Car companies fucked?

what a great graph! i posted before reading anything in this thread. thank you so much.

Do you know why we have to pay $75/ho? Don't point the finger at anyone who has (R) next to their name on the telestrator on cspan.

bah! fair enough........................i guess.......

btw, i whole heartedly support the auto bailout.

One it is forcing the companies to become leaner, dissolve some of the excess brands that are causing the diseconomies of scale, and most importantly open the publics eyes to the destructive power of unionization- especially a politically protected butt fucking power house like the UAW.

Perhaps now public interest will be strong enough to dissuade those on capitol hill from passing legislation protecting these mother fuckers.


Not only that but if any of you are actually paying close attention to the economy i think we've at the least stabilized. The DOW has been at about 8700 for some time now and i think consumer confidence is just now creeping in. Letting the auto industry tank would be just like letting lehman bros tank. The entire market will fail again and we will see dow 6000. Good for me when i short all the different stocks in your mom and dads mutual funds, bad for my parents, your parents, Drew.'s parents, and everyone else in the world.

We need some stability and now is not the time to teach the automakers a lesson. I think getting their faces in HD so we can all see the sweat oozing out of their pores on cspan and cnbc was a lesson enough. This is a one time only deal and i think they realize that.

I actually believe when he says letting the automakers fail would have a devestating effect on the economy.

Not only would there be the immediate effect due to 3 million people losing their jobs, the spike in unemployment, huge drop in consumerism, 3 million mortgages defaulting, etc etc, but the secondary market would take a massive hit too. Things like this would affect the stock market tremendously and drive this market so south, itll become a polar bear market (hahaha oh i am too funny). Recovering from dow >6000 is a lot harder than recovering from dow 8700

Ha ha, suck it auto makers,
"Auto bailout dies in Senate"
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/11/auto.bailout/index.html

yeah i know wanna know who else should suck it?




http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gHs5OM3gFG_DytQQZFbWfgPT08MAD950Q4EO0

Wanna know what your moms 401 and your dad's mutual fund are going to look like?



the skiier is your college education btw. And no its not mike douglas. Thats just a gaper who doesn't know how to land.

im not talking about consumer confidence as in retail. Ahhhbviously this quarter has the most consumer spending but keep in mind retailers have to release projections. If those projections are lower year over year or if retail numbers fail to meet projections, that reduces consumer confidence not increases it. Its all relative.

But anywho

Im talking about stocks.

My confidence is coming from 4 days straight of triple digit dow growth followed by a week of sustained 8700 range.
It comes from so many stocks trading below cash with p/e ratios below 11. If youre into value investing, like warren buffet, nows the time to go bargain hunting. So many stocks right now have been beaten down they have so much potential. BMY, HRL, Alcoa, MO etc.

Even the finanical sector was looking good with a lil JPM here a lil BAC there.

But oh wait. no.

cya.

GM was trading at .71 at one point and now its at 4.50 hellllooo .50 a share!

Right, the man telling me that communism is a more successful economic model than capitalism is also the one telling me that i shouldn't be talking about things I don't fully understand....

^ P.S. try making an argument without injecting your own opinion sometime. Ever heard of facts? Use them.

It is astoundingly stupid to me that automakers would ask for a bailout so that they don't have to cut any profits. Bullshit.

Commusnism is an extremely successful economic model. The only problem is that humans can't reproduce tha exact communism from the Communist Manifesto because of human traits like greed and such.

I do agree with tha fact that you never said that. He put some words in yo mouffff.

exactly! Communism is, on paper at least, an excellent idea. And why wouldn't it be? Everyone works together towards various goals, and everyone shares the benefits. But then once you factor in a government and leaders etc, they start taking power over the people which ruins the idea of equality. I know there was some random eastern european country that actually had a very close to "textbook" model of communism but it dissolved or something or other.

Word. It porlly dissolved because of greed from another Communist Nation. ha

your right Drew and i also see the dow going down to around 7,000 if not lower at the beginning of next year. when the projections of next years spending come in from all the industry sectors things could get worse. the economy is in a huge contraction right now (as you know, im just stating it haha) and next year will weed out the weak, as if it has not done so already. at least gas prices are down, thats a major plus. i know you want prices to go back up to accelerate alternative fuels but as do i, but gas around $4 a gallon again (tied with the weak economy) will cripple many more industries than its already doing right now.

its interesting to follow all this that is happening in the country right now.

don't know if this is already been said but foriegn car manufacturers are able to bring their cars into our countries at a relatively low cost to them and they sell their cars cheaper therefore they are making money. if you look at the big three, when they try to send their product to other contries they are burdened the cost for them to send their vehicles to these other countries therefore making it non economical for them to sell them in said countries. the big problem here is that north americans can buy cheap foreign made cars while we cannot find buyers for our vehicles outside of the contenent . the governments of canada and the united states shoud impose the same restrictions on forign made cars that are being forced on the big three to sell their vehicles elsewhere

that is a problem but its not really relevant to this situation IMO. the problem with the big 3, well mainly GM, Ford is in much better position, is GM is having a hard time with the unions as well as fuel standards that must be met, and R&D expenses. its getting expensive to due business on such a large scale production such as GM. its my knowledge though that the white house is going to step in and probably bail-out the industry.

the other reason selling GM cars in other countries is irrelevant is that GM owns and produces other car industries in those regions and sell quite well actually in such areas like Europe, Asia and South America.

yea dude, read the whole thread before you post. I edited it and apologized.

so uh, p.s.- learn to read entire threads.

Fuck the UAW.  Why do they think people who tighten the same exact fucking bolt 1,000 times a day, and don't know shit about how a car works, should get $75/hr incl. benefits, while mechanics, who can put the whole damn car together themselves and actually can fix shit, should get paid very little in comparison?

I'll respond to this when I have time.

That's true, it may be pointless....

regardless, here's a good program I found on the Chavez years done by PBS. while I don't think it emphasizes how much of a failure Chavez is, it does bring a balanced view of Chavez. Maybe you'll stop singing his praises after you watch it.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/hugochavez/view/

Basically the common man has to start spending again, have faith in the economy, if you start buying up products again the recession will fade and lead to an upturn in the market.

The only people who should be extremely worried are the corporate bigwigs with thousands...no...millions of 'make believe' dollars invested in the sharemarket, they are the ones who will suffer because of a recession.

Usually taxes will drop, as will interest rates, so a recession is usually a good thing for the common person. Except for companies having to close because the corporate bigwigs dont want to lose money so they sack people. its harsh, but america really has to change its view on its capitalistic ways. Right now the rich are getting richer by screwing over the little man who gets poorer and poorer.

Cuba not like the USSR? I beg to differ


And while you constantly praise Cuba for being "head and shoulders" above every other Latin American country, I've yet to see your evidence. Saying Cuba would be like Haiti is purely speculative.

The face of the matter is that communism has manifested itself into nothing more than the worst possible form of capitalism, the capitalism of the state.

It is about Chavez, but there's a good part about Cuba and Castro in there. Whether it be Cuba or Venezuela, it helps highlight the fraud that is Latin American socialism.

you are only half right.

this is meant to be constructive criticism not a mean statement, so here we go.

"The only people who should be extremely worried are the corporate bigwigs..." this statement is true to a point. Every American as a whole is suffering right now. what makes you think that its just corporate america will suffer? Almost every single middle class family has ties to the market, either directly through stocks in individual companies, or IRA's, mutual funds, life insurance..... the list goes on.

The problem we are facing is that we are too tied to the market, which is why republicans and democrats want to bailout the car industries. its not because we want the jobs here (thats a part of it) but if the car companies fail it will cut the market so deep we will see times that resemble the depression era. they are trying to save the market, not the average union car worker.

The rich people are getting richer is right but they are not screwing over the average person. yes, there is corruption in the marketplace and SOME people are screwing over other people. however, most of the rich people in this country got rich by busting their ass off, working on something they love and they have gotten rewarded for it.

so, your on the right track, keep researching, its actually kinda fun to see how this is all going to play out.