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Gay Communities - Children

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Owen.
Posts: 1134 - Karma: 13
Okay so we've all read the Growing Gay Communities thread but there was something that I thought was missing from the debate and didn't feel like it would get enough light if I brought it up on the 6th or so page:

What's your take on gay couples adopting and raising children? Since the nature vs. nurture argument has yet to be settled one could argue that placing a child in that situation is unfair and unnatural. I know gay people who have said that they wouldn't adopt a child for just that reason, so what are your (gay NS members especially) thoughts on this?
Jul 20 2009 8:16PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54

Gay couples will not only provide good housing and nurturing for orphaned kids, but will adopt and supply care for millions of kids worldwide. I can tell you without a doubt that this will stimulate the economy, lessen our funding for homeless children and orphaned child programs, and will provide families who cannot reproduce the much-needed and sought-after ability to adopt. I can tell you that the idea of Gay couples producing gay kids is a myth, and a very mean one. I was raised by straight parents. If the argument were true, there would be no gay people in the first place.

I would love to adopt when I am ready. I love kids, and I know that I'd be a fantastic father if given the chance. I would never steer my kids in the wrong the direction like what these guys are insinuating. If they happen to be straight, I have experience in that area and I can help. If they turn out gay, whatevs. It's all cool cause they're my kid, and I'd love them to death.

There will always be parents and people who are unfit to raise kids. To use that as an argument is both devious and ignorant.

Jul 20 2009 8:23PM
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martin.
Posts: 2115 - Karma: 34
people said the same thing about single parents raising children. Coming from being raised from a single mother it's not a big deal, because I never knew anything else.

Gay couples will be the same thing. If a kid is raised by two guys or two girls who is to say that it will be detrimental to their development?
Jul 20 2009 8:24PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27

I don't see the issue at all.

Straight parents have gay kids, so who is to say that gay parents will make gay kids? It's retarded, and anyone that believes that should get the Clap.

Jul 20 2009 8:27PM
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Chrris
Posts: 568 - Karma: 211
The only thing thing that bothers me with gay parrents and kids is that the kids do get made fun of.
One way or another. Say you have a hot lesbian mom,
Your going to hate it when everyone wants to fuck her.
And your going to hate it when everyone makes fun of your gay dad.
They may have a caring family at home,
But outside of that home,
Chances are that kids gets made fun of so much. and thats were im iffy on gay people having a kid.
But again this is just my thoughts and how i've seen things happen,
Jul 20 2009 8:43PM
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lloyd_christmas
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 16
none of you have addressed the bigger problem...how the children will be viewed by their peers.

i took literally an entire semester on this, (sociological effects of different types of families...all that jazz) did very well, and i still haven't fully developed an opinion.  it's tricky.  but just know the groups the kids associate with and how they are viewed by their peers affects how they "turn out" 10X as opposed to simply who their parents are and how they are raised. 

whether that changes your opinion is up to you....just my 2 cents.  but the above posters missed the bigger point.
Jul 20 2009 8:43PM
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lloyd_christmas
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 16
^ok, the guy just above touched on it while i was typing my response.  i retract the "none of you" part.
Jul 20 2009 8:44PM
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paige.
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 907

Someone who is homosexual is no different from someone who isn't and will be just as capable of creating a caring, supportive environment for a child.
The only difference I can see for a kid growing up with homosexual parents is that he/she will have to deal with prejudice from peers/other parents etc which may be tough at times.
Jul 20 2009 8:46PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54

But that raises the question of whether we should also disallow every single couple outside of the white race from raising kids, because I know a hell of alot of indian, pakistani, arabian, black, hispanic, polynesian, cross-eyed, ginger, different-accented, and asian kids who recieved just as much flak as I did for being gay. We all turned out just fine.

Jul 20 2009 8:48PM
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lloyd_christmas
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 16
absolutely.  which is why i don't have an opinion quite yet.  though your use of "just fine" doesn't hold much water.  you're only one case, just like all the other non-white kids who turn out "just-fine", it depends on how people see you and view "just fine". 

is it happiness? lots of friends? financial success? a lasting marriage (gay or otherwise)? it's a vicious cycle...everything goes back to how WE see the "fineness" of your life, so to speak, which is exactly what i started with.  because our lives revolve around groups, not just ourselves.

you see where this is going.  which is why i'm not sure what to think of it.  it hurts my head.
Jul 20 2009 8:55PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
i say you have to look at it from the childrens perspective, and maybe their view is the only one that should be taken into consideration, because, at the end of the day, its them who are upmost effected...
would a child prefer to live in a boys home for 5 years, or be adopted by 2 gay men? would they rather have no parents, than gay parents? these are the types of questions they need to be asked, because i think it is selfish of society for a) the couple to think its ok, and b) the society to think its ok or not, because, we are not the ones effected, so how is it fair that we make the decisions for these kids?

i for one would not be happy or comfortable living with a gay couple, period....i wouldnt want 2 fathers, i wouldnt want 2 mothers... i wouldnt want 2 be bullied at school for reasons i had no control over what so ever, because its inevitable for that to happen. I wouldnt want to be brought up in a gay community, surrounded by other gay people, i wouldnt want to be excluded from a normal childhood, and normal opportunities, because of the label i would have received from my gay parents

i was adopted btw
Jul 20 2009 9:01PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54

But I DO know kids with 2 dads. They are happy. Go watch the Life documentaries on this stuff. I'm not saying every kid is going to not have problems, but what you state is a SOCIAL problem. In places like San Francisco, LA and New York, the problems are minimal compared to the benefits! And you can't assume that every gay guy is living in the fucking Castro surrounded by other gay people. I way more straight friends than gay friends - it's that way for so much of the population that those last points are moot.

It seems you're judging all gays by the visible minority which is not cool.

Jul 20 2009 9:14PM
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grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
o man another thread on homosexuality, didn't you learn your lesson last time haha, this will only end up being 6 pages of ranting and raving with drew yelling at people and chastising them for their opinions if they differ from his own, howver getting back to the point

i feel that children raised in a gay household is acceptable under certain circumstances, im sure 99 percent of gay people in a relationship would rais theire children better then a lot of straight people, if you are lucky enough to have two parents it shouldnt matter what type of sexual orentation they are, the only thing i fear is the radical outcome that might come too fureation, for example ( i know its on an entirerly different leverl) but in the same ball field as the black panthers groups which will eventually become rasical essentaully brainwashing the youth, (sort of sound like how obama was elected, but thats for a whole nother discussion, an im not talking about brainwashing im talking about propaganda) I dont want children raised in a gay household to look down apon straight people and feel that they should repent for once being homophobic, i also this it would be better to have two men rais children, desite being gay, its good to have a father figure in your life, yet im sure they will still be nuturing, if a woman woman relationship you miss that aspect of essuntally domance and senarity, however it is so hard and espensive to go threw with an adoption anyways especcially from over sees id first rather a straight couple in all honesty get the child over the homosexual couple, and im sorry if that makes me ignorant, its just my personal opinion
Jul 20 2009 9:15PM
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Wild_Style
Posts: 155 - Karma: 10
Generalizing by the visible minority is the worst argument- it's like judging african americans by crackhead bums or Barack Obama.
But this is a much more loaded topic, and I don't have a formulated opinion on it, maybe someday.
Jul 20 2009 9:21PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
how much propaganda goes into those documentrys you reckon? ever noticed that its only ever happy families they show?
now im not going to argue and disagree with you.. whatever, its your opinion vs mine, we'll get no where...
but gay people GENERALLY reside in gay communities, because thats where they are most accepted and comfortable.....gay people have gay friends...

im just looking at things from my perspective, that i would not of been comfortable being raised in a gay household in this society we live in
Jul 20 2009 9:25PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54

"in this society we live in."

So I would be punished for other's inability to hold compassion. I should be deprived of liberty because of their ignorance.

Sounds about right.

Jul 20 2009 9:29PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
no you shouldnt be..
but yes you would be
Jul 20 2009 9:32PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54

I hope you never have to know just how crushing this feels.

Jul 20 2009 9:35PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
ok, i dont wana stir shit up here, thats not why i posted in this thread...

remember, we are living in different countries here, and different communities, so obviously our observations are going to be different....from what i have said, that has come from my observation within the communities i have lived, maybe these communities have been slow to adapt to the inevitable introduction and development of gay communities... i dont know... but i didnt mean offence towards you
Jul 20 2009 9:46PM
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Owen.
Posts: 1134 - Karma: 13
I really doubt that two men or two women would raise their child better than 99% of the straight couples who raise children... that has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Having a strong male figure in the family, and a nurturing mother is important...

Also, pretty much everything you said made no sense..... wtf man
Jul 20 2009 9:46PM
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Calvin.
Posts: 771 - Karma: 10
YES! I agree with you.
Jul 20 2009 9:51PM
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paige.
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 907
Well what about strong mothers and nurturing fathers? There are families where the roles are reversed or have a strong mother and a strong father. Huge numbers of people don't fit the gender stereotype. It is just as possible for two guys to create a balanced home environment as it is for a guy and a girl.
Jul 20 2009 9:52PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54

I know, i was just commenting on the truth of the statement above, and it really does weigh on you knowing that you will be punished for no reason, and that you are considered lower than criminal, enough that you're not even allowed to love someone. Or even be around kids. Alll I know is that I'd be a great father. But no one believes me because of how I am.

Jul 20 2009 9:54PM
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Smuffy
Posts: 4685 - Karma: 3,407
i work at a summer camp and theres these kids who go there who have lesbian mothers. the kids are super chill get along perfectly well with the others.

the only issue i can see, is finding it hard to fit in with homophobic kids who find out their parents are lesbian. however, if youre that homophobic i dont know why anyone would hang out with you in the first place...
Jul 20 2009 9:55PM
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paige.
Posts: 1930 - Karma: 907
I believe you. There is absolutely no reason you would be a bad father. NONE.
Jul 20 2009 10:01PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
i dunno man, i mean, im sorry for getting you bummed....all i can say is that the idea of gay couple adopting is relativly new, so naturally, people wont be for it instantly.. but over time, who knows...i cant really say much with digging to deep...
but yeah, respect man
Jul 20 2009 10:15PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54
Oh, don't think it was your words, it was just that I was thinking that there are some good points for not having gay couples raise kids NOW, because it would endanger them, but even to allow us something so innocent as marriage is too much. If we're not even allowed to be together, why in the world would they trust us with kids. Don't worry about it. It'll change, if not completely, then gradually.
Jul 20 2009 10:22PM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
a child is a product of their environment.
i think in respect towards gay couples, anyone just has to look at how many children actually turned out alright in straight married couples, and i think it's rather shallow or cynical to say, but i don't think the numbers are high as far as successful childhoods go in straight couples.
children need two things, discipline and love. if anyone can provide that to a child, they will have proper boundaries and be able to function as an individual. children mimic what they see, and i think everyone does. actually, i'll add stability as a third component.

as far as i'm concerned with nature, a child is only a real issue when he/she has a mental illness of sorts, i.e. personality disorders, autism, etc. even though, to say, those aren't necessarily terrible things.


Jul 20 2009 10:26PM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
ps: gender roles are a little out dated. i'm stressing a little.
Jul 20 2009 10:30PM
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Slinger1x1
Posts: 8853 - Karma: 65
why is it unfair to a child? this just backs up all the sexism (as funny as it is) that goes around. you don't need a mother, you need a mother figure. you dont need a women in the kitchen cooking and doing laundry. or you dont need a man playing baseball and fixing up cars. a man can cook and clean, a women can work on cars or play sports. its just sterotypes. nowhere does it says that a man and a women have to raise a child, and no where does it say that two men or two women cant raise a child
Jul 20 2009 10:33PM
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sick-as-aids
Posts: 3453 - Karma: 1,007
hah i dunno man, touchy subject now! when you were quoting me, id forgoten who you were.... anyyway
i still believe in my original posts, not because i dont believe in you, or gay people raising children, i just dont think right now society makes it fair on the kids, and that because of societies current views, the children will suffer from this.. and i do believe that, that the only reason why this wont work, is because society wont allow it.... but it can and will change
Jul 20 2009 10:33PM
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jayo.
Posts: 5015 - Karma: 34
I was going to type a long, thought out response but it looks like Arabian. pretty much has it all under control.
Jul 20 2009 10:35PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 54
By all means take over. I'm gonna go wallow in my own self-pity 'til morning. Damn, I don't know why, but this thread really got me so damn down that I can't even think straight.
Jul 20 2009 10:38PM
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grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
thats not what i said first off i was infering, sorry if you missed that, that 2 loving homosexual parents rasing a child woud rase their children better than a lot of heterosexual households, ie, which come from broken familes, abuse and so on
Jul 20 2009 10:50PM
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ilikeplants
Posts: 1868 - Karma: 17
Sure thats going to happen but if it is more widely accepted for gay people to adopt children then the insults would go down.

Kids who come from heterosexual parents don't get made fun of about their parents because its normal to have hetero parents. Same thing would happen if more and more gay people adopted, it would be seen as normal.
Jul 20 2009 10:54PM
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AskAGaySkier
Posts: 104 - Karma: 10
Yeah, seems like a Catch-22. If there are more gay parents, it won't be a problem, but it will be a problem for all the kids raised by gay parents until then. But I think it's a generational thing. When our more accepting generation raises kids, we'll socialize the kids to accept kids with gay parents the same way my parents socialized me to think racism was unacceptable. Isn't this the same type of argument people made about desegregating schools? It took a lot of work, but children, black and white, are better off that it happened.
Jul 20 2009 11:14PM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
My neighbors are gay, and their kids are some of the nicest people I know.
Seriously, gay people are much better parents than regular couples in my experience.
Jul 20 2009 11:23PM
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