Member of the Month

PartyBullshiit
March, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Maturity test: religion in space

profile picture
pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
With all the fun talk about finding planets in habitable zones, people training for missions to mars, moon colonies, nasa getting 1 last shuttle mission, Russian space hotels ... whatever else you care to throw in there.

it get's me thinking

does religion belong in space? I can't imagine any reason why religious texts/beliefs would have even considered the possibility of man leaving the planet on his own accord. So, although I've not read every good-book out there, my assumption is that religion as we know it has been meant to remain earth bound.

I can see how religious folks may want to apply their beliefs throughout the universe, but is that really appropriate? If every religion has been written in the context of man on earth, on what grounds would a religion have to extend their message beyond that context?

Will there be churches in LEO on the moon or on Mars?
On a deep space exploration craft?
Would religions attempt to convert alien life?

Finally, let's assume religions cannot leave earth-- perhaps if you leave earth, you've forsaken God's gift, and therefore you don't get to go to heaven; make up whatever reason, it's not that important.

Would you choose to give up your religion, or space travel?
Oct 2 2010 10:45AM
0 0
profile picture
ch@se
Posts: 790 - Karma: 71
Click for larger image
Oct 2 2010 10:51AM
0 0
profile picture
dbstar
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 20
What? By the time we live on mars or fly to another habitable planet the evidence against the existence of god will be so overwhelming to render only the most retarded and simple minded people as "believers".
Oct 2 2010 10:52AM
0 0
profile picture
yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
if religions can twist words and ideals with originally peaceful meaning to something which promotes hatred and killing people on the regular, they will definitely be extended into space.
Oct 2 2010 10:54AM
0 0
profile picture
ch@se
Posts: 790 - Karma: 71
But seriously,

That's a very interesting proposition. I think religion would probably just become a form of fictional literature for aliens. Probably stemming into a low-budget series on SyFy.

Except for Scientology. That shits legit.
Oct 2 2010 10:55AM
0 0
profile picture
Uncle.Badness
Posts: 2545 - Karma: 55
Prove that God doesn't exist, that's right you can't. Thus religion will be taken to space whether we like it or not. By the way I don't identify myself under any religious title but if I had to it would probably be agnostic.
Oct 2 2010 10:57AM
0 0
profile picture
afterbang_me
Posts: 385 - Karma: 152
of course they will
Oct 2 2010 10:57AM
0 0
profile picture
dbstar
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 20
Well if you actually read my post you would have seen that I said "by the time", implying that we aren't there yet. By the time we send people off into space for prolonged periods of time, we will then have irrefutable evidence. For most rational people we already do.
Oct 2 2010 11:03AM
0 0
profile picture
TheDude
Posts: 2058 - Karma: 117

threads for when im not hungover

Oct 2 2010 11:08AM
0 0
profile picture
Been.stick
Posts: 436 - Karma: 491
are you kidding, religion is the only way dumb fucks.
Oct 2 2010 11:10AM
0 0
profile picture
JustDidIt
Posts: 2194 - Karma: 160
this.
Oct 2 2010 11:11AM
0 0
profile picture
fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
"god created the heavens and the earth"


they didn't assume people would leave the earth, but they did cover the question of whats out there and how it got there. God put it there.

as for deep space exploration, it does not go hand in hand with religion. If it did, then why are we spending money to send probes out farther than anything else has ever traveled? Why do that when we could just claim that god put it there. No need to go and explore.

There are a lot of questions to be asked about the universe, but god's role/religions involvement in it is temperamental to scientific progress.

Fun fact, one of the first things buzz aldrin did after landing on the moon was give himself communion. He also wanted to be the first man on the moon because of his faith, and probably would have made the first words on the moon something about God. Fortunately, neil got out first, and left his own beliefs out of it.
Oct 2 2010 11:16AM
0 0
profile picture
thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
Oh look, its this thread again.
Oct 2 2010 11:38AM
0 0
profile picture
Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I suggest you read the Hyperion books, one of the best sci-fi books out there and they really dwelve into the religious aspects withinh the boundaries of our universe.
Oct 2 2010 11:46AM
0 0
profile picture
Hoppy
Posts: 685 - Karma: 95
Space is Christian
Oct 2 2010 11:47AM
0 0
profile picture
yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
why does that matter in the slightest?
Oct 2 2010 11:48AM
0 0
profile picture
tommyp1ckles
Posts: 1337 - Karma: 55
[/IMG]http://quatchwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/SpacePope.png[IMG]
we're gonna have a space pope.
Oct 2 2010 11:52AM
0 0
profile picture
fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
just pointing it out.

and i don't think it would have been a great idea to set foot on the moon and declare "god, the good christian god, put only an american here!"
Oct 2 2010 11:57AM
0 0
profile picture
sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
so true.
Oct 2 2010 12:05PM
0 0
profile picture
yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
ill rephrase my question, how exactly does that affect your life in the slightest? athiests and agnostics tend to get all worked up over other peoples beliefs, which is ironically one of the biggest problems with religion in the first place. who the fuck cares what the first words said on the moon are? theres much larger problems with religion than what aldrin personally practices. you hating on someone elses beliefs is a bigger problem then whatever he the man chooses to do and not to do. to each their own i suppose, but if you get fired up over something like that man your life must suck.
Oct 2 2010 12:17PM
0 0
profile picture
fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
ohhh ok. No i don't mind religion. I'm not really sure where i fall on the religious scale yet, but there's a time and place for religion. And when you're standing on the moon, after getting there through the hardwork of thousands of people across the planet and of many religious backgrounds, i don't think it would be appropriate, just as a matter of respect. I don't mind that he did his communion and practiced his beliefs up there. I think its good that he realized the situation and had the faith to do what he wanted. Just a matter of respect is all.

(and i'm not having a double standard, i don't think someone landing on the moon should declare "there is no god! "or fuck the soviets or anything like that either)
Oct 2 2010 12:26PM
0 0
profile picture
SCOO-WOOP
Posts: 1264 - Karma: 244
Your assumption that all people who believe in God are simple minded and retarded is quite retarded in itself. While yes, science has proven many things that we used to consider to be acts of god, there is still so much that is unproven by science nor religion that we'll never really know if there's a god or not. As for me? I think that compulsory religion is stupid. I was born and raised in a devout catholic family, but they chose to be devout catholics and have let me choose my own path. Just because people believe in a higher being doesn't make them retarded. The only retarded people that come out of religion are the fanatics. Such as we see all over the news today. But most people simply use religion as a moral compass. I still believe in a God yet at the same time believe in all the wonders that science has and has to offer us.
Oct 2 2010 12:33PM
0 0
profile picture
Bepo
Posts: 8195 - Karma: 17
No matter what new evidence comes out suggesting that there is no god the church will just twist its definition of "god" to fit.
Oct 2 2010 12:42PM
0 0
profile picture
SCOO-WOOP
Posts: 1264 - Karma: 244
Which is why the church sucks ass.
But there still can be a god.
We have no hard evidence that states he doesn't exist.
Oct 2 2010 12:43PM
0 0
profile picture
freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,290
this

Thats a good point. I am sure religion will be brought into space but die hard believers to seek salvation. But, there is too many contradictions between what the bible says and whats really out there on a scientific point of view. The books were written some 2000 years ago and some up to 3000 year ago, everyone believed that the earth was flat and at the center of the universe ( and many religious people still believe the universe revolves around them) , and interpreted the bible in that manner. The concept of the universe was unknown to them. So, the bible was done by human for human of earth, it does not apply to the rest of the universe. Unless, of course, a new interpretation is accepted by religious officials to include extra terrestrial beings.

 The innability of the Church and religions to change, not only make them out of date in our times, but invalid to outer space. The reason why religion does not want to change is because it will cast doubt...something forbidden by religion (questioning God and his creations is a deadly sin). So its a tight line, change interpretation to justify the conversion will kill religion on earth, or leave extra terrestrials out of religion.

my 2 cents
Oct 2 2010 12:48PM
0 0
profile picture
yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
exactly. theres no way millions of practicioners and thousands of religious leaders are just one day going to drop these traditions. maybe if we're talking waaaaay down the line.
Oct 2 2010 12:53PM
0 0
profile picture
thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
Not a reason to believe in a God. lrn2 logic.
Oct 2 2010 1:06PM
0 0
profile picture
Scrambles
Posts: 2270 - Karma: 63
Atheism is pretty much like a religion in the sense that they don't listen/tolerate anybody but the people with the same beliefs. You guys cause just as much shit storms as religious people
Oct 2 2010 1:09PM
0 0
profile picture
alpacarider
Posts: 290 - Karma: 42
Having a church isn't necessary for a religion to exist. you can carry on worshiping your god without any books or preachers cramming ideas in your head if you so choose. Sure there will be people trying to convert aliens to their religion if we even survive to find aliens, just look at the extremes people go to now to convert people and with possible open minds to religion aliens would be easy targets
Oct 2 2010 1:13PM
0 0
profile picture
thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
If someone were to present me with a logical, well thought out, rational argument for believing in a supernatural being i would be glad to listen... Unofrtunately, such an argument is impossible to come up with, seeing as there is no fucking god and you should all just get over it you dumb cunts.
Oct 2 2010 1:20PM
0 0
profile picture
zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350

Religion in general has caused many problems in my life. And I love deep space. I think I found my new home!

Oct 2 2010 1:22PM
0 0
profile picture
SteezyasPie
Posts: 1160 - Karma: 15
and many people still believe the universe revolves around them

Fixed. Atheists/agnostics and religious people are all selfish/egotistic; it doesn't favor either group.
Oct 2 2010 1:33PM
0 0
profile picture
alpacarider
Posts: 290 - Karma: 42
right. just because yooure religious doesnt mean youre a good person and just because youre atheist doesnt mean youre bad (from a religious point of view)
Oct 2 2010 1:39PM
0 0
profile picture
Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,844
excuse me but there is absolutely no 'evidence' (lol) AGAINST the existence of god. Theres a lot more evidence FOR the existence of god.

for example;
how did the world/space etc. come to be?
the 'big bang' you might say?? but what caused that??
nothing can come to be in motion without being set in motion by something else, so there must be something to defy that law.. right? aka GOD
its an argument for a Deistic God, (not theistic/personal) but its God alright
Oct 2 2010 1:50PM
0 0
profile picture
alpacarider
Posts: 290 - Karma: 42
there are explanations for how the big bang could occur on its on they are just theories but so are 90% of the things people believe whether its god or the big bang there are evidence for each you just have to choose what you believe
Oct 2 2010 1:52PM
0 0
profile picture
thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
You really aren't too smart are you?

What caused God to be? If you say God existed forever, why can't the universe be the same? Not knowing the answer to a question does not mean the answer must be God.
Oct 2 2010 2:01PM
0 0
profile picture
pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
Here's another point to consider, which i'm sure most of you are missing; boil down your current religious practice, and it'll go back to the pagan traditions.

If you believe in Jesus, you're a sun worshiper. Literally sun, not the figurative son it's been turned into. Dies on a cross, stays dead for three days, only to come back to life for eternal glory--the sun.

Almost all religions, astrology, basic 'spiritual' beliefs,etc. revolve around our relationship on earth with the observable heavens in the sky. The heavens as something non-accessible, and always contingent on our relation to them from the ground.

If you leave earth, you leave your reference point. There is no accommodation provided by any of the religions today to extend the beliefs beyond our earthly reference.

Stop debating whether something is more true than another just compare what the implications are of each belief.
Oct 2 2010 2:05PM
0 0
profile picture
pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
go stroke your monads-- and by yours i also mean mine.

Also, the 17th century called and wants it's debate back.
Oct 2 2010 2:08PM
0 0
profile picture
zerospinskier
Posts: 4867 - Karma: 350

I like you

Oct 2 2010 2:12PM
0 0
profile picture
Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
thank you.
Oct 2 2010 2:20PM
0 0
profile picture
a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9210 - Karma: 5,357
actually it might work the other way around, they'll try and convert us!
Oct 2 2010 2:25PM
0 0
profile picture
Scrambles
Posts: 2270 - Karma: 63
both will attempt to convert the other resulting in war in which the most advanced race would win
Oct 2 2010 2:28PM
0 0
profile picture
hoodSlayer
Posts: 900 - Karma: 7
I don't understand why you would even make this into an issue. If people want to practice a religion let them. There is nothing wrong with believing in a power greater than yourself. Furthermore, at their core most faiths are about VALUES not rules and rituals. Is there something wrong with bringing good values into space?
Oct 2 2010 2:34PM
0 0
profile picture
MAPLE_SYRUP
Posts: 1910 - Karma: 68
The reason intelligent alien life forms have not visited earth is because of our beliefs and actions. All religion does is give a false sense of security and when we (or others) test our beliefs, we are led to war. Humans have been killing each other for thousands of years over religion, What external race would want that influence on their societies?
Oct 2 2010 2:45PM
0 0
profile picture
thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
protip: The bible qu'ran both explicitly promote hatred of other races/religions.
Oct 2 2010 3:07PM
0 0
profile picture
Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
"In Space, no one can hear you pray."
Oct 2 2010 3:11PM
0 0
profile picture
thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
pic related Click for larger image
Oct 2 2010 3:14PM
0 0
profile picture
dbstar
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 20
There is already a huge amount of evidence against the existence of God. When I refer to God, like most people I am referring to the Christian/Jew/Muslim God, like most people, and you have to keep in mind that this notion came about thousands of years ago. As many these teachings have systematically been proven to not be the cause (ie. evolution), and as times have changed leading to the necessary changing of these teachings... ie. womens suffrage, gay rights, contraception ect. the church has had to change what could be considered the "written word of god", which in itself seems to implicate the lack of any overseeing God. Most of those things you listed can be explained, although not completely, although science is getting there, without having to implicate some sort of higher being.

And, well the notion of God that is present in most religions today does point towards a "personal" God. Christianity, Islam, Judaism ect. all do. So to imply that there is simply some of sort creator who pushed the big bang into motion, but is not a personal God or any sort of theistic deity, in a sense isn't really a God. If God in a human sense does not have any connection to humans then what makes it God? If what led to the creation of everything was something that eventually could be pinned down and explained by science would you label that as "God".
Oct 2 2010 3:16PM
0 0
profile picture
MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
The problem is that we have no inkling towards what may be physically possible on another planet. The absurd on this planet may conform perfectly to their laws of physics. We would think it impossible to float through the air here on earth, however a more inept system of gravity may render it possible to float in such a way. Their arrangement of atoms could allow it to be possible to push through things that we wouldn't normally think possible, who knows you get the point.

It's all about context. If for some reason there is intelligent life and we took the slight chance that we could communicate with them, the context in which our stories from the bible not only would sound ridiculous but by no means would provide any moral code or system of values for them.

There is far too much speculation to come up with a solid answer. However I think that it would be highly unlikely they would accept religion or even begin to indoctrinate themselves with it. Nobody on earth ever has without the corresponding push of fear or force so why should people on a completely different planet?
Oct 2 2010 3:34PM
0 0
profile picture
hoodratz47
Posts: 11992 - Karma: 9,212
it could not hurt... if we meet aliens there not gonna convert.  what ever gets you through your life... but really SPACE IS FUCKING AWSOME!
Oct 2 2010 3:35PM
0 0
profile picture
Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,844
Well im only trying to defend the Deistic God b/c i dont know enough about the arguments for a theistic God {Read deep into John Locke - something i should do too}. But the definition of God is not a creator, but a completely OMNISCIENT and OMNIPOTENT being

And to try and defend all the things that are to be taken literally in Christianity would be insane (ex. that the priest transforms the bread into the ACTUAL body of Christ every Sunday is ridiculous). You can read about Kierkegaard who says that the absurdity of Christianity is the very reason to believe in it. This is because the greatest gift God gave people is the possibility of faith. (yeah i know, but just read it; im not done the course yet).

Its ridiculous how many different arguments for God's existence there are. Some sound so crazy but can are cool to think about

Oct 2 2010 3:35PM
0 0
All times are Eastern (-4)