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Near Fatal Avalanche: PLAY IT SAFE

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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
Be careful out there everyone, just a heads up! This happened just outside of Crested Butte Colorado, in the Irwin CO backcountry 2 days ago.



The people in the video are Brent toepper and Brandon clabaugh, each of which live up in irwin Co with me, they definitely got lucky and couldn't be more thankful to have made it out alive.


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Irwin-Media-House/110305452425727

Scope out our facebook page with more pictures, and some other backcountry edits. Like it if you enjoy, we're going to be dropping lots of cool stuff as the winter goes on.


FC
Jan 30 2012 10:15PM
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POWDER.RANGER
Posts: 1698 - Karma: -24
holy shit they're a couple of lucky bastards
Jan 30 2012 10:22PM
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cheener12
Posts: 2881 - Karma: 5,884
Soooo lucky
Jan 30 2012 11:00PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3336 - Karma: 5,677
damn dude. I bet they start using more gentle approaches after this.
Jan 31 2012 12:51AM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
BUMP.
Jan 31 2012 12:25PM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
That was plain stupid. There's so many signs that an avalanche is highly likely to happen.
Hopefully they'll learn something outta this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're ok, but that wasn't the smartest face to ski.
Jan 31 2012 1:26PM
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BCASSASSIN
Posts: 1330 - Karma: 37
Exactly, anyone with any backcountry education would know by looking at that face that it was unsafe. 
Jan 31 2012 1:36PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
you last two people who posted are idiots. how do you know the face is going to slide by looking at it? seriously, most people on NS shouldn't be allowed to talk about avalanches.



I would like to know a few things though.

What was the avalanche forecast for the day?
What time of day did this happen?
Did the skiers trigger it? directly? remotely?
Looks like it was south facing - what was the temperature at the time?


Jan 31 2012 3:10PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
actually, maybe it's east facing based on the shadows off the lookers left ridge. probably morning to mid day? do you know how old the natural sluffing off said ridge is?
Jan 31 2012 3:15PM
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J_MAC
Posts: 572 - Karma: 127
i want a before and after picture side by side
Jan 31 2012 3:21PM
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wootang
Posts: 284 - Karma: 404

Not to start a shit storm but....

It is a south facing aspect. If you watch the time lapse, the shadows cast by the rocks get longer as the shot progresses. This means the sun is traveling left to right across the screen as we see it, which means the face is somewhat south facing, exposing it to more sun effect and making it generally more stable this time of year than a north facing aspect would have been. That is notwithstanding the outside temp, which if it were warm enough would have made a south facing aspect less stable. Judging by their clothes however, it probably wasn't all that warm out.

That "sluffing" was pretty serious for a slope of less than 35 deg (I would estimate), but it was located more under the rock outcropping than in the traditional slide path. This indicates it may have come off of the rocks above and thus wouldn't tell us much about the stability.

It looks to be mid afternoon from the length of the shadows.

They did not perform any stability check on the face, which may have shown something useful.

Sure, we don't know the forecast. I would venture a guess however that it was not favorable for south facing aspects.

They did manage to travel almost completely outside of the slide path, indicating they know something of what they were doing.

Anyway...without knowing the forecast or any more details, it seemed like a somewhat reasonable face to tackle.

OP...do you have a copy of the forecast for that day? Can you confirm the aspect, time of day and temp? It would be very interesting to see what they said. We may learn something.


Jan 31 2012 3:41PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
you can stay.
Jan 31 2012 3:45PM
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Sun_Ra
Posts: 983 - Karma: 279
The first thing that catches my eye is the traces of a natural avalanche right where they were climbing. If it was fresh from the day, it was plain stupid to go hike in this zone since in this case, it means that the snow was so unstable that avalanches occur without the weight of 2 skiers...
Jan 31 2012 3:51PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
Ya people need to chill out, we've skied that face multiple times and took the same approach each time before. There's a multiple faces on that Mtn and only two different approaches to take. They skied that in the early AM, temperatures were definitely warmer up as they got towards the top. The avalanche forecast has been pretty High for the past few weeks,so they definitely were taking a chance. Brandon Clabaugh who was in front on the ridge heard and felt the loudest WOOMF ever, yelled down at Brent and each jumped further onto the ridge! Luckily they were in a semi good spot and the fracture was a good 30+ feet in front of them. 20 seconds later the whole other side (lookers left) slid out and almost took out his sled and camera.

I wasn't around for this ski, things could have been a lot worse with three people, we're all just glad things turned out how they did. It ended up being a cool shot and that's why i thought i'd share.


Before

Click for larger image

After

Click for larger image

Click for larger image


Jan 31 2012 3:58PM
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xoxxooxo
Posts: 462 - Karma: 31
LOL
Jan 31 2012 3:59PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
what you are seeing there is just natural sluffing off the the rocky ridge. Being a south facing run, the sun heats up the rocks (and the snow around it) causing natural sluffing to occur. Doesn't really have anything to do with any instability in the snowpack itself.

If there was a flagged instability on south facing slopes in the avalanche report for the day than it could be something to note (because as the slope warms up the snow gets heavier, which could make it easier to trigger the questionable layer) But based on the next to nothing of information we have on the slope other than it's aspect, there's no way we can say anything about the situation.
Jan 31 2012 4:01PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
http://avalanche.state.co.us/obs/obs_report.php?obs_id=11714

Here's a full report i just found..

People all around the valley were definitely talking about this..
Jan 31 2012 4:10PM
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BCASSASSIN
Posts: 1330 - Karma: 37
Because I had already seen the article and studied up on it, therefore I knew the conditions, time of day etc.... You sir are the idiot.  Now stop typing to me....
Jan 31 2012 4:14PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
if you had already seen an article and studied up on it, maybe it would have been more beneficial towards this discussion if you had of mentioned such information in your first post.

Don't get all hissy with me because your post didn't add anything to the conversation but blind hate with no information to back it up.
Jan 31 2012 4:28PM
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wootang
Posts: 284 - Karma: 404
Um...holy shit that was a big slab.

On another note...I'm not all that experienced reading snow pack reports, but they mentioned the fact that the south facing aspects had virtually no snow on them before the recent round of storms. I wonder if that had anything to do with the instability. Moreover....would that be something to seriously consider in a fucked up winter like this one when there is no snow and then a big dump? Anything we can learn from that?

Also for OP...any idea of how close the skiers were to the break point? It didn't even look like they triggered it directly.

And thank you...I shall stay.
Jan 31 2012 5:04PM
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soccerstar1111
Posts: 70 - Karma: 10
id shit my pants before i touched the avalanche, luckily their alive
Jan 31 2012 5:08PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
Yep, the snowpack hasn't been this bad in years out here, really sucks. Still got to get out there and have fun, just have watch out and no what you're doing.


Brandon who was in front was at least 30 feet from the break point, brent was even further away luckily.



Jan 31 2012 9:09PM
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Baskilla
Posts: 409 - Karma: 201
HOLY SHIT MON... Big slide and Im glad you guys are alright. Its good to post shit like this just to keep it fresh in peoples minds how gnarly this stuff can be... GLAD TO SEE YOU GUYS ARE GOOD THO FO SHO!!!!
Jan 31 2012 10:44PM
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Mister.F
Posts: 1206 - Karma: 169
hahaha
Jan 31 2012 10:58PM
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ski_ENDUB
Posts: 2535 - Karma: 86
considering that there were already debris piles from smaller, earlier slides looking at that face and assuming that it could very likely slide would be a reasonable expectation.
Jan 31 2012 11:05PM
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wootang
Posts: 284 - Karma: 404
Meh....those were mostly patches of rock sluff. Considering the layer that failed was more than a meeter below the surface, that sort of sluffing was completely unrelated to snowpack stability. That wouldn't have been an issue for me anyway...

Besides...think about every backcountry section you've ever watched. If they never skied when there was serious sluffing, ski movies would be pretty boring.
Feb 1 2012 11:23AM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
Yep, got to take chances to get the shots..
Feb 1 2012 11:47AM
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Dr-Strangelove
Posts: 125 - Karma: 18
This just seems incredibly stupid. Considerable/High danger (depending on which day this occurred) means it is likely/very likely that a human can trigger a slide. Ruby is a large mountain. I feel like this is painfully obvious to anyone w/ any sense of avalanche safety or how snow works and fails.

glad your friends are alive though
Feb 1 2012 12:46PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
Ya i think you have do deal with that factor skiing anything above tree line, especially this year... These guys definitely know what they're doing compared to most, that's why they're still alive.


Feb 1 2012 3:08PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
Jesus you could tell by just their skin track choice, they have no fucking business being back there. Only a matter of time before these idiots become a statistic... there I said it. And given how fucking downright shitty the snowpack is everywhere in Colorado (2-3 feet of SUGAR at the very bottom), I will armchair the fuck out of this video. There is absolutely ZERO reason to be in the backcountry. But fuck it I suppose... you gotta feed your sponsors and prove your radness, right?? I have about as high of a backcountry risk tolerance as anyone out there and I have no desire to even THINK about heading out there until April/May at best. Unless we get a ton of snow to flush out the facets, we're fucked until a warm cycle hits.
Feb 1 2012 3:17PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
bahhahahahahahha, one reason of being in the backcountry is, we live in the middle of the backcountry... So yes it's where we ski broo. but if you want to wait till april/may be my guest haha, this is are backyard and what we do..


Where they skinned was probably the only part that didn't fracture off buddy...
Feb 1 2012 3:22PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
They skinned right up the fucking gut.

And nice response, "this is my backyard brah!" Sweet attitude, hope Darwin doesn't bite you in the fucking ass. Get more experience then try not to kill yourselves.
Feb 1 2012 3:25PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
That's the only skin route to ski what they wanted to ski, and they thought the conditions were right, their mistake.

Well we live 8 miles out of the nearest town, can't drive cars in the winter, and in the heart of the backcountry. That mountain is less then a mile from our house, we wake up everyday looking at that beast and that was the day the wanted to slay it. Bad decision, we learn from out mistakes.
Feb 1 2012 3:29PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
And if I'm harsh, it's because this season is the worst many of us have seen in years and I'm tired of people dying when much could be avoided. I'm not the preacher type, but the shit I've been seeing and reading on NS and particular on TGR is downright frightening. Just recently, I had some numbskull tell me that skier compaction is a sure sign of safety and that LL Pass is just as safe as the resort when in fact, skier compaction means jack shit in the backcountry.

Just the other weekend, I set off a 30" crown in tight trees at maybe 30* at Beaver Creek, in-bounds. Patrol was doing work on another section of trees that is unheardof. Saying "this is all we have" is not a good excuse, but if it REALLY boils down to that, stick to trees under 25*. It's not uber gnar and won't get you bragging points, but it's a better option then choosing such a high consequence face as the one pictured in the video.

Feb 1 2012 3:36PM
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forrest-cole
Posts: 1145 - Karma: 495
Ya it's definitely been a messed up year... Definitely will be keeping things a bit more chill until things change up.

Feb 1 2012 4:04PM
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3ski6guy0
Posts: 9201 - Karma: 132
As someone with backcountry knowledge I can say that was some very poor decision making even without any further information other than looking at the face and knowing what the danger has been the last week. Good thing everyone was ok
Feb 1 2012 4:04PM
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Thadius.Castle
Posts: 1436 - Karma: 250
Am I the only one that realized the natural beauty of that sled?
Feb 1 2012 4:21PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
As to actually add something of substance, here's an excellent snow assessment tool to use that is quick to use and easy to interpret (with backing from Andrew McLean):

http://straightchuter.com/2009/01/the-extended-column-test-ect/

Feb 1 2012 5:16PM
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wootang
Posts: 284 - Karma: 404
Fuck that brah. This thread is all about pissing all over everyone else who has a comment, so as to prove that YOU are the smartest, ballsiest, most experienced back country skier in the western hemisphere.

Don't even think about contributing anything positive. This is a place for HATE.

Fucking fuck fucker cock suckers.
Feb 2 2012 11:29AM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
well, to be fair. If I knew the information they did prior to attempting to ski that face, I probably wouldn't have even gone near the alpine, let alone touched anything steep and exposed.

the "this is my backyard" attitude will get you guys killed one day.
Feb 2 2012 12:09PM
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wootang
Posts: 284 - Karma: 404
I actually kindof agree. Personally I wouldn't have gone out with that report. I was just taking shots at the idea that you could discern purely from the video before the slide  that conditions were not stable enough to go out.
Feb 2 2012 2:36PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,564
^^^^
THIS
Feb 2 2012 2:47PM
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ChasingFlakes
Posts: 822 - Karma: 1,544
well i think we can all agree that they fucked up. based on the avy info ,personally there would have been way to much risk to be skiing anything above treeline. I think that a few stability tests would have gone a long way. But you were all spared, hope you learned something.
Feb 2 2012 6:09PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
yeah, i'm with you on that. I live in BC, so the avy conditions in Colorado are unbeknownst to me. The first few comments were very general and sounded very uneducated, despite their knowledge of the local conditions. I feel like things got very out of context. (stupid internet)

Feb 2 2012 6:09PM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9221 - Karma: 9,939
to anyone that is calling them out for not having enough experience in the BC. They legit live in the middle of the backcountry. The closest trailhead is a couple miles out and they ski BC just about everyday. I guarantee they have more experience and knowledge than anyone posting in this thread, myself included. It was a close call i'm just glad no one got hurt, sometimes that Colorado snowpack is tough to judge. shred on

- sour steezle crew
Feb 2 2012 6:19PM
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8710 - Karma: 5,615
word im takin an avy course this weekend
Feb 2 2012 6:28PM
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Dr.Gnar
Posts: 896 - Karma: 197
Hahah
Feb 2 2012 8:08PM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12808 - Karma: 1,945
umm, the avy forcast for pretty much the entire state of Colorado has been "considerable" for most of the month. over the past few weeks we have been finally getting snowfall so people are wanting to get out. of course an aspect like this is at risk slide given that under the new snow is layers of facets with windslab in between...all the way to the ground. it's actually pretty common knowledge (around the area) how unsafe our snowpack is currently.
Feb 2 2012 8:18PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
and if you read the whole thread, you would realize that you're an idiot.
Feb 2 2012 11:07PM
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Drail
Posts: 14011 - Karma: 10,001
Pretty sure no one is questioning their experience, just their choices. The most "experienced" are also the most likely to die - it's a straight up statistical fact sadly enough.
Feb 2 2012 11:09PM
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Ryanvdonk
Posts: 12808 - Karma: 1,945
never heard of ADD i guess...
Feb 2 2012 11:31PM
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