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March, 2024

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SI&I Ski touring System

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brewernovascotia
Posts: 293 - Karma: 408
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/299047004/siandi-alpine-ski-touring-system?fb_action_ids=10151790834409418&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151790834409418%22%3A443299412416368%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151790834409418%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

Anyone see this looks pretty awesome design. Thoughts?
Mar 13 2013 8:53PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
2.5kg extra weight over Dynafit. Not worth it in my opinion.
Mar 14 2013 4:27AM
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Feign
Posts: 28 - Karma: 53
Nothing is ever worth it if it isn't a pure tech binding in your opinion man... Besides even though the weight of this might be comparable to dukes or barons, your not picking up the extra weight of the heelpiece with every step.
Mar 14 2013 10:51AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
This was featured in last months issue of powder magazine, if I remember correctly. Personally I think there is a market for this system actually, I might be wrong, but I think the sweetgrass boys have been using this system over the past season. There's quite a lot of discussion on this over on TGR - http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/227036-Green-Mountain-Freeride-AT-Binding
Mar 14 2013 1:38PM
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TheWeaz
Posts: 803 - Karma: 1,903
its not 2.5 kg of extra weight, its 250 grams per ski, so .5 kg total.
Mar 14 2013 4:17PM
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brewernovascotia
Posts: 293 - Karma: 408
video says 250grams of added weight. 0.250kg
Mar 14 2013 4:18PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Dynafit Vertical FT (middle-weight in the range): 570g per pair.

CAST system: P18s (2500g) + Dynafit toes (340g) + SI&I plates (250g) + toe plate attached to Dynafit toe (50g estimate) = 3140g.

The weight of the plates pretty much cancels out the weight of a tech heel, so you're carrying the extra weight of a pair of alpine bindings on the way up regardless. I'm not saying it's a bad system; I love the innovation but 2.5kg extra weight on my skis & back just wouldn't be worth it for me for a more solid platform on the down. For me, touring means keep it light and ski your equipment appropriately, ie. hold back marginally.
Mar 14 2013 4:30PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
The Verticals are 570g each. Backcountry.com has them at a little over a kg per pair.

I still agree with all your points but I wanted to clarify that (if you're talking about the same Vertical).
Mar 14 2013 6:29PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Fuck me, you're right. Guess I'm sticking with Plums next year after all. Well subtract 570g from any figures above.
Mar 15 2013 3:36PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
boax, you seem to be missing the point that you dont carry the binding around like an ankle weight when you tour, the main benefit of a low tech binding. weight difference is a non issue in my opinion.

you then are wearing your inbounds boots and click into alpine bindings and you get new soles on your boots.

there are no touring boots that ski like a krypton pro or high end race boots. this system isnt for you if you lap crunchy 30 degree pow slopes, its for you if you hit bc booters, send cliffs, ski fast, and have an appreciation for efficent dynafit touring. it makes dukes, guardians and MFD obsolete.

its a great system just dont forget your toes !
Mar 16 2013 1:24PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Extra weight is extra weight. I don't care if it's on my feet, on my skis or on my back.
Mar 16 2013 4:09PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
I thought this was an interesting idea but why not go for the dynafit all the way instead of just buying toe pieces? Honestly I feel like if Hoji can do what he does on 'em none of us have any excuse. Not to take away from the coolness of this plate idea though, I really do think it is cool and it is good that people are experimenting and innovating.
Mar 16 2013 4:20PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
do you ski touring skis inbounds?
Mar 16 2013 6:57PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
I use my Dynafiddle setup in bounds on a semi-regular basis.
Mar 16 2013 9:39PM
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zbphoto
Posts: 7789 - Karma: 12,037
What people forget is how ridiculously smooth Hoji is. I and most of NS are no where near this level of smoothness, putting more force on our bindings, leading to pre release.
Mar 17 2013 12:13AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5065 - Karma: 42,823
Haha, true that, he could probably do bigger stuff on squires than most of NS, I still want dynafits though....
Mar 17 2013 1:01AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
For steeps or any bootpacking, yeah.
Mar 17 2013 4:00AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
It also depends on what skis are in your primary touring setup. I have Jeffreys mounted with Dynafit and Caylors mounted for Dynafit and FKS. The Jeffreys are definitely a better all-around ski, but I'll take the Caylors to ski lifts more often because I can put Pivots on them.
Mar 17 2013 11:00AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
if you are using dynafits inbounds you are breaking them down every day. also i bet hoji blows through many pairs of dynafits a season. they are tough bindings but in reality they are made to make 100 turns every 1000 vert. thats why hoji and dynafit is making that 1000 dollar binding that weighs as much as the fks, right?

this set up allows you to tour with tech capabilities, allows you to switch bindings between your skis, and allows you to have one boot.

touring boots are far inferior to alpine boots. to me walk mode is just something i forget to change to ski mode and nearly blow out my knees when i hit an air.

its like you have all gone soft, is newschoolers the new epicski? you are all lapping 500 vert of perfect 30% pow slopes? dont get me wrong, i love my dynafits, but all touring boots suck, multiple pairs of boots suck, and there is a reason i have a (plum) touring set up, and an inbounds set up.

you guys should get randonee skis and really start doing some touring. extra weight is extra weight brahhhhs.

Mar 17 2013 11:41AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
also these guys are winning the freeride world tour.....on their touring set ups.
Mar 17 2013 12:07PM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
.
Mar 17 2013 12:26PM
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icecoastfreeride
Posts: 77 - Karma: 85
In my opinion the si&i are much better then the dynafits because you can use alpine boots with them (you just have to put the inserts in) and you can use your regular 16 din bindings. Plus they obviously beat out the duke/tracker market because you get the same 16 din heel piece without having to lift it every step. Although the weight difference isn't huge its by no means comparable.
Mar 17 2013 2:17PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
You make a few valid points. The problem is that every system has compromises, whether its a tech binding, a framed binding, an AT boot, or an alpine boot. The key thing is to find the system that works best for you. For example, a hard charging, 240 lb guy probably isn't going to be able to ski a tech binding aggressively. I don't believe that the Beast 16 is the answer, but it's definitely a good idea and something that people will use well.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, though. You say all AT boots suck and NS has gone soft because some of us like Dynafit, yet you say you love your tech binders too. I agree that it would suck to have multiple pairs of boots and swapping soles is not the answer, so then just pick a boot or don't tour at all! Everybody that I know who has a tech touring setup (myself included) also has an inbounds setup or two, so you're not alone in that reasoning, in fact, that's the prevalent thought: tech setup for hiking and alpine setup for lifts. The only reason I ski my Dynafits on a lift serve day is if I want to use the skis that they are on.

The SI&I system is great idea. It combines the better part of both worlds simply and effectively. It's good that those guys are already out killing it on the system, too. I hope this idea takes off for them, and it's certainly gotten a lot of exposure which is good. The biggest thing that's keeping my from wanting it is that my Dynafits have worked great for me so far, and since they are already set up for 2 pairs of skis, I'll stay with them.
Mar 17 2013 2:29PM
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Calb3rt
Posts: 6005 - Karma: 2,202
i've been following this binding system for a little bit and i really like the idea but i definitely still have my reservations.  Im a bit iffy on the whole boot mod aspect of it, would a shop accept a boot that has been modified.  I have read some questions about the integrity of the inserts and the answers mostly  just glaze over the subject with something along the lines of  "you are only using it on the uphill, therefore there is only minimal torque on the toes so it doesnt need to be perfect".  I like the ease of sliding in a new toe piece but i dont know if i trust the pin/spring mechanism because if that were to break/ fail, especially in the bc, you would be fucked. and also icing issues( i know they have the fancy teflon anodized coating but still), seems like it could be frustrating with cold fingers.

Is it even possible to buy dynafit/plumb toe pieces alone?

Im glad to see that they are getting a lot of attention and i hope they can get enough backing for it to take off.  It is very promising seeing as most of the people working on the system are also consistently on top of the podiums.
Mar 17 2013 3:16PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
all im saying is i like my dynafit setups, but there is a reason why i ski inbounds on an alpine set up and not a dynafit setup. that reason is stability of a good boot, the power of a race binding and the confidence of the whole package.

the only compromise you make on this set up is the aluminum plates and touring with an extra pound by having your fks heel piece attached to the ski (but not your ankle). and if you are really being a weight weenie like boax, then he and anyone else should grab a pair of randonee skis to replace those big fat skis yall feel semi stable on.

silas and lars are winning FWT comps on hardpack, with this setup they can very efficently also tour on.

would i get rid of my plums and coombacks? no

does this make dukes, guardians, trekers, MFD obsolete ? yes

are there days when i was touring but wish i had my inbounds ski? yes



Mar 17 2013 3:18PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
most race boots get modified with a vibram sole plate so you dont wear down your boot soles plastic, which causes premature ejection from skis. any high quality boot fitter can do this for you. high end full tilts come stock with this now.

the inserts are a part of the plate, and are only used on the uphill.

the toe piece slides into the plate and even if the spring was broken it stops at the end anyway, it would be held inplace by the plate and could not move forward, the mechanisim stops it from moving backward which wont happen anyway with your boot in there.

icing issues would be minimal because there is always a plate in there, its not like the duke where the track is just exposed while you are touring.

plum sells replacement toes readily and im sure dynafit does too if you call them. i heard they are working on something cheap to just hold your toe in place as the dynafit toe is over kill for just touring uphill.



Mar 17 2013 3:28PM
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Calb3rt
Posts: 6005 - Karma: 2,202
thank you smuggs! i've also read somewhere about making the heel piece slide off as well so you wouldnt need to rubber band your breaks up(fks/pivots)? do you know anymore about that?
Mar 17 2013 4:41PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
i think their next step would be having the heel piece slide off.

i dont work for these guys i know them personally and some of the people they got on their evolving system just fucking shred inbounds on it, and it makes me stoked to know i could tour with it.

this is the closest skiing is to a one or two ski one binding one boot quiver for everything, big tours to bc kickers.
Mar 17 2013 5:04PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
A lot of guys around here would disagree with that. A friend of mine must have about 300 days on a really old pair of Speeds with no issues (didn't own an alpine setup until last year). Tech bindings just require a bit more finesse to ski. I partially lock mine and hold back just a little compared to alpine setups but that's a compromise I'm willing to make.

All ski equipment is about compromise, be it strength, weight, release/retention, price, efficiency, comfort, etc, etc. It's just about where you want to compromise. The compromise of the SI&I system will work for some skiers and not for others. Likewise a tech binding, or alpine binding, Guardians, Fritschis, Trekkers, MFDs...
Mar 17 2013 5:34PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
why would you lock them ? you dont trust them ? you need more than 12 din ? you want your skis to stay on and pull you to the bottom in avalanches ?



Mar 17 2013 7:30PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
like yea dude u gotta lotta sweet photos of you hitting park gaps and cliff drops, and the photo of you on dynafits is pretty obvious compared to your others.

why wouldnt you want to take those kung fujas out on a morning tour then rage park laps and pick up babes without changing skis and boots ?
Mar 17 2013 7:38PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Right. I don't trust them 100% unlocked. Locked up one click is predictable for me, and so far they hold me in when I need to and release when I need to. Not the perfect scenario, but like I said this is the compromise that works for me.

If that second post was directed at me, then I would never tour and hit park in the same day. A touring day for me means an early start, lifts to access an area, climb 3-5 hours, ski the line, ski out, get home. I guess products like this are aimed more a the US market (likewise MFD, Beast, etc). I heard you guys do things called "laps", sounds weird.
Mar 18 2013 3:43AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,373
seem like the perfect candidate for the ability to tour with a dynafit then swapping to a binding you can trust on a life threatening backcountry ski line.
Mar 18 2013 12:20PM
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