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Would Siver still be relevant?

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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
This article - https://www.newschoolers.com/readnews/43345.0/Orage-announces-new-ownership

Mixed with this interview - http://freeskier.com/stories/catching-up-with-mike-nick-re-orage-ownership

and this quote from it:

"Are you finally going to bring back Siver Cartel?

Ah, Siver… hmmm, [pause]. First things first, Orage is the priority for now and we need to stay focused. But we did regain ownership of a certain other brand as well."

Gets me thinking...

Same vein as the discussion on Freeze - would a brand like Siver still be relevant in today's ski world?

I mean when Siver came out it was totally fucking revolutionary. Mike Nick had a complete grasp on exactly what skiers wanted - which was snowboard influenced outerwear. Their shit was amazing, and sadly they were bought and shutdown almost as quickly as Freeze.

This puts them potentially in the same situation where there is a tenancy of us who were around for the start of the revolution to lament their awesomeness. I think a return of Siver would be unreal.... but would it resonate with today's skier?

Perhaps the answer is simply a healthily re-branded Orage that occupies the space it always should have.

What do you think?

Aug 6 2013 10:06PM
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bakerpunk
Posts: 884 - Karma: 1,125
Only if they have a ballers club.
Aug 6 2013 10:14PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
I'm going to go ahead and say no they wouldn't be.
They would just be one more of many like Saga, FD, Trew, Lethal Descent(are they still around?) moment and other companies that are breaking into more "freeski" oriented stuff like TNF.
Aug 6 2013 10:18PM
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JWoods
Posts: 2369 - Karma: 2,635
YEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Aug 6 2013 10:25PM
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bakerpunk
Posts: 884 - Karma: 1,125
The fact of the matter is that any company can be relevant with proper marketing.(nordica) The ski industry is not huge but it is big enough to facilitate siver and any other company trying to break through. i realize siver was around for along time before but that just means they already have a following/fan base. I think the question should be why wouldn't they be relevant?
Aug 6 2013 10:26PM
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SnowMiser
Posts: 801 - Karma: 3,150
I lol'd
Aug 6 2013 10:28PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
yea, i guess you're right. I think it might just be a bit more difficult nowadays
Aug 6 2013 10:32PM
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mooseman077
Posts: 300 - Karma: 359
Hell yeah Siver's still relevant. There are plenty of us who are still skiing and buying gear who were around when Siver was hot. I look back on them fondly for bringing us ski gear that wasn't your typical Colombia jacket style. They were great back then, and I'm sure they would remain awesome if they came back.
Aug 7 2013 12:04AM
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JuliusJ
Posts: 3778 - Karma: 2,106
Come on, I know you're all nostalgic, but I am I really the only one who doesn't think so?
Aug 7 2013 12:07AM
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JuliusJ
Posts: 3778 - Karma: 2,106
On the other hand, a rebranded Orage, yeah I probably would buy if they had a better looking technical line
Aug 7 2013 12:09AM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12808 - Karma: 1,945
i agree, it wouldn't work as it was before. while siver had a certain style the quality you got fell short of the price you payed. now if it were to become a cheaper line of orage, i think that could be successful. could also work by upping the quality and being a freeride focused section of orage (would be similar to before, but with a corporate backer to ensure competitive price points). or even just a softgoods/streetwear line.
Aug 7 2013 4:41AM
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EastShoreDrive
Posts: 188 - Karma: 862
Bring it back as a boutique brand with functionality built specifically for us who remember Siver. All jackets will have a built in baby bottle warmer, a specific Shout Wipes pocket, GPS car locator so you can actually remember where you parked, and a bill pay notification system so the mortgage payment gets in the mail on time (it can also serve as the "get laid notification" for the one time a month the wife gives it up).

Any rumors of Fate making a comeback?
Aug 7 2013 9:02AM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
Siver would only be relevant if, as you stated it once was, it is again totally revolutionary. They would not be successful if they came back making the same things as they did. There aren't enough people left from that era to buy that outerwear, mostly based on nostalgia. The money is in the younger demographic of skiers; there are significantly more of them, and they have more money to spend. If they came onto the scene as, say, the Bonfire of skiing, I think they could find a successful niche. It would be very different than what the brand once was, but it's something I think skiing needs right now.
Aug 7 2013 9:07AM
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CKpolicy
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 2,463
if first drop and wu tang can be relevant, why the fuck wouldn't an outerwear company created by one of the pioneers of the sport be relevant? freeze and siver died, yet the tall t lives on...
Aug 7 2013 9:26AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
Bring it back if only to have that beautiful logo displayed in more places
Aug 7 2013 9:58AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141

Depends what it is.

The whole "it was amazing" thing is actually kind of revisionist history. Technically, the product was pretty crappy. It was more or less all 5000mm/5000g, never over 10k IIRC, so soaked by end of day, easy enough to tear, disposable stuff. There wasn't any feel of quality. I say this as someone who has owned (and I think I still own a couple of hoodies) a bunch of Siver. Some of the stuff looked good, and it cost next to nothing compared to the alternatives (especially on discount), but that's as far as it went.

I think if they were to bring it back, yes, the brand would still mean something. And I even think it would make sense, in order to create some brand separation between the more mainstream, "for everyone including families and weekend warriors" Orage brand and a more freeski-specific Siver Cartel. But they'd have to actually produce a top-quality product.

Aug 7 2013 10:19AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14477 - Karma: 10,515
Bring Siver back as the "street" wear, keep Orage as the outerwear.

Reasons why Siver was popular: good logo, cool looking gear. The quality was fairly low.
Aug 7 2013 10:36AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14477 - Karma: 10,515
This is what I would like to see happen. And Predatorwear.
Aug 7 2013 10:42AM
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bnewbs6
Posts: 1919 - Karma: 1,462
"Mike Nick had a complete grasp on exactly what skiers wanted"
If that is what made it so popular before then why cant he do it again? If he made the type of outerwear we like and that we want to wear and see, I easily could see it getting big again. If he makes the same stuff as before, I dont see it being relevant anymore.
Aug 7 2013 11:06AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,940
Orage.....
Aug 7 2013 11:08AM
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JsNeagle
Posts: 1399 - Karma: 1,506
I still have a Siver pull over!  I rock it every once in a while. 
Aug 7 2013 11:13AM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2717 - Karma: 32,916
I use to own so much of their stuff, but lost it over the years. I actually might buy some old stuff from Getboards before this season starts.
Aug 7 2013 11:21AM
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Rparr
Posts: 5350 - Karma: 42,139
Read the thread title as "Would Silver still be relevant?" and wondered why it was in sg

I am an idiot
Aug 7 2013 11:38AM
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montanan
Posts: 1787 - Karma: 1,346
yessss
Aug 7 2013 6:14PM
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brennanmidwest
Posts: 925 - Karma: 13
It would be hard for them to rely strictly on nostalgia. I did love my Siver jacket though.
Aug 7 2013 6:25PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Part of what was revolutionary at the time though was the fact that it was cheap. I mean in those days if you wanted ski gear, you had to get like 40,000 waterproofing everest summit gear. It all looked lame and was ultra performance and expensive.

Siver was dope because when you're shredding the park all day at a tiny east coast mountain, you don't really give a fuck if its ultra performance or not. You want it to be cool, keep you warm enough, cheap as fuck and last about one season until fashion changes.

My take was that all along Siver was supposed to be that cheaper line in Orage. All cool, all cheap, not ultra quality. They could play that again, and frankly they could rock it.

Something I think I'm learning out of all these nostalgic threads is that there isn't the relevancy that we'd all like to think left in the things that died out back at the start of the revolution. Its a new world now, and something old does not always equal the coolness of something new.

Aug 7 2013 10:06PM
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skimeehan
Posts: 181 - Karma: 21
Price you paid? Are you kidding me? I'm thinking you don't actually remember what you paid for that stuff.

One of the main reasons Siver was so successful aside from the style they brought to the table was price. Almost all of the jackets were under $200. Nobody else that was relevant at that time was touching that price point(Oakley, DNA, Orage, Spyder, Rip Curl etc...)

It's the exact same reason Grenade has continued to kill it in snowboarding and First Drop is doing so well now. Everybody knows that the quality is a bit lacking, but you can't match the bang for your buck on price and style.

As far as I'm concerned nobody has stepped into that role in freeskiing. FIrst Drop comes close, but most of us aren't gun totting thugs.

If Siver stayed true to what it originally was, there is no doubt that it would still be relevant. More like innovative and trendsetting out of the gate.

Mike Nick is a very sharp dude and he has always followed his own creative vision. If he wants to make Siver relevant again, trust me, he will.
Aug 7 2013 11:45PM
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562056961108
Posts: 0 - Karma: 575
Bishop, I really respect a lot of the work you've done and the opinions you have... more of a lurker than a contributor here, but I'm part of the old guard, and I think that perspective is important.

I tend to disagree with you here. Siver came out around the time I was really getting into freeskiing, and that shit was the ish! I mean, nobody out there was making the gear that has a style statement like Siver. Gigantic, front pocket bibs? Huge logo's on the front and back of the jackets? a baggier, looser fitting style that screamed originality? This was stuff a lot of people hadn't seen before, and fuck it was awesome.

Sure, it was cheaper, but damn it man, whenever you saw a kid in a Siver jacket, that guy had street cred, and in most instances, the guy ripped. That was out in Copper and Winter Park, where freeskiing was just taking hold when it came out.

My adulthood is going to be showing, but it applies here: re-branding and reinvigorating a long forgotten brand takes work... it doesn't mean it has to be the same. Take Ray-Band for example. Those sunglasses went out of style in the 80's and 90's, and look what Luxottica has done with them now: rebranded as a classic brand with a bit of throwback high-class, and all of a sudden, they are the hottest thing on the sunglasses market (sorry Oakley, even though you're owned by the same parent company.) Takes a good marketing mind with an emphasis on cost-effective marketing efforts, leveraging viral, community driven buzz (ever heard of Siracha? they've never advertised...) with a good focus on design, and bam! you've got a winner in some/most cases.


I think Mike Nick's got an awesome opportunity to take the Siver brand and reinvigorate it with a whole new look. Take that revolutionary style it had back in the day and make it relevant today. Whether that's an emphasis on the throwback or a whole new take on it, or somewhere in between, I think this community would really appreciate it, embrace it, and accept it. Particularly if they up the technical specs (which they now have the expertise and reach to do so!). He should get on these forums and ask the people what they want!

Anyway, a long-time (24 y/o) freeskier's perspective. Bring back Siver, bring back Freeze.

And I swear to god if any of you call me a hipster for liking Freeskiing before it was cool I'm going to e-punch you in the face.
Aug 8 2013 12:39AM
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snowbladesforlife
Posts: 2033 - Karma: -3
Not unless they bring it back to their roots. For snowbladers by snowbladers.

Pretty sure I have a sweatshirt from 99. Anyone want to buy it? It's a large and can barely fit a 5'4 Asian kid.
Aug 8 2013 1:23AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
I think that we're actually decently on the same page, just different take.

I do agree with you that the key would be a total brand re-birth if you were to bring back something like this. Your example of Ray-Ban is perfect, and you can say the same for stuff like Vuarnet or other 80s/90s clothing/accessories brands. Re-branding is super hard, but it can be very relevant.

I think what I didn't clarify in my points was that I don't think you could just bring back any of these old brands as they were and bam hit success based on their old reputation. Your point of it being possible, but needing a genius marketing mind to find a new (and possibly inspired by nostalgia) place in the market is absolutely key.

I would also point out that the same thing could likely be done with a new brand, or one that wasn't shuttered. Perhaps you could just as easily turn Orage into that brand, or cook up some new hair brained thing.

I don't know.... imagining siver brought back as a new ultra-hip brand is a good concept. As I'm writing this message I think I'm getting more into the idea.

Aug 9 2013 10:21AM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
I'm literally wearing a Fate shirt that I got at SIA 2012.... They are supposedly coming back, although I didn't see them again last SIA.
Aug 11 2013 5:04PM
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bibs_skibum
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 449
A possible problem could be that the generation that grew up on siver (myself and those a little older than me) has now grown up a little bit. People my age have started to gravitate more towards the trew/Patagonia style of higher quality fabrics and less steezy design. If siver tried to come back again, they would have to try and market to the same demographic of kids looking for cheap steezy gear and they wouldn't be able to rely on the novelty of their old brand being reborn. Their market would have been 7 years old when they were bought out. Their past consumers have grown up since then, so marketing to them might be a little tough.

I still wear my siver shirt.
Aug 12 2013 9:17AM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
Welp, this made the thread better.
Aug 12 2013 2:50PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
I don't know how old you are, but your statement is a bit generalized. I was like 15 or 16 when my friends were wearing Siver, and I'm not out buying Trew and Patagonia now. Granted, I'm not dressing like a gangster, but I just had to state my opinion.
Aug 12 2013 4:58PM
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STAUSS
Posts: 8232 - Karma: 3,311
only if they re-run the sick turtle fur visor hat with the optional ear flaps.  i had that hat in grey and in green.  shit was FUCKING DOPE. 
but for real, siver was the beginning of a revolution that has been continued up by saga, fd, bloom ect... so unless they did something revolutionary again it would probably just fall into line with the other freestyle ski specific outerware companies.  which isnt a bad thing by any means.
Aug 12 2013 5:43PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Yes, I would tend to agree. I'm 34 years old with two kids, and I only wear 2xl ultra 'gangster' outerwear with 5Xl tall tees underneath. Only when I'm skiing, and I never act like an idiot but I like the baggy gear because it allows me to layer and I find it very comfortable.

Getting older doesn't automatically make you a granolla-eating everest-summiting hippie. You might now throw down in the park like you used to, and you might like riding pow and trees more... but you don't necessarily change fashion.



Aug 13 2013 9:13AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Anything can be relevant with the correct approach. The question is if the name alone has relevancy in today's market.

I do think most freeskiers would recognize the brand and the name would have some market clout but the name alone wouldn't do it for them. I do think that the brand could fill the role of a lower price, non-thug freeskier apparel company though and I do think the market is growing enough to support them as that.
Aug 13 2013 10:05AM
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duhamelski
Posts: 3842 - Karma: 192
Skiing is a lot different than it was during the Siver/Freeze days. It could probably exist, but I don't think it'd have much of a natural advantage because of its former brand strength.
Aug 13 2013 1:07PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
Good point here is that any sort of a leg up in Marketing can be an excellent head start - for whatever you're doing.

Even just having something recognizable gives you at least a base to work from when building a brand. If you can play off that you might end up further ahead.

Aug 13 2013 4:23PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
I think Aeryx would have a better shot at a comeback. Their sample jackets are still in pretty high demand on the BST.
Aug 13 2013 4:25PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
I had an Aeryx T-shirt and it was awesome.
Aug 13 2013 5:58PM
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TBONE902
Posts: 266 - Karma: 709
Siver was so steez
Aug 13 2013 6:49PM
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bobs
Posts: 4801 - Karma: 869
Truths
Aug 13 2013 6:56PM
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Plankton
Posts: 3226 - Karma: 6,840
i still would wear these pants
Click for larger image
Aug 13 2013 7:21PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,012
i like this idea. or as others have stated, make it a lower end line of orage.
Aug 13 2013 8:09PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,385
Siver should be streetwear, not outerwear. Orage is doing it right getting back to the original freeskiing roots of the brand... they should keep it seperate.

Mike, I know you read this shit. Remember your FREEZE interview? Someone asked you something about what your plans were, etc... you said something about "building the best damn streetwear brand out" or something like that. Don't forget about the dream!

Just like I told you at SIA, I still wear one of my 2 siver sweatsuits every time I ski, and my pagoda shirt is still my "good luck tee". You made the best clothing, hands down... my 7 year old sweats and hoodies with probably over 200 days of skiing in each one is a testament to that.

Aug 13 2013 10:36PM
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closeyetfar11
Posts: 387 - Karma: 1,079
I've rocked predatorwear pants the last two seasons, and upon some sewing here soon will do so indefinitely. 
Aug 13 2013 11:00PM
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Skroob
Posts: 266 - Karma: 69
This, plus I would love to see siver golf/polo shirts
Aug 13 2013 11:13PM
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YoUnGinAYo
Posts: 307 - Karma: 226
1.  - Siver makes some pieces.
+
2. - Built with classic inspiration of style with today's wants and needs for quality.

=

3.  Former brand loyal customers (thousands at least) purchase and new adopters follow.


Bringing back Siver is an excellent investment on part of the new owners.  I believe strongly that this strategy could result in a positive ROI.

Aug 14 2013 2:15PM
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Dan-Man
Posts: 7480 - Karma: 3,605
I'd love to see a return of the SIVER CARTEL :)

that was some real no BS approach to a ski company.

I'm tired to seeing all these little mountain town faggets blow their parents thousands on clown colored fagget looking clothes. it makes you all look like you escaped from the circus when you post up on the knuckle in your xxl yellow and red fagget gear knowing you are to much of a lil bitch to even ride the park.

BRING BACK SIVER
Aug 14 2013 9:04PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Agreed. They'd probably make a decent amount initially just because people were excited to see the name again, but I doubt it would last unless they transferred the name into a new impressive line of quality stuff. If it was just white noise outerwear or rebranded Orage stuff, no luck I say.
Aug 14 2013 10:27PM
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