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Did the shop mess up my skiis?

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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
I got my skiis mounted at a shop and asked for a centre mount and even marked the centre with tape

When I got home with the skiis I noticed the centre of my boot is 3mm forward of where I marked for them to be mounted on

Is there a certain margin of error when mounting bindings?

Would I feel the difference of 3mm forward compared to true centre?

Is there any way I could move them back 3mm without drilling new holes? I am using px14 bindings

If your skiis where forward 3mm would it bother you?

Skiis are fully symmetrical any answers appreciated

Thanks guys

Jan 13 2013 6:34AM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
Round about 2.5mm is an acceptable margin of error for any shop mount. I doubt you'll notice a difference of 3mm.
Jan 13 2013 6:56AM
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TheWakes.
Posts: 685 - Karma: 235
they likely measured them and mounted where they are supposed to be, sometimes that spot doesnt always line up with the midsole line on the ski. 3 mm will be pretty hard to notice. but likely, if the shop measured, they are spot on.
Jan 13 2013 8:20AM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
What do you mean that spot doesn't line up with the midsole of the ski? I measured true centre myself and put a mark on it
Jan 13 2013 12:19PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I think you would be hard pressed to notice a difference. What percent is 3mm to the overall length of the ski?
Jan 13 2013 12:26PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
Ski is 175 so 3mm means I would have 87.8cm tail and 87.2cm nose
Jan 13 2013 12:30PM
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Pikachu.
Posts: 1290 - Karma: 1,641
.17%
Jan 13 2013 1:50PM
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
as far as head games go, 3mm back from center would make me feel so much better than 3mm forward, even tho it would ride the same. i feel like your tips should always be longer than your tails or equal, never less.
Jan 13 2013 1:57PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
Yeah I totally agree fuck
Jan 13 2013 1:59PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
Is that like a universally accepted margin if error?
Jan 13 2013 2:04PM
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Dochaladai
Posts: 47 - Karma: 16
Nah fuck that..I'd get them redrilled
Jan 13 2013 2:46PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
Already on second mount, not comfortable with a third, redrill not an option
Jan 13 2013 2:58PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
Op... ugh
Jan 13 2013 7:03PM
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SwagtasticWalrus
Posts: 1268 - Karma: 184
This. But I think it'd be ok. If you're mad talk to them. They might refund or even fix it.
Jan 13 2013 7:26PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
?
Jan 13 2013 8:17PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I think he's being sarcastic. 3 mm is so small that a re drill wouldn't do anything more than enlarge existing holes. You won't notice a difference, don't be ridiculous and just go shred!
Jan 13 2013 8:39PM
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Sharko
Posts: 2274 - Karma: 4,101
The fact that you measured after you got them back from the shop shows that you're too focused on the numbers. A lot of people on NS do all their skiing on paper. They look at stats and charts for skis and they think that they know how the skis will perform. For example, you see people posting things like: "Bacons are 110 waist, that's too wide for park," But to know that you must have actually skiied multiple 110mm waist skis as well as multiple skis less than 110 and more than 110 to really know where your limits are. Stop measuring your skis and go ski them, you'll love it!
Jan 13 2013 9:09PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
What I'm gathering from this situation is that I think everyone's mounts are a bit off of centre, somebody should go home and measure it out and see if they are even centred down to the mm?
Jan 13 2013 10:08PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
It is possible, since this was the second mount, that they are 3mm up because the placement of the old drill holes. Perhaps they made the small adjustment to accommodate for that.

Jan 13 2013 10:13PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
nope old holes had more than enough space from new ones
Jan 14 2013 2:29AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I'm going to preface this with the statement that I love nerding out about ski gear, and I love having a job that expects precision down to the millimeter, but...

... yeah, you kinda nailed it. If you want to get techy and down to this level of perfection, awesome. But, be warned. I had a car stereo I bought when I was 16 that had more ways to fuck with the sound levels than I knew what to do with. After weeks of playing around, I got so fed up with my changes that I restored it to factory settings and just turned up the bass a few clicks for the rest of its life. Sometimes, when you get to play with all the options, you can end up making a mess and ruining it. If you want to call your shop out on mounting something 3mm off, go right ahead - but before you do so, you may want to weigh all the possible ways that could go.

FYI, when I'm testing our skis, I only usually start noticing changes in performance at around 1-2cm intervals - you change a mount on one ski so its 5mm off the other, I would think you would be very, very hard pressed to notice any difference... but someone whos played around with their Schizo's may have a different answer for you, hope someone posts.
Jan 14 2013 3:06AM
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remster
Posts: 898 - Karma: 261
This is the best post that I've seen all year. Hit the nail on the head there mate. +k
Jan 14 2013 3:08AM
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borskee
Posts: 796 - Karma: 127
since its your 2nd mount on the skis the warranty on them is likely thrown out and the shop most likely wont do anything about it...

as far as 3mm forward goes...you're fine and you're thinking too much, you wont notice the difference at all.

You'll be able to ski switch .17% better though haha

and if I remember correctly I thought Dumont used to mount his skis forward for better switch riding, but I could be completely wrong (feel free to correct me)
Jan 14 2013 4:48AM
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Sky.
Posts: 1158 - Karma: 287
duhh move your heelpiece back thats why bindings are on and adjustable track!
Jan 14 2013 12:38PM
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SwagtasticWalrus
Posts: 1268 - Karma: 184
Then his boot won't fit duhh
Jan 14 2013 1:47PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
lol i just got a delaminated tail, the repair I did on it made the tail slightly shorter and now its exactly centred when u line it up,i guess problem solved kind of?
Jan 14 2013 6:23PM
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zwiefel12
Posts: 173 - Karma: 81
3mm is not 17% of the ski haha.   The skis are 175cm which is 1750mm. Its just around .018%  so less than half of half a percent in the length of the ski.
Jan 14 2013 6:40PM
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zwiefel12
Posts: 173 - Karma: 81

And now I realize there was the "." in that quote haha MY BAD!

Jan 14 2013 6:41PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
I'm really curious of if there is a accepted margin of error for mounting bindings? Is there a certain tolerance that the jig can mount to? Shop techs step in here
Jan 14 2013 10:15PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14477 - Karma: 10,515
I would say the complete opposite. It's all opinion. I have invaders that are +1, and my 186 S3's are centered, but the sidecut is centered at recommended which is ~5 back. Both ski amazing, there is very little tip that touches the ground in front of the bindings on my S3's because of the rocker. So much fun to ski and butter.
Jan 14 2013 10:35PM
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joshwyat
Posts: 139 - Karma: 23
I'd assume there would have to be an acceptable margin of error, as with everything in life. The whole 3mm in front of center is gonna play head games with you more than actually effect your skiing.
Jan 15 2013 2:30AM
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theblackrod
Posts: 2162 - Karma: 575
In theory every mount should be spot on, but we all know about theory and reality.

Was a shop tech for 3 years:

No one purposely attempts to mount your bindings at different spots and most shop techs take pride in their work, at least I did. If you or the tech used a thick Sharpie (chances are yes) to mark the centerpoint of the ski, the difference in the mount could be as simple as lining the boot midsole to the top side of the line on the first mount, and the bottom of the line on the second ski by complete accident.

1. I would not worry about it, you won't notice a difference riding, it's all in your head.
2. You can't remount them regardless if your comfortable with it or not because the 3mm difference would just widen the existing hole and the screws would never stand a chance of keeping your binding attached.
3. "Accepted margain" is touchy because obviously you, the customer, is going to think differently than the shop, or shop tech, would about it. I would say anything inside of .5 cm is "acceptable". I wouldn't argue that .5 cm is good, but the overall effect it has on your riding is negligable at best. Over .5 cm's you could argue would effect your riding and be noticable, but even then I doubt 95% of riders on this site would notice that, myself included.
4. Tolerance the jig cna mount to: the jig is placed on, it can be moved as small as an incriment as teh human hand moving it can control. Also, the jig is placed on each ski separately, so the probabitlity the shop tech places the jig at the EXACT (say we are using laser measurements here) location as the first ski drilled is highly unlikely. Close, absolutely. 3mm could be something as simple as a hairline dent it a tip or tail from. I may go as far to argue both pairs of my skis I have, if measured are 1-2 mm off between skis. Matter of fact one of the pairs I can almost guarantee is, but I couldn't tell you there is a noticeable difference or I would be lying to you and everyone in here.

Hope that helped a little. You're welcome to ask more questions if you have any.
Jan 15 2013 3:52PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
+k thanks for a great reply
Jan 15 2013 4:55PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
My tip delaminated and I fixes it up with epoxy, if I add a little extra epoxy onto the tip will it solve the problem of them buying off of centre technically?
Jan 17 2013 4:03AM
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beermuscles
Posts: 1821 - Karma: 100
fantastic.
Jan 17 2013 8:35AM
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doitbig
Posts: 4818 - Karma: 315
I am about 3mm forward of exact center on my skis due to sizing down a shell size in my new boots. I can't tell any difference what so ever. OP you are fine.
Jan 17 2013 9:42AM
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SlugInfinite
Posts: 666 - Karma: 191
What? Why? I don't understand. You have a ton of responses from people more knowledgeable than you, saying that 3mm will make absolutely zero difference - why would you add epoxy to the tip of a ski? Your tips rarely if ever make direct contact with the snow, and never make enough contact with the snow for 3mm to make any sort of difference.

You are obsessing over something that makes absolutely no difference and is completely unidentifiable when you're on the snow. I seriously don't understand - is this some type of image thing or you just want to be able to say your skis are center mounted? Your skis are just under two tenths of a single percentage point off center - if that is enough to create this big of an issue, I'd hate to see how long you spend in front of the mirror getting dressed each morning.
Jan 17 2013 10:35AM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
I don't see anything wrong with wanting it exact, it plays head games with me even though It doesn't actually make any difference, I'm sure I'm not the only person who this would bother a bit, if your skiis where a slight bit off you would find it disappointing I'm sure
Jan 18 2013 1:27AM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
sure, if that's what makes you sleep at night...
Jan 18 2013 3:30AM
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SlugInfinite
Posts: 666 - Karma: 191
It is inherently an inexact process. I'm sure my skis are off from a perfect center mount, I understand it makes no difference, so it doesn't play head games with me. You should probably get that OCD checked out, professionally.
Jan 18 2013 1:12PM
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SlugInfinite
Posts: 666 - Karma: 191
It is inherently an inexact process. I'm sure my skis are off from a perfect center mount, I understand it makes no difference, so it doesn't play head games with me. You should probably get that OCD checked out, professionally.
Jan 18 2013 1:12PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
To all above posts it's both skis that are forward by 3mm from centre not just one
Jan 21 2013 4:11PM
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Kimmler
Posts: 1316 - Karma: 625
seems to be what everyone else is saying, but ill just say it again. 3mm is gonna make no difference. idk how you even noticed. just forget about it
Jan 21 2013 9:09PM
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M.M
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 4,490
ohh flippppp! your skis are messed an you wont have swag
Jan 21 2013 9:17PM
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Kimmler
Posts: 1316 - Karma: 625
and actually it means it would be 87.35 tip and 87.65 tail. which is essentially NOTHING
Jan 21 2013 10:20PM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
No 87.8 cm tail 87.2 nose
Jan 22 2013 12:06AM
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chuckmarty
Posts: 344 - Karma: 446
skis has one i
Jan 22 2013 12:07AM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
If you have nothing to say other than hate don't post on this thread
Jan 22 2013 1:18AM
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Kimmler
Posts: 1316 - Karma: 625
yeah forget this, don't know what i was thinking. still a stupid thing to fuss over. you will never be able to feel the difference.
Jan 22 2013 1:26AM
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phreshpow
Posts: 834 - Karma: 133
As others have said, this will make no difference what-so-ever. I can't even believe you are so anal about a pair of park skis, there are many racers who wouldn't even measure their ski mounts to that precision

How this probably did happen is that the jig wasn't made to accommodate your boot and that specific year/model of your binding with the same hole pattern they have probably been using for years. The combination of these two things, along with human error, probably lead to your boot being SLIGHTLY off from the true center of the ski when the forward pressure was set. Think about it, unless they are new boots you have probably worn off a mm or 2 from your toe and heel just from skiing and walking/hiking in them.

Go out, have fun and pretend you didn't measure to that precision (which it is probably questionable as to whether or not your measuring device is even precise to within +/- 1mm)...you won't even know the difference!
Jan 22 2013 1:46AM
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@swag
Posts: 60 - Karma: 45
My boots are so worn down that's definatly what did it thanks man good post
Jan 22 2013 1:50AM
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