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Ski racers in the ski cross

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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Anyone watching this? How can you make it to the Olympics in Ski Cross and have absolutely no clue as to how to work transitions?

Sure, some of them have it figured out but at least half of them look like they have never popped or pumped in their life (or worked a berm for that matter).

At least the snowboard cross athletes all have freestyle and pipe backgrounds, they definitely could teach these racers a thing or two.

The announcers are making excuses like "they have never seen a start like this in their life". Get real, it's already been toned down and made way easier than the start the boarders used. What do they want, a 4 person super G with no features?
Feb 23 2010 2:30PM
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Cincher
Posts: 3403 - Karma: 535
Some of them did look really awkward in the air I'll admit. What's so hard about keeping your body in a steady landing position?
Feb 23 2010 2:34PM
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clark.
Posts: 308 - Karma: 14
1. the snowboarders looked worse and flailed a lot more
2. they're in the olympics and would probably destroy you on that course

It's ski cross and it's timed...they don't need to look good
Feb 23 2010 2:48PM
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Simmo
Posts: 512 - Karma: 28
Even at university level I found I couldn't compete with the racers, although I blamed that on the baggy clothes and twin tips, and that the course was too flat.
Sure the freestyle boys would be more comfortable in the air but its not about looking smooth, its keeping as low, flat and fast as possible which is what the racers do and believe me the good ones know how to work transitions, thats one of the things that can set them apart from the rest of the racers around the gates.

For me ski cross is at the moment far more of a racer event than a freestyle event.

A Jon Olsson designed ski cross course anyone?

Also did anyone else spend the whole event praying for a backflip off the last kicker!?
Feb 23 2010 3:04PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Bullshit. The snowboarders worked through the start like they pumping through a skate park, half of these ski racer girls are coming to complete stops on the first couple of features and having to pole off the top just to get going again.

I couldn't give a shit whether or not they look good, but when you can't even pump a transition well enough to get over the very first feature in a course, you might want to spend some time learning how to do more than just carve a race turn.
Feb 23 2010 3:07PM
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Elg
Posts: 2998 - Karma: 3,880
!!!

And i know its not about looking steezy for those guys, but most of them were rolling down the windows and landing backseat/with stiff legs on almost every jump. I bet (!) if someone like Jon Olsson or some other freeskier who has a little bit of a racing background would de really good in ski cross.
Feb 23 2010 3:09PM
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clark.
Posts: 308 - Karma: 14
Um I wasn't talking about the start. And the skiers cleared the flat on the step up-step down features while the snowboarders had to pump just to barely get onto it. Skiers obviously don't have to pump shit because that's what poles are for.
Feb 23 2010 3:12PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
1- I was talking about the start, obviously

2- The lips on the jumps have all been knocked down for the skiers because they don't want to do anything other than absorb at the lip like they are in a superG.

3- If you really think skiercross should be about relying on pole pushing other than knowing how to properly pump transition, well you are pretty much hopeless. I suppose you think instead of working the transition, Simon should just pole push through the halfpipe to gain speed...
Feb 23 2010 3:20PM
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CKpolicy
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 2,463
if you are trying to claim racers don't know how to work transitions, then you, my friend, are simply retarded.
Feb 23 2010 3:28PM
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assface
Posts: 4319 - Karma: 2,031
enak gavaggio is who i was going for, he was in enjoy and shredded some sick big mtn so he probably knows ho to work trsnditions
Feb 23 2010 3:28PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Oh, ok. I guess all those girls that stopped dead/couldn't make it up or over the features at the start did it because of how incredibly good they are at working transitions.

Feb 23 2010 3:33PM
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-dva-
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 23
I KNEW I recognized that name from somewhere.  thank you for figuring that out for me.
Feb 23 2010 3:33PM
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assface
Posts: 4319 - Karma: 2,031
yeah there was some artile in a magazine that talked about him doing skiercross and big mtn. no problem
Feb 23 2010 3:35PM
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CKpolicy
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 2,463
enjoy your olympic gold
Feb 23 2010 3:37PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
I need to see this.  I always thought it was awesome how Rahlves and Puckett transitioned over to skierX.  Haven't seen the women race yet. 

Are you are saying the women aren't aggressive enough and that they just don't have skills for that level of competition?  Hmmmm  Aren't several of the SB pipe girls also BoarderX racers?  Put some skier pipe girls in there for 2014 then.  DOH!  there is no skier pipe. 
Feb 23 2010 3:53PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Some of them are great, but some of them are obviously 99% racer 1%freestyle (being generous).

It was basically a comment on how all the top snowboard cross riders have strong freestyle skills and backgrounds, but you can really see how that skill set is lacking in many of the skicross athletes.

For example look at Seth, Maelle, Lindsay, Drew, Nate, etc (top boardercross riders). All of them used to compete in Halfpipe and Slopestyle too. Lindsay and Maelle have both won World Cup Halfpipe events in the past.

It's just a completely different culture, snowboardcross has a lot more of it's own identity, which involves a lot more of a freestyle mindset, whereas skicross is currently a retirement option for racers, and it seems like in some cases the sport is being adapted to them instead of them adapting to the sport.

Nothing against racers or racing, I love that sport too, but ski cross athletes should have a little more motocross style up and down and transition skills, and not be only skilled at highspeed super-g style jump absorbing.
Feb 23 2010 4:23PM
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crankdatsoljaboy
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 1,568
such an ignorant post , ive ski raced for 7 years and let me tell you , you have a loooot more background for these bumps by being a racer and being used to these kind of speeds and turn then by jumping on park jumps or going in a pipe , i think that these falls only happen because ther e4 in the same lane and sometime dont have the time to think about alll .
Feb 23 2010 4:28PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Calm down, you obviously didn't read the "ignorant post" very closely because you don't even realize I was talking primarily about : A - Qualifiers where they are alone on the course, and B - the start section which is not fast or turny at all, but is all about transition work.
Feb 23 2010 4:37PM
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papasteeze
Posts: 12055 - Karma: 911
No no, no its not.  read it again.  I see what he is getting at.   Correct me if I am wrong, was there more air time in the DH course comparitively to other years?

For what is worth my one son with strong racing skills, looses to other brother with no edges in chinese down hill runs. the racer washes out, while the baggy pants kid typically goes sliding on by.
Feb 23 2010 4:51PM
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Che~
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 296
this
Feb 23 2010 5:00PM
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smooticus
Posts: 1798 - Karma: 27
Im not going to even start arguing about this, but i will say that they look kind of funny in the air, flailing all over the place.
Feb 23 2010 5:26PM
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
Having raced SX for 3 years and actually RACED that course at the WC last year I can tell you that start is a lot gnarlier than it looks on TV. Imagine trying to scale 15-18ft vert pipe walls with no speed from 20ft back.

It's snowing right now, fresh snow is SLOW. This course is running WAY slower than it was for the men, and for the snowboarders. Sometimes other racers get in your way or take your line and you're forced to adjust and you lose speed and case. The new snow made this course so slow they're poling to get enough speed to make trannys. Its NOT as simple as skiing park on your own, there are THREE other people on course.

Mad respect for all these girls, half of them are injured, and the other half are mothers. Half of them probably go bigger than most of the boys on this site, some of the courses over the years (especially on the ski tour/48 straight) included 60ft gaps to 60 more ft of table before tranny, you fuck that up your season is over.

Have some respect, or know what you're talking about.
Feb 23 2010 5:29PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
FYI I used to race ski-X, including XGames. I have a lot of respect for the athletes, but it doesn't mean that there isn't any truth to a lack of freestyle skills in some (not all) of the current crop of athletes.

Congrats Ashleigh McIvor who just killed it! She totally showed the type of skills that I am talking about.
Feb 23 2010 5:43PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
^^ and furthermore (to Nadia), I have also run the Cypress course, helped Jeff Ihaksi (the builder) test it. As well, the thread was made during qualifiers in the morning, well before it started snowing and got slow.

Love the sport, but you need to be able to take some constructive criticism.
Feb 23 2010 5:50PM
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Cincher
Posts: 3403 - Karma: 535
I love love that you're able to back up your argument with logical answers.
Feb 23 2010 6:09PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
I've always been perplexed by this. Every time a skiercross racer goes airborne it seems to be

"AHHHH OMG IM GONNA DIEEEE AOLKHSLDFJHSDGJH!!!!!" And their arms and legs go absolutely WILD and they look like a cat hurled through the air.

You'd think they'd be able to tuck up over a jump and not act like a parachute????

So weird.
Feb 23 2010 6:16PM
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brickerenator
Posts: 316 - Karma: 10

Ever tried a legit ski cross course?

The jumps just feel so different. Everybody flails somewhat. You aren't thinking at all about looking smooth, you're just concentrating on going as fast as you can, while avoiding the other racers.

I'm not great at freestyle or SkiX, but my freestyle jumps are much more controlled and smooth.

Just my 2 bits

Feb 23 2010 7:05PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
Not a legit one, but a small one. I can imagine they're harder but it'd seem like untucking in the air would cost you precious seconds
Feb 23 2010 7:14PM
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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
Someone seems a bit bitter about the outcome of the US/CAN hockey game....hahaha. No offense.
Feb 23 2010 7:15PM
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fdsa
Posts: 686 - Karma: 19
Did you create this thread for any reason other than to rip on every person who comes into it?

I am willing to bet that any one of those girls could hand you your ass all the way down that course and be waiting at the bottom to crush your head between her thighs like a rotten orange.
Feb 23 2010 7:22PM
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JKill
Posts: 626 - Karma: 67

Agree, and Ski cross is a race so it would therefore have ski racers in it, right?

Feb 23 2010 7:30PM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5851 - Karma: 4,522

The reason they cut the lips off the jumps for the Skiers is not because htey want to just absorb the jumps like super-g so do the boarders, it was because the skiers were hitting the lips with a lot more speed than the boarders and launching and overshooting. if you watch the mens closely almost every jump they snowplowed to wipe of speed and still ended up over jumping.

Some of the girls going into the transition stuffed up, but out of the start most of hte girls were fine in the qualifiers, except Ophi and she tried to pole the first drop and lost her rythm.  Out of hte start there wasn't much too work until you got to the backside of the first feature. As there was a drop hafway down after the jump which threw them off balance.  After the first freatuer the girls were working the rest of hte course, look how much girls like Katya, Ophi and Fanny got ahead on the backside of the first wu-tang but working it.  Around the berms it is very had for skier to pump speed because of our centre of gravity and balance being different to the boarders, we are front on so we can't generate speed it is quicker for us to cut close to the gates on most of the berms.  Apart from that the men didn't need to generate speed they were going fast enough occasoinally in the finals a guy would work the transitions in the flat and make a pass, but they were wiping off speed for the jumps and the girls are all capable of doing this course, there is a really harsh criteria to qualifiy for Olympics in ski cross that knocks a lot fo girls out. 

To do with the winidng windos off the jumps it because they are travelling so fast off a lip going about 50ft with a speed of 50miles and trying to absorb the jump they get thrown up and the wind catches the bottom of their skis catching them off balance. It is relaly hard and takes a lot of core strenth to be able to stay compact in the air.  Your centre of gravity is changed.

Feb 23 2010 7:31PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8863 - Karma: 31,577
i race SX, but never have been on a course that big, but my take on it is that it is so much harder than it looks to hit those features at high speeds.
sure some park rat could go and hit those jumps, but in skiercross, you really have to try to absorb the jump and get back on the ground as quick as you can, it is pretty hard to not overshoot those features
Feb 23 2010 7:39PM
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snowvalleylol
Posts: 62 - Karma: 10
they shouold make it so its like half aabout the time and you get style points too.
Feb 23 2010 8:10PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
No, I didn't, I created it as a former Ski cross competitor. I started losing interest when some of the racers began to want the courses changed to suit their skiing, instead of bettering their freestyle skills and adapting more to a true "cross" course. For example they would complain about every gate in every berm until the gate was moved so low that nobody would have to go through the berm anymore, instead it became about who had the best gs gate carve. Not that there is anything wrong with a gs carve, but it is not really in the spirit of a true cross course, which should be as different from racing as motocross is from streetbike racing.

Snowboardcross is not populated by a majority of ex snowboard racers, but rather by riders with a lot more freestyle in their background. However, with the exception of Davey and Aleisha and a couple of others, most of the skicross athletes these days are straight out of a racing career.

I was simply commenting that there are a few athletes in the field right now who lack the skills to successfully get through a start section that required more of a freestyle skill set than a racer skill set.

In snowboarding, it's the opposite, all the hardbooter snowboard gs racers have been weeded out of the sport by courses that are designed with a lot of transitions that require more of a freestyle setup and skills.

Is it really an issue that I pointed out that some of the people with zero freestyle background are lacking in some transition skills? I thought it was kind of obvious, but wow you guys really got your panties in a knot.

Feb 23 2010 8:18PM
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Nadia.
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 1,104
Sure, a few of the girls struggled, but to get in to the olympics they had to be ranked top 35* (it's either 35, or 32...) to get in. Mitchey was one of the girls who struggled with the first few features, Ive known her for years and competed with her on the Jeep/48 straight tour as well. This was a difficult course, I've never seen her struggle with a feature like that before. Ophie almost never screws up, and it took her out of contention, that's saying a lot.

Our Canadian team has had probably 10x the runs on that course that other athletes had. They've been training those Wutang features for the past 2 years, whereas others havent known, or havent had them available.

I don't know what else to say, yes, criticism is fine... but seriously when you go from blue skies on the mens day and they're overshooting to snowing and a slower track with poor vis and competitors that weigh 120lbs instead of 210lbs you wonder why some of them can't make tranny? It makes sense to me... I'm sure those girls that were having issues tried their best, and I know they're beating themselves up over their mistakes. Andra is hospitalized with a broken tib plateau over her mistake, (getting twisted off the last booter, probably in part due to wind and the fact shes 95lbs soaking wet) Yet she's' done just fine and stayed uninjured at other WC and pro circuit events...
Feb 25 2010 9:11PM
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