Another police shooting

While this is always a sensitive issue, and obviously brings up the same old circular arguments on gun control, armed police, 2nd amendment etc. I will say this: I am 99.9% sure that in the UK, or many other European countries this incident would not have resulted in the death of a 12 year old boy.

The tighter gun laws mean that seeing guns in open sight is complete rarity – no officer would have jumped to the conclusion the gun was real, nor would have felt threatened enough to shoot at a child who was neither threatening them nor even aiming the gun at them. In Europe, most officers are unarmed, and even the armed ones are adept at resolving dangerous situations without the need to discharge their weapon. There have been many examples of UK/European police resolving gun and knife incidents without shots being fired.

However, this is not necessarily a specific attack or criticism of the two officers involved in the Tamir Rice incident. I understand that you might feel that they had to shoot for their own safety (that may or may not be true), but the issue is not with them. It is with a system of high firearm availability, where the premise of a 12 year old boy having a loaded gun in a park is entirely plausible, and where the majority of officers are licensed and supported to fire upon any perceived threat.

(Please think of the broader picture here - there are many recent examples of fatal police shootings, not just this Tamir Rice case)

Whilst I understand that many of you will own, and feel the need to own, guns, the widespread ownership of firearms in the US, be it by criminals, civilians, trained professionals, police, or even children, only makes these kind of tragic mistakes possible.

.Hugo.The rubber bullets would be for the police dumb dumb. Rubber bullets for citizens would be pointless and a horrible idea

no that would be a good idea. nobody needs penetrating rounds, you just want something coming out of the end of your gun. if everyone could only get rubber bullets then there'd be a lot less killing. if you want to hunt use a crossbow or a fucking knife like a man. It's little unfair to shoot a deer with a scoped rifle from far away. or make strict hunting license controls.

~~~~~~~~Really? Killing someone should be the first and only option when faced with such a situation? Especially a 12 year old who is clearly not cognitively developed enough to grasp the severity of the situation? They should just be put down? There is no benefit of the doubt to be given?

Fuck, maybe I need to move Australia.

That's not what I said at all. I gave an example of why police go into those situations on edge. Police are trained to use lethal force as a last resort. When someone reaches for a gun, police do what they are trained to do in that situation...

Also, we have no idea what the kid was thinking when he reached for the gun. Maybe he was going to put it down. Maybe he was going to be all gangster and threaten the police. Unfortunately, we'll never know. It's not fair to make a judgement on his cognitive ability.

Lé.SkiingI'm not saying I have all the answers, but when I hear a story like this I try and think of every possible way the death could have been prevented.

Ever heard of suicide by cop? There are things in place to prevent cops from killing people perceived as a "threat". At the end of the day this comes down to mental health issues that need to be addressed in every country. Even now after this shooting the cops involved are going to have to start going to meetings for PTSD. The police involved in this shooting are now going to have to deal with shooting a 12 year old "unarmed" boy. That's something that no one should have to deal with.



On top of all of this perhaps the companies that make air soft guns should have to follow the same rules as cap guns and water guns and stuff, which is to not look like a real gun no matter how you "modify" it. whether it's cutting off an orange tip or spray painting the whole thing black.

Please elaborate on what those harm prevention strategies are in a suicide by cop situation. I'm genuinely interested.

Every officer involved in a shooting has to go through internal reviews and assessments to determine if they made the right call and if they are able to be back on the job. Sucks that he shot a 12 year old, but he wasn't "unarmed" and the officer did exactly what every officer is trained to do when someone reaches for a gun.

At the end of the day it's a huge tragedy, but I firmly believe that everyone acted appropriately.

Aomameno that would be a good idea. nobody needs penetrating rounds, you just want something coming out of the end of your gun. if everyone could only get rubber bullets then there'd be a lot less killing. if you want to hunt use a crossbow or a fucking knife like a man. It's little unfair to shoot a deer with a scoped rifle from far away. or make strict hunting license controls.

Youre a moron. Im gonna hope for your sake that this is a lame attempt at trolling

Also this is a news article from August of this year.
http://www.kcci.com/news/airsoft-pistols-or-real-guns-can-you-tell-the-difference/27776564

I have come to the conclusion that this is the biggest problem I have surrounding this tragic event: Fake guns should be indistinguishably fake.



We have seen the same issues with Cap guns, and water pistols. Why this hasn't been made out as a bigger issue I have no clue. Hopefully at the end of this they see the problem I am seeing, and that's that fake guns that look like real guns should be illegal to sell/buy. In addition to that, Mental Health Treatment should be a free service for everyone no matter who you are.

mightybooshI will say this: I am 99.9% sure that in the UK, or many other European countries this incident would not have resulted in the death of a 12 year old boy.

Two years ago in Dutchland a 17 year old kiddo who had just threatened some people in a station was approached by the police, upon hearing the Dutch equivalent of "hands up" he turned round and grabbed for his pocket, he was shot, fatally. It was deemed the correct course of action.

Your 0,1%

mightybooshIt is with a system of high firearm availability, where the premise of a 12 year old boy having a loaded gun in a park is entirely plausible, and where the majority of officers are licensed and supported to fire upon any perceived threat.

So sad that our police have to feel afraid of 12 year olds in a playground. Our society has become so paranoid of shooters that any person that might be a threat (which can be anything it seems nowadays) results in the loss of innocent life. Something as simple as letting your kid play with an airsoft gun can get them killed...

I'm disappointed in the people saying that the kid should have known better too. He was a 12 year old kid. He wasn't an adult capable of comprehending the threat. What 12 year old thinks that they might get gunned down for having a toy, I sure as well wouldn't have when I was that age.

saskskierPlease elaborate on what those harm prevention strategies are in a suicide by cop situation. I'm genuinely interested.

article is from 2011: http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2011/03/10/suicide-by-cop



Listen to the audio clip at the top of the page in the link.

saskskierThat's not what I said at all. I gave an example of why police go into those situations on edge. Police are trained to use lethal force as a last resort. When someone reaches for a gun, police do what they are trained to do in that situation...

Also, we have no idea what the kid was thinking when he reached for the gun. Maybe he was going to put it down. Maybe he was going to be all gangster and threaten the police. Unfortunately, we'll never know. It's not fair to make a judgement on his cognitive ability.

No, police are clearly not trained to use deadly force as a last resort, otherwise there would not be a dead 12 year old. I bring up his cognitive ability only because the brain is no where near developed enough at the age of 12 to deal with such a situation.

Seriously, what does it say about or society that when a cop comes across a kid with something resembling a gun, his first instinct is to assume the child intends on killing him?

~~~~~~~~No, police are clearly not trained to use deadly force as a last resort, otherwise there would not be a dead 12 year old. I bring up his cognitive ability only because the brain is no where near developed enough at the age of 12 to deal with such a situation.

Seriously, what does it say about or society that when a cop comes across a kid with something resembling a gun, his first instinct is to assume the child intends on killing him?

Some 12 year olds are dicks and don't listen regardless of what you tell them. Half my job is dealing with those kids. Not always a reflection of cognitive ability.

Also, an airsoft gun doesnt resemlbe a gun. It is a gun. From 10-15-20 feet away, not necessarily easily distinguishable from something deadly.

saskskierSome 12 year olds are dicks and don't listen regardless of what you tell them. Half my job is dealing with those kids. Not always a reflection of cognitive ability.

Also, an airsoft gun doesnt resemlbe a gun. It is a gun. From 10-15-20 feet away, not necessarily easily distinguishable from something deadly.

Yes, some 12 year olds are dicks and won't listen regardless of what you tell them, because they are 12.

But why are we assuming a 12 year old would have a gun over the much more logical option of a toy like we all used to play with growing up?

Do you see what my issue is here?

saskskierAlso, an airsoft gun doesnt resemlbe a gun. It is a gun. From 10-15-20 feet away, not necessarily easily distinguishable from something deadly.

The airsoft gun in question, from a distance this indeed becomes awfully real.

this shit has got to stop

omnidataThe airsoft gun in question, from a distance this indeed becomes awfully real.

Even close that looks ridiculously close to the real thing.

apparently there is a video from a surveillance camera where you can clearly see the altercation. No other details about the video besides they were under a gazebo, and that they plan on eventually releasing it

even if they had gotten word it was fake
and a kid whips one of these out, do you think you could tell the difference between these guns? the officer did the right move.

DreddSteveWhat 12 year old thinks that they might get gunned down for having a toy, I sure as well wouldn't have when I was that age.

well you were a really stupid 12 year old then.

I had friends who are now in Arlington on account of 12 year old boys.

Point something that looks like a gun at me, and you will get an early meeting with god. I don't hold this one against the police officer. Although, on account of the kid's race, I am sure many will.

So, um, for context on this one.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_police_officer_shot_1.html?hootPostID=09fa94c1dad600dd537d9070c534331b

Warning: This shit is "graphic." I think it's also necessary for having an informed discussion on this situation. I probably shouldn't even post this because I'm not going to get into a debate over it. I think what happened was wrong. I think that after watching this video, the cops acted wrongly. That is not enough to convince most people in this debate. That's fine.

Turner.Warning: This shit is "graphic." I think it's also necessary for having an informed discussion on this situation. I probably shouldn't even post this because I'm not going to get into a debate over it. I think what happened was wrong. I think that after watching this video, the cops acted wrongly. That is not enough to convince most people in this debate. That's fine.

Ugh, sorry, I said I wouldn't debate it then immediately stated an opinion.

skiersupremeeven if they had gotten word it was fake
and a kid whips one of these out, do you think you could tell the difference between these guns? the officer did the right move.

one of those is a BB gun?

also where are the kids parents? he's just running around a park with a BB gun with no parents around at all? I'd take my kids home if some idiots left there kid running around with a projectile weapon of some sort.

Turner.So, um, for context on this one.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_police_officer_shot_1.html?hootPostID=09fa94c1dad600dd537d9070c534331b

Warning: This shit is "graphic." I think it's also necessary for having an informed discussion on this situation. I probably shouldn't even post this because I'm not going to get into a debate over it. I think what happened was wrong. I think that after watching this video, the cops acted wrongly. That is not enough to convince most people in this debate. That's fine.

woah. what kind of police training is that? you drive right up to the suspect you think has a handgun?

k-robman i can`t wait to be a cop. i always wanna shoot other peoples little kids dead. i mean it`s my dream to be a child-killer. this is what i`ve been training for. protecting myself by any means necessary, from harmless tiny children, and using deadly force without hesitation, before the kid has a chance to pull the fake trigger. plus chicks dig the uniform, especially if it`s got some 12 year-old`s blood on it.

Shut the fuck up