Member of the Month

PartyBullshiit
March, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Chemistry Help

profile picture
NTPJ
Posts: 173 - Karma: 8
Can propanone (acetone) Hydrogen bond or does it have just dipole/dipole interactions?

+k for help
Dec 4 2011 7:04AM
0 0
profile picture
Ciara
Posts: 305 - Karma: 50
I should really know this, but I don't.
Dec 4 2011 7:07AM
0 0
profile picture
snowisholywater
Posts: 337 - Karma: 57
propanone contains oxygen and hydrogen, now i am no chemistry genius, but it should hydrogen bond.
Dec 4 2011 7:19AM
0 0
profile picture
NTPJ
Posts: 173 - Karma: 8
Thats what I thought, but i can't visualise how it would fit together, in the same way water can,

anyway +k
Dec 4 2011 7:21AM
0 0
profile picture
snowisholywater
Posts: 337 - Karma: 57
how high is the melting/boiling point? it should give you an indication as to the intermolecular bonding present i think as hydrogen bonding is the strongest of the intermolecular forces
Dec 4 2011 7:31AM
0 0
profile picture
NTPJ
Posts: 173 - Karma: 8
56 oc for boiling, I have to compare the forces with propanone and butane (-0.5 oc). They have the same no. of electrons so the same london forces. It just depends on whether they H-bond or just have permanent dipoles
Dec 4 2011 7:56AM
0 0
profile picture
Black.Bird
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 684
You guys are wrong.
Propanone is not an alcohol, meaning there is no OH group creating hydrogen bonds with other molecules. Propanone is different then propanol. It's a ketone, so it has dipole-dipole attractions.
Dec 4 2011 8:24AM
0 0
profile picture
NTPJ
Posts: 173 - Karma: 8
I know its a ketone. Surely it doesn't have to be an -OH group for H-bonding to occur?
'I'll trust you anyway..
Thanks for the help +k
Dec 4 2011 8:45AM
0 0
profile picture
feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
seriously guys?

noone knew horseshit when i asked for that math optimization.

you cannot be serious.

and i am mad

cool story bro

fuck off

i am mad






jk, its not that bad














well actually it is
Dec 4 2011 8:59AM
0 0
profile picture
Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652

Thats because optimization sucks balls....

Dec 4 2011 10:44AM
0 0
profile picture
a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9210 - Karma: 5,357
yeah I hate math. anyway, acetone looks like this

O
ll
H3C-C-CH3

that took some time. but there's no hydrogen bond within acetone, but the carbonyl part can interact with water. thats the C=O part.
Dec 4 2011 10:49AM
0 0
profile picture
VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
With resonance there's the potential to hydrogen bond but that would happen so infrequently that effectively No there will not be H bonds formed. This is why acetone evaporates very quickly and makes a good solvent
Dec 4 2011 11:52AM
0 0
profile picture
airic
Posts: 720 - Karma: 16
Acetone CANNOT hydrogen bond with other acetone molecules, but it CAN form hydrogen bonds with water or other substances with N, O, or F atom directly bonded to an H atom.
Dec 4 2011 12:39PM
0 0
profile picture
e.wait
Posts: 869 - Karma: 1,954
Put simply, it experiences dipole-dipole IMFs, not hydrogen bonding.
Dec 4 2011 12:53PM
0 0
profile picture
tds103
Posts: 679 - Karma: 74
You can only have Hydrogen bonding if Hydrogen is bonded to a Nitrogen, Fluorine, or a Oxygen. If you look at the structure that doesn't happen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Acetone-CRC-MW-ED-dimensions-2D.png

i just had a chem test on this stuff yesterday and Hydrogen bonding was the only thing i got. hope this helps
Dec 4 2011 1:00PM
0 0
profile picture
AdamP
Posts: 13 - Karma: 10
Many of the replies in this thread are wrong!

acetone contains an oxygen with two lone pairs and hence can act as a hydrogen bond acceptor. Since it does not contain an electronegtive element (O,F, N) bound to a hydrogen, it cannot act as a hydrogen bond donor. Since it is only capable of being a hydrogen bond acceptor, it would not be capable of hydrogen bonding with itself. However, in solution, it could hydrogen bond with water since water contains a O-H bond.

Soooooooooo, acetone is capable of hydrogen bonding so long as the other party is a hydrogen bond donor.

Hope that helps!
Dec 4 2011 2:12PM
0 0
profile picture
Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 192
just put the lime in the coconut

























and stir it all up :)
Dec 4 2011 2:39PM
0 0
profile picture
bciddy
Posts: 13 - Karma: 10
Acetone is a ketone, thus it has an oxygen double bonded to the 2nd carbon of the chain. Since hydrogen bonding can only occur with an interaction of an H with N, O, F it is possible to occur. The most likely way that it will happen is if the oxygen gets protinated by an acid, and then a proton transfer reaction would have to occur throughout the compound to get rid of the double bond/ Positively charged oxygen as well as a nucleophilic addition reaction (b/c oxygen will not stably be positive) .....but in short, yea it can form a hydrogen bond, but only if the hydrogen is added from another molecule. Also, if your'e just comparing the strengths of butane and propane, propane will be much stronger because it has a dipole moment between the C and the O (the C being slightly positive, while the O is slightly negative). Hope you find this helpful
Dec 4 2011 2:46PM
0 0
profile picture
NTPJ
Posts: 173 - Karma: 8
thanks for the help, +k for everyone
Dec 4 2011 4:21PM
0 0
profile picture
tds103
Posts: 679 - Karma: 74
but as it is, it doesn't have hydrogen bonding forces.

/jelly of your chem skill thread
Dec 4 2011 4:53PM
0 0
profile picture
thedawg
Posts: 730 - Karma: 452
bummed i missed that thread optimization is mah shiiittt
Dec 4 2011 5:26PM
0 0
profile picture
squibble
Posts: 4569 - Karma: 104
id go with this
Dec 4 2011 6:11PM
0 0
profile picture
AdamP
Posts: 13 - Karma: 10
Yup. Since acetone can only act as a H-bond acceptor it cannot form H-bonds with itself. But it can form Hydrogen bonds with any compound which can act as a h-bond donor.
For this reason, the answer to the OP's original question is: yes acetone can form H-bonds
Dec 4 2011 6:14PM
0 0
profile picture
a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9210 - Karma: 5,357
i just realized the structure didn't even work lol. or at least I don't think it came out right. at any rate, it's methyl, carbonyl, methyl. i'm sure you know what it looks like.
Dec 4 2011 7:11PM
0 0
profile picture
CassiusClay
Posts: 1757 - Karma: 2
Exactly, optimization is the biggest bullshit topic of calc.
Dec 4 2011 8:12PM
0 0
profile picture
Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
This is exactly right. Go with this. Im in this class right now.
Dec 4 2011 8:20PM
0 0
profile picture
feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
serious? i cant name too much "topics" with more relevance to daily life
Dec 5 2011 12:41PM
0 0
profile picture
yeahno
Posts: 4008 - Karma: 3,414
quick chem question as well.
plz help



How many Moles of Ions are produced by the dissociation of 1 mol of Al2(CO3)3
Feb 22 2012 8:47PM
0 0
profile picture
DrZoidberg
Posts: 5674 - Karma: 4,227
4
Feb 22 2012 9:43PM
0 0
All times are Eastern (-4)