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4frnt: Worst ski construction ever?

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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
So my edge ripped out of my TNKs, which should not have happend, especially on my first day riding.  The skis had not been abused in any way, and good care was given to them. 

Upon inspection/comparison of the edge I noticed that they used a different kind of edge, one with no anchoring rivet things in it, which differs from all other skis I have ever come across. 

I took the ski into a shop today and they said they could not repair it in the traditional way because they couldnt ancor the edge to a drill.

My question:  Why did 4frnt skimp on the quality?

This is aimed at anyone who is thinking about going with  4frnt, as an urge NOT TO.  I am extremely dissatisfied.  When I called about a warrenty, they told me that my warranty was void a month before the incident, and they could not even look at the ski.  The damage was not even rail related.

Please do not buy 4frnt, as survival of the fittest ski should prevail to ensure a competition of quality product in the industry.
Dec 1 2008 5:01PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
To clarify; it was my first day of the season.  They had been used the season prior.
Dec 1 2008 5:02PM
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Aaaron.
Posts: 11817 - Karma: 903
ouch bro.
warranty it?
i would personally go with a different brand.
Dec 1 2008 5:23PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551
obviously you didn't read the whole thread, he said he couldn't get it warrantied.

but, that really sucks... i can't believe that a company that is going out of buisness (in my mind) slowly but surely would do something like this. If there wasn't any foul play (against the warranty like rails, rocks...) I don't know why they wouldn't even bother looking at the ski. They obviously don't have good customer service or skis for that matter. I completely agree with you that survival of the fittest applies to this topic and you should be really pissed right now if you aren't already.

Good luck in the future, I would really recommend Armada and Line for reference
Dec 1 2008 5:43PM
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FreeBallin
Posts: 1845 - Karma: 17
that sucks man..considering it was not rail related...where on the ski did the edge start pulling out then?
Dec 1 2008 5:55PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Yeah, I have always gone with k2, but I am poor and had to go with the cheapest option available. 

I would really just like to warn people about the problems I have been witness too, and try to help people avoid getting scammed. 

I would also like it if 4frnt would read what people are saying about them, and realized that the consumer is highly unsatisfied.


Dec 1 2008 5:59PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Right in the middle, and it ripped out all the way to the tail.  So its not just a peice missing in the middle, but the entire edge. 
Dec 1 2008 6:01PM
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VTtreeskier
Posts: 1833 - Karma: 64
Damn, i love my msps, sorry ya had such a bad experience that blows.
Dec 1 2008 6:16PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24704 - Karma: 29,687
STL's and TNK's... I dont know why, but I've always heard of them getting smashed.. (probably because people use them for park, and therefore just destroy the fuck out of them on jibs) whereas, a ski like the MSP's i consistantly hear nothing but "these are a straight up tank" kinda comments, based on how they last.

My buddy tom weighs about 220, stomps shit harder than anybody i've seen before, and has managed to break his MSP's... somehow, they are still rideable... how? I do not know.. but its fairly incredible.
Dec 1 2008 6:40PM
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andrew.
Posts: 2349 - Karma: 165
im like 195lbs and ride my stls pretty hard, theyre still holding up fine. i wouldnt badmouth a company just because one of their skis broke. idk, i still like 4frnt, but thats just because they havent snapped on me just yet.
Dec 1 2008 8:02PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Its not just that the ski broke, its that the edge they used is obviously inferior, and their customer service sucked.  I felt jipped, and felt that fellow skiers should hear about my experience and feelings.

I have broken skis before, and I know what a ski should be able to take.  these skis should not have busted.  And I feel like my money was wasted. 

I would rather other people save themselves the trouble and go with another brand. 
Dec 1 2008 8:15PM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93
You failed to mention how it happened. How do you just tear out the edge of a ski if you didn't hit a rail or rock? Post pics so we can see the damage and decide whether it was faulty construction or (more likely) faulty user error.
Dec 1 2008 8:15PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551
yeah, he has a completely legit point
Dec 1 2008 8:19PM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
Mine have MAD top sheet chipping, after one season with barely any park.
Dec 1 2008 8:21PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Click for larger image

its from my phone, but the edge was pulled out to the tail.  it happened on my second run slashing the side of a jump.  I hammered it back in and rode for the rest of the day.  it happened again on what was inevitably the last run.  Between the first and second time I would hammer it back in with my pole on the lift as it would come out a little bit each run.


Dec 1 2008 8:27PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
[/
Dec 1 2008 8:29PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3026/3032797921_25849e221d_o.jpg[/img

sorry about the multiple fails.
Dec 1 2008 8:30PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Ok, I am officially retarded.  Lets see if I can do this. . .

Click for larger image
Dec 1 2008 8:31PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704

I actually just read about their new topsheets that are designed to be as close to chip proof as possible.  You can choose which topsheet you want, glossy or chip resistant.  Same graphic, just a different finish.  It's a really great idea and I can't wait to see how it works out.

Dec 1 2008 8:41PM
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A-Style**
Posts: 1831 - Karma: 81
Click for larger image
Dec 1 2008 8:42PM
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Karcher
Posts: 3788 - Karma: 1,934
well since you used them the season prior thats not too bad
Dec 1 2008 8:57PM
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Envision
Posts: 49 - Karma: 10
well your not alone, i was offered these ski's for 400 bucks, his edge was ripped up like that as well, he ordered new ones and would replace them for me but i passed and im glad i did. picked up some armada pipe cleaners instead.
Dec 1 2008 10:13PM
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yeahitsdave
Posts: 1315 - Karma: 10
he said he didnt use the the season prior.

im sorry bro, the super dick of 4frnt not to even look at them for warranty. take them to a shope that carries 4frnt and have them look at them, and fight to send them back. we decided not to bring in 4frnt after their reps we're huge fucking assholes to me at the trade show. i thoroughly hoped that they didnt reflect the whole company, but from your experience, maybe they did.
Dec 1 2008 11:33PM
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Henry
Posts: 2013 - Karma: 41
damn that sucks. from the looks of that picture you would think that it's something that would be covered by warranty. the way the edge looks to have come out easily. that seems crazy to me considering how mine have held great all last season.

have you tried talking directly to 4frnt?


Dec 2 2008 1:08AM
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Henry
Posts: 2013 - Karma: 41
whoops, didn't read the part that you called them. how can your warranty be up if it was your first day on them?
Dec 2 2008 1:10AM
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BcPowderHunter
Posts: 275 - Karma: 13
read the first post. he had skied last season on them aswell.
Dec 2 2008 1:40AM
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kris.....
Posts: 759 - Karma: 43
i have skied on my 4frnts STLs for four seasons now and not yet have had a problem and i usually only hit rails..........you might have just gotten a bad ski.
Dec 2 2008 1:57AM
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DownhillDink
Posts: 129 - Karma: 11
do you wax your own skis? if you have the iron set too hot and hold it on the ski too long, the glue holding the edge can actually melt. not saying it isnt just poor construction but there has to be a reason
Dec 2 2008 2:01AM
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Big_Spence
Posts: 16177 - Karma: 4,352
hes right, but you have to seriously be a fucking idiot to leave an iron on for that long.
Dec 2 2008 2:06AM
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DownhillDink
Posts: 129 - Karma: 11
some people like to let the wax "sink in"
Dec 2 2008 2:08AM
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Silence
Posts: 16030 - Karma: 149
and these people that take it literally by holding an iron on there should be getting any tuning done by a shop
Dec 2 2008 2:35AM
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abek
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,587
I'm not speaking on behalf of the company, but merely as a bystander with a little bit of hopefully logical thinking.

First off - 4frnts warranties are to be carried out through a 4frnt dealer.  That's how it works and those are the instructions on the website.  Dunno if you tried contacting 4frnt directly or if you went to a dealer and had them send the stuff to 4frnt.

2nd - In a post where you say worst ski construction ever - the edge ripped out on my first run, gives a false impression.. they've been used for a whole year before that.  Okay, still, a year on skis and the edge ripped out?  Was it you that used the skis for a year? Or did you get them from someone else and didn't know the extent of the abuse that was done on them?

3rd - Alright so maybe you used the skis for the whole year, didn't do many rails or didn't hot wax them too long or whatever.  Maybe they are faulty.. okay, so that's pretty shitty.  Now think about this - you are one person with one pair of skis.  Let's pretend they are faulty.  You with your one pair comes on here and tells everyone to never buy a pair of 4frnts ever again.  Is your one pair really an accurate representation/good sample size of 4frnt's entire stock?  The fact of the matter is in any product and or production line there is a slight margin of error.. and assuming that you did not damage your skis in anyway that might cause that - sure it might be reasonable to assume that there may have been some production error.  That's crappy, yeah, but to try to tell the world that the construction sucks is a little absurd. 

You might say well i heard 3 other stories about something like this happening.. yeah, because 3 pissed off people are going to come on here and tell their story, while the other 3,000 are happily enjoying their skis and not thinking about creating a post called "My skis are holding up great!!!" 

So in conclusion - Yes, you could possibly be right - for your individual pair of skis - I wouldn't rule out that possibility.  And you can be rightfully annoyed.  But take a breath, go through the motions of contacting a shop, and think about what kind of message you send to the masses about your one pair of skis.  Think about the generalizations you make about a company from your one experience with your over a year old used skis.

I bought a loaf of bread from trader joes last week.  It molded 2 days after I got it.  I was pissed. I went back and got my money back - but I didn't send out a message telling everyone that trader joes is the worst bread maker ever. Their bread is actually pretty damn good


Dec 2 2008 2:57AM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10434 - Karma: 9,753
My threads
Dec 2 2008 3:17AM
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mcnamarskiez
Posts: 692 - Karma: 159
haha.....
Dec 2 2008 5:39AM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
"My question: Why did 4frnt skimp on the quality?"

The same reason anybody ever skimps on quality. to save $$$$$
Dec 2 2008 11:28AM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
1st - Ok, I bought the skis directly from 4frnt.  There are no local shops that carry 4frnt around here, so taking them to a shop is very difficult.

2nd - I attempted to clarify what had happened, I see that several people were confused and seem to be misled but it was the SECOND run of the season.  I rode them last season, but didnt do anything too rough on them, didnt bang rails on them or anything like that.  I am the only person who skiid on them last year, and know everything that they had gone through.

3rd - Yes it is shitty, but I have heard of other people having problems with the company.  And if I had a horrible experience I would like to let people know about it.  I know skis can have problems, I have warrentied skis before due to manufacturing error.  But the fact is that this was manufacturer error, and they still would have nothing to do with it.  I am not angry that the ski had an error.  Shit happens, I understand that not every ski is going to be made 100%, and I don't have a problem with that.  I have a problem with them not doing anything about it, and saying "too bad" to the fact that I spent 300$ on a pair of faulty skis. 

On top of that, the edge material they used is not the same as any other ski I have seen.  Take a look at any edge that isnt 4frnt.  Inside the ski it has T-like reinforcements that anchor the edge into the ski.  These did not have this, it was just a straight peice of metal.  This seems to be a little shady, and it pissed me off. 

So in conclusion, Yes, I am pissed off, Yes, it might be my specific skis, and Yes, I feel jipped.  I have no shop to contact,

THE INTENTION OF THIS THREAD WAS TO SEND A MESSAGE TO THE MASSES ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE IN HOPES TO SAVE OTHERS FROM THE SAME BAD EXPERIENCE. 

As a consumer I am able to make a generalization about a company based on my experience.  It is the only chance they had to make an impression on me, and they made a horrible one.  why would I give them a second chance when they are batting 1/1 on pissing me off?

And about your bread, everyone knows trader joes produce/bread sucks.  You don't buy bread from trader joes, of course its going to go bad.    And you got your money back.  If I had gotten my money back, or some sort of compensation for the ski, I would not have made this thread, I probobly would have made one about my good experience with the company.  That was a shitty analogy because you  got your money back, fuck you for rubbing it in my face.
\

/rant
Dec 2 2008 1:42PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Yes, I do wax my skis.  No, I am not an idiot. 


Dec 2 2008 1:46PM
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Salomonskier101
Posts: 410 - Karma: 44
all im sayin is 4frnts are fucking dope
Dec 2 2008 2:22PM
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shred666
Posts: 70 - Karma: 10
wow thats just crazy. sorry to hear that man. i think 4frnt just had a good rep for their graphics. havent heard anything really positive about the actual construction
Dec 2 2008 3:12PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10434 - Karma: 9,753
the thing I just don't get is the edge construction.  That just seems extremely strange to me.

I have never, ever seen an edge used that did not have edge flanges to anchor it in.  Without them the edge would just be extremely weak and have hardly anything to hold on to in the ski matrix.

can you get any better pictures of the edges close up because it definitely seems really, really strange to have that be the case.
Dec 2 2008 3:21PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
I will try.  I will go to the shop today after school and see if I can snag a few higher quality pictures of it.  I feel like an idiot for not doing it sooner.

It seemed extremely strange to me as well, especially for a 'freestyle' company. 

Even race skis I have had used the T anchor things.


Dec 2 2008 3:36PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10434 - Karma: 9,753
Man, I have cut apart a lot of different skis, have learned as much as I can about the ski construction of various ski companies, and obviously built a fair number of skis while doing the ON3P and have been busy talked to the two largest edge suppliers about getting edges for future pairs and I have never, not one time, ever heard of or even imagined an edge without the edge flange.  That is the part that just confuses me the most...

edge flanges are your friend...
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Dec 2 2008 3:44PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Dude, I know.  You obviously have more experience with them than I, but I am not a noob when it comes to looking at broken skis. . .  It was very weird! 

Now that I am in the market for new skis. . .  What are your park skis going for?  It would be sick to rock some ON3Ps at my local hill.  people would be baffled. 
Dec 2 2008 3:46PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10434 - Karma: 9,753
We still have awhile before anything can really be released to the public, so I would not expect it until next year.  So can't help you out too much right now, but hopefully soon.  From what I have heard thus far the park ski is pretty fun though. 
Dec 2 2008 3:53PM
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DrStrangelove
Posts: 1948 - Karma: 3
ive been riding my 06 STLs (the white ones with the topographical map of snowmass) for 2 years now, and im planning on riding them for at least the beginning of this season...theyre still holding up well and i beat the shit out of them, im gonna ride them until i make friends at my new home mountain who can get me a discount on something new
Dec 2 2008 4:00PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Click for larger image

Click for larger image

Here ya go
Dec 2 2008 5:48PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
Well, if you ever need someone to do product testing on Mt. Shasta, let me know, I suppose I could sacrifice some of my time to help you out.  ;-)
Dec 2 2008 5:51PM
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.Brink.
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 188
haha ironically my topsheet on mine delammed the first day i rode them, no rails, no jumps, just normal groomers, the were brand new, but they werent warrantiable because I bought them from a guy on here who won them in a comp.

pics:

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Dec 2 2008 5:53PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10434 - Karma: 9,753
hmm, strange.  it seems they do have some sort of section that serves the same function as the t-style edge flange, just never seen it before.
Dec 2 2008 5:54PM
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SHastatahoe
Posts: 3414 - Karma: 19
It is just flat.  When I was talking to the guys at the shop they said they thought it was an older edge that had been used, probably to cut costs. There is nothing used to anchor it in, just a 1cm flat piece. 
Dec 2 2008 6:01PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10434 - Karma: 9,753
it definitely is like nothing I have ever seen.


Dec 2 2008 6:03PM
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