Electric winch?

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Thank you for the input. And thats not sarcastic.

Dec 1 2011 8:39PM

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stevets

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I'll be interested to see if this works. It makes some sense since elctric motors have all their torque at 1rpm and loose torque as the speed increases. Also 1 horsepower electric is about the same as 3 horsepower gas. Its hard to compare gas and electric because torque and rpms are what really matter. As to whether batteries will work, I see lots of golf carts, wheel chairs and fat people scooters that seem to do pretty good for pretty long. Those things run on car batteries or something close and must loose way more than 90percent of their charge.

Skol for trying new shit and screw the haters. Good thing that glen plake or the wright brothers did not come here and ask for advice. we'd still be on horses and skiing 220's in tights.

Dec 2 2011 6:29PM

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monkatizer

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thats because they run on what is known as a deep-cycle battery(s), they are very different then car batteries and much more expensive

Dec 2 2011 8:48PM

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Crazy Fool

In this thread-

OP who has a cool idea and asks for advice

Clueless people bashing OP

OP and few others fend for themselves

Clueless people start throwing out false data to OP

my face when "electric motors need more maintenance and dont do well in the low end"-

OP, i love the idea and cant wait too see how you go about building it. Dont listen to people bashing you in the thread because they have no idea what they are talking about.

Youre going to havta search for the right kind of motor for this project (keep in mind that gas motor HP =/= electric motor HP)be sure you compare the motors nameplate (the thing riveted on it with all the information) and the battery outputs.

Dec 2 2011 9:29PM

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Oh and OP
check this shit

http://www.boodogwinches.com/?page_id=2
look around for the designs and the way they set it up and go off that

Dec 2 2011 9:35PM

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stevets

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Monkatizer - seems like you know something about this stuff. too bad you cant offer up what you know without being such a dick.

Dec 2 2011 9:49PM

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monkatizer

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stop calling me out n00b. i offered him help that took me time to type with the intention of helping him, he proceeded to ignore my help and act as if i hadn't even said anything. at that point, yes i get mad and may come off as a dick but that's because i care enough to want him to not mess it up.

Dec 2 2011 10:02PM

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stevets

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your first words were....... if you had to make this thread, i doubt your winch will work and in your second you call this bro asking for help an idiot.

just sayin

Dec 2 2011 10:31PM

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Electric. And thank you stevets and the other guy who posted the .gif

I've checked out boodog and their pictures all have no motor showing, its pretty much 25 pictures of the same thing or at least thats all I could find. And for the nameplate thing, the problem is these 2 motors don't have any.. Hahah kind of a fail, but they were free.

Dec 3 2011 2:13AM

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loganimlach

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whoa bro, in my defense my point was that they're more expensive to maintain/operate (batteries, generator, etc). and as for the low end comment, i have no problem whatsoever being proven wrong and encouraged him with his project. no need to take it to the next level embedding gifs and shit.

Dec 3 2011 1:02PM

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im just playin around man, not hatin

Dec 3 2011 2:30PM

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I did a little research on this. You're right that they would be the way to go and I found some cheap on craigslist. Car batteries are not impossible, just extremely unethical because of the way that they drain really quickly once they lose a bit of power.

Dec 3 2011 4:28PM

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'Nother thing you will have to take into consideration which you might not have thought of is a speed controller, as running a 5-10hp electric motor as constant on or off isn't probably going to be very gentle on you.

You are also going to need an inverter if you're using something like a washing machine motor or whatever since those run off AC (ALternating current, I assume you know some of this through your uncle) and batteries are inherently DC.

What you might have success in is using a setup for something like an RC helicopter (Plenty of experience here, PM if you want some more info+Links) You can usually find something like a 7hp electric brushless motor, a speed controller and batteries made for each other. These things are made to fly hard as fuck and will easily put up with pulling you along if you gear them right. Batteries probaby last about 4-6 mins for hard flying-not too sure how this would translate to winch runs.

Good luck though, would be prety sick to have yourself an electric winch. Probably wouldn't piss off neighbours as much as a gas motor. And to electric motors having less low end than Gasmotors, electric motors actually have the most tourque when they aren't moving.

Dec 4 2011 5:48PM

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Thank you for the advice. The motor I have is a DC motor, but like I said it has no markings on it. Yesterday I went to my grandpa's house and we ran some tests. putting 12 volts to this motor should give us about 20 mph. There is the problem with the hard start, but I'll be getting a controller. Thats where the issue of the lack of markings comes in. What info do I need to buy a controller? And The batteries have been covered already. It just so happens there was a guy selling 2 almost brand new deep-cycle batteries on craigslist. He wanted $50 a peice (way less than they're worth) but I got them both for $80. Just out of curiosity, though, how much would an RC set up cost? With the motor, controller and batteries?

Dec 4 2011 7:47PM

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Good stuff on getting it sorted out, out of interest do you know the capacity on the batteries you got?
For speed controllers the only things you need to worry about are how much voltage you are putting though them (You seemed to have ascertained 12, so get a controller rated for such) and how many amps the motor is going to pull-this is where it might get tricky.

Since the motor will pull a certain amount of amps when it's under load (Ie. when it's pulling you), that current will have to go through the controller, you're probably going to have to test this yourself, but I'm sure there's a way to work out the amp draw of an electric motor under a set load. This is the most important part however, as the motor doesn't care if it's pulling more amperage than the controller (Or the batteries mind you) can handle. You basically want to build the system around what you're expecting of the motor.

The Rc setup will basically....cost a shit ton. Batteries are like $500 a piece, motors maybe 300, not sure on the speed controllers. (Expensive hobby)

Good luck, sounds like you have it fairly sorted, get some videos up if you can, would be interested to see the design of this.

Dec 5 2011 1:16AM

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General_Ripper

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Wish I would have seen this thread earlier. I got a tread mill that I took apart thinking I was going to do something along similar lines. The idea was to just take the motor, put a spool on it, and use the already programmed controls to operate it. Then I would just use the plug and either rob electricity with and extension cord or run it off my car.

it seems like a cheap way to do it because people just toss tread mills out all the time because they are fat, but I really haven't had time to actually build it, so I don't know how well it would work.

Dec 5 2011 1:51AM

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Go for it! The car thing would be a good test but if it works check out the electric wheelchairs/scooters on craigslist. like I said I got some really nice batteries for cheap. And I'm sure the controls on the treadmill would make it super simple but I'd also worry about a slow start since they take a while to get up to speed

Dec 5 2011 4:46PM

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12 volts 27 Amp hours is the capacity I believe.

And by what I'm expecting out of the motor as in speed?

Also thats a bummer about the RC helis because that seems like a really simple way to do it.

I'll definitely be taking pictures and videos along the way

Dec 5 2011 4:51PM

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maxwell666

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mr.jaggis: tell me what problems i will have with an electric winch

everyone else: ....

mr.jaggis: fuck you guys i know what im doing!

Dec 5 2011 5:11PM

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Sound like some pretty nice battteries for 80 dollars all up. By "what you're expecting out of the motor" what I mean is how many amps it will draw max while it is under the "load" of pulling you along.

Dec 6 2011 5:20PM

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Do you know how I could find this?

Dec 6 2011 7:32PM

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Not sure, I guess you could try hooking the batteries directly up and putting the motor under some load, them measure the amp draw with a multimeter (10kgs of load, then multiply the amp draw to get your weight).
You could even get the setup done (Winch built), then drag along weights using just battery-motor connection and determine amp draw, then go from there. Probably want to get the amp draw, then say 10-20 percent more for the controller.

Dec 7 2011 7:43PM

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keenan.

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this made me laugh. But way to fend off the haters, can't wait to see how this turns out.

Dec 7 2011 9:23PM

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Alright I'll give one of these a try! Thanks again for all the help

Dec 7 2011 11:19PM

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No worries, happy to help.

Dec 8 2011 1:30AM

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i see no reason why this wouldn't be possible. as stated before, electric motors do great at low rpms. for example, the tesla roadster (284 HP electric motor) and the porsche 911 carrera s (400 HP boxer 6 cyl) have similar 0-60 times. for full disclosure, the roadster is 300 pounds lighter (~2700 lbs vs. ~3000 lbs), but also has a higher drag coefficient (.32 vs. .29).

i'd say go with it. i might have missed it, but you said you had some electric motors available to use? any chance you could post the specs on them?

Dec 8 2011 4:10AM

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also, i realize that powering it is going to be a challenge. if i were you, i'd set something up in my yard and plug it in to start (you'll need a recitifier to run the motor if it's dc, but that shouldn't be too hard to figure out). once you get it doing what you want it to, then work on designing a battery system.

Dec 8 2011 4:13AM

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What is a recitifier? And I would give you the specs on the motor but there are none hahah. no markings anywhere on the thing inside or out.

Also just an update:

We tried to do a test with just a spool on a shaft extension right from the motor, but it was not powerful enough with 12 volts. However there was a ton of friction because the rope would touch the motor and a very ghetto makeshift pillowblock type thing and that could have been a big part of the problem. But then we decided to try put 24 volts on it and the rope snapped! It was crazy. So right now we're working on a controller and throttle but its looking like gas would be the way to go. We're going to keep trying though because we still might be able to do it (with gearing amongst other things) and so far we have done it for extremely cheap considering the materials we need. The bummer about the electric motor is that you can't just go off of one variable like a gas motor. Horsepower is not the most important thing on electric, but it seems to be a big factor on gas motors.

Dec 8 2011 5:30PM

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Supergyro

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Deise

Dec 8 2011 5:40PM

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theabortionator

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Blah blah shut up noob

Dec 8 2011 5:46PM

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Supergyro

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Fuck mobile return button. Anyways, you need a diesel-electric train lower end. Torque your arms off. :)

Dec 8 2011 5:50PM

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theabortionator

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this

Dec 8 2011 5:55PM

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KrazyistKarl

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so much misinformation in this thread.
Op im glad you stuck with electric, but not having markings is going to be a bit of a problem. If you are getting a speed controller id just buy a new motor and match them up. BUT really hard starts arent that bad on DC motors, id maybe just add a section of bungee to the handle to absorb some of the shock of startup. The deep cycle batteries should work great and last long (many charge cycles) wire them parallel and you'll be set, running 12v and double the amperage of one battery. It should run quite a while seeing as the motor will only run for the few seconds under heavy load while you are getting pulled then shut off. The main issue you will run into is a self starting self stopping mechanism (also a problem that iv run into in my planning) No clutch or transmission shouldn't be needed, but iv you decide to go that route a CVT would be a cheap and reliable system.

A car starter like what your grandpa used might not be such a bad rout to go with, high amperage and high tourgue and not meant to run for long. And they also engage and disengage with a solenoid. All you would need to do is get a machinist to make a gear that matches the starter gear and mate it to a pulley. you'd still need a start and stop mechanism, but when it starts the started would push its gear into the pulley, spin then disengage when the rope hits a stop mechanism

Dec 8 2011 9:19PM

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bgrehan

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Awesome idea. make sure to post a build log.

plus electric is quieter so less chance of getting busted by the po...

Dec 8 2011 9:22PM

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Crazy Fool

Good idea, you can do this or you can just make sure you are far enough away from the winch so that when you release the rope it has enough room for it to shutdown and not get fucked up by the winch

Dec 8 2011 9:49PM

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Crazy Fool

a rectifier converts AC to DC. this would allow you to run your motor from a plug at your house. anything that is responsible for charging a battery from your wall (computer, phone, etc.) will have a rectifier in it. a DC power supply contains a rectifier and has the ability to control its power output.

http://www.amazon.com/MASTECH-HY1803D-VARIABLE-POWER-SUPPLY/dp/B000CSQK5E

i doubt this has the capacity you're looking for, but something like it would be ideal for testing your electric motor.

Dec 9 2011 5:13AM

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-Otto-

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You're right, there's so much bullshit in this thread... People shouldn't be giving other people advice when they don't have any knowledge on this subject at all.

Dec 9 2011 6:43AM

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Don't electric motors not coast? so once the power is cut the shaft doesnt spin anymore? Please correct me if I'm wrong

Dec 10 2011 12:32PM

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So you think this would be good for testing purposes? or for the actual winch? It seems like it would make it much more complicated because then you need to find an outlet.

Dec 10 2011 12:35PM

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the more i think about it, it might be better just to get a controller and start testing with your batteries. you said 12V would pull you at approx 20 mph? does this mean you already have your spool designed?

the reason i was leaning toward a power supply was that it gives you amazing control over the operation of a DC motor. with DC motors, your angular velocity (w) is proportional to the voltage (V) applied and your torque (t) is proportional to the current (A) applied. (side note: multiplying t*w=power output and V*A=power input. power out divided by power in gives you the efficiency of the motor.) a power supply like this allows you to control both voltage and amperage. this will allow you to slowly apply more power to get a feel for the motor without causing your rope to break, or spinning the motor up to speed too quickly, etc. it would also tell you definitively if the motor was powerful enough to use in the applications that you're looking for.

all in all, this would require a DC power supply that was capable of supplying enough power to pull you on your skis. the one i linked you to tops out at 54W of power (18V*3A=54W), which seems pretty low to me. i took a look around for some stronger power supplies (~1kW+), and either the prices aren't listed or they're at least $4000. probably not worth the investment.

as far as taking steps forward, i would design a simple spool and find a voltage controller. (if you're finding that the voltage available isn't enough to reach the speed you're looking for, a spool of larger diameter would shift the power toward running a lower voltage with a higher current. this relationship also works in the opposite direction. think about the diameter in relationship to the angular velocity of the motor shaft.) a voltage controller will allow you to throttle up your speed without ripping your arms off. this will cause the current to be decided by how much torque is required by the load on the motor (a skier holding the rope).

**VERY IMPORTANT!! you might find yourself running some high currents with this project. make damn sure that all of your components are capable of handling this current. not only is this a fire hazard, but high voltage isn't what kills people; high amperage is.** you said your grandpa's an EE? make sure to keep him informed with what you're working on. he should be able to help keep the project in the realm of safety.

you have two 12V deep-cycle batteries, right? take one of them, hook it up to your motor with a voltage controller and start slowly to do very simple processes (pulling a sled without anything in it, pulling a sled with a little weight in it, etc.). eventually you'll work your way up to pulling a skier.

Dec 10 2011 3:38PM

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Holy wall of text. I'll try to respond to a lot of this info but sorry if I dont.

The spool hasn't been designed yet but we have some ideas.

Would you suggest trying to find the output and input? and would that information make is easier to find a more suitable controller?

We were planning on getting a throttle as well as a controller but we aren't sure yet what we're doing for that.

And I'll make sure to have my grandpa check everything out. So far we have a really sketchy testing set up because we don't want to spend a ton more if it wont work, but for testing purposes it works fine. Right now we just need a controller to finish up the testing though and if it works we continue. If it doesnt, we build gas powered.

Thank you for all the input

Dec 12 2011 5:26PM

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measuring motor output isn't really necessary or useful. motor efficiency is not important at this stage, so it wouldn't be important to measure the output. you'll know if the output is adequate if it does what you want it to do.

the power input to the motor (voltage and current) would be useful to monitor every now and then since it would give you an idea how long your batteries are going to last. this can be done using a multimeter.

i'm pretty much at the end of my knowledge on the subject. finding the right control circuit for the motor is going to be a challenge, but not impossible. i know there are some issues with voltage kickbacks from inductive loads (motor in this case), and it'll be important to make sure it doesn't fry your controller. the technology for this definitely exists. there are tons of situations where a battery is driving an electric motor. these could be a great reference when trying to find the right controller for your set-up.

what's your testing set-up like right now? what kind of wires are you using to connect everything?

Dec 13 2011 9:07PM

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I'll take a picture soon but yesterday all our snow melted so we tested with a skateboard going up a mellow hill. Its the motor mounted on a milk crate (only for testing obviously) that has a shaft extension with a spool mounted on it. The crate is strapped around a tree to keep it from flying around and the batteries are in a box right next to the tree close enough that the wires coming from the motor can connect to the batteries.

Dec 13 2011 11:03PM

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DIX~

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.. Did it work?

Dec 14 2011 2:46AM

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