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JenniferGarnerRight, all cops are doing it for the betterment of their community... yes, none of them are doing it for the full medical coverage or for their ridiculous pension plans that bankrupt small towns, or because its the highest paid job they can get straight out of highschool.
Whenever someone says cops are underpaid, I laugh at them and tell them to look up how an officer's pension plan is worked out. I also laugh when they say they're risking their lives everyday like its Iraq. Most officers go their whole careers without firing a single shot and most officers are making 60-80k a year on pension plans by working special jobs like construction zones "controlling traffic" and overtime for two hard years... since pensions are determined on their two highest paid years. I personally know a police chief in a very small town who retired in his 50s and makes 120k a year on his pension.
Its also funny to see that most incidents where an officer kills an unarmed citizen because he "feared for his life" are in suburban areas with very low crime rates and almost always involves a minority.
I don't get why this site is full of kids who support the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality... then again they're all white, middle class boys who have never encountered a person of color who has had to deal with all the bullshit that comes with having a darker skin color.
.MASSHOLE.So, these cops making about average wage comparative to the rest of the country. But, as you said, pensions are a fickle thing. However, a quick google search will reveal that most communities are attempting to change how these pensions are distributed as they can be a drain.
So, before you spew anymore BS about the system, do some fact-checking before generalizing. Generalizations aren't helping anyone.
JenniferGarnerMy post is stupid and yet you just confirmed that I was correct about the pensions and that its so bad many towns are now trying to change that because its a "drain" which is exactly what I claimed (key word you used, "trying" meaning it hasn't fucking changed)... You brought up stats about the average pay per year a cop receives which is cute but is something I never mentioned.
Great logic.
JenniferGarnerWhenever someone says cops are underpaid, I laugh at them and tell them to look up how an officer's pension plan is worked out. I also laugh when they say they're risking their lives everyday like its Iraq. Most officers go their whole careers without firing a single shot and most officers are making 60-80k a year on pension plans by working special jobs like construction zones "controlling traffic" and overtime for two hard years... since pensions are determined on their two highest paid years. I personally know a police chief in a very small town who retired in his 50s and makes 120k a year on his pension.
.MASSHOLE.I would argue that there is a difference between killing a cop and killing an innocent person. A cop is there to protect and serve, and depending on the location, putting their life on the line every day they put on their uniform. They do this not for themselves, but for the betterment of their community.
ZimmermanThis is just laughable. You actually think your life is worth less than a cop? You're pathetic. You might as well shoot yourself now and save the copsouls the trouble.
.MASSHOLE.I never said my life is worth less than a cop, I was merely suggesting that the punishment for killing a cop should be more severe than that of a civilian. Cops were put in the social system to protect the social order and constituents of the state, and by doing so, they are putting themselves in harms way so that others may live a better life. While some may not follow the code of conduct they swore to uphold, many do, and as such, those who are willing to attack them should be subjected to harsher punishment.
Learn to read. Someone probably had a bad experience with the BVT cops and now thinks that all cops are "pigs".
~~~~~~~~Nope, cops are just people like you and me. Don't kid yourself they aren't some noble hero's, the collect a check at the end of the week, again just like you and me.
Anathemawhich is the problem with society. there are certain positions where you should value the job and want to be doing it for what it represents. there are a ton of different ways to make money on this planet.
i wouldn't want to see a neurosurgeon who was like "man im fuckin tired, they dont expect this guy to live any way, i gotta get home"
.MASSHOLE.I never said my life is worth less than a cop, I was merely suggesting that the punishment for killing a cop should be more severe than that of a civilian. Cops were put in the social system to protect the social order and constituents of the state, and by doing so, they are putting themselves in harms way so that others may live a better life. While some may not follow the code of conduct they swore to uphold, many do, and as such, those who are willing to attack them should be subjected to harsher punishment.
Learn to read. Someone probably had a bad experience with the BVT cops and now thinks that all cops are "pigs".
JenniferGarnerYou are brilliant. Yes! Lets just give pigs badges because they were around when other training was taking place. If youre so hard, vets of the imaginary war who refuse to see the truth, the see how this invasion is not based on fact but rumor. You cannot all be possibly that dumb.
JenniferGarnerYou are brilliant. Yes! Lets just give pigs badges because they were around when other training was taking place. If youre so hard, vets of the imaginary war who refuse to see the truth, the see how this invasion is not based on fact but rumor. You cannot all be possibly that dumb.
JenniferGarnerYou cannot all be possibly that dumb.
JenniferGarnerAnd this is a prime example that only the most idiotic members of society support such behavior.
kshaughnBe more of a liberal pussy. You can't. This isn't a race problem, it is a criminal problem. Brown and Garner are dead because they assaulted cops and resisted arrest. If you don't break the law, the cops won't have any reason to arrest you.
louie.miragsThe problem with not resisting arrest in Garner's case is he was constantly getting harassed by police. When he goes to court he doesn't have the money to get a lawyer to defend him every time. He didn't even have any cigarettes on him when he was getting arrested. So, it makes sense that he is resisting because he is tired of getting harassed. I am not saying resist arrest but more the laws need to be changed and cops need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent when they go overboard
kshaughn"You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, you will be appointed one."
louie.miragsthat is cute.. as if a public attorney is the same as dishing out thousands for a personal attorney. I think you watch too much Law and Order
kshaughnYou originally said he can't afford a lawyer, which I commented that he doesn't actually need any money to have one. You made no initial reference to being able to afford a good attorney. You would be really bad at debating. But to reiterate my original point, don't fucking break the law and resist arrest. You're putting your life in the hands of someone else who will (and rightfully so) put their safety before yours.
louie.miragsThe problem in Nyc with the stop and frisk laws are the cops can harass whoever they want whenever they want. Regardless if they broke the law or if there is a complaint against them. This results in a disproportionate rate of minorities being locked up for minor victimless crimes. For example, weed is decriminalized in NYC but when a cop stop and frisk a random person and they find weed the individual gets charged with a misdemeanor. And in your eyes he is now a criminal and should just follow cops orders. Well, this indivudual most likely can't afford bail or a laywer. So, they will spend time in the slammer for a plant that the majority of us smoke. "But he broke the law!!"... And then people wonder why some people do not respect authority and resist arrest. They are tired of it. In Garner's case he was tired of it too. He asked the cops why are they always harassing him?
there have been major attempts to stop "stop and frisk" but the cops love that shit! They make money off these arrest
JenniferGarnerRight, all cops are doing it for the betterment of their community... yes, none of them are doing it for the full medical coverage or for their ridiculous pension plans that bankrupt small towns, or because its the highest paid job they can get straight out of highschool.
Whenever someone says cops are underpaid, I laugh at them and tell them to look up how an officer's pension plan is worked out. I also laugh when they say they're risking their lives everyday like its Iraq. Most officers go their whole careers without firing a single shot and most officers are making 60-80k a year on pension plans by working special jobs like construction zones "controlling traffic" and overtime for two hard years... since pensions are determined on their two highest paid years. I personally know a police chief in a very small town who retired in his 50s and makes 120k a year on his pension.
Its also funny to see that most incidents where an officer kills an unarmed citizen because he "feared for his life" are in suburban areas with very low crime rates and almost always involves a minority.
I don't get why this site is full of kids who support the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality... then again they're all white, middle class boys who have never encountered a person of color who has had to deal with all the bullshit that comes with having a darker skin color.
kshaughnAlso if you bothered to do any research, it is a misdemeanor to be carrying weed in public in NYC. If you have any amount in a public space, it is a misdemeanor. Seriously, can you be any less educated on the things you try to argue?
louie.miragsInstead of trying to bash me think about what I am saying... Weed is decriminalized. The cops take it out of the person's pocket and then call that in public view. That is so ass backwards. When stop and frisk is designed to get guns off that street. Instead the numbers show they catch very few guns. Instead they catch tons of people with weed in their pockets.. Which is decriminalized. But, they are changing these young people into criminals. So, the laws are fucked and made to benefit police.
louie.miragsdub post.. but my last post seems to be off topic but what I am getting at is people (mainly minorities) are tired of being harassed by police. Our current laws, some which were written centuries ago need an overhaul. And our prison system that benefits off drug arrest needs to be changed. Cops making money off arrest of victimless crimes needs to go away. Free country? yeah right. People should be allowed to do what they want as long as not harming anybody else. And yes selling lucys may be a crime, but it should not result in a cop holding a dude in a chokehold. How many times have you been somewhere and somebody ask to buy a cigarette for a dollar. It is not that big of deal. But people are shouting "CRIMINAL!" from the rooftops. That is why people are up in arms. They are tired of it.
.MASSHOLE.Can you imagine how unpopular a career as a cop, firefighter, or other public-service employee position would be if pensions were cut drastically? There needs to be an equilibrium, and those take times. The saying goes Rome wasn't build in a night. Well, Pensions will not change in one either. It is not only cops that benefit from pensions. It is firefighters, mayors, local government officials, etc. that also do. So to singularly blame cops for the drain is unfair and untrue.
louie.miragsAnd yes selling lucys may be a crime, but it should not result in a cop holding a dude in a chokehold.
kshaughnHe caused himself to be put in the chokehold. If he didn't resist and had just put his hands behind his back, none of this would have happened. You can argue all you want about whether or not what he did should be a crime, but he compounded a poor decision of breaking the law with a horrible decision of resisting arrest.
louie.miragsYou need to put yourself in his shoes. He was tired of being harassed by cops. He knows if they are arresting him he is going to be locked up for an undetermined amount of time. He didn't even have cigarettes on him. And the court system is not going to be on his side. And he is just supposed to give up his rights immediately?
kshaughnIf he was tired of getting harassed by cops, why didn't he stop doing things to get arrested after the first time he got arrested? Or the 10th time? 20th? 30th? I'm sorry but I just can't have any sympathy for someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes and is constantly putting himself in situations to get arrested.
louie.miragsno sympathy? So we should get every repeat offender in a chokehold? Every cigarette smoker has bummed or bought a cigarette for a buck before. Or at least have been asked to bum a smoke for a dollar. And not everyone one of them deserves jail time.
JenniferGarnerExcept the dude I originally quoted wrote that people become cops because they want to improve their community and do general good for the people, which was my whole point and you just reinforced it while calling it stupid and the same time. And yes I can blame the police because in almost every town the police forces are bloated and firemen cannot make absurd overtime for sitting in a construction zone doing nothing. Cops have a unique and ridiculous pension plan so again I ask, how is what I wrote nothing but utter stupidity when you just agreed with it?
JenniferGarnerExcept the dude I originally quoted wrote that people become cops because they want to improve their community and do general good for the people, which was my whole point and you just reinforced it while calling it stupid and the same time. And yes I can blame the police because in almost every town the police forces are bloated and firemen cannot make absurd overtime for sitting in a construction zone doing nothing. Cops have a unique and ridiculous pension plan so again I ask, how is what I wrote nothing but utter stupidity when you just agreed with it?
Mr.HuckSaw last night that the Yankees are going to pick up the tab for Ramos son's education. That's awesome.
.MASSHOLE.I never said my life is worth less than a cop, I was merely suggesting that the punishment for killing a cop should be more severe than that of a civilian. Cops were put in the social system to protect the social order and constituents of the state, and by doing so, they are putting themselves in harms way so that others may live a better life. While some may not follow the code of conduct they swore to uphold, many do, and as such, those who are willing to attack them should be subjected to harsher punishment.
Learn to read. Someone probably had a bad experience with the BVT cops and now thinks that all cops are "pigs".
B.QuincyYou did not write utter stupidtity (for the first time ever) but the majority of your points were wrong and his post was giving the correct stats and facts to prove you wrong, he only agreed with ONE thing you said. You really need to stop reading everything like the leftist fuck you are, taking things out of context, and then blowing them up. Honestly, your posts on this thread disgust me, how can you sit behind your computer and criticize the actions of the men and women who work hard all over america to protect us. You are so unpatriotic you shouldn't be allowed to call yourself an american. So take your head out of your ass and stop being such an ignorant liberal fuck.
... MURICA'
ZimmermanIn saying that punishment for killing a cop should be higher, you devalue your own life. I can read, but I can also interpret.
And no, my problems with copsouls don't stem from a bad experience. They stem from reality. The reality is that I have a much greater chance of being harassed by cops for not hurting anyone than being helped. Cops used to actually follow what it says on their badges, but not anymore. The force attracts more bad people than it does good ones.
It is amoral to willingly place oneself in a position in which one may have to enforce unjust laws. That being said I still obviously believe a police force is necessary, but it carries too much evil with it for me to be able to look at the officers with an ounce of respect.
And just for further clarification, I have not once mentioned the killing of Mike Brown. The protesters have every reason to be angry, but they picked the wrong case to get mad about. When I mention cop murders, I'm talking about the ones that are actual murders(I am not ignorant of the fact that Brown was going to die that day), which happen a whole lot more than twice.
So yeah, I do have authority problems. But they stem from realities that have been getting worse and will continue to unless people like you stop sucking cop dick. Do you want to live in a police state?
.MASSHOLE.Am I devaluing my own life? No. I am simply saying that those who engage in a civic duty, such as protecting the innocent like cops and firefighters, place themselves in harms way to better the community. Therefore, those who attempt to harm these individuals in a malicious manner should also be punished in a harsher manner because these civilians have no duty to volunteer for civic duties. I am not saying their life is worth more, but rather that the punishment for taking their life should be higher because of the sacrifices they may make to better their community.
Reality? You are making a gross generalization when you say that cops are more likely to harm than help. Cops still do and will always follow the creed of being an officer. However, you are letting the actions of a bad few cloud your view of these people. Would you call all of those who practice Islam terrorists because of the actions of a select few? I would doubt it, but then again, seeing the idiocy of this post, I would not be surprised.
Amoral? Really? Never bring morals into an argument because it is a slippery slope. Do you think that the morals you have are shared by every person on the face of this planet because I hate to tell you, they are not. The world is not dictated by morals, because if it were, there would be no rapists walking the streets, no children homeless because one of their parents murdered their spouse, no homeless men and women living out of carts. The list can go on. But you know what? Cops try to enforce what was once deemed morally good. They attempt to keep you and your family safe, be it on the streets, in your house, on the roads, and in your neighborhoods. They are the ones who attempt to stop rapists from walking in the streets, keep murders behind bars, and even help the homeless at times.
You are an ignorant child if you think that the actions and opinions of a few are shared by many. Am I denying there is a problem with cop violence in the United States? No. There is, and it needs to be addressed. But to say that every cop is bad and deserves no respect is not helping the situation. This is not a one-sided problem, it needs to be addressed by both sides and if it is not, will never come to resolution.
I truly hope that you are never in a situation where you will need the assistance of a cop, but maybe, if you are, you will appreciate what some of these men and women do to protect and serve their community.
J.D.Of course if you think cops are basically pigs and are a negative force in society there's no talking to you in any case, so it's all a moot argument.
ZimmermanActually, you still are devaluing the lives of people who aren't cops. You're saying that it's worse to kill a public servant (which isn't even exclusive to police. What about other servants? Philanthropists? Anyone who does "good?" And let us not forget that police for the most part do not work to protect and serve anymore) and in saying that, you are saying that their lives are worth more than yours because of their decision to choose a career that carries with it an ideal (which they don't even come close to meeting). Get it now?
I am not letting the actions of a few bad cops spoil my view of the rest. Obviously there are good ones. I'm thinking you think there are a lot more of those than there actually are. I think I've encountered one cop I would consider "good" out of the ones I have encountered. The force may stand for ideals but it attracts power hungry people; simple minded individuals who get their self worth from authority of force because they couldn't do much else. Sure, some wanted to protect and serve, but I'd be more labored to find one than to find a fucking copsoul.
No I do not think that my values are shared by everyone else. That doesn't make others right. I never once said the world is dictated by morals, I am actually a moral antirealist. That doesn't mean I can't think it is wrong to say, be a rapist, etc. Obviously reality doesn't follow the rule of my values, but that doesn't mean I cannot use my values to interpret reality. Let's stay away from morality though. It seems you said a whole lot of nothing there. Cops do not "try to enforce what was once deemed morally good." They try to enforce the law. There is a big difference. And I'm sure this is just how you arranged your sentence, but if it was only "once deemed morally good" why would we still want it to be enforced?
Stop it with the ad hominem and focus on my arguments. You don't know who I am and you try to discredit my arguments because you think I'm some delinquent who's had a few bad run ins with authority. I could pull the same shit with you and speculate about where your views come from, but I won't. No, I'm just smart enough to realize that there is a big problem with the police force right now in the U.S. And I'm not naive enough to actually believe them when they tell me they're there to protect and serve.
I'll say one more thing to separate myself both from you and the white guilt protesters. I think people (and especially black people) in the U.S. have every reason to be very angry about the police situation right now. They've chosen the wrong cases to get mad about though. Brown was going to die. There are so many other cop murders that happen all the time and are ignored by both sides. On top of the murders are other injustices like stop and frisk, the lopsided arrest percentages. If you're black,you are something like 4 times more likely to be arrested for pot possession even though the usage rates are actually a bit higher for whites.
.MASSHOLE.JD summarized why those who attack cops are held to a much higher standard than the rest of us more eloquently than I can. Let us leave that be.
Now, back to your attempt to say that cops are not there to protect and serve. If they are not there to protect and serve, then what are they there for? Are they there simply to promote their own interests? Or the interests of what our government, the people you and I voted for? Again, you cannot answer that. You point to your assumption of the majority of cops being "power hungry people", which, is impossible to quantify. Neither you nor I will be able to come to an agreement on the dominant number of good or bad cop.
I only brought up ad hominem in the first part of our disagreement as a means to garner an understanding of your past with law enforcement.
If you had read my second part of the disagreement you would have noted that I too, agree there is a problem with our law enforcement and it needs to be addressed. However, where you and I differ is in our respect of the officers who do follow the code that they swore to.
ZimmermanI never attempted to say that cops are not there to protect and serve. Obviously they are. My point is that most cops don't fulfill that ideal anymore. Sure we can't quantify what most cops are like, but the evidence in forms of arrest percentages, wrongfully battered people, etc. supports that cops aren't exactly honorable people anymore en masse and do not deserve extra respect.
You seem to respect all police officers in general more than other humans though. I respect the ones who do whats right, and the others are scum regardless of their badge. I'm basically saying that the badge warrants no extra respect.
.MASSHOLE.Most is the key word here. You and I both have no way of proving our points, but logic would indicate that perhaps because this problem is now coming to light, it is most likely no most, but rather a higher percentage than what we once thought. Still, we have no exact figures to prove either of our points.
I give all officers the respect that carrying a badge carries with it, and right now, that is higher than your average joe because of the the difference in social responsibilities . However, if like with all individuals, if I am proven to be incorrect, then I adjust appropriately.
