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March, 2024

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Thank You Mr. President.

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The_Future
Posts: 1418 - Karma: 607

I hope I wasn't the only one who just watched his speech from the oval office.  Although he didn't give the most detailed information about what is being done at the gulf coast, I did appreciate him addressing our need for change in the energy industry.  He made it clear that he will not listen to those who advocate that our dependence on fossil fuels is too great of a challenge to overcome.  I agree with him %110 when he said that all change comes with a cost and even though it will be expensive to reform our bad energy use habits, it is most definitely worth the cost of changing now.  Because if we don't change the environmental, national security, and future economic costs will be much more significant.  I don't like political threads, but I was about 99% behind the president on everything he said tonight... just curious what other people thought of his speech.

Jun 15 2010 8:35PM
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Static
Posts: 8491 - Karma: 4,058
Glad you liked getting your ears peed in. How many speeches do you think it'll take to accomplish all that?
Jun 15 2010 8:37PM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
I thought it was about a month and a half too late.
Jun 15 2010 8:37PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
didnt watch.

doesnt matter what he says, oil companies will keep doing what they do. and speeches dont clean up the oil thats there, its too late for that.
Jun 15 2010 8:39PM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
I'll support him when something actually gets done.
Jun 15 2010 8:39PM
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The_Future
Posts: 1418 - Karma: 607
You have to start somewhere don't you?  And did you listen to his speech?
Jun 15 2010 8:39PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
This.

President Obama is probably the best president we have ever had when it comes to talking a big game then not doing shit about it. Speeches don't accomplish anything.
Jun 15 2010 8:47PM
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japanada
Posts: 13784 - Karma: 1,957
Haha yes! Where is all this change that he ran on? Time to get them nuclear reactors fired up and running again.
Jun 15 2010 8:50PM
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Broseph_Stalin
Posts: 3745 - Karma: 177
lol obama is like doubles and bush was like switch 10s

you didnt like them at first but you have to like them if you want progression
Jun 15 2010 8:51PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
BP is 100% at fault but i think that the gov. making energy companies be that far out in the gulf where oil is so far underwater and really deep underground that when situations like this happen it is more difficult to contain leaks as we are seeing. Also Obama is getting himself way too deep into something he knows nothing about. I dont understand why people are thinking that BP doesnt care about what is going on when they are loosing more and more money everyday this goes on.
Jun 15 2010 8:55PM
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The_Future
Posts: 1418 - Karma: 607

What about the regulations on more efficient cars that he introduced... oh and how about the more recent regulations on heavy work trucks and their efficiency levels? There never have been regulations on heavy work trucks before.  Oh and how about all of the wind and solar power which has popped up in the last couple of years?  More and more jobs are becoming available constructing, installing, and maintaining wind turbines.  Not only is it good for our economy, but it is great for the environment.  Things are being done.  He stated himself that the rate of change needs to increase if we want to be on the forefront of clean energy. 

The problem here is that people want instant gratification.  You type in www.newschoolers.com and you expect it to pop up instantly... if it doesn't you probably get frustrated and angry because your internet took 10 seconds to open the web page.  It took years of work and research to put a man on the moon, one of the greatest feats of technology ever.  It will take years to change how we create and use energy.  The goal should be to speed up the process.

Jun 15 2010 8:58PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
I would not say 100%. The oil industry had it coming. Regulators have been sucking at the teet to the oil industry and have let companies like BP go about their business unregulated (or regulated under their own rules which favor the best of the company, often sacrificing safety). I would say its an 80/20 at fault
Jun 15 2010 8:59PM
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JahJahBinks
Posts: 3567 - Karma: 460
exactly.
Jun 15 2010 9:05PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST! LESS GOVERNMENT REGULATION!

Meanwhile, an explosion happens, causing thousands of barrels to spill into the Gulf.


WHERE WAS THE GOVERNMENT? WHY WASN'T THERE MORE REGULATION!?
Jun 15 2010 9:05PM
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The_Future
Posts: 1418 - Karma: 607
Thank you. +Karma to you sir.
Jun 15 2010 9:13PM
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LO_GO
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 8
I HOPE Obama gets the same level of criticism that Bush got from Katrina.
Jun 15 2010 9:16PM
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thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
>implying Obama poured millions of barrels of oil into the ocean.
Jun 15 2010 9:17PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
Obama is in way deep now....

Oil will always be needed for manufacturing, there is insufficient investment in alternative synthetic materials that meet material engineering properties, life cycle requirements and are cost efficient to replace ALL oil based products.

Energy is one thing. Shame, oil doesn't turn your lights on and off. Natural gas is a good alternative for that, but I imagine you're going to go on a nuclear mission now - which presents a huge new problem... who wants a nuclear power station in their back yard? 3 mile island anyone?

Always an out of sight out of mind effect here.

America has NO public transport system, or mass transit rail system. Outside of NYC, a car is 100% necessary for everyday life - that's 300 million people in a country that depends on the car.

You will need oil as long as it is available - no matter where it comes from, so it had might as well be domestic for your own security.

What would of helped is if you'd of signed up to Kyoto, and not just bought developing countries emissions quota's off them.....

Obama had better have a water tight plan to reduce consumption (not remove consumption, that's impossible) without upsetting the whole foundation of this country.....

If he does, he's a smarter man then pretty much any american that's ever lived who's attempted to find a realistically viable solution to this problem, that is honestly bordering the impossible over here.....

America is a young country - if you look at history, it's probably got another 2 civil wars left in it yet!


Jun 15 2010 9:18PM
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LO_GO
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 8
yah and bush created a massive hurricane and flooding in new orleans??
Jun 15 2010 9:23PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
this thread makes me very sad for the future. i'm glad newschoolers.com isn't known for being a fast track to politics.

statements like "he hasn't done anything" or "it's not worth listening to because oil companies will continue to do whatever they want" are not only incorrect, but they promote helplessness and weaken any chance of overcoming any problems. you bitch about things being bad, and when someone is actually trying, you vehemently undermine their efforts. you're all a bunch of fucking pussies. it'll make you sound a lot more intelligent (which seems to be all anyone looks for on here anyway) if you hold your ground and stand for something, instead of laying down and inviting the world to continue to fuck you in the ass.
Jun 15 2010 9:24PM
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LO_GO
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 8
what have you done to help??
Jun 15 2010 9:29PM
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thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
Exactly.
Neither are responsible, or should be held responsible to the degree that they were/are being held.


BP should be funding the cleanup 100%, all Obama can/should do is make sure BP is held responsible, which is what he is doing.
Jun 15 2010 9:33PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
even though 3/4 of your post is irrelevant, the little bit that you brought up about the wind turbines and green jobs were not obama's doing.

On a different note, I probably could have worded my last post a little bit differently. Obama is the best president we have ever had at talking a big game then doing nothing about it OR slapping together a bundle of fail and saying, well that's good enough. (healthcare bill anyone?)

Let's put it this way. Obama puts himself into these situations. He makes big promises without following through, and in the past it has seemed to win him the popularity he needed quite well. However, I think it starting to catch up with him and people are beginning to catch on so he's changing his story to the whole "change takes time" deal while he was promising fast change a year ago.
Jun 15 2010 9:35PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
you're not from around here, right? well, i guess that didn't really need to be a question.

have you ever been to chicago? have you ever been to SLC? have you heard about any of the public trans systems that are currently being developed all over the country? jesus, that's a misinformed statement.

i realize you work in oil, but in turn your view is a bit biased. i don't disagree that oil has an extremely strong place in our society. i also realize that it is probably overly idealistic to think we can currently envision a world w/o oil. like the point you've made in many threads, plastics alone cement oil's place in our lives for many years to come. where i do disagree with you on this is that you use these facts to say a cleaner future isn't possible, that we can't change our ways. you've claimed to care about the environment, but when we are faced with an environmental crisis, you're quick to jump on board with precedent and an unchanging future. i don't know if it's a hope for job security or if it's honest, but i'd imagine they are closely related in this case.
Jun 15 2010 9:35PM
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LO_GO
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 8
why so late though?
Jun 15 2010 9:35PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
I understand you have a vested interest in oil, but the importance of seeking alternative forms of energy is obvious. Investments in renewable energy are at an all time high - we need to continue to shift in that direction.

Obviously, this change will not happen overnight. But it is change that needs to occur, and that will occur.
Jun 15 2010 9:37PM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
And listening to that speech and being spoon fed bullshit is considered "holding your ground and standing for something"? Am I missing something here?

I think not being critical of somebody who still has done nothing to solve a 2-month long environmental disaster and hanging on his every word is "inviting the world to continue to fuck you in the ass."
Jun 15 2010 9:37PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
i just finished a degree in mechanical engineering with a concentration in energy. i'll soon be taking over the world.
Jun 15 2010 9:37PM
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LO_GO
Posts: 1002 - Karma: 8
let me know how that works out for ya!
Jun 15 2010 9:39PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
whether or not you think you're being "spoon fed bullshit" is personal opinion (and probably closely related to political stance).

do you want obama to swim down to the leak and fix it with his bare hands? we've got the most qualified people in the world working on this right now, and he's doing his part to make sure BP is held accountable, leading to them solving the problem. i really don't see how's he's done nothing, when he's doing all he can.
Jun 15 2010 9:42PM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
Have you ever been to LA? Have you ever tried to travel across the country? How can you even defend the USA as a whole when it comes to public transit? It fucking blows! And what public transit systems are being developed all over the country? The ones where legislators pass bills APPROVING them but there are ZERO dollars to fund them?

How can you say that because SLC and Chicago (two very distant and isolated cities) our public transportation is anything like Europe?
Jun 15 2010 9:46PM
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thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
Do you think everyone just said "aww shit whatever lets forget about this and hope it solves itself" when the spill began? BP is responsible and they are attempting to stop the spill. Do you have any ideas on how to fix this faster?
Jun 15 2010 9:47PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
are you saying you expect, want or need the government to tell you what to do?
Jun 15 2010 9:53PM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
CHANGE!
Jun 15 2010 9:56PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
If you listened to what he said, I hardly believe 17,000 National Guardsmen and thousands of other volunteers cleaning the beaches constitutes as "nothing". Not to mention, he's been down there what, 4 or 5 times?

BP had the best technology to prevent as much oil from flowing as possible. The government was in charge of the situation, and it just so happens what they were trying to do has never been done before. So please, pay attention to the situation before claiming they did "nothing".
Jun 15 2010 9:59PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
So if i wanted to get from Houston to LA on public transport: what mode would that be exactly? High speed train? No. I know in these cities you mention you have a semblance of a public transport network, but i ask you this - could i get a bus from 25 miles outside Chicago, straight into the downtown CBD, on the hr, every hr....or less! in both directions? That's what we're talking about here, and not just in your biggest cities... you cannot argue that the car is not king in the USA. Public transport for making downtown environments less congested, and a commitment to a nationwide incentive to get people out of cars are two very different things.

I'm just being realistic, and it's not just America, it's every country in the world that relies on Oil.... there are a lot of rose tinted glasses with this subject, and as i said, i'm just being honest - it's a very very difficult thing to achieve, and it will not happen over night, maybe not even in your lifetime.

Like i said, you had the opportunity to commit to a change with Kyoto, but America didn't sign up.

I make these statements from within the oil industry yes. I don't have a bias, it's just my job, which is secure regardless...I work subsea projects, not in drilling,but all sorts - including subsea tidal power systems (Oooh Shock Horror eh?!.. and who for? oil companies....!) I'm offering you an honest insight into this industry, this global economic lifeblood.......

I have Never said the future will not change, in fact i have said the opposite, you need to change, but you will need a balance of all sources of energy and oil.... everything, even plant based oils.... but my ultimate point in all of these is there is not one right answer.... so all i want you to realize is you cannot just take oil out of the equation. Also - who in the world has the resources to invest in future energy resources on the scale required? not governments...... no, America as a nation owes trillions, but Oil Companies need a future business..... you think they'll just cease to be when oil runs out? no of course not, they're evolving everyday..... have you any idea how big the R & D capacity is at Exxon for alternative fuels and new technologies aimed at sustainable energy futures?? It's easy to hate oil companies, but they're made up of good, smart people, who go to work every day and look for new ways of doing things.... every day.... what do you do exactly in all this?

I understand how it's easy to hate them, and get sucked into the Dick Cheney image, but really - it's not like that.
Jun 15 2010 10:03PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
And by making BP set up an escrow account to compensate businesses and families in the future, he is essentially forcing BP to make good on its promise to help the area remain financially stable.

Look at the Valdez situation - I'm sure you'll be able to find numerous accounts of lives that wrecked and families that didn't receive a cent from Exxon.
Jun 15 2010 10:07PM
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Polar_Beer
Posts: 1514 - Karma: 204
This
Jun 15 2010 10:09PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
For future reference, saying an incredibly vague statement in response to another incredibly vague statement contributes nothing to the thread.
Jun 15 2010 10:10PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
.
Jun 15 2010 10:11PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
I would really like for you to show me where the word "Europe" is in that post. I also don't know what being isolated (since when was Chicago isolated?) has to do with public transit being valuable. These are two huge cities that allow for their citizens to live carless lives, and I'm sure there's more that I haven't been to. The expansive layout of our country leads to difficulties in creating a public transit system integrating the entire country, but how does that cheapen the systems within cities where most of the people spend most of their lives? How often do you have to travel across the country?

Yes, I've been to LA. Yes, I've traveled across the country. I'm not saying the US is a public transit mecca, but to say NYC is the only place that public transit exists is a much larger exaggeration than simply saying there are other cities where public transit thrives.

Lastly, I won't disagree that investment in public transit is a huge problem, but design and discussion are huge parts of development. If we see some legislative changes -- which I still don't understand why people think the Obama administration is incapable of this, we'll see more public transit investment in the future.
Jun 15 2010 10:12PM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
lol
Jun 15 2010 10:13PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Nope. But I do know that BP slashed its alternative budget from $1.4 billion in 2009 to somewhere between $500 million and $1 billion for 2010.

Hardly much compared to the $16 billion they made last year.
Jun 15 2010 10:14PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
Right - OK Before this descends into the usual kind of shit storm, I want to ask a question. Now i guess, i'm older then most people on here.... I have a Masters Degree in Engineering, as well as an environmental science degree.... and 8 yrs experience working offshore in Oil and Gas, as a subsea Engineer.

So - here is a question that I want to get feedback on - there is no right or wrong answer here, just food for thought and i'm interested in intelligent thought out answers -

Ok, so...

What do you think has had a higher Environmental Impact - The building of the Hoover Dam, or this oil spill?

As i said, no right or wrong answer - just food for thought, and raises the questions of is an accident on a deepwater well, the first in 35,000 plus similar wells completed safely that has had a massive environmental impact.... worse then the huge ecological impact of a man made dam for the purposes of providing power and water.... ?

I guess my point is to reiterate the complexities in the technical challenges we face to meet our future energy needs.


Jun 15 2010 10:24PM
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jamodeo
Posts: 3040 - Karma: 663
Who didn't like switch 10s and progression is actually doing something which obama is not
Jun 15 2010 10:27PM
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.Ben
Posts: 454 - Karma: 14
well anyone who believed that change could happen fast is just dumb. It takes forever for anything to get done in the government because theres always some manipulative asshole who opposes whatever issue is at hand and manages to brainwash people into agreeing with them. No matter who is trying to pass something or what they are trying to pass, it will meet opposition at every turn.
Jun 15 2010 10:29PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
I think that would be directly related to the economy - but im not sure, so don't quote me.

but about profits - Oil Companies MUST remain profitable, with Crazy profits too because they are constantly playing catch up with supply / demand of oil. To bring on line a new offshore field takes about 5 yrs and costs between 5-10 billion dollars.... so those profits go right back in to ensuring pumps don't run dry in 5 yrs time.... always... everyday.... where we going to be in 5 yrs... . you would be scared to know just how fine that line is... and in as little as 3 years, we're going to feel the lack of investment from the last 2 yrs (economic downturn). The day when Oil companies do not have big profits, then that fine balance of supply / demand is in serious trouble once you get past the lag time of older fields running dry and new fields coming online....
Jun 15 2010 10:30PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54
I like how he held BP accountable for making sure coastal businesses were given proper compensation for profits and possible profits lost due to the spill and its effect on tourism and traffic (though how they'll project such earnings and make a legitimate claim is beyond me). He did address our need for alternative energy (as he should), but I'm a little pissed that other states haven't pitched in their reserves this early in the game to help clean up the spill. I'm not sure of the history of the Gulf environment degradation he was talking about, so I can't really comment.

So far, the White House hasn't really been up to par with keeping it's promises. While this is more a problem of stubbornness from both parties, I'm glad Obama didn't make this a speech about partisan tactics and regulation and focused on the issue. I'm going to wait a little longer to see if he follows through on his projections before I throw the brick at him.
Jun 15 2010 10:34PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Complexities, yes - there will always be challenges for new technology.

I just don't understand why you seem to be almost arguing against alternative energy. If you aren't, I apologize. But I am getting that vibe from your posts. And like I said, I know you are involved in the oil industry. I understand you are worried about the industry, all wells, companies, professionals, being painted with the same brush. But how can you argue against regulations not only making their jobs safer, but also reducing the chance that accidents like these will happen again.

I guess what I am saying is this: Is it worth saving $750,000 to cut corners? Obviously, in this case it wasn't.
Jun 15 2010 10:34PM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
I appreciate the less heated response than mine. I agree that car is king in the US, and the best I can offer against that is that I'll be doing my part to change that in the future. We have many rural areas where a public transit system is hardly feasible. But even there, a central station of some sort would benefit everyone.

As for the 25 miles out of chicago argument, no, it can't. But if you drive in 8 miles, you'll have train lines all day. There's a line going directly from O'Hare to downtown. I think that is a pretty useful characteristic of carless chicago.

Lastly, I realize oil companies are investing in things other than oil. They would be evil if they were not. However, these are still some of the largest companies with some of the oldest histories in our country. It's pretty hard to change course when you're driving a huge freighter. As an engineer, I'm sure you understand the concept of inertia.

As for what it is that I do exactly? I just graduated (as I stated earlier), and I'm working in an auto shop for the summer before I move west in the fall. Unfortunately, because of the move, I can't set up anything too important right now.
Jun 15 2010 10:34PM
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