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Graphic Design at Montana State University?

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TheBigOP
Posts: 134 - Karma: 66
If anybody has experience with this program any reviews would be helpful. Also if anyone has experience with either of the design programs at Western Washington or Champlain and could give a review I would be greatly appreciative. Thank You.
Dec 14 2013 5:43PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
don't major in graphic design. it is one of the quickest dying fields you can major in now. while it used to be an artform, anyone and their mother can create a logo. forbes, kiplinger and MSN money all list it as one of the worst things to major in. major in something that'll make money, minor in graphic design
Dec 14 2013 7:41PM
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RawrRawrRob
Posts: 1841 - Karma: 685
Though I agreed with this at first, but if it's your passion then go for it. Passion over pay check any day.
Dec 14 2013 10:37PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
when your passion's median salary is like mid 30k, you should pick a major that will pay enough to support your life and pursue your passion on the side
Dec 14 2013 10:49PM
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TheBigOP
Posts: 134 - Karma: 66
yea I've been hearing this and am considering majoring in something else but bump for answers anyways.
Dec 15 2013 1:37AM
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bigbromskier
Posts: 1175 - Karma: 330
I don't have anything to compare it to but some of the kids I know who were in the program had a pretty good time with it and made it worthwhile in the end; i.e. getting jobs with established firms (K2 for one) through internships or starting their own thing afterwards.

I took one two-week intensive summer studio in the program and nathan (forget his last name) and all the other faculty are awesome and the studio's pretty sweet. just know that you'll only get out of it what you put into it. design programs take a lot of time and you're usually having all your hard work basically shoved back in your face. but if you aren't getting shitty critiques it's probably not a very good place to be cause it's what makes you better in the end.

def consider that it's not like engineering or something that sets you up for a career right away, but if you're creative and like visual arts and problem solving it's a really interesting, fun major that you can get a lot out of for both professional and personal pursuits.
bozeman's a sick town too so there's always that going for it.
Dec 15 2013 2:43AM
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2_fadez
Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,180
>Graphic Design
>Montana State

I'm jealous you'll get to work in a ski shop when you graduate
Dec 15 2013 3:42AM
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eheath
Posts: 61104 - Karma: 118,268
How is 30k such a low wage? thats a large chunk of money, why does everyone need so much money these days?
Dec 15 2013 4:09AM
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eheath
Posts: 61104 - Karma: 118,268
How is 30k such a low wage? thats a large chunk of money, why does everyone need so much money these days?
Dec 15 2013 4:10AM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
to live the American dream? Home ownership and family?
Dec 15 2013 4:13AM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
living on $2500 a month, before taxes? as a general guideline in the us, usually 45-55% of your income goes towards various taxes. on the low end, 40% of a $30k income leaves you with $18,000 a year. divide that by 12, and living on $1500 a month now is extremely hard to do, especially in today's economy. that's how making 30k a year before taxes is such a small wage
Dec 15 2013 5:50AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
I can't attest to how the field is doing as a whole, but, in the hiring forum, Graphic Designer is the most popular now hiring thread. Not just any companies either, Armada, K2, Scott etc. Companies NSers want. So maybe not the best field for someone with no hobbies, but needed in our industry.
Dec 15 2013 8:34AM
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TheBigOP
Posts: 134 - Karma: 66
thanks for all the input. Does anyone have experience with any of the other schools/programs I listed, especially Western? Thanks
Dec 15 2013 12:46PM
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Dr.Dickless
Posts: 2620 - Karma: 1,392
Member kaydawg is in it right now, you could PM her but she doesn't come on very much
Dec 15 2013 1:38PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
and this is conservative. My power bill is $150 and my HOA dues (water/sewer/garbage) are $230...and I have very low HOA dues.
Dec 15 2013 2:45PM
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eheath
Posts: 61104 - Karma: 118,268
It really all depends on where you live i guess, someone said something about how $400 a month for food was nothing and I easily live on $200-300 a month depends on how much I eat out but in college i was usually 40-50 a month for food...

I dunno, I don't even make $30k a year and I pay for all of my own shit and I live pretty comfortably, granted my car is paid off, i walk to skiing and live < 1mile from work etc but still, I live in park city which isn't a cheap place at all.

I just get irritated that kids on NS think they NEED to make $50k out of college or else their life is gonna suck.
Dec 15 2013 3:41PM
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2_fadez
Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,180
Well it's a good start if you want to have a family that can live comfortably. If you want to have kids, go on vacations, have paid off college funds, live in a house with a yard, buy christmas presents and such, you need a high salary.
There typically isn't much growth out of jobs that pay 30-40k a year out of college, and while it's definitely livable for a single guy in their 20's, there's a certain point where I'm sure you'd like to make more so that you can go and live a satisfactory life elsewhere.
I work hard in school and in a difficult major so that I can be able to afford these things in the future, and not have to live off ramen or own a shitty car. The work and effort I put in justifies the satisfaction I think I'll get out of having the extra 50k a year, and as someone who enjoys expensive stuff like skiing, traveling and eating out, I have to get the money somewhere so that I can live in what I call a comfortable and enjoyable lifestyle.

It's good to hear you enjoy your living situation despite having a low income, but as someone who has aspirations beyond that, making that little just isn't appealing to me just for the tradeoff that I get to ski everyday or didn't have to put in much work during college.
Dec 15 2013 3:54PM
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YoungJ
Posts: 447 - Karma: 883
you mean 50 dollars after the 1500 room and board fee
Dec 15 2013 3:57PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
fuck having kiddssssss bro
Dec 15 2013 4:07PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
See I agree with this right here. I was going to take a resort job and stuff to live the dream, but then I slowly realized that making 9.75 an hour to live in Tahoe isn't really doable unless my parents helped me out. I'd need a second job. So there goes the 2 days I'd want to ski on. So I'm starting to think I'd rather give skiing up for a few years in order to get a high paying job and then try to establish myself in mountain city using that job instead of lower end jobs where its a struggle every day.
Dec 15 2013 4:26PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,028
but I want to ski now.. I dont want to be responsible!!!
Dec 15 2013 4:50PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
where in any of my responses did i say this? yes it's possible to live as a single male on $30k a year or less. OP is looking at a job where the market for growth is declining increasingly and almost 200k people in competition. like i said earlier, pursue your passion as an outlet and a means for enjoyment, not a means for employment. obviously that statement is based on what your passion is, because if your passion is gonna make you a livable wage for not just year, but for your future and what that entails (a family, house, etc.) than by all means pursue that
Dec 15 2013 4:54PM
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2_fadez
Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,180
gotta make sure my shitty personality gets carried on through time somehow
Dec 15 2013 5:05PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10054 - Karma: 25,277
I've said it before, and I'll say it again but I think your portfolio is probably the most important thing for a graphic designer.

If your work is good enough they will hire you regardless of any education you may or may not have had.
It's anecdotal evidence but I've worked at a rather large ad firm and the only reason I got in was my portfolio.

Swell time, but I hated the work, and the pay.
Dec 15 2013 5:45PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
Just curious as to what you do now instead? I find it helpful to see where people start and then where they end up if they switch.
Dec 15 2013 8:32PM
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TheBigOP
Posts: 134 - Karma: 66
Bump for related answers... :)
Dec 15 2013 10:58PM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9091 - Karma: 3,016
I'm a senior in the program. It's pretty awesome. PM me with any questions.

btw I have zero qualms about being a design major. these people hating are silly. they think the only job you can get with a GD degree is being a graphic designer. what they seem to forget that designers often have some of the most diverse skill sets around. we're much like engineers; professional problem solvers.

good luck on your school search!
Dec 15 2013 11:06PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10054 - Karma: 25,277
Med school, something I've wanted to do that since I was little, it's just hard to get in in the Netherlands so I just worked as a graphic designer for a few years. What did help me in design was that my late father was an architect & graphic designer so I was not completely clueless on some of philosophy and workings behind good design.
Dec 16 2013 4:06AM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
huh.

ok. I don't know buy...in most urban places you can't begin to start family on 30k salaries. I make more than 50k and so does my husband and we are not in a financial position to afford babies.
Dec 16 2013 4:27AM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
ok. I don't know what is wrong with this post. What I meant to say was:

In most urban areas you can't begin to start a family comfortably on 30k or less/year. I make more than 50k a year and so does my husband we are not in a financial position to begin having babies. We are barely in a financial situation that allows us to afford buying a house. At 30k a piece, we would not come close.


Dec 16 2013 4:34AM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
I'ld like to testify that there are a lot of us living on 2k expendable income per year that are living very happily, well, and smart. I'm one of them... And I travel around 1/4th of the time. And... I do graphic/web design/development around 20 hours per week from home... I could work more, but it would get in the way of my traveling. And savings... I have enough to not work the next 5 months without going on unemployment. Most people can't say that. It's totally doable and can be very enjoyable. You just need to be smart. I'm insanely happy by the way.
Dec 16 2013 5:27AM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
no one in this thread ever said it wasn't possible or never happened. OP wanted to know about graphic design as a major/career and the responses in the thread reflect the truth about it - it's a dying field with generally low-salary work. and that's great you're happy! that holds no relevance though, since i guarantee you and OP have different measures of what decides you happiness
Dec 16 2013 2:51PM
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CaptainObvious.
Posts: 5711 - Karma: 20,627
This.

If you're expecting to make that, odds are your life IS going to suck.

Just get used to the idea that when you graduate college, you gotta spend a few years grinding it out before you start making big kid money. Even then...you'll always feel like you're not making enough.
Dec 16 2013 2:55PM
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bigbromskier
Posts: 1175 - Karma: 330
not really sure how you're seeing it as a dying field, but whatev. design in general, if not high paying, is very satisfying because those that do it are usually very passionate about it and are working to solve problems that almost always benefit those who experience the end result, no matter what medium it be.

“Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort.” -- F. D. mafuggin R. relevant that he solved the great depression.
Dec 16 2013 3:42PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
I have also seen it on lists of poor majors. I think most places are looking for people with a broader range of skills. I think it is just too competitive-- why hire someone who only does graphic design, when you could hire a web developer who also knows graphic design, or an application developer with a minor in graphic design.
Dec 16 2013 4:12PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147

expendable income is what you have left over once you've paid all of your bills, living expenses, insurance, gas, food, transportation expenses, etc.

So your post doesn't contradict the other posters.  The main arguments being made are that you need income to purchase a home, buy a car, have kids, etc....these are all things that don't fall under expendable income.

I don't think anyone would argue that 2,000/year after everything else has been paid for is all that bad.


Dec 16 2013 4:26PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
agh then I made an error. I meant it as after taxes and business expenses are out. I live off 24k a year paying for student loans, rent, travel, and everything else.

So yeah, 2k a month for all my bills/cost of living, i still save and i still travel.
Dec 16 2013 4:31PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
ok, then your post makes a lot more sense!
Dec 16 2013 4:40PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
fuck... i really messed that up.. I was reading/typing on my phone in bed at like 3 am. No sense.

Anyway. I live on 2k a month after business expenses and taxes are out. I do web/graphic design/development. I live very well. and very happily. I travel often. This is a realistic income for a freelance designer. I only work around 20 hours per week though. I could probably kick that up so 30 and have around 3k to do my spending a month, but it would get in the way of my personal goals. I could work 40 hours per week at a company and pull in 25 an hour or so... but i just don't want to right now.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can make 30k a year and have your passions taken care of. You can make 30k a year and live happily. You can make 30k a year and still save money. And if you're thrifty and have a partner also making 30k a year, you can raise a family on 60k a year. A lot of families do it.

If you love graphic design, you'll love your career and your life will be better for it, regardless of your income. I'd rather date a graphic designer doing what they love making 28k a year than a bartender making 50k a year who doesn't want to try anything else because they are worried about the income drop.
Dec 16 2013 4:43PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
A lot of families use government assistance as well.


Dec 16 2013 5:02PM
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2_fadez
Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,180
It's good to hear you're able to do things you love in a field you enjoy, while still living passionately off a lower income, with few hours. Being a thrifty person who knows how to make money go far is priceless.

I think it's just a more relaxing frame of mind to have the higher salary as an option, and not be forced to stay on a strict budget each month. Higher salaries tend to be in jobs that come with benefits like family health insurance, which maybe I'm wrong generalizing, but isn't usually associated with independent work or low paying jobs. While working a 40 hour week may suck ass, I'm used to the sacrifice in school already with long work days; splurging on weekends and vacations feels even better when you are in an industry that is lucrative enough to support your wants and needs on a whim, without the constant financial planning.
Dec 16 2013 5:18PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
With an approximate combined income of 105k/year, this is how my expenses break down:

8750/month before taxes=5840/month after taxes.

We have a modest condo--620 square feet, with a monthly mortgage payment of 1250 (which is really good--we have a 3.625% 30 year loan).

1250- mortgage
230- HOA dues
250- gas
560- car loans
215- student loans
heat/elec- 150
cable- 100
food-600
tuition- 1575
pets- 150
car insurance- 125
phones-paid for by our parents
Parking spot rental- 60
storage unit rental- 50
misc. expenses (oil changes, car registration, admissions, prescriptions, presents for family birthdays, etc.)-- 250

that leaves about 275/month for savings. Definitely not enough to start a family.

We're buying a house so that mortgage is about to increase from 1250 to 2500. We'll be able to handle this because the tuition expenses will end. However, it will take paying off the loans and getting some raises to afford having babies. We could have bought a less expensive house, but it wouldn't have been as good of an investment--we bought a fixer with a great location over a nicer house with a crappy one.

So is it possible to live off of and start a family with two 30k/year jobs...probably, but for some, the goal isn't just "making it work" it's living comfortably in a neighborhood you want to live in, a house that you like, and having cars/cell phones/cable and decent food.



Dec 16 2013 5:33PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
this. I mean maybe not higher salary per se, but fulltime, definitely. My husband and I both work for the government and specifically went for our jobs because of the great benefits. My husband left a high paying construction job for a lower paying government job because his private sector construction job had no benefits.
Dec 16 2013 5:35PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
I should add that in my neck of the woods-- childcare is 80.00/day per child.
Dec 16 2013 5:37PM
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eheath
Posts: 61104 - Karma: 118,268
People keep talking about making money and familys and shit...

were talking about a kid who is about to go to college, i doubt starting a family and/or marrying someone is on his radar.

It also had nothing to do with what I was talking about either.

Going through your expenses, some seem wild to me but thats because of the different places we live, its different for everyone and one makes more/less money based on the area they live/work too.

That being said, if someone straight out of college can't live off of $30k (+/- 5-10k based on where you live) a year they're super bad at spending their money.
Dec 16 2013 6:09PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
Agreed. My post was more aimed at where the conversation in the thread had gone to--which was just about living expenses, etc. rather than actually addressing OP's question.

I don't think 30k right out of college is bad at all-- the issue that I think people are addressing is that some majors/professions may start at 30k out of college, with the potential of increasing quite a bit in time, whereas maybe some professions start at 30k and really don't have much room for upward mobility.


Dec 16 2013 6:13PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
he's not looking at it as a just out of college job, he's looking at it as a career. while $30k a year may be a decent salary for someone straight out of college, the stark amount of growth that's not existent in the industry makes it a poor career choice. making $30k for the rest of your life sounds like a horrible idea
Dec 16 2013 6:14PM
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nkmo.
Posts: 3994 - Karma: 285
Designer here.

If you don't already have some skills and aren't 100% sure that you want to be a designer, then pick something different.

If you are serious, then I would suggest doing a two year program or minoring in GD, and majoring in something relatable like Marketing, Business or Communications. You will be a far more valuable asset if you can prove that you bring more to the table than the ability to make pretty pictures.

I wouldn't say that Graphic Design is a dying career, but it is definitely evolving. You can't really be just a print designer anymore, and it seems a lot of schools are slow on realizing this. You need to be able to code or illustrate or do motion graphics. Employers aren't looking for one-trick ponies, they want someone who can do everything.

Everyone in here is making a big deal about salary, but they don't really get the industry. Median salary for a GD is 30-40k depending on where you look. Not amazing for a recent grad, but not terrible either. However, after 5-10 years, if you are good at what you do, you should be able to move into an Art Director position. Median salary 70-80k. There is also the availability of extra income through freelance work, which can be pretty lucrative, $50-200/hr.

I knew going into it that I wasn't going to be swimming in cash, but I'm very happy with where I am, and what I've experienced because of my decisions. I've worked with professional athletes, dined in all the dopest spots in the city, seen the best live music, and am currently doing work with some of the biggest companies in the action sports world. Not bad for someone just a couple years out of school.




Dec 16 2013 7:06PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
This... Sooo much this...

I lost track a bit with the "loving life on 30k a year" bit. I'd agree that it's very difficult to just be print or just logo or whatever. There are a lot of jobs with creative agencies and you do a bit of everything. I don't really know of many programs that are still just one thing though. Even the courses I was taking, you're required to do web design. At my alma mater, you automatically received a minor in marketing with the program. I feel there is a lot of opportunity in the world of graphic design and having an additional base be it with digital media or marketing leaves you with a lot of opportunity although not very high pay.

Again, I am incredibly happy with what I make. And I work part time by choice. So I suppose I'd be considered mid level now in that the careers I typically look at are in the 40 - 70k a year range. Then you have enough experience and you become a project manager, marking director, art director, brand manager... there is a lot of opportunity to move up. Marketing director or CFO/CEO of a Creative agency is about the cap of it... but I know my project manager is making around 80k a year. I have no idea what the owner is making.

In the mean time... if anyone tells you that 30k isn't enough to survive on for 1 - 10 years outside of college.... they are horribly mistaken. If you expect a glamorous life out of college... you can have it, you just need to be super frugal and make sure by glamour, you mean cool as fuck and filled with adventure.
Dec 16 2013 7:20PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
Okay I hear you guys, but when you claim like that I want details. What athletes have you had contact with? Which companies, and what are you doing for them? And what dope spots have you eaten at? I really want to be sold on it, but so many people make vague claims that I'm curious to really see what your saying. Genuinely interested, not trying to be rude.
Dec 16 2013 7:25PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
I'm sure being a graphic design major means you can be successful in a variety of positions, not just "graphic designer"-- I was mainly just replying to the idea that making 30k/year indefinitely without potential for increases can be difficult. I don't even know if the 30k/year figure that was dropped is accurate for a graphic designer. Again-- I was just replying to the cost of living portion of the thread. I am not a graphic design major. Although I did attend MSU.

This was the article I referenced about it being a poor major. Just one article, though.


Dec 16 2013 7:30PM
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