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Is this the way skiing is going to be from now on?

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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
I know many of you are probably expecting some dumb thread on aerials and triples or mute grabs. If you came here looking for that, I would click the back button, and turn around, because that's not what this thread is about.

I have done no fact checking to write this, as I am not professional, and have no time to do that, so please correct me, if I am wrong off the top of my head, but do so respectfully.

Resume thread:


Is this what skiing is going to be from now on? Every year, we lose one or two incredibly inspiring and influential skiers? First Shane, then CR, Jamie Pierre in 2011 and now Sarah Burke?

What is happening with our sport? Are we pushing the limits too far? Going too big?

In the past few years, our sport has progressed incredibly fast. Whether it means going bigger off of cliffs, doing more spins and flips, or going bigger. We are seeing more injuries, and it seems like more deaths as results of crashes, avalanches, and accidents.

Previously, TBI was an unknown abbreviation in our sport. Today, just about any 15 year old skier or snowboarder could tell you that it stands for Traumatic Brain Injury.

Is our sport getting too dangerous?
Jan 19 2012 7:17PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
mmm, never mind fact checking statement. I thought the "facts" I provided were to sketchy, deleted it.
Jan 19 2012 7:17PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285
I would say yes the tricks getting too big too quick. the competitors and athletes need time to develope these tricks and to be able to land them properly with safety. I feel that soon this will be a bigger thing in skiing such as football just went through. These athletes need more time to do these things safely! I am devestated by all these losses now we just need these upcoming kids to develope safer helmets!
Jan 19 2012 7:21PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
Safer helmets I think are definitely necessary. There are currently two standards for helmets in skiing which do not at all apply to the market of freestyle.

I think that helmets need to be tested in new ways for accidents that are likely to happen in freestyle, and protect against them more.
Jan 19 2012 7:25PM
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.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
From what i can tell, it has little to do with how the sport is being pushed, both C.R. and from what i know, Sarah died in accidents that seemed to be pretty mellow compared to what they usually do, I think that sometimes you just have that bad luck that could unfortunately lead to injury or even death. The moment you click into your bindings you are putting yourself at risk and it is up to each individual to decide if what you get from skiing is worth your life. I can say for myself that i acknowledge the risks but am willing to keep skiing because of it's positive impacts on my life.
Jan 19 2012 7:26PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
well considering each of the people you mentioned met their end in very different ways, your point seems a bit misguided.

We notice the deaths of pros far more simply due to the exposure, but too many forget about the people killed skiing their local park, on the drive home, or in a backcountry avalanche.

Jan 19 2012 7:27PM
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dom_daq
Posts: 371 - Karma: 440
I am also devastated by these deaths, but they might not be from progressing our sport too far.

I might be wrong, so correct me if i am, but i believe that Sarah and CR both fell doing stuff that they have done before. They were just dumb accidents. i think, rather than showing that  our sporting is progressing too fast, this is more showing that you can fuck up on the smallest, most simple tricks. It only takes one stupid mistake.
Jan 19 2012 7:27PM
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FerrisBueller
Posts: 8280 - Karma: 5,173
Excellent thread chai but ill say an issue that should be resolved is pros not wearing helmets, it sets bad examples wether they are meaning to or not, and i know that a lot of YMR doesnt wear them either, i dont want anybody dying so.. everyone please wear a helmet is what im getting at.
Jan 19 2012 7:30PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
you and skier_boy are both correct. The people I mentioned were all doing fairly standard things for themselves. However, I don't think something has to be new for it to be dangerous.


Keep in mind, I am asking questions. I am probably wrong about a lot of the things that I initially posted. I suppose I am asking more what has to change to keep these things from happening.
Jan 19 2012 7:30PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285
we need to truly step up our sports protection for the athletes we are wearing coats and snowpants. there needs to be a underlayer such as a spine protector all these things will soon hopefully be required by athletes decreasing there chance of injuring them selves.
Jan 19 2012 7:31PM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2491 - Karma: 508
I second this.

It's not about "OMG PUSHING THE LIMITS SO EXTREME"...........just an inherent risk of the sport. You could hook an edge and quite literally die if you fell the wrong way.. You're zipping around on snow @ 30+ mph (not to mention jumps & dropping distances) and you think a helmet is going to be your parachute? Certainly not.
Jan 19 2012 7:31PM
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Clark_Griswold
Posts: 1283 - Karma: 48
This.
Jan 19 2012 7:32PM
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BlakeLively
Posts: 663 - Karma: 656
people make mistakes. our sport is dangerous. unfortunately, people do die. nothing is to blame, it just happens
Jan 19 2012 7:33PM
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I.B
Posts: 8137 - Karma: 24,354
I agree 100% with the safer helmets/gear.
Jan 19 2012 7:33PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
I'm tempted to call this a troll thread just because of how stupid it is.

Your evidence is weak at best. Sarah died doing a flat 7. That's not a "big" trick by any means. Shane died BASE jumping. Even though he had skis on, it's hard to call that a skiing accident.

If the sport starts to become too dangerous, it will cease to be cool, and the riders will change it to make it safer.
Jan 19 2012 7:35PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
Nevermind, I see the "YMR" in the OP's icon. Definitely a troll.
Jan 19 2012 7:37PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285
no its not the point that people are going to die its how do we fix it. I realize that these skiers are going quite fast down the hill but why is our helmets and forms of protection so outdated compared to other sports such as football. there helmets provide much more protection to both your skull and spine. also these helmets allow the coaches to read what going on in there body and if they need to be pulled out before injury or concussion or such to the head. I am just simply confused why they have all this and they are only hitting each other when we are hitting jumps and soaring in the air and all we have is a coat snowpants and the most basic helmet known to man protection wise.
Jan 19 2012 7:37PM
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J_Christoph
Posts: 2519 - Karma: 8,750
yeah ferris has a good point, helmets are always a great idea. i have a dent that looks like my ski edge in the back of mine, so im glad i wore a helmet that day so i dont have stitches right now
Jan 19 2012 7:39PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
Maybe its not that people are doing bigger and gnarlier tricks, but SOMETHING is changing.

It's not your average weekend warrior that hits their head and dies doing a sketchy, out of control straight air in the pipe. It's the pros who -- whether or not they are on that exact trick -- are out there pushing the limits.
Jan 19 2012 7:41PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
Nobody is stopping you from wearing a football helmet.

Jan 19 2012 7:41PM
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joris.blanc
Posts: 914 - Karma: 6,584
well the fact is that Freestyle skiing is a dangerous sport, you can use protection or anything, but you will never be safe from anything happening to you.
I don't thing that it is the progression that is leading to the injuries, it is an unfortunate series of little events that lead to that. Sure you can say that if you just do straight airs all of this wouldn't happen, but that isn't freeskiing.
It happens to everyone (I'd guess so at least) to mess up a trick that you already did a thousand time, and most of the time you just walk away unharmed, but in some case (doesn't have to be a huge fall, just a little tap in the wrong spot) you can be badly injured.
Freeskiing will probably never be a safe sport, even jumping into an airbag/foampit isn't without danger, you have to accept the fact you can get seriously injured when skiing, not only park, but also just on the slope .

Well at least this is my point of view.

Jan 19 2012 7:44PM
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callmeteo
Posts: 367 - Karma: 321
or a full head one, similar to those used in motorcross. but honestly, i find them unneccessary. a quality helmet should do the job fine imo
Jan 19 2012 7:45PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285

you are being a ignorrant loser! thats not the point im trying to say advancements need to be made in the protection of skiers!

Jan 19 2012 7:45PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
.


Leave, or say something that contributes to the thread.
Jan 19 2012 7:45PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 36660 - Karma: 110,395
I do think we push it a little to far sometimes but hey, Thats what this sports all about. Pushing yourself to try new things. You can die doing anything. Not just skiing. Us skiers are a family that accepts and understands the risk and the fact that everyday on the mountain could be your last. I do recommend using a helmet but sometimes that won't even save your life.

Yes, It is unfortunate that we lose people every year but it shouldn't let us stop what we're doing. We keep going where some of the modern-day legends left off with them in our hearts and minds. We do it for them.
Jan 19 2012 7:48PM
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.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
i'm not sure on your point i guess? sarah died from cardiac arrest and severed vertebral artery, CR died from falling over a bunch of rocks, and I don't quite remember how jamie died. In these cases a helmet would not have saved their lives, i would say that jumps and large scale features are designed well with safety as a priority, maybe i just don't understand what you are saying.
Jan 19 2012 7:50PM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2491 - Karma: 508
Epic bullshit.

Its what you hear about. How do you know "Joe the Plumber" didnt die last weekend trying to backflip a 5ft jump? Certainly wouldnt make national and/or international news like some top professional athlete would.
Jan 19 2012 7:53PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285
thanks for being matur about this! what im trying to get at is almost a bounce of your statement its not just helmets that need to be updated its everything! spinal protection and such things that guard you from these blows to the body other than just a coat! i undserstand either way the sport will remain dangerous and a risk for the skiers, although i feel there are new things needed to balance the progression o the sport. The bigger you go the more protection you are going to need!
Jan 19 2012 8:00PM
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84891jnf92048
Posts: 11552 - Karma: 2,550
Just because somebody isn't pro doesn't mean their deaths don't happen. People would still hear about this. It would still be on the news. I'm sure it wouldn't end up on National TV, or all over the internet, but people would still know if "Joe" died in the park. Hell, I'm sure a ton of people would know if some guy crashed in their home park and died.
Jan 19 2012 8:00PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285

Its not about who dies or lives. Its the fact that we could possibly be saving MORE lives if we updated our ways of protection for our athletets and skiers on the slopes!!

Jan 19 2012 8:04PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
Comparisons to motor sport safety could be made-so many inovations in safety to prevent traumatic brain injuries from massive accelerations (typical whip lash injuries etc which is what tragically killed Sarah Burke).
Jan 19 2012 8:05PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
Dam-phone-but safety and personal protective equipment technology needs to keep up with levels the sport is being pushed too...
Jan 19 2012 8:07PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285
You are completely right! skiing is very similar to motor sports in many ways! people are going very fast and hitting huge jumps and such and look at there helmets and protection! look how many people die in motocross compared to freeskiing! there protection should be replicated for a way skiers could use it!
Jan 19 2012 8:08PM
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BlakeG
Posts: 1450 - Karma: 1,030
I agree with more protective manditory equipment, especially spine and neck, i think a spine protector should be madatory like a helmet, but this might lead people to thinking they are invinsible, and for upper body, maybe some motocross type pads
Jan 19 2012 8:11PM
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jdilla
Posts: 706 - Karma: 41
let's face it. freeskiing in most cases is like running around on a 6 lane highway. it's fucking dangerous. it can and will kill you, but the scary part is that it can happen at any moment and sometimes when you're not even going big. you can drown in a tree well. you can be injured from faulty equipment. you can get hit by another skier. you can even hit your head ever so slightly in the wrong way and wind up dead the next day. there's a million and one things that can go wrong at any second.

sure skiing is getting out of hand, I mean look at how shane mcconkey died. but jamie pierre? he died in an avalanche skiing a somewhat early season line. and now sarah? she went from PRACTICING in the superpipe. a lot of skiers that passed on recently died doing "normal" stuff. not to shift the spotlight either (not that there should be a spotlight) but anywhere from 25-40+ skiers or snowboarders die each year inbounds. many of them just got lost off-trail at a big resort or fell into a damn tree well. seriously, think about it - you don't hear too much about skiers dying doing something insane. it's a dangerous sport that can and will claim your life at any time. you just need to try your damn hardest to execute your knowledge and best judgement to stay safe.

bottomline, go skiing. it's what we love to do, and honestly if it didn't mean leaving this earth too early I'd be more than happy to have my last mortal moments with a pair of skis strapped to my feet.
Jan 19 2012 8:11PM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2491 - Karma: 508
Swing and a miss. Completely over your head.

I give up on this thread. Statistics speak louder than news stories about celebrities.


Jan 19 2012 8:13PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285

I agree with you jdilla. I just feel these ski engineers have and should be updating new ski technology to help save lives. Bottom line here is either way people will get hurt or die but the thing is reducing it is possible and should be done. we just want our friends, family, and idols safe and having fun with what they love to do!

Jan 19 2012 8:16PM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
Some good points made here by all. I said it in a thread earlier and a few times in the past. Park and pipe are essentially the equivalent to what FMX is doing. Even more technical IMO. I've been pushing for free skiers to start rockin full face helmets. They look cool and keep your head and face warm. Seth Morrison rocks one. I wear one off and on. IMO if your a pro or pushing real hard a full face should be a bare minimum. You wouldn't see those FMX guys out there without one right? We should really try to make this the norm. The typical helmets peeps are using now just aren't enough.
Jan 19 2012 8:27PM
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momentz
Posts: 875 - Karma: 285
hahah you really have posted absolutely no statistics so way to mock your own words!
Jan 19 2012 8:32PM
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3mania
Posts: 2559 - Karma: 9,852
it's the way skiing has always been. It's you that's new here. Not the danger. Racing has lost countless athletes, avalanches have taken thousands, and crazy euro mountaineers have been killed doing what they loved for as long as people have been strapping boards to their feet. Get used to it.
Jan 19 2012 8:55PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
You are the worst poster in this thread.


He doesn't need to provide statistics to support his argument. The burden of proof lies on the person asserting the claim which in this case would be the OP.
Jan 19 2012 8:56PM
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GHardie
Posts: 124 - Karma: 16
i dont think its so much that were pushing the limits too far. i think we just need to be more and more safety conscious as the tricks get bigger and bigger. skiing is a dangerous sport thats just a fact this kid that i used to go to school with was just skiing though some trees not doing anything out of the ordinary and he hit one and died.
Jan 19 2012 9:11PM
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Taubie05
Posts: 53 - Karma: 11

This.  What's with nobody wearing helmets during urban?

Do people think you're more likely to hit your head skiing powder than doing a 270 onto a sketchy urban rail over a sement stair case with hardly any snow?

This seems to be the general consensus considering you never see Sage Cattabriga-Alosa skiing without a helmet, but none of the urban skiers seem to wear them.

I understand nobody big has died in urban yet (I don't think), but I feel like it's soon to happen.  Especially considering how big they go now.

Jan 19 2012 9:11PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
helmets won't get oxygen to your brain when your're out:(
Jan 19 2012 9:18PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
bingo
Jan 19 2012 9:24PM
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ForeverYung
Posts: 8385 - Karma: 2,060
Like people have said before, it's not progression, hell you could say it's not even freeskiing, you could be ripping down a groomer, catch an edge and hit a tree. It not only freeskiing that is dangerous, every time you get off that lift you are putting you self in danger.
Jan 19 2012 9:43PM
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ForeverYung
Posts: 8385 - Karma: 2,060
Your*
Jan 19 2012 9:43PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4197 - Karma: 10,366
Last year, a girl on my local hill died. She fell, on the bunny hill, with a helmet on, and hit her head. So yes, it is your average weekend warrior that hits their head and dies, you just don't hear about it, cuz lets face it, you don't give a shit about them. Of course pros are pushing the limits, thats their job.



^^ fuck you SOPA
Jan 19 2012 9:57PM
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lukemeahan.
Posts: 1689 - Karma: 330
Was sarah not wearing a helmet?
Jan 19 2012 10:02PM
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wilksker
Posts: 188 - Karma: -16
Its not because skiing is progressing to fast. its because there are way more people taking big risks. its just a ratio thing. Think how many kids did you see in your local park in 2005 doing even a cork 7. now eveyone and their dog can do them. how about dropping 40+ foot cliffs. same deal. that's just what happens when more people participate. its sad that some well know people have died. but shit happens.
Jan 19 2012 10:27PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
she was. it was essentially whiplash and going into cataract arrest that killed her. her brain didnt get enough blood and oxygen.

but it is a problem with our sport. things are getting pushed so far that there are inherit risks involved with it. think back to 2005. a cork 7 was a big trick, but it is still a relatively low consequence trick. now look at the size of jumps and the tricks that are being thrown. there is a lot more risk in those.

also things happen on accident. CR's first injury was a freak accident. Sarah hitting her head in just the right way was an accident. Shane's skis not releasing soon enough was an accident. there is a risk that comes with the sport. and sometimes its not the big things that go bad, but the smaller things that shouldn't happen at all
Jan 19 2012 10:38PM
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