels hungoverly walk down the stairs at 10am while shielding here eyes from the sun is a pretty funny sight. you dont think so? I think male or female, looking haggard as fuck the morning after and still wearing last nights "peacock clothes" is a funny sight. So do you. you just want to seem above it all in this hypothetical internet -created situation.

shocker611I'm done with the argument. Were both taking small pieces of each other's arguments and ignoring everything we don't like of don't have a comeback for, so it's not worth continuing the pissing match. At the end of the day, a 300% increase in sexual assault is something that I don't think is a good thing. And that was the initial reason for my post, to make sure that the kid knew what he was getting himself into. He may end up picking a frat that respects the women that come through their house, but he needs to know that statistically speaking he has a significantly higher chance of being involved in a sexual assault in college if he joins a frat. That was all I was trying to say.