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Bringing back the draft. Thoughts?

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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
http://journalstar.com/news/opinion/editorial/columnists/column-gen-mcchrystal-says-it-s-time-to-bring-back/article_574839ca-2755-5db4-a4a3-bafa73703f2f.html

Personally, I'm for it. When the country goes to war, all of its citizens should be affected. In that way everyone has skin in the game, and maybe there would be more resistance to getting into conflicts like Iraq.

what do you think, ns?
Jul 14 2012 1:17AM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
false.

a very large and powerful manufacturing sector absolutely supports all kinds of war. the arms manufacturers. they get to sell killing machines to both sides and make a fortune off it.

they are for war.
Jul 14 2012 1:08PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
live in a country with a draft. but obviously in austria there was very little chance of being engaged in a war during my time in the military.

its not too bad. for some kids its even great. like they learn to shut up once in a while and learn to clean a bathroom and shit. COC, survival and shooting is kinda fun, but i wouldnt say its general knowledge.

obviously, this all changes when there is a legit chance of being sent to a war.
Jul 14 2012 1:21PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
draft? we don't need a draft. the government has highly effective tools like mass produced video games such as call of duty to convince people to enlist.
Jul 14 2012 1:24PM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
well, i'd be eligible for a draft, good thing I could just go back to Canada. i think Nam worked out real well for all americans right?
Jul 14 2012 1:30PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
what ages is the draft for? i still think its crazy that 18 year olds can be drafted. i mean a lot of people are mature enough and capable of handling something like war by then, but so many still have the mental strength and maturity of a 12 year old.
Jul 14 2012 1:34PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
ummm I think we have more than enough people in the military and part of the national guard. If we had to start drafting people we might as well sign the treaty and give up.

plus you are a fucking pussy and probably wouldnt be able to shoot anyone.
Jul 14 2012 1:41PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
the vast majority of soldiers in a firefight aim to miss. there's only a very small proportion who actually aim to kill.
Jul 14 2012 1:42PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
lol thats the dumbest shit I have ever heard.

when someone is shooting at you IN A FIRE FIGHT you dont aim to fucking miss. I mean if you want to die go ahead but really I mean this is the stupid shit I have ever heard.
Jul 14 2012 1:48PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
kill or be killed. what would you do?
Jul 14 2012 1:49PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
no. seriously. people are different in war. they aim to miss or don't fire at all.

read "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society"


it's very interesting. this was, however, mostly based on WW2 in which a large portion of soldiers were never meant to be soldiers due to drafts etc.

but yea. there is a minority of soldiers who aim to kill.
Jul 14 2012 1:51PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
See Roger Spiller's "S.L.A. Marshall and the Ratio of Fire"
Jul 14 2012 1:51PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
dude General Marshalls reports were all later found to be false and most of the numbers he was using were made up.
Jul 14 2012 1:53PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
also this quote is very related.

“Patriots always talk of dying for their country, but never of killing for their country.”
Jul 14 2012 1:53PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
if anything maybe a minority in WWII since it was a draft war but not now. Training changed since WWII and so have people. People now join the military because thats they want to be in the military. Back then they didnt really want to have to leave home.
Jul 14 2012 1:56PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Yup.
Jul 14 2012 1:58PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
whos quote is that??

Seems stupid. Ya I am going to go take a bullet to face for my country maybe all my buddies will do that to!! When we are all dead and no one is left to fight(since no one wants to shoot someone) we can just let whoever we are fighting just walk right into our country and call it home! yaaa dont shoot guys just die for our country, just make a wall for the bullets to hit!!

No one wants to kill. When someone is shooting at you trying to kill you, you will shoot back and not aim high.
Jul 14 2012 1:59PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
well that's the point. a draft army is not an effective army. you get people who just don't belong there. they can be perfectly physically fit and able but just don't possess the right mind for it. a well trained army of those who want to be there (those ready to kill) could no doubt beat out a draft army 5 times or more its size
Jul 14 2012 2:01PM
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crunkiest
Posts: 369 - Karma: 21
you nailed that one
Jul 14 2012 2:01PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
cowards lol


exactly why our generation is pussy ass bitches compared to the generation of our grandparents.

there was no sit down with Hitler and have a nice conversation and just tell him to stop...would have loved to see some hippies try that shit.
Jul 14 2012 2:02PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
this guys quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell
Jul 14 2012 2:03PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
which is why in my original post I said you wouldnt be able to kill anyone because you are a pussy. which is true if what you are saying is true.

this is why we have an army that people wanted to join because they understand they will probably have to aim for peoples chest not 5 feet above their head.
Jul 14 2012 2:03PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
I just brought it up because calling someone a pussy for not being able to shoot to kill is a dumb thing to say.
Jul 14 2012 2:06PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
omg stop it
Jul 14 2012 2:08PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
Good discussion, ns. I'm proud of you.
Jul 14 2012 3:04PM
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Alexander_Keith
Posts: 3204 - Karma: 25

I prefer:

"I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country." -George C. Scott as General Patton.

Jul 14 2012 3:08PM
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
My high school history teacher was a medic in Nam. He and his squad were all on acid one night when they were ambushed. nobody knew what to do and then his bestfriend was shot in the neck. It was my teachers job to save him but he was tripping too hard so he just held his best friend in his arms as he died. Super f-ed up way to die.
Jul 14 2012 4:10PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
not true. inform yourself.
Jul 14 2012 4:18PM
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Dr.Dickless
Posts: 2620 - Karma: 1,392
the big issue is that we don't fight/havent fought, just for the sheer preservation of our country since the civil war. There have always been other reasons, often political, for going to war, so generally about half of people will be against a war
Jul 14 2012 4:21PM
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ONTerriible
Posts: 1210 - Karma: 126
My stance on the draft is no. My reasoning behind this is that if i was a person who willingly joined the military knowing full well about what i was going into without any second thoughts I would not want the man or woman standing next to me, a person that i rely on, a person who could save my life to be hesitant on whether or not they could pull the trigger if they needed to.

That is the reason why i have so much respect for the men and women in the armed forces. These people knowingly sacrifice their lives for their country and they deserve the ultimate respect for doing the job no one else has the courage to do.
Jul 14 2012 4:25PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
a lot of them wouldnt join if they have other issues. like poorer people relying on military-funded education and stuff.
Jul 14 2012 4:32PM
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corona
Posts: 12751 - Karma: 32,253
except it's true. and no, it does not mean people are pussies. it means people value human life.

and I don't believe it would be that simple for you. anyone who says that without having killed someone is lying to themselves.
Jul 14 2012 4:39PM
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ONTerriible
Posts: 1210 - Karma: 126
But they are still joining regardless, accepting the risks, especially in a country in open war. It's not like they join the military to get a better education and then not expect to be deployed. whereas a person who is drafted never gets a chance to accept those risks himself/herself. I guess what I'm trying to say really is that I would much rather have a smaller better trained military of motivated volunteers than a larger military force of people who lack motivation because they have no desire to serve in the military.
Jul 14 2012 4:42PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
Haha, actually i think it would be pretty simple, honestly. I've had my fair share shooting guns and if i'm about to be shot in war. I would not hesitate to shoot the person aiming at me.
Jul 14 2012 4:43PM
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Matt_Rossi
Posts: 431 - Karma: 785
This. I want to go to college in BC... Looks like I'd have to
Jul 14 2012 4:48PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4197 - Karma: 10,366
A lot of you in here are talking all hardcore like you could shoot someone in the face if they're shooting at you, and I'm sure some of you could.

But I assure you most of you are wannabe hoodrat shitheads who think shooting someone in an actual war is the same as shooting someone from your couch on COD.
Jul 14 2012 5:43PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
hardcore, wannabe hoodrrat??


Try just a normal person who doesn't want to die in the war and would do whatever it took to stay alive..


GTFO
Jul 14 2012 5:45PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
I'm all for it. The average US citizen is way too removed from our military and the wars it fights. Plus it wouldn't affect me, I'm already in.
Jul 14 2012 5:47PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14477 - Karma: 10,515
Good thing I tore one ACL and dislocated the other knee. The US will never go to war again anyway, that's not how it works anymore.
Jul 14 2012 5:54PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
See Roger Spiller's "S.L.A. Marshall and the Ratio of Fire"

General Marshalls shit has been proved wrong.
Jul 14 2012 6:12PM
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bdarb207
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438
Unless tperson next to you in a firefight was drafted has no intention of being there and you both get fucked up. Regardless thanks for your service.
Jul 14 2012 6:18PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
Very true, I agree with that. Luckily I'm in a unit where no draftees would end up, can't force them to be airborne.
Jul 14 2012 6:24PM
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JIBpsy^^
Posts: 2851 - Karma: 36
except the majority of people instead of firing back to try to kill whomever is shooting at them would panic and only worry about not dieing. There is nothing simple about killing another person. Sure logic says shoot back but when the adrenaline kicks in logic has very little influence. that is why some people survive 5 plus tours of frontline duty because they are not impaired by fear during a fire fight and shoot to kill. Don't you fucking tell me you have what it takes to kill a man.
Jul 15 2012 1:07AM
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Film.
Posts: 2631 - Karma: 2,462
Seriously. If I did get drafted I would say fuck that shit and go off to Canada and forever be happy.
Jul 15 2012 1:19PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Wouldn't they impose some kind of system to see that no one got away just like that? A unified information system and more thorough checks at airports, ports and borders to not have a huge amount of deserters on hand?
Jul 15 2012 1:25PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
In comparison, if you don't show up to your appointed "draft" for assigning to military service on time, you get a fine, a warrant for your arrest and cops knocking at your door later the same day.

I'd say if it was something more serious, as in getting drafted to a force in open war, they'd pay a bit more mind to wannabe deserters.
Jul 15 2012 1:29PM
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Film.
Posts: 2631 - Karma: 2,462
Yes but think about how many people would be doing that. In your state hell even in your town. You could have some time to get away to a remote location even in the States like a small cabin in the mountains in a small mountain town. Police and government you would be so busy with other people trying to find not just you.
Jul 15 2012 1:36PM
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ColinB
Posts: 1452 - Karma: 2,236
a draft ruins the idea that America is a "free" country. everybody in this nation should be allowed to choose whether to join the military as they do now. In the case of a world war, i understand the draft. but theres no way that i'd be okay with them drafting me into some stupid politician's private oil war.
Jul 15 2012 1:47PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Sure, but things have changed a lot back then.

I wonder how many fled to Mehixo.
Jul 15 2012 1:56PM
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_DUSTY_
Posts: 1097 - Karma: 686
You would definitely see a hike in deaths if you had a draft force in a country like afghanistan where the primary threat is IED's. I think that militaries that are primarily fighting terrorist threats should focus on creating a more specialized force for dealing with this new form of warfare. Throwing a bunch of untrained men into a country filled with IED's will quickly fill up hospitals with men who don't know what they are doing.

That being said NATO forces were stretched very thin throughout Afghanistan and we need to find a way to increase the military effectiveness of all countries.
Jul 15 2012 3:53PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
We have all that now and a foot soldier populace of about half a million....
Jul 15 2012 5:47PM
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