Thinking about purchasing an avalanche airbag

I finally bit the bullet this season and got my self an ABS. I liked that you could choose what ever pack you wanted, I settled for EVOC because it had the best ski carry options. (although side ski carry is restricted to under 140 wide (which fat ski tips are often more).

The reason I went for ABS was the system. It's pretty flawless, Gas canisters with gunpowder armed trigger. Nothing complicated. decent size air bags on each side of the sack. If you look you can get the base unit for around 600. so with a zip on 700.

When the snowpulse inflates it pushes your head forward and restricts all vision so if you do stay on your feet you can't see shit.

I got putt off by the BCA because it's just a pillow at the top of the bag didn't really fill me with confidence.

And with the new BD pack that is coming out I don't like the idea of needing an electrical fan to inflate it just seems like to much can go wrong (although im sure its proven)

-SnowSnoli-I finally bit the bullet this season and got my self an ABS. I liked that you could choose what ever pack you wanted, I settled for EVOC because it had the best ski carry options. (although side ski carry is restricted to under 140 wide (which fat ski tips are often more).

The reason I went for ABS was the system. It's pretty flawless, Gas canisters with gunpowder armed trigger. Nothing complicated. decent size air bags on each side of the sack. If you look you can get the base unit for around 600. so with a zip on 700.

When the snowpulse inflates it pushes your head forward and restricts all vision so if you do stay on your feet you can't see shit.

I got putt off by the BCA because it's just a pillow at the top of the bag didn't really fill me with confidence.

And with the new BD pack that is coming out I don't like the idea of needing an electrical fan to inflate it just seems like to much can go wrong (although im sure its proven)

Thanks, I'm also considering ABS as the best option for me.

What is the difference between vario and vario silver base unit? Also if you inflate the bag, is the canister refillable or do i need to buy a new one? same on the gunpowder trigger, is it reuseable or do i need a new one

Just curious....what avalanche training do you have?

I'd honestly tell you that you should invest that 500-1000$ in furthering your education instead of buying a false sense of security. If you find yourself pulling a bag, well, I promise you've made at least one huge mistake already, and more likely several, mistakes that are almost always obvious to professionals after the fact. I don't know the exact stat so excuse me, but in some scary percentage of fatal avy accidents, investigators noted that the victim ignored, missed, or underestimated 1 or more glaring issues in the snowpack.....I think the most common was people skinning right past recent avy activity on a similar slope/aspect en route to their planned ascent/descent.

I'm not knocking the use of bags, but I live in CO......Summit County....and I see a lot of people buy a bag and treat it like Superman's cape.

My work issues me a bag (mammut), and I use it (more so because if I get caught in something and made the decision to not take advantage of an available and work-provided safety device, I'm afraid it could hurt me legally/financially), but there's this strange tendency for people to make increasingly risky decisions because they feel a security that doesn't exist. There was a similar phenomenon back when beacons became standard equipment. Everyone expected that avy deaths would go down due to improved equipment. What they found instead was that the deaths went up. They believe it was because whatever gain in safety was wiped out by the fact that people with little experience or knowledge factored wearing a beacon into what the decided was an acceptable risk. Of course, we know now that beacons are used a lot more for body recovery than they are for live recovery, so that effect dwindled, but it could happen again with bags.

As a pack the mammut is actually pretty damn comfortable, holds a lot, and the load sits in a great spot (transporting up to maybe 30-40lbs of explosives anyway, never carried more), I also like the a-frame ski carry design. If anything, it's really fucking heavy though!! even carrying nothing more than lunch/snacks and a layer or whatever, the cannister is fucking burly. It's not terrible because of how it sits, and the waist strap/chest strap is well-designed, but it is something to consider when shopping around, especially if you're skinning/hiking to a zone instead of hitting sled laps.

In other words, and I'm sorry if this came across as condescending, just don't be lulled into complacency because you've got an airbag. If you're 17, have limited experience, and a bag, you're pretty much the poster child for bad news. Keep that in mind. That doesn't mean you have to make decisions or behave like an inexperienced, overconfident 17 year old, though. I know a kid who just turned 21 who eats my lunch not only as a skier, but a sledder, a routefinder, and pretty much any other barometer of mountain safety/travel. So, age is just a number, but then again, that kid grew up doing it day in day out, and is just a gnarly motherfucker.

No substitue for information, practice, and experience. Link up with some older people who live that lifestyle, and soak it all up.

-SnowSnoli-I finally bit the bullet this season and got my self an ABS. I liked that you could choose what ever pack you wanted, I settled for EVOC because it had the best ski carry options. (although side ski carry is restricted to under 140 wide (which fat ski tips are often more).

The reason I went for ABS was the system. It's pretty flawless, Gas canisters with gunpowder armed trigger. Nothing complicated. decent size air bags on each side of the sack. If you look you can get the base unit for around 600. so with a zip on 700.

When the snowpulse inflates it pushes your head forward and restricts all vision so if you do stay on your feet you can't see shit.

I got putt off by the BCA because it's just a pillow at the top of the bag didn't really fill me with confidence.

And with the new BD pack that is coming out I don't like the idea of needing an electrical fan to inflate it just seems like to much can go wrong (although im sure its proven)

I too have an evoc abs pack, no complaints so far, I havent had to use it yet thank god

casualJust curious....what avalanche training do you have?

I'd honestly tell you that you should invest that 500-1000$ in furthering your education instead of buying a false sense of security. If you find yourself pulling a bag, well, I promise you've made at least one huge mistake already, and more likely several, mistakes that are almost always obvious to professionals after the fact. I don't know the exact stat so excuse me, but in some scary percentage of fatal avy accidents, investigators noted that the victim ignored, missed, or underestimated 1 or more glaring issues in the snowpack.....I think the most common was people skinning right past recent avy activity on a similar slope/aspect en route to their planned ascent/descent.

I'm not knocking the use of bags, but I live in CO......Summit County....and I see a lot of people buy a bag and treat it like Superman's cape.

My work issues me a bag (mammut), and I use it (more so because if I get caught in something and made the decision to not take advantage of an available and work-provided safety device, I'm afraid it could hurt me legally/financially), but there's this strange tendency for people to make increasingly risky decisions because they feel a security that doesn't exist. There was a similar phenomenon back when beacons became standard equipment. Everyone expected that avy deaths would go down due to improved equipment. What they found instead was that the deaths went up. They believe it was because whatever gain in safety was wiped out by the fact that people with little experience or knowledge factored wearing a beacon into what the decided was an acceptable risk. Of course, we know now that beacons are used a lot more for body recovery than they are for live recovery, so that effect dwindled, but it could happen again with bags.

As a pack the mammut is actually pretty damn comfortable, holds a lot, and the load sits in a great spot (transporting up to maybe 30-40lbs of explosives anyway, never carried more), I also like the a-frame ski carry design. If anything, it's really fucking heavy though!! even carrying nothing more than lunch/snacks and a layer or whatever, the cannister is fucking burly. It's not terrible because of how it sits, and the waist strap/chest strap is well-designed, but it is something to consider when shopping around, especially if you're skinning/hiking to a zone instead of hitting sled laps.

In other words, and I'm sorry if this came across as condescending, just don't be lulled into complacency because you've got an airbag. If you're 17, have limited experience, and a bag, you're pretty much the poster child for bad news. Keep that in mind. That doesn't mean you have to make decisions or behave like an inexperienced, overconfident 17 year old, though. I know a kid who just turned 21 who eats my lunch not only as a skier, but a sledder, a routefinder, and pretty much any other barometer of mountain safety/travel. So, age is just a number, but then again, that kid grew up doing it day in day out, and is just a gnarly motherfucker.

No substitue for information, practice, and experience. Link up with some older people who live that lifestyle, and soak it all up.

Damn, that was a great reply. I haven't taken any avy courses, only studied at internet. You're 100% right. The reason I'm thinking of buying an airbag is probably because of my lack of knowledge. I know I sound like you mentioned, but I'm taking this seriously and age 17 might sound too young for such investment, but better get it early, cause I'd probably buy one later if I didn't buy it now.
The problem on avy courses is that there isnt any mountains near me. I'd have to travel north or to Alps for the course. I'm still not sure on what to do.

FrankerZDamn, that was a great reply. I haven't taken any avy courses, only studied at internet. You're 100% right. The reason I'm thinking of buying an airbag is probably because of my lack of knowledge. I know I sound like you mentioned, but I'm taking this seriously and age 17 might sound too young for such investment, but better get it early, cause I'd probably buy one later if I didn't buy it now.
The problem on avy courses is that there isnt any mountains near me. I'd have to travel north or to Alps for the course. I'm still not sure on what to do.

I would definitely invest the money and your time in getting at least some basic avalanche training before you even consider buying an airbag. They are a nice safety feature, but I think if you are putting yourself in situation where you even think you might need to have one, then you're making poor decisions out in the backcountry.

Invest the time and money in gaining knowledge. If you have to, travel to the closest place that offers avalanche courses. It's good that you've read online, but you can only learn so much from reading. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and stay safe out there.

FrankerZThanks, I'm also considering ABS as the best option for me.

What is the difference between vario and vario silver base unit? Also if you inflate the bag, is the canister refillable or do i need to buy a new one? same on the gunpowder trigger, is it reuseable or do i need a new one

The Vario silver has a slimmer profile, but to be honest the vario is slim enough for most people.

The canisters and trigger are not refillable/reusable. What you do is take both to an ABS dealer and they change both. giving you a new handle and cartridge, but you just pay the refill which is normally around $40. ($100+ if you dont hand back the cartridge).

As far as the other guy reply goes. It's great advice. Avy course experience and learning about snow packs will always be better. BUT, from a Euro point of view. I consider an airbag to be a part of an avy kit now. Sure people consider them a superman thing. But honestly when used correctly with the right frame of mine, it can mean the difference life or death. It is no substitute for common sense.

I work in a shop so I know the deal. I hate people who buy without avy training. But I know a few situations unfortunately where an avalanche has happened and only the guys wearing a bag survived. I think that's what made me finally buy one.

-SnowSnoli-The Vario silver has a slimmer profile, but to be honest the vario is slim enough for most people.

The canisters and trigger are not refillable/reusable. What you do is take both to an ABS dealer and they change both. giving you a new handle and cartridge, but you just pay the refill which is normally around $40. ($100+ if you dont hand back the cartridge).

As far as the other guy reply goes. It's great advice. Avy course experience and learning about snow packs will always be better. BUT, from a Euro point of view. I consider an airbag to be a part of an avy kit now. Sure people consider them a superman thing. But honestly when used correctly with the right frame of mine, it can mean the difference life or death. It is no substitute for common sense.

I work in a shop so I know the deal. I hate people who buy without avy training. But I know a few situations unfortunately where an avalanche has happened and only the guys wearing a bag survived. I think that's what made me finally buy one.

Alright, Thanks for the good answers.

I feel like this is pretty relevant to your situation

http://bombsnow.com/archives/skier-buys-airbag-gopro-now-ready-for-the-backcountry

All of the systems work. Fit is the most important thing and is very personal - try each of your options fully loaded up.

As was stated above, no airbag is a substitute for lack of knowledge, as the point is to not get yourself in a situation where you need to deploy the bag.

That being said, I was really impressed with the new "Jetforce" system in the BD bags. No canister, the fan is actually sewn into the bag, and is extremely powerful. You won't hesitate to pull it because you don't need to fork out $25 to fill up a canister each time, and if your bag hits branches or anything sharp while in a slide (pretty likely actually), the fan is strong enough to keep it inflated with a large (I think they said about 8 inch) tear. In a canister bag, it inflates once and that's it. The fan kicks on repeatedly for 3 minutes and then after the dust settles, self deflates leaving you an air pocket.

OP next time you go to the Alps spend your time doing a Avalanche course. IF your traveling with friends who also want to go in the BC get a whole group of people and set up a private avi course. Then you could even choose your date.
Like said above I feel airbags give false sense of security.

Knowledge/experience before gear. Take an full on Avalanche class, It will do you more good than any other tool on the market.

I picked up the Oakley snowmad RAS snow pulse with removable airbag by mammut and its comfy and can carry a lot. It's on oakleyvault for $150 normally $225 but without airbag. I got it and got a steal on the airbag n cartridge.
I have question what's an avalung? Is it as good as an airbag, similar or something additional to your airbag? They don't seem to got soo much attention as do the bags.

dctalk16I have question what's an avalung? Is it as good as an airbag, similar or something additional to your airbag? They don't seem to got soo much attention as do the bags.

Think of it like a snorkel, its basically a tube you put in your mouth with an airpocket to give you more time. The reason they dont get much press is because its pretty flawed.
Can you imagine trying to keep a snorkel in your mouth when you get caught by an avalanche? I know i can't

FrankerZI'm going to be traveling in planes with the bag, so it has to be ok on airplanes.

canisters don't go on planes. they have warnings and shit on them. you'll have to take the pack on the plane without the canister and buy another one in BC or buy the pack in BC.

FrankerZThe problem on avy courses is that there isnt any mountains near me. I'd have to travel north or to Alps for the course. I'm still not sure on what to do.

You go to the course or you don't go at all. You need to get your backcountry 101(if its called that in europe) and then go into the backcountry, use your tools, and apply what you learned. Every single avy course is really only a intro and you will learn more everyday you look at hazards and snowpack.

You could always get a guide as well.

Skibumsmithcanisters don't go on planes. they have warnings and shit on them. you'll have to take the pack on the plane without the canister and buy another one in BC or buy the pack in BC.

Wrong for the rest of the world inc canada will let you fly with USED can ABS canisters as the box it gives you the code that means its safe to fly with them. (sure some airlines will refuse) but if you ring in advance, travel with the canister w/trigger in the box and not in the pack you will be good.

For USA the TSA won't allow them full stop.

I'd recommend getting a book which explains state of the art risk management methods like 3x3 or the reduction method. Can't really give further recommendations though, since all the books I know are in german...

Also skiing with someone more experienced and discussing decisions helps a lot.

spend your money on a class, then play it cautious till you can afford an air bag later. the knowledge and ability to recognize risk areas and avoid them is far more important to you and your friends than the ability to stay on top of the moving snow and hope your didn't sustain any other injuries or trauma.

-SnowSnoli-Think of it like a snorkel, its basically a tube you put in your mouth with an airpocket to give you more time. The reason they dont get much press is because its pretty flawed.
Can you imagine trying to keep a snorkel in your mouth when you get caught by an avalanche? I know i can't

Ahhh I see. Maybe people should carry a oxygen tank with a regulator lol. There is something called spare air in scuba diving and it's a little canister with mouth piece that incase you run out of air or something happens it gives you about 15 min to resurface. Does anyone make something like this and would this even be helpful? It depends on so many factors but on the event of a slide before the snow settles you think a person would have time to use something like this; being that most avalanche deaths are caused by asphyxiation.

dctalk16Ahhh I see. Maybe people should carry a oxygen tank with a regulator lol. There is something called spare air in scuba diving and it's a little canister with mouth piece that incase you run out of air or something happens it gives you about 15 min to resurface. Does anyone make something like this and would this even be helpful? It depends on so many factors but on the event of a slide before the snow settles you think a person would have time to use something like this; being that most avalanche deaths are caused by asphyxiation.

I'm assuming that would be wayyyy heavy, but could be a descent idea. I'm very interested to see if that's possible.

dctalk16Ahhh I see. Maybe people should carry a oxygen tank with a regulator lol. There is something called spare air in scuba diving and it's a little canister with mouth piece that incase you run out of air or something happens it gives you about 15 min to resurface. Does anyone make something like this and would this even be helpful? It depends on so many factors but on the event of a slide before the snow settles you think a person would have time to use something like this; being that most avalanche deaths are caused by asphyxiation.

The problem is getting the mouth piece attached to your face and having it stay there. Avalanches are pretty violent. A huge problem with the avalung previously mentioned is that keeping it in your mouth is hard. The other problem with the avalung is if you don't create a good seal on it snow will get shoved down you throat.

The best floatations of an airbag is the northface/abs airbag.

But I do recromend this one from abs that wraps around your head making kinda of a coccun so you don't get injured more.


I think you should go with an abs. The zipper system is brilliant, so you can change bags whenever.

Happy skiing!

nickmcnuttAs was stated above, no airbag is a substitute for lack of knowledge, as the point is to not get yourself in a situation where you need to deploy the bag.

That being said, I was really impressed with the new "Jetforce" system in the BD bags. No canister, the fan is actually sewn into the bag, and is extremely powerful. You won't hesitate to pull it because you don't need to fork out $25 to fill up a canister each time, and if your bag hits branches or anything sharp while in a slide (pretty likely actually), the fan is strong enough to keep it inflated with a large (I think they said about 8 inch) tear. In a canister bag, it inflates once and that's it. The fan kicks on repeatedly for 3 minutes and then after the dust settles, self deflates leaving you an air pocket.

Yeah I think the new generation of airbags will really help them take off more. The multi use function is huge I think. It will keep costs down and also help with travel issues. I really like the arcterxy ones tht are on the way as well as the black diamond ones.

nickmcnuttAs was stated above, no airbag is a substitute for lack of knowledge, as the point is to not get yourself in a situation where you need to deploy the bag.

That being said, I was really impressed with the new "Jetforce" system in the BD bags. No canister, the fan is actually sewn into the bag, and is extremely powerful. You won't hesitate to pull it because you don't need to fork out $25 to fill up a canister each time, and if your bag hits branches or anything sharp while in a slide (pretty likely actually), the fan is strong enough to keep it inflated with a large (I think they said about 8 inch) tear. In a canister bag, it inflates once and that's it. The fan kicks on repeatedly for 3 minutes and then after the dust settles, self deflates leaving you an air pocket.

At first that sounded like a shitty idea, but the fact that you can potentially be left with a significant sized air bubble and that it can be ripped is a great idea.

After being in a gnarly avalanche last season I will definitely be buying one and I was originally set on an ABS because they can come in a vest style but I may consider one of these instead.

Again making the right decision is far more valuable than these bags.

dctalk16Ahhh I see. Maybe people should carry a oxygen tank with a regulator lol. There is something called spare air in scuba diving and it's a little canister with mouth piece that incase you run out of air or something happens it gives you about 15 min to resurface. Does anyone make something like this and would this even be helpful? It depends on so many factors but on the event of a slide before the snow settles you think a person would have time to use something like this; being that most avalanche deaths are caused by asphyxiation.

weight could be an issue, also, most of the scuba ones have the mouthpiece right off the canister's valve, when you're buried you wouldn't be able to get to something in your pack or even jacket. having an external regulator could work, but there will be issues of keeping it in your mouth as you're being tossed down the mountain.