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religion: an over positive thing?
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personally, i believe that all religions have accomplished very positive things for the world. it gives people something to believe in, be educated about, and religion gives people a sense of untiy. but on the other hand, it has created a ridiculous amount of confilcit and death over the years. it would be amazing to count the deaths caused simply by religion (the holocaust for example.) what do you guys think
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**NWFT**
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hahahahahah you silly jon, every war in the bloody history of mankind has been fought over religion...positive...please
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Every? Hmm...I can think of a few that weren't....for example, the civil war (fought over slavery and other issues, but not religion).
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yah religion today does have lots of aspects like the ones you mentioned, however the main reason for that is because it has been twisted over time, and a lot of the true messages have been caught up in bueracratic dogma. like i mentioned Im a skeptic who also has many moral objections to christianity and other organized religion. However since I was raised RC I do realize that when it first start the message that jesus preeched was one of tolerance and love. At its beginning it wasnt like it is today. However starting with constantine's decision to march into battle under a christian banner christianity was twisted and manipulated to a point where it is no longer recognizable. It can be argued that a similar thing happened with Islam, Mahumod's (i cant spell) message began to become a bit more militant once he was no longer an outcast. The point I'm trying to make is yes that religion has cause bloody wars, used as justification for things like slavery and totrture, and today is still in many cases used to condemn people who act in a certain way. However while all of these things I have mentioned are horrible, they werent really caused by religion. They were caused by people who ignored the true message of faith because they desire power. Actual Christianity doesnt advocate any of these things, it people that do.
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^^ Probably the best post I've seen in this thread. Well done sir.
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Thanks man. And one thing I forgot to mention in there was that i noticed that people were saying without religion hitler would have not have had jews to persecute, or certain wars would not have been fought ect.. I used to take the same standpoint, but what you learn is that while religion was a part of these conflicts, its mere existance is not the cause. People are the cause, mankind is imperfect. Without religion hitler would have still found a reason to massacre people of the jewish race or some other race and wars similar to the crusades would still have occured. In these situation religion was just an easy vessel to carry certain peoples hate and greed. Its a shame that it ended up that way
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i think religion is a great thing, what do you got to loose if you believe in religion, nothing. it gives you a positive outlook on life.
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are you sure there was no religion in there...for example what church's should hold power, etc
really I'm actually asking because I have no clue
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Yeah Hitler outlawed religion and replaced every cross on every church in Germany with a swastica. The halocast had nothing to do with religion at all. It was more an issue of the ocult. Religion has killed lots of other people besides the holocast though. I think most of these deaths can be attributed to circumstances when people become fundamentalist in their beliefs and develop beliefs that aren't in tune with the main stream beliefs of that religion. The larger issue is when fundamentalists become more mainstream, like modern islam. To islam's credit, something like 90% of the 1 billion muslims in the world are peaceful and non fundamentalists. But, if you do the math that leaves 10%, or 100 million fundamentalist muslims in the world, and that is a huge issue. Oh, and hamas (sp?) just won the election in Palestine. Funny when democracy in the middle east completely backfires...between hamas (sp????) being in control of Palestine and the clown that just came into power in Iran things could get interesting...
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well see now, that is a very grave misconception. at least for christianity, the whole appeal of it is that god knew that people couldn't completely conform to his standards, so he offered salvation by faith because he didn't want people to go to hell (overly simplified). anyways, the point is, christianity isn't about conformity. the same is probably true about most other religions except when they're taken to the extremes, in which case it's probably not even about religion anymore.
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well, religion is often tacked on to wars by both sides just for the sake of gaining some kind of moral justification for their actions and to get support from the religious groups.
im pretty sure that WWI and II were not based on religion at all. it wasn't a religious force setting out to convert the world, unless you consider the USA capitalist drive versus the communist drive in WWII as religions.
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god buried the dinosaurs..........
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no, gay marriage killed the dinosaurs.
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many people here are misenturpriting...wow that can't be how you spell that...the word 'religion'
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Deffinetly a positive thing
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i just don't see why people have a faith in nothing. there is no substance in religion and all evidence contadicts it.
being a good person>going to church, and they are defnenitly not the same thing.
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Relgion opinions should be kept to urself, the reason it cause's conflict is because people bring it up and start arguing about whos beliefs is right. Its a sense of inner peace u might say. But when you have people saying that if u not catholic for example ur going to go to hell. That is wat starts wars
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USA vs Communism in WWII, you need to get your history straight.
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Sorry for the history lesson but:
It is said that hitler was against the jews because of WWI. while he was fighting and getting gased (which is why he never gased soldiers(the action a man takes to hurt another man is usually the one he is afraid of the most)) he saw that the germans on the homefront were recognizing more about the nature of the war and began to protest it... one of the leading groups of the protests were a jewish group.
Fast forward a decade and hitler gained power when he led the nazi party. During the depression germany still had to pay reparation from the last war and was getting fucked in the ass. Prostitution was rampent, poverty, inflation... HItler handed out food to the people and because of this gained power of the people. By 33 when he finally took over as a fascist dictator he began instilling the ideas that jews were the antisociety and the root of all evil. This lead to crystal night, constant persecution, the haulocaust, and 90 percent of the jewish population in poland gone... 6 million jews, 13 million total. One thing that bothers me is hitler killed 13 million and stalin killed 20. But nobody mentions that because he was on our side... sort of.
(Moral of story being he didn't kill them for their beliefs but their actions... really sad that a little protest can create so much hatred and destruction)
As for my beliefs... ive gone to catholic school for thirteen years and if i get into my number one it will be another four and more if i like it. I've seen good and bad things. I've seen very united communites and families. Ive seen good parents raising their kids with good ideals. Ive also seen a lot of hypocracy. (Always well intwined with religion) I myself am not catholic. Still searching for the right religion. (As quoted in "Rudy" there are two known facts my life, there is a god and im not him.) But last year one mother ripped me out because i was dating her christian daughter and i went to a catholic school. She was afraid i would convert her. Sucks to say but i broke up with the girl for it. (She acted like her mother at times and i feared for the worst) I've seen so much shit like that in my area.
I think if people chilled out a little bit and stopped fighting about who's invisible friend is better, and realize its called a faith for a reason. There would be less fighting. You don't know a faith, its a belief that god, allah, budda, mohammed, or whoever you pray to... exist. If you knew they existed you would call it a "know" and not a faith.
Ok im done
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it's a good thing- without it nobody would have morals
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the holocaust was was certainly partially caused and fueled by religion. there was so much deeply engraved anti-semitism in the catholic church (in particularly germany). there are so many damn causes to the holocaust that its unreal, but, it is senseless to say that religion did not play a part at all, when it really did.
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