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March, 2024

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K2 Corporation's wood cores? WTF

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beaskiro
Posts: 81 - Karma: 102

So last year I bought the Line ep pro with some sth 16s, ripped both heel pieces out within first week of riding, ended up putting heely coils in all the holes, ripped those out too, warrantied the ski, got the hellbent in replacement (thought it would be a stronger ski) ripped the heel pieces out on the third day of riding them.  Heely coiled them and apoxied them, hope they will stay.  My bro on his second day of riding his new Kung Fujas ripped his jester heel piece clean off, on something reely small and "no impact". 
Now, I have the first generation made n ak that I mounted no kidding 5 different times and still super solid and no signs of stripped holes. 
My question to people who have purchased k2 skis recently having troubles like this? Has k2 started using cheaper woods for their cores? WTF?
Also another question for sth users out there do you have a little play in the heel piece that goes into the rails? I have a little (a lot for my liking) The shop guy I go to says it's normal and I should look at some of the bindings he works on.  But I am wondering if this is the root of my problem not the skis.
The same shop guy says the new k2 cores feel really soft and week.  WTF?  my past experience with k2 has been super good. Does anyone know?

Dec 10 2008 2:48PM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Could be shitty mounts every time. Did the same guy do them all?
Dec 10 2008 2:53PM
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beaskiro
Posts: 81 - Karma: 102
nope, different guy and shop on every mount...
I questioned the shop tech every time and told him my history every time.
Dec 10 2008 2:58PM
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skisquaw@420
Posts: 1802 - Karma: 13
well, first off, k2 semi-recently moved production fully to china, so it could be that. i recently mounted a pair of pontoons and when i drilled the core, it smelled like pine. when i looked at the wood drillings, they were still kinda moist, so k2 might be taking a shortcut and using wood that hasnt fully dried yet. as for the wobble in the sth heel track, i have 7 pairs of s916s and they all rattle a little after a few days, its nothing to worry about, it doesnt wobble when your boot is in the binding, so it doesnt affect you while your skiing at all
Dec 10 2008 6:42PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
are you using the proper length screws?

U must ski like the hulk
Dec 10 2008 6:46PM
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Jballz
Posts: 1638 - Karma: 79
are you doing switch frontflips but only getting 270 of the rotation
Dec 10 2008 8:24PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7604 - Karma: 20,091
wow, that is rediculous that they would use wood that hasn't fully dried, if that's indeed what happened. Also it wouldn't make sense to use pine, because it is like butter when you screw into it, but fir and spruce which K2 uses would smell like pine too. And yeah, that wobble has happened to my S912s as well, and my S810s before they were totalled.
Dec 10 2008 8:55PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Fir is pine.
Dec 10 2008 9:33PM
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Powforbreakfast.
Posts: 2226 - Karma: 409
Technically, yes.  So is spruce... Pine is a general term that refers to most conifer trees, which fir and spruce both fall in to.  There are only a few species that are, by definition, pine, but the term is blanketed because conifers are so similar.  All are soft, but fir (and spruce) ARE actually harder than the common pine.  Very little difference; mostly it has to do with alignment of the grain.  "Pine" is wide, while fir and spruce often have grain closer together.  It makes a huge difference as far as screw retention goes though, which is why companies like k2 can use such a soft wood and get away with it.  I build skis, and I've found the vertical grained fir has the best binding retention that most other softwoods, and it kicks ass because of it's dampening abilities.  Granted, i use it in a laminate with other hardwoods... I'm getting off on a rampage.  I think I've explained myself.
Dec 10 2008 9:51PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7604 - Karma: 20,091
this is the first I've ever heard of all coniferous trees being referred to as pine....and I know a bit about wood because my father is part of the woodlot owner's association on PEI, he is also a carpenter part time, rebuilt a wooden boat and a few houses, and we cut wood every year for firewood. I also plant trees during the summer, not commercially, but I work for a watershed group and we plant native species to help restore the natural forest of PEI, which includes softwoods like hemlock, black, red and white spruce, larch/tamarack, and red pine. We definitely do not call all of those different trees pine.
Dec 10 2008 11:55PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
You guys both definitely know more about wood than I do. I thought fir was considered a pine because its coniferous and an evergreen and because when you get fir from the lumber yard it seems like its stamped "pine" but im probably mistaken
Dec 11 2008 12:08AM
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Powforbreakfast.
Posts: 2226 - Karma: 409
I think we're on the same page here.  The trees you listed fall under species, the most specific of the seven levels of biological classification.  Almost every conifer falls under a broader genus, and an even broader family, the next two levels of biological classification.  The blanket term "Pine" falls into one of these two next brackets, i can't remember.  The point of the matter is, Pine is a broad word, when there are actually much fewer species that are literally named pine aside from the higher term of classification.  Does this make sense?  A super good way to explain it:  Type in "Pine" in wikipedia, and it will explain everything i just have.
Dec 11 2008 3:01AM
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Powforbreakfast.
Posts: 2226 - Karma: 409
I'm actually half-way wrong.  Wikipedia will explain that pine is one of a few families in the genus of conifers... yet it's still a blanket term that describes most softwoods?  I think don't provide my argument with justice.  The point is, firs, spruces, cedars, etc. are not literally the same as pine, so no, fir does not equal pine, but yes, that whole classification is very similar.
Dec 11 2008 3:10AM
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schmies
Posts: 2032 - Karma: 505
Not sure what wood core LINE uses, but we still retain two different groups of engineers to create K2 and LINE. We share some raw materials and a few ideas, but we strive to retain two distinct lines. No pun intended, ha.

Your HellBents have the same FIR woodcore & construction that the original MADE'Ns had. Those skis were also made in China just like your HellBents. I go to our factory every year and nobody is molding skis with damp cores. Cutting corners in production would be absolute suicide and instantly reduce your credibility, customer base and percieved quality of your brand. Something nobody is interested in doing obviously. I wouldn't work for a brand if they shafted people.

K2's Factory Team skis also have double the glass binding mat volume of standard skis to not only surpass the industry standards, but pass the athlete's standards as well. Pep, Seth and Andy ski the same skis you do. Your situation could have been a complete fluke or a crazy mount job.

If you would like to explain the situation to one our dudes in Customer Service, please call 1-800-426-1617. Give them the lowdown and see what they can do for you. We don't want you to spend money on something and be bummed on your experience. Let me know if I can help at all.
-schmies
Dec 11 2008 1:38PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,086
And this, kids, is customer service.

One more reason I love my Hellbents.
Dec 11 2008 3:05PM
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eurotune2
Posts: 1450 - Karma: 10
sounds like a fluke to me, i dont know why k2 would compromise the credibility they have just to save a day or two in manufacturing... schmies pretty much summed it up, its great to to have people from a big firm like that so closley realting to the customers... props k2(and line)
Dec 11 2008 3:16PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
.
Dec 11 2008 4:26PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
k2 is the greatest thing to happen to skiing since snow.
Dec 11 2008 5:46PM
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Malczyk
Posts: 1433 - Karma: 1,880
Line uses and will always use our Maple macroblock wood cores and Poplar (for da ladies) please don't judge companies by one experience and lump Line with K2, ha, just kidding Ryan. K2 uses what "customer service expect and guy that can draw really good and stuff guy" Ryan Schmies said.
Dec 11 2008 7:28PM
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skisquaw@420
Posts: 1802 - Karma: 13
would you like to explain to me why the pontoons i was mounting had damp (and sticky) wood in their core?
Dec 11 2008 7:31PM
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eurotune2
Posts: 1450 - Karma: 10
moisture can get into the core through cracks and stuff, once thats in that shit will rot
Dec 11 2008 7:58PM
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skisquaw@420
Posts: 1802 - Karma: 13
these were brand fucking new, right off the shop floor
Dec 11 2008 8:09PM
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Powforbreakfast.
Posts: 2226 - Karma: 409
Not in defense of k2, but just saying: conifers are sappy.  A very small chance, but you could have hit a knot in the tree, or a similar pocket of some sort, which are often rich in sap.  NOT likely, but definitely possible.
Dec 11 2008 11:52PM
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eurotune2
Posts: 1450 - Karma: 10
ah that is a good possibility, never thought of that... you would think they would probably screen the wood but hey,  things happen
Dec 12 2008 10:45AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124

I'm not sure if  0n3p is putting in a metal mesh on their skis in the binding area but a few other indie companies do.

 Can't say as to k2 and others outsorcing to china I can't say, but I can say there is no fuckin way I would ever serve my dog any thing made in China.

But I'm sure the are much more cautious about the way they make skis and toys and all the other made in china stuff.

Except Dps skis HOLY fuck what sweet sticks. They are semi fucked with their maufacturer at the moment, but their skis are fuckin solid and light ass hell.

Dec 12 2008 11:58AM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
shitty mounts, either that or you are unlucky as!

not every single ski is going to be perfect, but that many with that many tear outs is weird. Probably bad mounts, and bad screws. Which sucks. Salomon heels wiggle a tiny bit, but as long as your forward pressure is good, dont worry about it. But if you dont feel confident with something, stop buying it.


Dec 12 2008 3:49PM
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