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Base De-lamination Fix? Moment Night Trains

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cottage_steeze
Posts: 564 - Karma: 58
So, for the second time, I caught something and instead of imparting a small core-shot in my skis, a huge patch of base peeled back off the core. First time was on a 2' powder day mid season and this time was my first time out on these guys this year. There are no dents in the core at all but now a 4 square inch chunk of base material is missing. Last time I was able to semi fix this by using the loose base material and epoxying it down but the new delamination does not have enough loose material remaining. Should I just fill it all with epoxy and Tpex? Any ideas? Never seen skis do this as compared to a normal coreshot than can be filled with epoxy until I got these Moments.

New Delam:
Click for larger image

Both Skis (Attempted fix on the ski on the right):
Click for larger image

Original Delam:
Click for larger image
Nov 18 2013 1:00PM
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life_is_hood
Posts: 502 - Karma: 1,972
Yeah you're straight fucked. I recommend a new pair of skis to fix your issue.
Nov 18 2013 1:41PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
I'm honestly blown away at how the base has torn back. That's fucking nutty. Firstly, have you tried contacting Moment for warranty?

If you are SOL there, I guess you could coat the exposed core with epoxy, and after its almost cured but still tacky, drip a PTEX stick over that area. Someone else's opinion on that would be a good idea though cause I mean, that's a huge area missing and I could see my repair failing...

That's a pretty wild coreshot/delam there though. It's almost as if the base is super thin that it just tore like paper and wrinkled. Having worked with raw sintered base material, I can't even see how it would wrinkle like that unless ground thin.
Nov 18 2013 1:44PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
That's what I was wondering. How did that material manage to wrinkle up as if it was some fraction of a mm thick. Did somebody go crazy with a base grind or is the base on those just really thin or something? I've never seen damaged like that, op is a skilled ski destroyer.

You must have it a rock shaped like a razor blade or something?
Nov 18 2013 1:54PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
If warranty is out of the question, try and get your hands on some base material.

Cut the peeled up base off, cut out the surrounding base into a shape that you could replicate with the other base material.

Cut a piece to fit, lightly sand the area exposed on the core.

Make sure everything is clean and epoxy the new base material in place.

Use a piece of wood under the clamps or something flat to apply even pressure to the repair.

After the epoxy has cured, take the ski into for a base grind.
Nov 18 2013 1:57PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Not really a big deal. Your edges and sidewalls are intact and those are a bitch to fix. Tidy up the edges with a blade then fill with 100% epoxy if you're feeling lazy, but use good stuff; West Systems G-Flex is nice, but 24 hour stuff for sure. For a nicer fix, go 2/3 depth with epoxy (add Toko ptex powder if you can get hold of it, about 1:4 powder:epoxy) then top off with ptex. Don't use a candle for something that size though, go for a welded ribbon or glue gun type pistol. File smooth then get a good grind. If you can't get your hand on that stuff then do the tidy & epoxy steps then have your shop do the rest.
Nov 18 2013 2:23PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
The cost to fix that would likely exceed the value of the skis post fix. It also appears to be in a high impact area, and the repair will be weaker than the original base, and prone to repeat damage.

maybe next time don't buy skis that were built by underpaid Mexicans with little over site?
Nov 18 2013 2:31PM
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radish
Posts: 405 - Karma: 351
I have the same skis, and had the same thing happen, in pretty much the same place on the ski. Except an entire chip of base (1"x2" ish) just came right off. No wrinkling or damage to the next layer.

I tried to fix it using ptex but that just keeps coming off. Next time it fails I'm going to give epoxy a try. I get the feeling that this model year of night trains was not that well made...
Nov 18 2013 4:01PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868

A decent ski tech could fix that in a way that would be lasting and still ski just fine with a good base patch. Eventually you would probably pop the patch out but the skis look pretty beat anyway so it would almost certainly make them last long enough.

You get a sheet of base repair material (basically a big piece of what your bases are made of) and cut out a square large enough to cover the damage. Place that on the ski over the damaged bit then trace around it precisely with a scalpel. Take the patch away and keep re-cutting with the scalpel until you hit the core then, with a wide, sharp flat chisel you chisel the square of damaged base off the ski. Clean with prepsol or similar, roughen the surfaces, mix epoxy and apply to core and bottom of patch. Since you traced around it the patch will fit perfectly into the hole, just like a diecut base. Clamp the shit out of it and put it under a heat lamp until the epoxy cures.

Usually the patch sits slightly proud of the base (depending how thick the original base is and how many base grinds you've had) and for a smaller patch I'd say knock it flat with a bastard file (check it with a true bar) then structure with a brass brush but for a patch as big as you'll need I'd just chuck it on a belt.

Nov 18 2013 5:24PM
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cottage_steeze
Posts: 564 - Karma: 58
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately no warranty as I got these second hand from a Moment rider. Also no moneys, but looks like ill try and get my hands on a piece of "base material" and see if i cant make it look better than the first one that happened.

Oh and to the guy who says a new pair of skis is better: NO SHIT! But my parents dont buy my skis.
Nov 18 2013 6:17PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
I guess Moment uses good base material since this shit doesnt happen with low quality sintered or extuded. Only really dense bases will do this kind of shit. I had the same problem with a pair of beater race skis I used for a month so its not entirely shocking to me. shit like this happens when you ski on 2 inches of snow though..
Nov 18 2013 6:44PM
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cottage_steeze
Posts: 564 - Karma: 58
when was I on 2 inches of snow? 2' not 2"
Nov 18 2013 7:38PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,398
it's funny because it's true
Nov 18 2013 8:14PM
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Parks.
Posts: 5612 - Karma: 1,093
LOL! Lost so hard
Nov 18 2013 8:17PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
I'm actually really curious about this. Is this actually true and not just a joke? I've wondered how they claim handmade but have such a high volume of skis being put out. Was looking at getting Moments for a while but then decided against it.
Nov 18 2013 8:40PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
oh my bad
Nov 18 2013 8:44PM
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Parks.
Posts: 5612 - Karma: 1,093
I live in reno (where they are made) and they are hand made from what i have seen (i have been to the factory) however that does not mean they are well made. haha
Nov 18 2013 8:46PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
been to the moment factory a few times
the hispanic bros are the edgers
edges seem fine
best blame the damn stoner whiteboys
base patch , epoxy, or acess to a poliman
best find a stoner tech
Nov 18 2013 9:57PM
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Tucks
Posts: 2120 - Karma: 161
I leave this here because this isn't a thread about Moment durability but more how to patch your damaged ski. First:
-That ski can be fixed, but there are never any guarantee that it will hold. The way I would approach the repair would be as follows:
1.) Use a straight edge (new) and cut a square section that includes all the affected base that has been uprooted
2.) Clean the existing damaged area with a natural based solvent, like citrus cleaner.
3.) Allow to dry
4.) Gather Base material from: http://www.blankslateskis.com/base-materials/
5.) Cut the base to size of missing base area
6.) Gather epoxy (marine +24 hours is your best bet) and spread a nice thin layer over the base (insure there is no moisture remaining around this area. Don't necessarily make it flush with the base.
7.)Place the base material on top of the epoxy and clamp/press well (the epoxy should ooze out of the cracks.
8.) After curing period is over unclamp and examine your work.
9.) Shave down and excess epoxy with a straight edge
10.) Any unfilled crevices fill in with p-tex
11.)**Have ski stone ground to insure the new material is flush with the old (likely the old base material and the existing base material will be of different thicknesses so this should be done for best results/reduce risk of pulling out your work.
**I have done this several times with varying results. Results will be based on quality of epoxy, uniform pressure when clamping, and thickness of base material relative to existing base material

Now to Moment in general. I have owned Moments in the past and have never had an issue with durability, I always thought of them as extremely well made and stood up to the beating I delivered. The issue experience is due to an impact that exerted a greater force relative to the tearing point of the base material, additionally the base tore like that due to the nature of the object hit. Moment bases are relatively tough, making them ridged compared to other base materials. When the object was struck the base peeled rather than a series of divots formed(what happens with softer bases) due to several factors: 1.) due to rigidity of the base 2.) because the initial impact penetrated the base to the core and 3.) likely the adhesive used in the making of the skis did not cure correctly causing it to be weaker and prone to delimitation (happens on occasion when you are mass producing skis regardless of the technique used)

Hope that clears up any confusion and if you have any questions regarding the repair feel free to pm


Nov 18 2013 10:11PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
Measuring roughly, how big are the pieces torn out OP? If costs weren't insane, I could probably mail you some scrap base. Or you could always check around on www.skibuilders.com and see if anyone local might have some.
Nov 18 2013 10:23PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
So then what is better/representative of higher quality: a base that peels like these Moments, or a base that has the divots and gouges from impact like most skis?
Nov 19 2013 1:19AM
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.nasty
Posts: 10581 - Karma: 11,091
moment skis, made in america by mexicans.


Nov 19 2013 1:32AM
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TRASHTALK
Posts: 324 - Karma: 493
THIS...if Moment isn't helping, which I doubt...then you must use base material. (It looks like melted electrical tape when it goes on...)
Nov 19 2013 2:18AM
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cottage_steeze
Posts: 564 - Karma: 58
Looks like Im going searching for some base material and doing custom inlays on the underfoot of both skis. Ive had good luck with the marine epoxy i used on the first ski which i fixed without extra material.

As for Moment and their durability, I have no clue how there skis hold up in general, but both of mine now have a huge gaping hole of base missing but no core shot. So I guess it does bring about the question someone else asked, whats worse this delamination or a coreshot due to a weaker base material that can be easily repaired with a ptex candle?
Nov 19 2013 2:27PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
No doubt your damage is far worse.

As for the repair ask around on wwww.skibuilders.com like I said, or if it's not insane to get some to wherever you are I could probably send some out in a brown envelope. But I am in Canada and it could take a while.
Nov 19 2013 5:31PM
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Stose
Posts: 7109 - Karma: 4,123
That's Moment skis for you
Nov 22 2013 11:37PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21061 - Karma: 8,366
Call Moment directly, tell them the issue, and ask them how they have dealt with/fixed the issue in the past. Last time I called Moment, their VP picked up the phone.
Nov 23 2013 3:20AM
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