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March, 2024

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Anyone For Romney?

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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
He seems like a good candidate and I dont think him being a mormon is a huge deal. John McCain is also another front runner except I disagree with a few of the things he stands for.
Dec 10 2007 8:11PM
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Ruski
Posts: 1872 - Karma: 11
^i think our political ideologies are similar, im with you on Romney and McCain
Dec 10 2007 8:13PM
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ShreddingthaGnar
Posts: 454 - Karma: 18
Fuckem both.
Dec 10 2007 8:20PM
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Alex_thedroog
Posts: 3433 - Karma: 2
hard
Dec 10 2007 8:56PM
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jimmer
Posts: 3586 - Karma: 80
NO WAY DOOD RON PAUL OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually like Huckabee alot.
Dec 10 2007 8:59PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
all i know about romney is that he hasnt failed at anything that i am aware of.
Dec 10 2007 9:02PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
google search ron paul and nazi.

Huckabees ok... have you seen his video with chuck norris?
Dec 10 2007 9:02PM
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snowforblood
Posts: 1861 - Karma: 16
google ass-to-mouth and scat porn
Dec 10 2007 9:04PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
except having a consistent stance on anything...
Dec 10 2007 9:05PM
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kabozo101
Posts: 4429 - Karma: 20
both of your two aren't doing that great right now.

im for Guliani and Huckabee
Dec 10 2007 9:06PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
Guilani did an awesome job in New York wiping out the crime rate and making it livable but hes for illegals which is just ridiculous
Dec 10 2007 9:08PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
No it isn't. They come to work the jobs that you, or anyone else for that matter, would ever dream of doing. Immigration law is broken.
Dec 10 2007 9:10PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
The fact that we're paying millions and miilions of dollars in taxes for them.

Look at this site:   http://www.house.gov/garymiller/IllegalsCost2005.html
Dec 10 2007 9:12PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
anything being... two things?
Dec 10 2007 9:14PM
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jimmychung
Posts: 6857 - Karma: 25
i haven't looked into romney too much, but i haven't met someone from massachusetts who has been terribly proud of him as governor.
Dec 10 2007 9:15PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
They take more out then they give in early on in their stays. Most immigrants arrive young and have children (most of them born on US soil, making them American citizens), meaning they tend to make less money and pay less taxes as younger people raising children.

However, native families also get more than they put in in their early years, while raising children. They too are a "burden", but the National Academy of Sciences concluded that native, and illegal immigrant, families end up more than making up for it as times goes by.

Pick up "The Politics of Immigration" by Guskin and Wilson. Point form book adressing myths about immigration.
Dec 10 2007 9:20PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Sure, one of them being the extremely partisan issue of abortion, where he flips and flops to get support, much like clinton has about the war. Then, there's immigration...

Also, he's arrogant, and insults the other candidates (pictures taken with Obama bashers, for example).
Dec 10 2007 9:23PM
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lt.milo
Posts: 1582 - Karma: 138
Guliani - trys to look good and would sacrifice the truth to do it.  just look at why he thinks 9/11 happened.  Hard to believe he is a republican with his gay-marriage and abortion policies

romney- not that bad, would help the economy but he flip-flops a lot, hard to trust.  could care less that he is mormon.

huckabee- honest but has some stupid policies (IMO) and he runs by being Christian, he should stop relying on that

mccain - i thought he knew a lot about our war situation until i saw this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06hR2EGpl4o
seems like a George Bush repeat

Thompson: do i need to say anything?

Ron Paul- pretty extreme ideas but good if you agree with them, flawless voting record

Tancredo and the rest: doesn't matter


basically the GOP right there


Dec 10 2007 9:23PM
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ScrappyJoeYoung
Posts: 1407 - Karma: 1,277
very very hard, in the ass
Dec 10 2007 9:24PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
Ok but what about all the criminals that are coming in... and our way of life is having to change so much everything has to be said in spanish now as well as english. When my school which is in the middle of no where in washington we have to do the morning announcements in english and then again in spanish for like 12 spanish students who can barely speak a word of english
Dec 10 2007 9:24PM
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Parkboy
Posts: 2303 - Karma: 32
HELL NO.  if romney, giuluani, or mcain become president i'm leaving the fucking country.
Dec 10 2007 9:26PM
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Utahpowderskier
Posts: 1336 - Karma: 14
why?
Dec 10 2007 9:30PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
It isn't like the people who cross the boarder are vicious criminals from the start. They come here for the same reasons anyone has ever come here: to get a better life, to work, to make money and provide for their families.

When they get here, inequalities and terrible poverty force people into criminality. This criminality is the same before they got here. It has to do with glass ceilings of race and origin. Besides, our borders as they are, with all the security, don't keep the drugs and the true criminals out. Those who are here to WORK, though illegal, should be allowed to stay.

Now, when it comes to spanish, i think the government is going at this the wrong way. They should be investing in schools for immigrants to learn english (much like SFE in sweden, which guarantees education in the native tongue to help immigrants integrate), not have bilingual education everywhere. However, hispanics tend to be invisible to employers, and their needs are not met. They want to work, and they tend to be put in dire situations because of the inadequacy of the system in providing the eduacxtion they need to get out of menial labor. There are provisions in the law that are meant to keep national origin from serving to discriminate against hispanics, but language is not equated with national origin, so nothing is done.

Teach your classmates english, get someone to do it. Then you won't have to hear spanish, AND they will have a shot at a better life.
Dec 10 2007 9:33PM
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lt.milo
Posts: 1582 - Karma: 138
not so much romney, but guliani or mcaine, good call.
Dec 10 2007 9:35PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
What about the drug dealers? and what about the 70 or so border patrollers that have been kidnapped? Many of these people are vicious criminals.

I'm all infavor of them coming into america as long as they do it the legal way.
Theodore Roosevelt set a bunch of rules and shit for immigrants that all of our fore fathers went by. The number one thing was that they had to conform to our way of living and the illegals for the most part haven't been doing that.
Dec 10 2007 9:39PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
We're not talking about the same people. When i talk about illegal immigrants, I talk about the people who have crossed the boarder illegally to start a family, get a job and make something for themselves ever since things like NAFTA effed them in the a.

YOU are talking about the illegal immigrants whose parctices would still be illegal regardless of the the ststaus of their citizenship and residence. Of all the people in your dining hall, the people who clean your hotel rooms, chances are the majority are either illegal or about to be if they overstay their visas.

The legal way to get in is broken. The laws are inherently discriminatory and intent on keeping immigrants out of the country. The first immigration law of the land was slavery. There were laws that kept immigrants from Europe to come here during the Holocaust, to keep them from cutting in line. Thousands died because of this.

Did you know that Cubans can get a "green" card merely by setting foot in the USA? why can't other immigrants do the same thing? Haitians were intercepted by the Coast Guard when there was war in their country (largely caused by us) by Bush Sr and returned to Haiti, even when they were refugees.

Immigration law is far from just. You think that people would risk their lives across deserts and oceans if there were legal pathways for them to do? People who applied for visas in the 70s are only getting them now... The system is broken, but we have no qualms exploiting them in menial jobs for no pay, do we?

And as for assimilation, see what i already said. There is no way for them TO assimilate.
Dec 10 2007 9:49PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
First of all the reason our government wants people to stay in Mexico is so that they can try to help them out economically instead of coming here and leaving mexico a big pile of crap.

And I see no difference in illegals they broke our laws and take away jobs from many hard working americans which is not fair to us.

Secondly Cubans are allowed citizen ship because they are trying to escape to corrupt ruling of castro who is the biggest douche. Mexicans are only coming over here because it is easier to make money...they just dont want to put any effort in their own country.
Dec 10 2007 9:56PM
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lt.milo
Posts: 1582 - Karma: 138
i think that the main thing that is always left out of these debates is:  how can we resolve this issue while still recognizing the immigrants and treating them like people?  This is what it should all boil down to.  What if we were in their shoes?  We need to do something to stop them, but we can't come across as making them just numbers.  I am personally a Ron Paul supporter but I really disagree with him on this issue.
Dec 10 2007 10:01PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
If we're not gonna send them back then we should quit offering free health care and education we need to encourage them to go back to Mexico.
Dec 10 2007 10:03PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
at this point Romney will have my vote....
Dec 10 2007 10:20PM
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Microcosm
Posts: 4765 - Karma: 153
is Romney the one who doesn't like atheists?
either way, I'd never vote for him.
Dec 10 2007 10:24PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
No, they want them to stay so that we don't have to deal with them. Whenever a country tries to improve their situation and it doesn't please us, we tend to intervene, like in Nicaragua. With Mexico, we started NAFTA under the assumption of their neo-liberal economic model which caused the peso to collapse and created massive unemployment. Clinton had to bail them out for 49 billion dollars, and NAFTA continues to screw their country over. Mexico very much appreciates the dollars being sent back.

They may have broken laws, but they aren't criminals. Rosa Parks broke the law, but history vindicated her. Immigration laws are racist and unjust. By the way, while crossing the border maybe illegal, living and working here is a civil infraction. That's to say that according to the law, it's tantamount to jaywalking.

Now, that they take our jobs? Sorry bro, they're offered the jobs, for less pay, and under worse conditions, than what the average american would demand. Also, if you lose out to immigrants who work better and faster than you, for less pay and under worse conditions, that'd be the market for you. Everyone should have to be paid the same, leaving everyone to fight fairly for jobs. This isn't the case. Also, the Alexis de Toqueville Institution, a conservative group, concluded that immigrants produce as many jobs as they "take". Because many of them are young and have families, they spend their money on clothes and foodstuffs, which are labor intensive goods, creating employment.

Cubans are allowed preferential treatment because the policies were enacted to undermine Castro's rule, not because we actually think that all Cubans be given refugee status. As i've said, the US has been shady about that.

Yes, it IS easier to make money here... because NAFTA has stripped millions of farmers from their livelihoods, the neo-liberal model endorsed by the US caused an economic recession to get worse, and the US has jobs to offer with a huge economy.

Think about it, you have a family to care for, do you stay in your country where there is no hope in sight because a nation to your north has you by the balls, or do you go where the jobs and money are, to take care of your family?
Dec 10 2007 10:36PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Many of them WANT to go back to Mexico. But if they did, they wouldn't be able to come back to work if they needed to. If we wanted them out, we'd get rid of NAFTA...
Dec 10 2007 10:37PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
So what do we say to the mexicans who had the patience and waited for citizenship. Oh well sucks to be you you decided to do things the legal way. It just seems unjust to the people who filed for citizenship and have become legal citizens.
Dec 10 2007 10:45PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
Except the majority of the people waiting in line fully understand their compatriots in their endeavor.

The way you get in legally is simple. You pay for the process. You look refined, not poor or desperate. You pass the test. You take the interviews, and make sure you look sophisticated (the whiter your skin the better), and hope you don't come across a jerk along the way who simply denies just cuz. Then you wait for a decade or so (unless you have money), and then you can get in! Weee! Great right?

So what happens if you look poor, have a thick accent, are very brown skinned, seem desperate, piss someone off along the way, can't pay enough to get your visa quickly, can't pass the test that many highschool students couldn't pass here, and can't wait a few decades until you die?
Dec 10 2007 10:50PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
I really dont think our government would run that way. That sounds so corrupt...
Dec 10 2007 10:53PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
In terms of immigration, yeh. Globalization makes cheap, expendable and vulnerable labor a must have, and illegals are exactly what Wal Mart and others need.

It isn't like the government as a hole is actively trying to keep them out, but the laws are indeed working that way, and the idea is pervasive.

Read the book i mentioned. It's an eye opener. I thought much the same as you until i worked with illegals this summer and learned bout their lives.
Dec 10 2007 10:56PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
Well i'll definitly read it but I  tend to think like michael savage ha once my mind is set it usually stays set
Dec 10 2007 10:58PM
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almostaskier
Posts: 13809 - Karma: 93
It's a great read. It asks common questions, and answers them succinctly.
Dec 10 2007 11:03PM
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Merozoite
Posts: 21 - Karma: 10
What the hell dude?! First of all, when it comes to health care immigrants are no different than any other uninsured, low to middle class American family without health insurance. Like anyone else without health coverage, illegal immigrants are reluctant (perhaps even more so, since they don't want to be caught as 'illegals') to go to the doctor when they get sick. Instead they wait until they are extremely ill before seeking medical attention. Hospitals are required by law to provide treatment, whether the patient is insured or not, however that does not mean it is cost free. They still have to pay hospital bills. There are even several hospitals in Texas that have reported the illegal immigrants they've treated had better payment records than other uninsured patients that are citizens.
Secondly, public school is free for everyone. It's not just some special luxury set aside for immigrants.
Dec 10 2007 11:04PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Wait, people take him seriously? His show's so fucking ridiculous it makes the Colbert report a serious right leaning newscast
Dec 10 2007 11:04PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 372
i like obama or hillary
Dec 10 2007 11:06PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
His views can be very extreme but hes very informational everything he tells you is the truth he can back up anything he says
Dec 10 2007 11:07PM
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JaphyRyder
Posts: 1766 - Karma: 113
obama son
Dec 10 2007 11:12PM
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Merozoite
Posts: 21 - Karma: 10
Again, bull shit.
Many immigrants, when they arrive, obtain a tax payer ID card (it does not require a social security number) so they can have taxes withdrawn from their paychecks. Illegal immigrants contribute about seven billion dollars each year in taxes. This is actually beneficial to the American economy. There are more people drawing from social security right now than are paying into it, so the revenue is needed.
If anything is a waste of tax dollars, it'll be building a three hundred and seventy foot chain link fence to "keep the immigrants out."


Aaand--just for the irony of it--I'd like to point out that the Farm Bill (it's a controversial Bill that allows U.S. farmers to receive subsidies for crops such as corn, wheat, cotton, soy, and rice) plays a pretty big role in the immigration controversy. American farmers sell very low- priced products to other countries, this acts as competition for the local farmers in the other countries. Our shipping inexpensive corn to Mexico has put many farmers out of work. Because they have no job, they often immigrate to America in search of work. Since we are putting many Mexicans out of work, perhaps we should be more sympathetic to their plight.
Dec 10 2007 11:26PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
So thats bullshit? God damn government i'm tired of their lying.
Dec 10 2007 11:29PM
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Merozoite
Posts: 21 - Karma: 10
Also...to answer the original question-- I'm definitely rooting for Obama.
Dec 10 2007 11:30PM
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Runnie_D
Posts: 743 - Karma: 31
You would.
Dec 10 2007 11:31PM
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Merozoite
Posts: 21 - Karma: 10
Why yes, yes I believe it is a bunch of bull shit. I think we need to ask ourselves; are illegal immigrants really “stealing” jobs from American citizens, are illegal immigrants really sucking money out of our economy, are illegal immigrants really causing us to pay more taxes? I think that is mostly exaggerated propaganda fed to us by the government. People from other countries,  Canada for example, can come to America and get jobs; however one never hears anything about “those damn Canadians stealing our work.” It doesn’t make sense that Mexican immigrants are being targeted simply because they are with out paper work. Quite honestly I have not found a viable reason for the government to be so anti-immigrant.

Dec 10 2007 11:35PM
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Delphi
Posts: 3748 - Karma: 36
dude i agree, havent read many of the posts, but i have an opinion on immigration. Its bad. why the fuck should we pay higher taxes to give illegals subsidized tuition and housing rates. That shit isnt available for US veterans, so why the fuck are we giving it to people who dont belong here.
Dec 10 2007 11:38PM
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Merozoite
Posts: 21 - Karma: 10
Maybe you should read some of the posts then.
Dec 10 2007 11:41PM
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