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Jeep advice

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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
Just picked up a jeep for 5,500. Came with no hard top and stock tires. I would rather buy bigger tires before a hard top but i would like a hard top for the winter. Not sure if ill be able to scrape up the money for both before winter next year (I'm 16), so i was wondering if I would be fine with just a soft top for at least part of winter.
May 28 2011 11:24PM
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JakeAssBeatClap
Posts: 6673 - Karma: 2,535
get the hard top first don't be a tool and get bigger tires.. plus bigger tires are worse for snow
/thread
May 28 2011 11:31PM
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Gondaire
Posts: 238 - Karma: 13
Fyi, soft top jeeps get realllllllllly cold in the winter. No hard surface to keep the heat in. Go with hard top then tires
May 28 2011 11:32PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
Bigger tires arnt worse for snow, more surface area on the ground gives you more traction. And don't be a tool? He's only a tool if he puts a bunch of top of the line offroading shit on it and never takes it in the woods.
May 28 2011 11:34PM
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JakeAssBeatClap
Posts: 6673 - Karma: 2,535
more surface area = more opportunity to slide around. bigger base the faster you slide. less surface area = more pressure on the ground
May 28 2011 11:36PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
I wouldn't consider bigger tires toolish by any means. I'm not talking about a 4" lift kit and then huge tires on top of it. Rather, im just looking for something to beef it up a little bit so people dont think its a girl jeep and so i can hit the trails when i want to
May 28 2011 11:44PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
What? You don't see any of the trucks that go snow wheeling with small, skinny tires do you? All the trucks i go with, including mine, all have wide and tall tires and they would stomp all over antrucknwith skinny small tires. Mote surface area is more holding power, less surface area is less holding power, also know as traction.
May 28 2011 11:58PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
Look into keys and spacers for your jeep. You could fit 35s, but 33s will be good. With 35s you may need to regear, which can be complicated and sometimes costly. Keys and spacers are like $130 and will give anywhere from 2 to possibly 3 inches of lift
May 29 2011 12:01AM
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skiblandford
Posts: 1503 - Karma: 2
i heard that cold tops suck in the winter. they dont retain heat what so ever no insulation. def go for the hard top first
May 29 2011 12:07AM
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Co2x2
Posts: 58 - Karma: 10
there is a difference between snow wheeling and driving on hard pack on the road. when snow wheeling you run about 2 psi and usually large tires, the idea is to float on top of the snow. when driving on the road a narrower tire cuts through the hard pack better and puts more pressure on the road. that being said ive run 35x12.50x15s for 3 years in colorado and had no problem its more important to be a good winter driver than what kinda tires you have. i have also run a soft top for those three years, its not bad but be aware that when it gets really cold the plastic is brittle and cracks easily.

if you have any other questions about your jeep feel free to ask them here or message me, im not claiming to know everything about jeeps but i have been in your position (16 with a jeep) and have a fair amount of knowledge to share. also check out jeepforum its a good website for new jeep owners, pirate4x4 is also good but its alot more hardcore and they dont take kindly to dumb/newb questions
May 29 2011 2:56AM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
A tire will not cut through hardpack on a road, it will roll over it, it's a wheel not a square. With my experience, I have had much better luck with my big tires in all snow conditions, including on the road, then I did when I had my stock tires.
May 29 2011 9:39AM
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Billek
Posts: 5665 - Karma: 98
You just don't get it, and I'm not gonna waste my time explaining it to you.
May 29 2011 10:02AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
You really don't understand
May 29 2011 10:10AM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
What is there to not understand? In my experience, my larger tires have been 10 times better than my stock ones
May 29 2011 10:15AM
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Furrer92
Posts: 784 - Karma: 341
Think amount of weight over smaller surface area.

Snowshoes = Big = Stay on top of the snow

Shoes = small = sink
May 29 2011 10:29AM
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.jersey
Posts: 1925 - Karma: 9
If your tires suck then i'd rather go for the tires first. If you have bad tires then it wont matter if you dont have a hard top because you won't be able to drive in the snow.
May 29 2011 10:32AM
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Co2x2
Posts: 58 - Karma: 10
i know what your saying but are you relating this to tires as in smaller ones are better for the road? this analogy only works well for snow wheeling when one would be driving in feet of snow and need to stay on top
May 29 2011 2:06PM
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Co2x2
Posts: 58 - Karma: 10
it not just about size, chances are your "larger" tires also have nicer tread and arent worn out compared to the stock ones
May 29 2011 2:07PM
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thedeathstar
Posts: 92 - Karma: 19
Torsion Keys on a Jeep? I don't even...

All jeeps pre 2004 (cherokee, grand cherokee, wrangler) were either coil or leaf sprung on solid axles. No IFS until the liberty was born. (stupid, stupid jeep move IMO)


OP! Addressing your original post:

I spent many cold winter mornings in my mom's 2000 wrangler sport with the 4.0 and a soft top. That jeep heated up within a few miles and it got HOT. While you're driving it's easy to get too hot even with the soft top. Don't waste your money on a hard top in my opinion, the fiberglass/glass combo does not provide too much more heat retention, it will only prevent it from cooling down faster and provide you with a rear window wiper and washer and a bit more security.


As for tires, a good tire to look at is the goodyear duratrac - very awesome in the snow, aggressive styling and very quiet on the road. If you have a serious inquiry about sizes feel free to PM me but I am not joining the tire size debate.

Happy Jeeping



May 29 2011 4:22PM
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Co2x2
Posts: 58 - Karma: 10
like you said jeeps dont have torsion keys, also like you said soft tops are fine like i said the only bad thing is that they are brittle and easy to tear when its cold, goodyear makes great tires i have their mud terrains and love them
May 30 2011 5:05AM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
I thought the newer wranglers had IFS, guess not. I don't drive a jeep so I wasn't positive, even with straight axles and leafs it is cheap to lift it up a few inches though, or if it's coils just add some spacers.
May 30 2011 8:50AM
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pbandj
Posts: 5610 - Karma: 28
serious;y just shut the fuck up and gtfo, you've already embarrassed yourself not realizing that for on road snow conditions skinnier tires work better.
May 30 2011 8:57AM
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skia4life89
Posts: 2400 - Karma: 172
haha are you serious? bigger tires with the right tread are way better in snow than most stock tires. That is a retarded comment.
May 30 2011 9:05AM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
Thank you
May 30 2011 9:06AM
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Furrer92
Posts: 784 - Karma: 341
Yes, when there is snow on the road skinnier tires would benefit you because its easier for them to push through the snow and get contact with the asphalt.
May 30 2011 9:53AM
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skia4life89
Posts: 2400 - Karma: 172
would you like to explain to me then why my brother who has 33x12.50's16 on his explorer and my friend who has 325x60x20 on his truck rarely had to use 4 wheel drive because of the tires on them?

sure if you have a redic mud terrain on a big tire i can see your argument. But if you get a good a/t tire such as the hankook dyanpro atm, then there are no problems.
May 30 2011 10:03AM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
A new all-terrain aftermarket tire will be better in the snow than an old stock all-season.  No matter what size the new tires are. 

But a skinny winter-tread tire is better than a great big A/T tire in the snow.  Look at dirt rally tires and snow rally tires.  Snow rally tires are like pizza cutters.


If your tires are shit, get tires and a warm jacket.  If your tires will last you the winter, get a hard top.



May 30 2011 11:25AM
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derpina
Posts: 2186 - Karma: 55
No. Look up any snow tire, from any brand, for any vehicle. All snow tires are SKINNY.

I drive a 4x4 XTerra and use to off-road all the time (before I bought my dirtbike). DEFINITELY had two different pairs of tires. That thing was already like an elephant on ice skates, I woulda been screwed with the wide tires on snow.

More surface area = your weight is distributed over a larger area. You can't sink in as much, so you stay on top of the snow and slip around.

For someone from CO, I'm disappointed.
May 30 2011 11:59AM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324

im speaking from my experience. I had stock, average tires on my toyota until late december. It was fine in the snow, but i got 33 inch mickey tompsons and the difference was incredible. My larger tires worked 10 times better in snow than the smaller ones, and the smaller ones were relatively new. And getting larger tires doesnt necesarily mean wider, you can get taller ones without the width, and taller is better

May 30 2011 6:25PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
Is it possible that you saw the improvement simply as a result of your winter driving skills improving?
May 30 2011 6:31PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
probably not. get taller tires, if you have ever ridden a 29er bike vs. a 26 or 24 inch bike you will see why. thats if you want to offroad and do that kinda thing
May 30 2011 6:34PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 372
as far as tires go, the taller tires wont really effect snow driving, but width will.

my summer tires are 33x12.5x16

my winter tires are 31x8x16

the winter tires are mucchhhhh better in the snow than the summer tires
May 30 2011 6:41PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
I will be purchasing mudders eventually regardless of winter driving capability so that's not really a concern, but it is true that a skinnier tire will most definitely perform better on hard pack. To use a barely relevant analogy but one that we can relate to, don't bring pow skis on groomers. sure it'll work but it just makes it a hell of a lot more difficult.
May 30 2011 6:48PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 372
getting "mudders" for a stock jeep is basically a waste of time.

get the hard top so that its more functional, and either way big tires are expensive. real expensive.
May 30 2011 6:52PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
Hard top is definitely coming first, but could you please elaborate on the topic of mudders being a waste of time for a stock jeep

May 30 2011 6:56PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 372
stock, im not sure what size tire you can fit on a stock jeep what 32" maybe? thats not gonna make your jeep a wheelin rig.

lockers will make your rig more functional for less money. wheel what ya got now, learn how to make it work and you'll be better off in the long run.

also, aggresively lugged tires wear out FAST, a buddy of mine wore out a set of 44" boggers in a week
May 30 2011 7:06PM
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.spaghetticat.
Posts: 4283 - Karma: 890
My Sister has a Jeep Liberty and Its my favorite car I have ever been in its so sick
my family has the OG Jeep Wrangler
http://www.jeephorizons.com/news/images/06_tj/06tj_a.jpg
May 30 2011 7:16PM
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.spaghetticat.
Posts: 4283 - Karma: 890
http://www.jeephorizons.com/news/images/06_tj/06tj_a.jpg
how do u add pics through URL? haha
May 30 2011 7:16PM
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derpina
Posts: 2186 - Karma: 55
this this this this. Also, aggressive treads are loud as shit. If you plan on having a good convo while driving or listening to music forget about it.

Here in Summit if guys are moderate/aggressive 4x4er's a lot of the time they have two rigs... and more often than not the big reason for that is the tires. Some go as far as putting their off-roading rig on a trailer and pulling it to the trails.

May 30 2011 7:17PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
I have something along the lines of this
Click for larger image
Looking for something along the lines of this
Click for larger image
May 30 2011 7:37PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
Here's a better image of current tire size
Click for larger image
I would just go take pics of my jeep but my parents think im doing hw
May 30 2011 7:44PM
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Co2x2
Posts: 58 - Karma: 10
dont even waste your time this thread went to shit quick
May 30 2011 11:06PM
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Scott0_robot0
Posts: 3291 - Karma: 212
get the hardtop man, its more worth it then just get some tires for winter. the only way its a "girl" jeep is if they have all those gay ass girl stickers on the back like "Jeeps are for girls" or some shit. think about function before looks.
May 30 2011 11:14PM
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ckskier
Posts: 109 - Karma: 30
you need a lift with 35's and some fender flares. fuck the hard top
May 30 2011 11:52PM
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Ski_the_east01
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 2,304
Youre gonna want the hardtop trust me...for the summer just get a bikini/wind jammer/ tonneau cover set up best top sells them in a combo set for pretty cheap (theres also a few other companies that are good)

wide tires are NOT good in the snow...why do you think you see guys with lift kits taking off their 35x12.5 tires and throwing on skinnys in the winter?? Dont ever listen to COskier, he's proven time and time again that is one of the least informed little kids on this website

You can fit 32's comfortably on a jeep, anything more than that and your going to need some serious trimming..if your only looking for a rig that will only be used off road sparingly go for a set of 2-3" coil spacers, new shocks, and 32-33" tires

Heres my rig

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

Click for larger image
May 31 2011 9:14AM
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wazzucrewskier
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 151
Not that its even needed, but this guy is absolutely wrong.  The only reason you saw an increase in traction was your tires more than likely had a deeper tread pattern.  If you had the same tire in a narrower width you would get even better traction.

Wide snow tires are a terrible idea.  Think of cleats.  They work because there is 1/4 of the surface area touching the ground so they grip better.  Wide tires would be like using running shoes on the soccer/football field or watever, you are going to slide around like an idiot.

And COskier543, mind letting me know why they use these pizza cutter width snow tires to race on, but wide tires on tarmac? 


May 31 2011 10:50AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
I'll just leave this here...


Given the obvious preference for wide rubber over skinny in racing and performance circles, it's easy to assume that wide tires are better in all conditions than their svelte cousins. The truth, however, is a bit more complicated than just putting as much tire on the road as possible.

  1. Pressure and Contact

    • There are two ways to get traction (a function of friction) on any surface: increase the contact area or increase the pressure per square inch. Skinny tires must carry the same amount of weight as fat tires, but must do so with far less contact with the road. This increases the force in pounds per square inch on the tire tread, theoretically allowing the thinner tire to "cut" into the road surface. You could compare the pressure effects of fat tires to skinny to (respectively) a baseball bat and a samurai sword.

    Dry Traction

    • In completely dry conditions, wider and fatter is always better for traction. A dry road and dry tires allow every inch of rubber to grab the road with no interference, so traction increase/decrease is almost linear with tire size. The only downside to larger tires on dry roads is that they can increase steering effort in low-speed conditions. Traction is traction, whether it's rolling forward or swiveling on an axis.

    Wet Conditions

    • Generally speaking, wider tires will perform better in wet conditions than skinny tires, but it depends on the tread pattern. Wide tires can easily trap water underneath while rolling, making efficient water removal channels (called "sipes") a priority for design. Narrow tires can get away with having fewer sipes because they're not as inclined to trap water underneath and because their higher contact pressure tends to "squish" water out of the way.

    Snow Safety

    • The long-held belief that narrow tires are better in snow and ice is generally true. One side effect of high contact pressure is heat, which can, in many cases, squeeze any snow beneath back into its liquid state. When combined with a sipes designed to carry that melted ice and snow away, the end result is a tire that performs far better in winter conditions than wide summer rubber. Wide tires tend to float over the top of ice and snow rather than digging in.




May 31 2011 1:26PM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2800 - Karma: 394
This over and over.

I have had my jeep for 5 winters in Burlington Vermont and have never owned a hard top. Soft year round. Some times i wish i had a hard top but then you have to store it for the summer months.

Also the good thing about having a soft top all winter, you will be the first one with it off in the spring. I try to get to the mtn once every spring with the top down.
May 31 2011 1:32PM
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Ski_the_east01
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 2,304
The soft top will not last if you run it year round in the northeast..the combination of sun/rain/snow/ice/salt will destroy the thread that holds the soft top fabric together and it is not easy to replace because the fabric is so tough

ive owned a bunch of wranglers and blown through a few soft tops because the stitching can't handle year round abuse...only a few places will do restitching for you too and it is pretty damn expensive - i had my two rear windows re-stitched last summer and it was $80 a piece
May 31 2011 1:41PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324

can you please give me some examples on how i have proven time and time again that i am the least informed "little" kids on this website? in this thread, i have just spoken from my personal experience, which i think is better than what the internet states. my truck performed better with wider tires in snow, other trucks may not.

May 31 2011 3:04PM
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Ski_the_east01
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 2,304
I'm not going back through thread to find your retarded responses.

Your name sticks out to me in every thread because 90% of what you say is completely and utterly wrong but you adamantly defend yourself

Fact: Your truck does not perform better with wider tires in the snow, the only place it performs better in the snow with wide tires is off road when you deflate the shit out of them so you don't fall through

This is what it is like arguing with you:


May 31 2011 3:14PM
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