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Spins, lincoln loops, backflips and railslides

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funtimes
Posts: 263 - Karma: 93
alright so i have a couple questions. i made this thread in the trick tip forum but only got one answer, so i thought i would try my luck in the ski gabber thing. first off i have hellbents and i have always done backcountry, and never really park so bare with me

1st: i have started doing some spins, but i have felt like when i try and do 3s or above i feel like i just huck it and it isnt smooth at all. it feels almost jumpy. is there a way i can get my spins to be smoother? and if you say carve off the jump can you explain more on how to do that? Also, when i throw a three i just cannot spot my landing...i come all the way around but my skis hit the ground before i can even see the ground...

2nd: with lincoln loops, how big of a jump do you need? i can do them into the pool and stuff, but how big does it need to be? also, do you still need to throw your shoulder back towards your back hip off of a jump even though you are kind of leaning back? because if you throw it in front of your hip youll start to rotate sideways too...

3rd: with backflips, can you start on a small jump in the backcountry? im tall and i just wanted to make sure that if i tried to do a really quick backflip on a small jump that i wouldnt hit my head on the jump. where do you guys suggest trying it first?

4th: railslides, how is the best way to learn? are boxe rails or whatever harder than rails normal rails? and i bought some public enemys for cheap with a +4.5 or +5 mount just to mess around on. i can ski switch well on my bents, but should i remount them to center for rails or do you think it should be fine?

+karma to good answers my friends. help me out
Mar 30 2010 7:43PM
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Jimmy.
Posts: 2888 - Karma: 27
trick tip didn't help enough?
Mar 30 2010 7:45PM
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YongLa
Posts: 489 - Karma: 185
I can help you with the 360s.

Are you taking them off big or small jumps?


Mar 30 2010 7:45PM
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Baskin.
Posts: 1387 - Karma: 13
I've heard that center mounted bents are fun everywhere so remount if you would like...But if you really want performance get some park skis that will have better swing weight and durabiltiy in the park


just practice and you get everything work your way up from small to large features
Mar 30 2010 7:46PM
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funtimes
Posts: 263 - Karma: 93
mostly pretty small...tryin to figure them out on smaller jumps before bigger ones
Mar 30 2010 7:47PM
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cultrara
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 46,851
to learn railslides: start on a box, these are easier than rails, try to find one thats low to the ground and you dont need to jump far to get on it. all you do is 90 on and keep an athletic stance
Mar 30 2010 7:48PM
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funtimes
Posts: 263 - Karma: 93
mine are center mounted...i can ski switch great i just havent done any park stuff hah
Mar 30 2010 7:49PM
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YongLa
Posts: 489 - Karma: 185
In my opinion, you should worry about "smoothness" right now.

You should just get comfortable spinning and landing.
When you start taking them off a little bit bigger jumps, you can start slowing down your spins and you get to really see yourself spinning.

I do 3s off small jumps too and I can barely see where I am in my spin until the last 0.5 seconds.

Mar 30 2010 7:50PM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
Don't hit rails with Hellbents. It's just a silly idea.

Start on a flat box. Go straight at the box, make sure your tips are parallel, going straight in the direction of the box, and make sure your body is aligned right with the center of the box. Keep your feet a bit wider than shoulder width apart. Jump out of the fronts of your boots; that is to say, keep your weight forward and think about jumping AT the box, not just straight up. Make sure to turn a full 90 degrees, and keep looking to the end of the box. Once you're on, just stay nice and square, try to keep your weight centered and keep both of your bases flat to the box; but if you get your take-off right, then staying balanced on the box shouldn't be a problem. It will take care of itself. Even on flat rails, if I get on right I just stand there like a G until the end of the rail :P. Look to the end of the box all the way there. Then ride away like a thug.
Mar 30 2010 7:51PM
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RickAstley
Posts: 953 - Karma: 32
when throwing 360's, I find its better if you pop, then spin after you pop. I find it helps if I look down and just safety grab it keeps me centred and smooth. When you are looking down you will see your landing, as soon as you do open up and stomp hard on the landing. And never forget to afterbang. Hope this helps man.
Mar 30 2010 7:52PM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
This. Colby James West taught me not to pop until you see the tips of your skis go over the lip of the jump. Then pop, and spin. Don't rush it, or you'll catch an edge on the lip (as I did twice in a row, with terrible results) or your spin will be all fucked up.
Mar 30 2010 7:55PM
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Dirac
Posts: 1304 - Karma: 335
1. Be more patient, pop and wait a little longer before you start spinning. Make sure you are leading the spin with your core and shoulders.

2. Not a big jump at all. I am a little confused about what you mean by the shoulder back. In my opinion It is easier to do lincolns with a tiny bit of backflip in them because you can spot your landing as you come around. If you try to do it straight sideways (like a diving board) then make sure you are super forward on take off or else you will probably land on your ass.

3.Yeah you can. If you are hitting your head then you are doing something seriously wrong. Don't sling it or arch your back. pop and keep your core strong and flip it around. If you can do it on the trampoline without moving backwards then you already know the basic motion. (if you move backwards you probably are slinging)

4. Boxes are actually probably easier to learn on than narrow rails. I am going to make a trick tip video this weekend on how to learn rails so check out my youtube channel. I would remount them if you want them to be a park specific ski, but you will not notice really until you start doing switchups or fast spins. If they are all mountain skis leave them where they are!

hope that helps, I was just taking a study break.
Mar 30 2010 8:03PM
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funtimes
Posts: 263 - Karma: 93
so dont do a pre spin at all? cuz what i have been doing/what ive always been told was to have your upper body be about 90 degrees turned by the time i am coming off of hte lip. so you saying i shouldnt pre spin?
Mar 30 2010 11:54PM
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yojimbo
Posts: 3631 - Karma: 27
you shoulding wind up on a 3 at all. it's such a small rotation just look over your shoulder until you see the landing and then look at the landing, everything will come around right naturally.
Mar 31 2010 12:00AM
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Wes-Side
Posts: 200 - Karma: 10
Definitely not! You should not be 90 degrees when still on the lip, you are setting your self up to catch an edge or something else bad.
Mar 31 2010 12:01AM
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HIRO
Posts: 548 - Karma: 34
haha this actually helped me alot too, thanks guys
Mar 31 2010 12:10AM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
This. Even when pros set doubles, they are never spinning before they leave the lip. They're spinning very fast a millisecond after they leave the lip, but they leave the lip squared up. Don't pre-spin. It's just the wrong way to do it.
Mar 31 2010 12:21AM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
This. Even when pros set doubles, they are never spinning before they leave the lip. They're spinning very fast a millisecond after they leave the lip, but they leave the lip squared up. Don't pre-spin. It's just the wrong way to do it.
Mar 31 2010 12:22AM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
This. Even when pros set doubles, they are never spinning before they leave the lip. They're spinning very fast a millisecond after they leave the lip, but they leave the lip squared up. Don't pre-spin. It's just the wrong way to do it.
Mar 31 2010 12:25AM
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Holte
Posts: 10730 - Karma: 7,744
I'm a tall skier (6'4"), who only skied backcountry until I moved to CA for college four years ago. Here's my advice.

When you're learning 3s, don't carve off the jump. It will make you develop bad technique, and it won't make your spins any smoother. In fact it will probably make your spins worse because it will likely keep you from popping off the lip of the jump. The only way to get smoother is to throw tons of 3s. Like 30 of them every day you're on the snow. It just takes practice to get to the point where you're not whipping your lower body around. And remember to POP, even though it might be scary as hell.

I'd say a 15 foot jump is pretty optimal for learning lincolns. All my lincolns tend to turn into weird flat 3ish things since I can't look forward and not try to spot my landing, but I've never had any trouble getting the rotation around in about 15 feet.

For backflips, I would absolutely recommend building a small jump in the BC. I got about 6 feet of air off a 4 foot tall jump into powder for my first backflip. Trust me, you won't hit your head. If you can do a backflip on a trampoline, you can do one on skis. You'll probably land it your first try.

Contrary to what other people might tell you, rails are incredibly fun on Hellbents. They are super stable. I'd start with boxes, even though they aren't necessarily easier. Rails are skinnier, so they require a little more precision when you're jumping on, but they're also easier to lock on to. When I first started hitting rails, I greatly preferred rails to boxes since they're usually less slippery. But definitely hit some rails/boxes with your Bents; you'll be missing out if you don't.
Mar 31 2010 12:41AM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
Oh hey there triple-post! My bad.
Mar 31 2010 7:26PM
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funtimes
Posts: 263 - Karma: 93
oh ok...well i didnt catch an edge before, my head would still be forwardsish and my shoulders getting closer to 90 degrees while my skis were still straight and the tips coming off of the lip...i just couldnt spot my landing. any tips to make them look smoother?
Apr 2 2010 9:55PM
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Ryan*
Posts: 1827 - Karma: 1,195
Hmmm...idk man. I'd have to see it.
Apr 3 2010 5:42PM
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gregorio
Posts: 2372 - Karma: 151
i think he means he's winding up for the spin
Apr 3 2010 6:45PM
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AlexF
Posts: 271 - Karma: 206
I used this method when teaching my sister to do 3's. Her problem was a bit different to yours but this might help. My sis would always block her rotation at 180 by looking up at the jump once she'd spun 180. Even on bigger jumps she'd stop spinning at 180 because she'd open up her shoulders and look back up at the jump. So I'd take her poles and tell her to set the spin and look for me (I'd be standing down the landing). I told her to keep looking until she could see me and then to point at me with her hands. Problem solved and she can now do 3's quite comfortably (it took a while to wean her back onto poles while spinning but it worked).

To make it look smoother I'd suggest bringing your knees up towards your chest. I think this looks better than a pencilled 3 and once you've got this it'll be easy to add grabs. Also, It means you'll have more control on your landing as you just extend you're legs when you're ready.

And one final tip which I got from Justin Dorey (had him as a coach at Momentum...awesome!). When you're going to spin, rotate your palms inwards towards your body. If you do this it is pretty much impossible to splay your arms out or throw them around. The first time I used this tip (spinning onto a box) it instantly felt so much smoother. Probably one of the best ski tips I've ever heard.

Apr 3 2010 8:49PM
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Swampy
Posts: 546 - Karma: 53
It seems like you just started skiing park that's sick, and you're trying to learn.  Just keep skiing man
Apr 4 2010 3:09AM
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the604
Posts: 1067 - Karma: 10
i used to have bad form doing any spins. than one day i got high and i just went for it and my body did proper form. ever since, spins have gotten easier and easier because i finally understood how to spin off jumps. i usually just  get to the lip, turn my head and dont use your arms to launch youre body around, just let youre body follow youre head
May 16 2010 1:51AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Lincolns took me a few tries to get on the right axis, but if you keep your eyes fixated ahead and just keep that ear to your shoulder you will probably come around just right.
May 16 2010 1:00PM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,342
like everyone said, start on boxes for learning rail sides.
a flat, fairly short in length low to the ground one is perfect. hit it with moderate speed and if your new to the whole sliding surface, try just riding over it straight first.. it will look lame as shit, but it helps you get the hang of it. slowly start trying to turn yourself each time you attempt it from there, angle your skis a little more each time until you are completely sideways. get that down and you are ready for rails.
some people have said no rails on bents, but ive seen plenty of people do it, it just looks a bit goofy.
May 16 2010 1:09PM
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