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Biggest barrier to entry for skiers?

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16candles
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 516
Howdy NS,

Fortunately, I'm lucky enough to come from a family that has supported my skiing since day one. However, I'm curious as to what the most difficult barrier to overcome has been when it comes to getting involved with skiing? Is it the costs? Finding a place to ski? Finding a ride to the hill? Finding people to ski with?

I know a lot of it has to do with where you live, so please say where your from and specify why it has been difficult to get involved in skiing.

I think a discussion on this could facilitate some cool ideas as to how to get more people involved in the sport!
Nov 28 2014 4:01PM
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B.Ryan
Posts: 322 - Karma: 1,142
just figuring out in general how much of a fucking awesome sport it is. In highschool, i always thought it looked dumb and never tried it. Decided to one day and never looked back. Just get the word out about this rad sport
Nov 28 2014 4:08PM
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skodeo7
Posts: 14949 - Karma: 9,234
I think cost is the biggest factor overall (I'm on the East Coast). It's so damn expensive to ski, especially for families, it really sucks. Most of us are really fortunate to have been exposed at a young age. When I was in elementary school, my Mom was heavily involved with a program called JISP (Junior Instructional Ski Program), which was a program that allowed students to pay $35 for the season and you would get ski rentals, lessons and half-day tickets (every Weds) and you got to ski free the whole day on Sunday, which was a free ski day (no lessons). It is such a great program, it's $95/season now for students but still, overall it's a great deal to introduce young people to the sport, especially for those whose families have never skied before or are unable to afford it. I wish there could be more programs like this.
Nov 28 2014 4:08PM
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dyyylan
Posts: 186 - Karma: 500
The biggest barrier for me was that I grew up in Florida. My mom hates the cold so I never saw snow until I was 26. Started skiing last year when my parents randomly bought a vacation house in park city.

Beyond that, I don't think cost is a major factor. Skiing isn't too expensive unless it's a "vacation sport".
Nov 28 2014 4:09PM
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seanahue.
Posts: 2142 - Karma: 3,368
overall cost for sure.

related to that though is the fact that ski boots generally suck and are unbelievably uncomfortable/awkward/expensive when compared to snowboard boots. if you want them to fit right and be more comfortable, you have to shell out hundreds of dollars to a bootfitter for footbeds, liners and adjustments; just getting fitted is often nearly equal to the cost you paid for the boot itself. even once you're fitted, it's rare that you find a pair that leave you 100% pain-free after a few hours of hard skiing.

most newbs to the sport have no idea how crucial a bootfitter is anyway though, so their misery is probably 100x worse. i tried to snowboard for years as a 11-15yr old kid, and just accepted the fact that i felt less maneuverable on-snow strictly for the sake of my feet being more comfortable.
Nov 28 2014 4:21PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
Cost takes the top spot for sure.

Actually getting to the hill is a close second. Not only is this a logistical hassle, but then you've got the cost issue rearing its head again.
Nov 28 2014 4:29PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,449
WALL O NONSENSE


1. Location - If you aren't somewhere you can ski it's probably not going to happen for you.

2. $$$ It's expensive. When you're a kid and you're growing constantly you're never rocking the same stuff for long so it's a constant battle to upgrade. I'm not even sure if Play it again sports still exists but they used to have deals.

If you live in the right area it's pretty doable regardless of costs. Especially near the smaller mountains. The problem is just figuring things out and even getting into it in general. If you've done it in school or something and like it, then at least you have a chance. Maybe just going with the school for a couple years till a pass becomes affordable or you can get a job at a hill. At 14 it really becomes doable if the location is right. A free pass and making money, while not much, enough to cover gear and meeting more people in the ski realm.

For people on the outside it's overwhelming. You see the day ticket prices which are crazy, the new gear cost, which is insane etc. You see all these $$$. If you know people that are involved or can find some stuff out it's very doable. I can understand not wanting to try it out if you've never been. Skiing doesn't mean shit to you yet except $20 meal, and give me your wallet type deals on tickets and gear.

I think it happens in most things. Some sports/hobbies/ whatever are more expensive than others but if you're passionate about it they're totally doable. The more you get into it, the more you're hooked, meet people, and learn ways to pull it off for cheap.

Since I turned 14 the only year I didn't turn a profit from skiing was 3 years ago cause I volunteered. Never made much but a free pass and enough to cover gas, food and shelter makes it totally doable.

Even now I'd have no chance of affording to buy $100 lift tickets, mtn food, and new gear all the time.
Nov 28 2014 5:02PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4750 - Karma: -558
Distance to mountains, dislike of cold, and cost.
Nov 28 2014 5:06PM
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El.
Posts: 221 - Karma: 835
getting rides for me.

my family isnt big on skiing at all and i wont have my license until next season so finding people who can drive up is a big challenge
Nov 28 2014 5:38PM
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whackhouse
Posts: 736 - Karma: 939
Its expensive as fuck to ski a lot, lift tickets add up on top of gear being a lot of money by itself. As far as progressing as a skier, there's always the factor of fear and self doubt, if you can overcome that you'll be able to progress better and faster.
Nov 28 2014 5:53PM
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straightlining
Posts: 238 - Karma: 139
While it's still expensive, it's still cheaper than a heroin.
Nov 28 2014 5:57PM
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JGWI
Posts: 2842 - Karma: 7,812
I'm not a big spender so cost wasnt a huge issue for me. However I am really the first and only in my family to really get into the sport/hobby. That means I wasnt exposed much to it at an early age and therefor got a later start than I wouldve prefered.
Nov 28 2014 5:58PM
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kenevil
Posts: 1309 - Karma: 31
dyyylanThe biggest barrier for me was that I grew up in Florida. My mom hates the cold so I never saw snow until I was 26. Started skiing last year when my parents randomly bought a vacation house in park city.

Beyond that, I don't think cost is a major factor. Skiing isn't too expensive unless it's a "vacation sport".


Not to be a dick or anything but you sound like you live in a bubble. For people who don't have parents that buy vacation properties skiing is hella expensive and that's definitely the major factor in preventing more people from skiing. I grew up in a small town in BC that has a ski hill 15 minutes away, yet most of my friends in school couldn't afford a pass and gear. For those that did ski through highschool, many have dropped out of the sport due to other conflicting priorities. 10 years ago a pass to my local mtn was 350 early bird price. Now it's 700. Cost is definitely a major factor.
Nov 28 2014 6:44PM
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John18_6
Posts: 7313 - Karma: 49,158
Hyland (my home hill) doesn't even have a fucking parking lot this year so that screws people over.
Nov 28 2014 7:01PM
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dyyylan
Posts: 186 - Karma: 500
kenevilNot to be a dick or anything but you sound like you live in a bubble. For people who don't have parents that buy vacation properties skiing is hella expensive and that's definitely the major factor in preventing more people from skiing. I grew up in a small town in BC that has a ski hill 15 minutes away, yet most of my friends in school couldn't afford a pass and gear. For those that did ski through highschool, many have dropped out of the sport due to other conflicting priorities. 10 years ago a pass to my local mtn was 350 early bird price. Now it's 700. Cost is definitely a major factor.


Haha. Nah, my parents buying the vacation house was just what got me out there, I've lived on my own for 10 years. Once you have a "real" job, skiing isn't really more expensive than any other sport, as long as you live near a mountain. I got a full setup of last years gear for about $700 (skis, boots, poles, goggles etc) and my pass was about $500. Pretty cheap if you don't waste money on stupid shit.
Nov 28 2014 7:07PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4750 - Karma: -558
kenevilNot to be a dick or anything but you sound like you live in a bubble. For people who don't have parents that buy vacation properties skiing is hella expensive and that's definitely the major factor in preventing more people from skiing. I grew up in a small town in BC that has a ski hill 15 minutes away, yet most of my friends in school couldn't afford a pass and gear. For those that did ski through highschool, many have dropped out of the sport due to other conflicting priorities. 10 years ago a pass to my local mtn was 350 early bird price. Now it's 700. Cost is definitely a major factor.



Hes probably comparing skiing to a sport/hobby polo or deep sea fishing in a 50+ ft boat. In that respect its pretty cheap unless you are renting a vacation house like his. You are likely comparing it to hiking or basketball.
Nov 28 2014 7:08PM
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dyyylan
Posts: 186 - Karma: 500
PeppermillRenoHes probably comparing skiing to a sport/hobby polo or deep sea fishing in a 50+ ft boat. In that respect its pretty cheap unless you are renting a vacation house like his. You are likely comparing it to hiking or basketball.


Sure. Skiing is expensive compared to like, jogging. Or skateboarding. But there's a slew of other action sports that make skiing about average.
Nov 28 2014 7:12PM
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kenevil
Posts: 1309 - Karma: 31
dyyylanHaha. Nah, my parents buying the vacation house was just what got me out there, I've lived on my own for 10 years. Once you have a "real" job, skiing isn't really more expensive than any other sport, as long as you live near a mountain. I got a full setup of last years gear for about $700 (skis, boots, poles, goggles etc) and my pass was about $500. Pretty cheap if you don't waste money on stupid shit.


Yeah but I guess my point is that skiing is expensive enough to stop families from buying their son/daughter a pass and gear to get them started. That to me is the biggest thing, because if your aren't lucky enough to start skiing when you're young, you probably won't get into the sport. There's exceptions for sure but you can't deny that the price stops kids from getting into it when they're young.
Nov 28 2014 7:31PM
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L0gic
Posts: 576 - Karma: 2,290
Sometimes it comes down to chance. 95% of the kids in my school have never skied before and have never been exposed to what an amazing sport it is.
Nov 28 2014 9:02PM
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APunx176
Posts: 1189 - Karma: 2,628
Finding rides was the worst for me last year because I didn't have my license, but now I'd have to say cost because I'm still skiing with boots that don't fit me well and I don't have the money to get new ones lol. As for skiing in general, finding a rail at my ability level is pretty hard for me because I'm a newbie to rails and there's no basic flat rail/box at my local hill right now (there's this propane tank but it's angled down pretty harshly), but I'm thinking that they'll put one in soon
Nov 28 2014 9:04PM
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THEE_wizard
Posts: 304 - Karma: 1,842
Not finding friends to ski with has been a constant struggle. I'm not too good at finding friends and none of my current friends ski. I get so bored on the mountain and have lost a ton of creativity in my tricks because I have no one to ever talk to on the mountain. For example, this week (thanksgiving break at my highschool) I had some plans to meet up with another guy I just met and he even bailed. It's sad too see everyone having fun with friends when I'm just standing there alone.
Nov 28 2014 10:49PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4750 - Karma: -558
dyyylanSure. Skiing is expensive compared to like, jogging. Or skateboarding. But there's a slew of other action sports that make skiing about average.



Yeah I grew up playing hockey skiing is no cheaper and its 20 bucks to play for an hour as an adult even without buying gear. Golf is no cheaper.

But like others illuded to above in the thread you have to be resourceful if you are on a budget.


Guess what I can't afford to go skiing or play golf at full prices. Need a season pass or discounted third party lift tickets/greens fees on liftopia or golfnow. I simply will not EVER pay 60 for 18 w/cart somewhere average and I won't pay 100 to ski for a day.

But lets be honest... if there is anything I want to spend my money on its probably skiing.
Nov 28 2014 11:41PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4750 - Karma: -558
*alluded.

FUck me my grammar and spelling is horrible...
Nov 28 2014 11:42PM
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Raffi
Posts: 7 - Karma: 19
I live in MD the biggest challenge is to find areas. With that being said you can always find a area, cost is a big issue unless you grow up with infinite money it's hard to get skis, boots, bindings and poles and still have enough money to be able to take a weekend off to go skiing.
Nov 29 2014 12:44AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
dyyylanI don't think cost is a major factor. Skiing isn't too expensive unless it's a "vacation sport".


$500 Season Pass
$100/trip Gas Money x 15 trips = $1500
$300+ yearly hardgood/softgood/maintenance budget


At the low end - $800
At the realistic end - $2300

Either way, i dont know how you dont think skiing is fucking expensive haha.
Nov 29 2014 12:58AM
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danlyfe
Posts: 96 - Karma: 87
Gear is a bitch to the wallet.
Nov 29 2014 3:08AM
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dyyylan
Posts: 186 - Karma: 500
californiagrown$500 Season Pass
$100/trip Gas Money x 15 trips = $1500
$300+ yearly hardgood/softgood/maintenance budget


At the low end - $800
At the realistic end - $2300

Either way, i dont know how you dont think skiing is fucking expensive haha.


$100 on gas each way is realistic? Assuming gas is $4.00 per gallon and your car gets 25 mpg that's over 300 miles each way, who would actually drive that far to go skiing lol.

Even $2300 a year isn't a lot though, unless you're making minimum wage I guess.

Either way, it's just a matter of perspective. That's not expensive to me because I have a decent job. If you're in high school, everything is expensive. There's different barriers for everyone.... if you were older, the biggest barrier to entry for skiing might be your bad hip and how your bones ache when it's snowing.

I still think THE biggest barrier for skiing is just location, for most people if they live 300 miles away from a mountain, they just won't ski. When I lived in FL, skiing wasn't really something people even thought about, because it's not part of the culture. There's probably a very small percentage of those people that would take a trip once every few winters to slide around, but beyond that it's just something so far away that no one does it or even thinks about it.

I work on the internet (I'm a software developer) and I've been trying to find a good place to live year round that has good skiing, and that I can kitesurf in the summer. I've found how difficult it is to find a place that's even close to a big ski area, there's basically a few in utah, a couple in CO, and not much else - everything else is such a long drive, way too far to drive to ski every day.
Nov 29 2014 11:56AM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2088 - Karma: 1,333
dyyylan$100 on gas each way is realistic? Assuming gas is $4.00 per gallon and your car gets 25 mpg that's over 300 miles each way, who would actually drive that far to go skiing lol.

Even $2300 a year isn't a lot though, unless you're making minimum wage I guess.

Either way, it's just a matter of perspective. That's not expensive to me because I have a decent job. If you're in high school, everything is expensive. There's different barriers for everyone.... if you were older, the biggest barrier to entry for skiing might be your bad hip and how your bones ache when it's snowing.

I still think THE biggest barrier for skiing is just location, for most people if they live 300 miles away from a mountain, they just won't ski. When I lived in FL, skiing wasn't really something people even thought about, because it's not part of the culture. There's probably a very small percentage of those people that would take a trip once every few winters to slide around, but beyond that it's just something so far away that no one does it or even thinks about it.

I work on the internet (I'm a software developer) and I've been trying to find a good place to live year round that has good skiing, and that I can kitesurf in the summer. I've found how difficult it is to find a place that's even close to a big ski area, there's basically a few in utah, a couple in CO, and not much else - everything else is such a long drive, way too far to drive to ski every day.


I think you really have to realise how privileged you are. Do you really think that the general public in America have the same resources and conditions you do?
Nov 29 2014 12:09PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
dyyylan$100 on gas each way is realistic? Assuming gas is $4.00 per gallon and your car gets 25 mpg that's over 300 miles each way, who would actually drive that far to go skiing lol.

Even $2300 a year isn't a lot though, unless you're making minimum wage I guess.

Either way, it's just a matter of perspective. That's not expensive to me because I have a decent job. If you're in high school, everything is expensive. There's different barriers for everyone.... if you were older, the biggest barrier to entry for skiing might be your bad hip and how your bones ache when it's snowing.

I still think THE biggest barrier for skiing is just location, for most people if they live 300 miles away from a mountain, they just won't ski. When I lived in FL, skiing wasn't really something people even thought about, because it's not part of the culture. There's probably a very small percentage of those people that would take a trip once every few winters to slide around, but beyond that it's just something so far away that no one does it or even thinks about it.

I work on the internet (I'm a software developer) and I've been trying to find a good place to live year round that has good skiing, and that I can kitesurf in the summer. I've found how difficult it is to find a place that's even close to a big ski area, there's basically a few in utah, a couple in CO, and not much else - everything else is such a long drive, way too far to drive to ski every day.


Lol, you don't think $2300 is a lot? I probly make very similar or more money to you, but I at least have enough perspective to know the value of $2300. Damn dude.

And FYI the gas figure isnt made up, its what I did the past few years driving to Tahoe in a 4runner.

But like you said its the distance. The vast majority of the population lives along the coast- hundreds ofiles from the snowy mountains. Travel costs are exorbitant these days, so when travel is factored into the already pricey equation the sport becomes cost prohibitive to anyone who doesn't live within a few miles of a chairlift
Nov 29 2014 12:33PM
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skodeo7
Posts: 14949 - Karma: 9,234
dyyylan$100 on gas each way is realistic? Assuming gas is $4.00 per gallon and your car gets 25 mpg that's over 300 miles each way, who would actually drive that far to go skiing lol.

Even $2300 a year isn't a lot though, unless you're making minimum wage I guess.

Either way, it's just a matter of perspective. That's not expensive to me because I have a decent job. If you're in high school, everything is expensive. There's different barriers for everyone.... if you were older, the biggest barrier to entry for skiing might be your bad hip and how your bones ache when it's snowing.

I still think THE biggest barrier for skiing is just location, for most people if they live 300 miles away from a mountain, they just won't ski. When I lived in FL, skiing wasn't really something people even thought about, because it's not part of the culture. There's probably a very small percentage of those people that would take a trip once every few winters to slide around, but beyond that it's just something so far away that no one does it or even thinks about it.

I work on the internet (I'm a software developer) and I've been trying to find a good place to live year round that has good skiing, and that I can kitesurf in the summer. I've found how difficult it is to find a place that's even close to a big ski area, there's basically a few in utah, a couple in CO, and not much else - everything else is such a long drive, way too far to drive to ski every day.


You're not thinking in general terms at all, you seem to lack perspective entirely. There's a lot of people that are much less fortunate than you that are completely unable to justify the cost of skiing. There's plenty of people that have a hard enough time putting food on the table for their families.

Think about the cost of basketball, baseball, skateboarding or other sports like that. It cost is infinitely less. Skiing is definitely a sport of the privileged, middle and upper class. For a lot of people it's unattainable.
Nov 29 2014 12:35PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51263 - Karma: 157,449
Also with location, there are some cheap to free hills out there. A decent amount in the northeast. Not enough to really make skiing accessible for everyone but for some at least. There's 1 tiny rope tow hill maybe 100 yards long and flat an hour from me that I've been to once. There's a tbar with 2 trails that's maybe double that lentch and a little steeper a half hour from me. The Tbar one I've probably been to 20+ times. For a few years growing up, the local hill went under and nothing was close or cheap. I got to go 3 or 4 times with the school most of those years which I was damn lucky but other than that just rode the free hill. If that wasn't there I probably wouldn't have skied outside of the school program until the local hill reopened.

If my school hadn't had that program I'm sure I would have skied at least a couple times at the local hill but idk if it really would have grabbed me. Just got lucky that that existed.

On the plus there are lots of places that do stuff like that. The downside are there are lots of places that don't.

Last season I did a once a week park lesson with the local school program kids. I think they got to go as many as 8 weeks? The local hill is close to the school and much much cheaper than gore so it's actually affordable for the town. It was cool being involved in the program that was the only thing keeping me on snow when I was younger. Also teaching some kids some park skillz is always good shit.

I think with that program now they can also ski a few days on their own on each of the break weeks.

I haven't lived/worked everywhere so idk how common these programs are across the country but I hope they're pretty common in areas that have hills and snow. Also hoping that they're improving rather than getting cut.

I don't play the lottery but I wish I could magically win a bunch of money and buy up a bunch of small plots of land, some rope tows, a couple small features, some race gates, and chuck them everywhere. Even if the vertical drop isn't even 50' places. Something flat and short wouldn't be the most exciting thing in the world, and probably not your ticket to the xgames, but anything that keeps people shredding on snow is a good thing imo.


Sorry, I'll shut up now.
Nov 29 2014 2:24PM
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giqqqah
Posts: 8 - Karma: 17
Well living in Kosovo the biggest barrier is there's no place to ski. We only have a ski resort which has no Park, it's lifts sometimes work sometimes not, last winter it didn t even open.
Nov 29 2014 2:35PM
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dyyylan
Posts: 186 - Karma: 500
JibberinoI think you really have to realise how privileged you are. Do you really think that the general public in America have the same resources and conditions you do?


Sure they do. I taught myself all of my current job skills, and got the last couple consulting gigs from guys I've met in chat rooms. With the internet, the resources are there for anyone.

I love what I do, almost as much as I love being able to ski/surf/bike every day and work when I'm not out having fun.

But the thread has been derailed long enough, I'd be happy to answer questions about life advice through PMs ;)
Nov 29 2014 2:40PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
dyyylanSure they do. I taught myself all of my current job skills, and got the last couple consulting gigs from guys I've met in chat rooms. With the internet, the resources are there for anyone.

I love what I do, almost as much as I love being able to ski/surf/bike every day and work when I'm not out having fun.

But the thread has been derailed long enough, I'd be happy to answer questions about life advice through PMs ;)


You just totally missed what everyone said to you. your outlook on life sounds awfully blissful...
Nov 29 2014 3:06PM
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dyyylan
Posts: 186 - Karma: 500
californiagrownYou just totally missed what everyone said to you. your outlook on life sounds awfully blissful...


I didn't miss anything. The thread is "Biggest barrier to entry for skiers". What I am saying is that cost becomes much less of an issue as you get older and can save money. But distance will prevent you from skiing every day. You originally said something about spending $1500 a year on gas - that is rolled into distance, because you live so far away that it isn't even possible to ski more than 15 times a year. That's why I moved to PC, I probably wouldn't even ski if I had to drive more than a half hour to the mountain, I'd find another sport to do.
Nov 29 2014 3:28PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
dyyylanI didn't miss anything. The thread is "Biggest barrier to entry for skiers". What I am saying is that cost becomes much less of an issue as you get older and can save money. But distance will prevent you from skiing every day. You originally said something about spending $1500 a year on gas - that is rolled into distance, because you live so far away that it isn't even possible to ski more than 15 times a year. That's why I moved to PC, I probably wouldn't even ski if I had to drive more than a half hour to the mountain, I'd find another sport to do.


Man, you have a very naive view of America and the world. Its like you either don't know the challenges that the vast majority of people face when trying to live and work, or you simply don't think that those challenges are very real.

You seem to have a great situation going on. thats awesome. Im not judging you for it at all, in fact i just made some geographic and career moves to put myself closer to the mountains- basically trying to put myself in a similar situation to you. All my successes were worked for and largely paid for by myself. HOWEVER i feel incredibly blessed, and lucky to

A) be born a white male in America. I could not have been born into a better situation.

B) being born to parents who could comfortably afford to clothe, feed and shelter me while still having enough money left over to allow for me to play various sports- including a few ski trips per year.


I know countless people who have college educations, and those who dont and they are scraping by. They can afford the essentials but have little money for really anything else. they need to take jobs where they can find them, and mountain towns arent exactly metorpolis' of economic growth haha.



The kind of attitude you seem to hold is one of the two main reasons i moved out of the Bay Area recently. The bubble that young, successful people seem to live in is very off putting to me. From my experience they seem to think that they are an example and the norm, when in reality they are absolutely the exception. they seem very ungratefully oblivious for the things that were out of their control that largely contributed to their success. Don't get me wrong, you shouldn't feel embarrassed or bad for any of this. It was out of your control. But you shouldnt think everyone was so lucky, and think that your path is accessible to everyone.
Nov 29 2014 4:15PM
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dyyylan
Posts: 186 - Karma: 500
I agree with you
Nov 29 2014 4:36PM
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losh
Posts: 1126 - Karma: 4,691
californiagrown$500 Season Pass
$100/trip Gas Money x 15 trips = $1500
$300+ yearly hardgood/softgood/maintenance budget


At the low end - $800
At the realistic end - $2300

Either way, i dont know how you dont think skiing is fucking expensive haha.


who buys a season pass for somewhere thats 300 miles away?
Nov 29 2014 5:18PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
jlens05who buys a season pass for somewhere thats 300 miles away?


240ish. But people who dont have mountains near them... eg 90% of the pooulation of the US, if they were to buy a pass.
Nov 29 2014 5:45PM
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rtl32
Posts: 679 - Karma: 1,160
For me it's expense, and If I lived any farther south it would be finding a place and ride to a mountain (I live in NJ). Luckily I live like 40 minutes away from pretty much the only mountain near me so that isn't the biggest barrier.
Nov 29 2014 6:16PM
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