Re: the article More Hopeless Idealism

That article was really well written...I'm not sure where snowboy56 gets off trashing it...Kamikaze's totally right, what the Americans are doing in Afghanistan isn't helping, it's making things worse

I agree that it was a really well written paper, I just dont agree with the ideas in it~its like someone going and punching you in the back of the head what do you do? fight back or let him kick your ass~id def say fight back~thats the same thing thats happening to us except on a lot larger scale
Trying is the First Step to Failure.~Homer~

I think Kami speaks for a lot of us more sensible citizens of the US. We really let things get out of hand when we went into Afghanistan, remember, Bush originally said we were only going in to get Osama bin Laden. Then we were just going to get rid of the Taliban. So far we have completely lost track of the original mission, and we're just trying to play the role fo the world's policemen. I agree that's it is time to pull out, and concentrate on tightening the security lapses in the US. That means not destroying our civil rights, just making sure that a terrorist can't sneak a nuke in on a boat or in a suitcase.


'Victory? We're French, we don't even have a word for it.'

I agree with Snowboy somewhat. We can't just sit around and wait for something like the WTC to happen again. If we are passive, we will be destroyed from the inside and out. Our own citizens will condemn the actions of our government and it will show other countries and terrorist our weakness. When you get hit, hit back. It's that simple. We had given Afghanistan an warning that any terrorist attack coming from the harbored Al-Queda would be directly upon their heads. They were fine with that before the attack. We're not trying to make people live our way of life. We are retaliating for an attack on the innocent.

My second point. Top quote the author '...the Islamic world, and of the world at large respect our nation.' Unfortunatly,that is almost impossible. Hate for the US imperialism has been so distorted over the years that there is no actual point they hate us for. We are just symbolic of everything they hate. A new generation is coming up through those ranks that has been bred to hate Americans and everything we stand for, good or bad. They will not change easily. I do not believe the hate will go away. It is sad.

My final point- In today's world, there are weapons that could kill us all pretty easily. Sit back for a moment and think about how easy it would be for a strong terrorist organization to sit back, press a button, release a bioulogical weapon, and kill a quarter of the world's population. I believe if terrorism continues, this will eventually happen. As demonstrated by the 9/11 terrorists and those in the past, they have no regard for their lives or the lives of others. Did you know that Britain just declassified incredibly detailed instructions to make a nuclear bomb? (Source: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/15/uk.nuclear) Did you know it requires weapons grade plutonium? Did you know that 88kgs of Plutonium have stolen from unguarded or underguarded Soviet nuclear facilities? It's true. What if a terrorist organization could manufacture these? At the press of one button, a million lives ar ended. Terrorism must stop, this is a step in the right direction.
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'Hello, Frank. Can I get you something? Rack of lamb, perhaps?' -Louie

I agree wholeheatedly with Kami... and in response to the being punched in the head analogy... think of it more alon these lines... someone punches you, you punch them back harder, they hit you again harder... if you subscribe to this philosophy, the cycle of violence wont end until one of the two people, one of the two countries is completely wiped out... 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind'

WJB has got the drift of what I was thinking... I mean, I totally agree with what you guys are saying about how America has to defend herself... but overall, the only thing that this is going to lead to is more violence. We're caught in this cycle now and we're never going to escape it... when you think about it, the only true way to protect ourselves once and for all would be to completely wipe out our enemies... which would just lead to more enemies, eventually culminating in us all being dead. That's the problem with my hopeless idealism, here... is that if we take a pacifist stance, then we'll just get wiped out. I guess that's what happens when you try to be peaceful... it's the natural succession for leaders, to take over through violence, and the same for nations as well. The only way we will advance is through violence... which makes me wonder why advancement is so important in the first place.

'No eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn.' - Jim Morrison, 1943-1971

We dont really need to advance we just need to make sure that we keep our ideals or freedom alive~if we cannot coexist with each other then one of us is eventually going to have to go~this is were Darwins theory of Survival of the Strongest comes in~we have to show that we are the strongest to keep up our way of life~I understand your ideas of peace but to get to that peace we need to use some violence~its very ironic but what needs to be done has to be done
Trying is the First Step to Failure.~Homer~

I also agree, Though you cant have the Taliban running around free, you also cant bomb a nation because a few bad people live there. The U.S. is terrorising all the innocent people living there with their night bombing and such. All the people who have suffered due to the U.S. raids will undoubtably despise America from now on. Instead of ridding the world of a few terrorists, America is making thousands and thousands of new enemies with personal vengeance as motif.
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www.turnoffyourfuckingcomputerandride.com


Good friends tell you about the time they nailed that broad....BEST friends reach over, tag your hand, and say 'YOUR TURN'

Yeah snowboy I see EXACTLY what you are talking about. That's just what pisses me off I guess, is that people are going to have to die because we ARE the strongest and no matter what, we will retain our way of living. This is why my idealism is so hopeless...

'No eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn.' - Jim Morrison, 1943-1971

oh god im such an idiot~i just got the meaning of the title to your essay~its what is best but hopeless to happen-i understand now
Trying is the First Step to Failure.~Homer~

WJB... good quoting of Ghandi. And yes, if retaliation occurs, soon there ill be nothing left. And kami, it is hopeless in todays jaded society in which the majority feels a massive military operation will solve and rid of us problems.

Why must we attempt to fight terrorism, with nothing more then a more legal form of terrorism. War is terror. You can't argue against that. War is nothing more then a destructive machine which will kill anyone, if not physically, then emotionally.

Now is not the time for hypocracy and hate. Engaging in military strikes is exactly that, hypocritical. And as kamikaze said, it will further hatred among citizens of the immediatly affected nations.

Look at the country after 9/11. There were peopke going around that were willing to launch a nuclear strike on Afghanistan. Anytime innocent people die, hatred builds. It doesn't mean if the hated are innocent sometimes. Violence has no target, and retalitation to violence will escalate untilt he world is decimated.
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~~~~Phunkin' Phatt Phreerider~~~~
~'BigAirSkier1580: and i am a newschool skier
DatGrlyChick: skier??
BigAirSkier1580: yah
DatGrlyChick: whats that?'
**Love ya Lacey**

One other point i came to in american history today.

The media images that you are seeing of the Afghan situation is not horror filled. Sure, the Afghanistanm situation isnt as bloody as the Vietnam War was, but parallels can be seen. Public support for the Vietnam quickly faded once the media broadcasted the horror that was occuring there.

TIME Magazine's most powerful image, is the photograph, of an innocent, young, Vietnamese girl, running, engulfed in flames, after being attacked with Napalm. Video's of executions without trials and such also helped to sway public opinion.

Now, maybe there aren't exedcutions of the sort in Afghanistan, but innocent people are being hurt, but we do not see this. We see glory, and good old uncle sam taking a stand against the evil taliban (who i must add, we put into power... the cycle of terror will continue after the taliban as well)

This sortt of thing is occuring in israel at the same moment. palestinian's are being massacred, and viciously bullied, but reportes are both denied access, and fired at by soldiers. Why we allow this, i don't know. Because it is a form of propaganda. if you do not allow the story to be researched, and only let known, what you want to be heard, then... you are covering up some terrible secrets.

In summary, the media is being controlled. Ad what you are seeing, and using to make decisions, is not the whole story. So don't look at the images on tv, and say, 'There, look, we are doing nothing bad. We're only killing the terrorists!' Because out there, there are innocent civilians who may be burnt, bloodied, and wounded, but you don't know because mass media is a controlled system.
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~~~~Phunkin' Phatt Phreerider~~~~
~'BigAirSkier1580: and i am a newschool skier
DatGrlyChick: skier??
BigAirSkier1580: yah
DatGrlyChick: whats that?'
**Love ya Lacey**