Pontoon or ANT

im not sure but i think it should be pontoon vs. arg man but if you get super amounts of snow either will be fine

mate, you are not gonna need toons in les3vallees, or anywhere in the alps for that matter, judging on last few seasons. i'm in the same position as you- looking to buy a new big mountain ski (i ski tignes/vald'isere/la grave). i was thinking about ants or 190 ehps then i remembered this past season and remembered fairly few days with really good pow. (don't get me wrong, there were some, just not enough to justify toons etc). as such, i'd look into a more versatile ski that still kills it when its on, but is still fun when it isn't (i.e. 189 seths, 186 prophet 100s, 185 scratch brigades/bcs...maybe you could get away with ants, but not pontoons)

sorry for disobeying your instructions, but the idea is better than the reality owning toons and the like in the alps.

oh, and one last thing: you can do better than the 3 valleys...

^ Bro, i didn't mention it but i ski NZ in the summer aswell. Heli skiing therefore has to be considered...
Well, seeing how i've done seasons in Val D'siere, paradi ski, and grew up in Chamonaix aswell as skiing all over the world, i happen to be mates with the moon park fellas and just enjoy the area, i don't go to Val D to score cheap hoes, or spunge of my parents credit card. i know 3val ain't super but it's somewhere different, variety is the spice of life afterall.

Seeing how i all ready own last years BCs and a delapidated pair of Seths, i am after a powder stick, hence why i stated that i was after one.
Sorry to flair on you, but ain't the most positive person ever.

You are kind of liminting yourself here.

There are much better skis out there.

My suggestion....192 DP Lotus 120.  Can handle piste well, is super light, easy to ski in trees, but long enough to float and handle speed.

Ants aren't really pow skis.  They are more of an everyday-charging ski.

But sense you are not taking recs....

Go with the ANTs and mount -9.

Much more versatile. 

ANTs are more durable too.

I know at least 5 people who had to warranty their toons last season from delams that happened really quick. Luckily K2 is good at warranties.

Between those 2, I would go ants.

If they ONLY got used in soft snow and pow, maybe you could get by with toons. But once it gets choppy they start to suck.

Why is it limited to those two skis?

I'm open to reccommendations man, that dude just gound my gears...

I dunno why it's limited to these 2, they're fairly well priced round where i am at the moment and, although they are very different skis individually, they are both great skis.

i love the Armada, have used it a couple of times, but found it hella stiff, possibly too stiff for what i want. Although carving big turns is sweet, technical is good too. So maybe JvJ, but i can't get this at a good price.

The pontoon intrigues me, the whole rocker design. the manouverability it claims to have, and the possible fun that it would allow.

i know i'm not helping myself by just giving myself 2options but these are the 2available to me that excite me.
Cheers for the view

hey

what is your price range?  Give me that I will write up a nice little sumamry of a bunch of skis.

have you checked out moment?

www.momentskis.com

I would seriously look at the Comi too.  Great skis, great construction, everyone who has been on them loves them and says they are just awesome, even on-piste.

but yeah, price range and I can go from there

I am talking pure pow by the way, nothing else

ok, fair enough. but as iggy said, the two are very different and neither sound like what yr really looking for. whats the budget here? maybe look at birdos www.birdos.com for some really sick but expensive fatties- i can vouch for their brilliance. if you can deal with the somewhat alternative graphics, many people are going crazy about the new scratch steezes, and if they're good enough for sage in ak...well enough said.

as for yr comments about val, i think they're well wide of the mark, particularly in comparison to meribel or courchevel... but hey thats just me.

Well as cheap as possible have found the pontoon for $479 and the ANT for $500, thas why i was quite taken by them

But I am willing to spend more if i can find summat suitable.

Cheers for the help fella

o and sorry the last few comments were made while i was writing that post

Pardon?

Ok.  One last question.

Are you looking for a traditional pow ski or one with reverse sidecut?

all comments between yur second post and my second one were posted while i was writing so some of what i said may be irrelevant

rasta, thas cool man, no worries, cheers for the input.

Iggy, i don't mind man, the whole reverse sidecut/rocker/new styley really makes me wonder whether they're worth it, and people have told me they're hella fun.

On the other hand, all i know is regular sidecut skis, such as the Scratch BC, MSP and Seth.

i am basically after a ski with a lot more float as i'm gonna be doing some heli in Italy and NZ.

I gotta open mind... Fill it

dude if your familiar with the scratch bcs, i think steezes would be a great choice for pure pow and they won't break the bank either.

all of your post was irrelevant.

why would you say that, particualrly when you ski pes and invaders, which hardly qualify you in this category.

Because if he has researched and looked into what he skis, he has chosen 2 skis that he thinks will suit his specific needs. He said earlier that he didnt want to spend alot, evevn before your post was made so you mentioned skis that were out of his price range and skis that alot of people have never heard of. Scratch steeze's are not in this category and just because sage rides them here and there does not justify a reason to buy them.

and dont think i dont know anything because of the skis i ride.

i like you, but not in a strange way

nicee

i should say, i'm also headed Canada ways for the 08/09 season so want summat that'll hold up over there too. I don't expect to use it too much in Europe, maybe 10days or summat.

Pontoon

pontoons are soooo not versatile.  i've skied them and they're kinda crazy on most every snow condition but deep pow.  and they're unbelieveably soft.  not cool.  i own a pair of ants and i love them.  they're off the charts.  they hold a good edge on hardpack, charge crud, surf pow, and are relativeley easy to maneuver in the trees.  they're a super strong pair of skis that absolutely own in the vast majority of situations.  i'd definitely advise the ant over the pontoon.  maybe a more realistic side by side should be between the ant and the jj. 

I don't buy the fact that you can get ANT's any cheaper than JJ's. I find more deals on JJ's far. If you are looking for just a pow stick I would recommend the JJ over the ANT. It is softer, and has less sidecut, and is super light. In other words, they shred in powder for a traditional ski. Hardpack they kinda suck, so if you want more versatility the ANT would be a better choice, but you said pure powder so go JJ.

Scott, why don't you just sell the guy some thirteenth and proctors and get it over with. Solve his problem right now.

could always do that too.

To the kid who made the thread, sorry been busy in my research lab.

When I get sometime I will actually write up a post. 

dude if your gunna straight up charge get the ANT..

ANT
Ultra-light core, really helps getting techy and shredd'n the trees, plenty stiff to open it up on the bowls and fat under foot, (106) and straight, also easier to take on hard pack

The ARG's would also be a good ski to look at.

I have decided against the pontoon and that style of ski, such as the ARG.

So, i am now looking at the ANT or summat similar, anything from the JJ to the VCT/EHP...

So suggestions are welcome...

Cheers for the input so far though.

um, i don't know what category other than pure powder you think steezes fit into, perhaps you'd care to enlighten us which category they are in fact in...
oh and i wish you luck finding any reviews that arent crazy about them, try tgr for that.

and you not having heard of birdos merely demonstrates your ignorance. they are in fact some of the best fatties one can buy. don't use the fact that they are a european brand as an excuse either, any european into big mountain will have heard of kingswood or igneous.

in conclusion then, steezes would be as good as jps, ehps et al...

Where the fuck do you get off?

You are a fruit loop. Back off this kid, and the thread for that matter...

If you are looking for a pow only ski, I would seriously consider the ARG, Lotus, Praxis, etc, as they honestly fucking rock.  Even if you aren’t going reverse sidecut, get something fatter than a ANT or JJ.  At least 110 in the waist. 

I said I would write something up, and since I’ve been slacking, I will make it good.

Ok….

Reverse Camber Skis

Praxis - $699 (shitty cause they just had a deal where you could get them for $400)

195 cm 124,136,131

185 cm 124,136,131

Go with the 195.  Full rocker throughout the entire ski (think spats) so they will ski much shorter than you think.  I also believe that Keith may be measuring the flat base material length at 185cm, because everyone who has the 185cm ones says they are really like a 182cm (due to the curve in the tip of tail).  UHMW sidewalls (better than ABS), full 360 degree wrap (pretty damn thick edge too).  I wanna say an aspen core, but not 100%......

Basically everyone who has skied them has said they are like the spats, only much lighter, no metal to bend, and are better on hardpack.

O…and you get to choose your own graphics from 4-5 different sick topsheets.

www.praxisskis.com

Armada ARG

185 cm – 125/135/133/134/120

Everyone seems to really dig these.  They are a cap construction.  1.7mm thick edges.  There are a few people on here you could PM to ask questions about them (Veteran).  Personally, I think if you are going with a ski with any rocker you need to be on at least a 190cm at 6’.  If these were 195s, you could be in business.

DP Skis Lotus 138 - $910 for this years, $650 for last years

192cm 140/138/139

If I could buy any pow ski in the world, this would be it.  Carbon Construction, new ones have bamboo sidewalls, just super light, super sick skis.  Everyone who tried them seems to think they are the best skis they’ve ever been on.  Last years model is discounted because they had topsheet chipping problems, which you could personally decreases slightly be beveling the topsheet with a razor and file.  But the skis themselves, beside the topsheet chips, would be awesome.  If you want to read lots of reviews, go to www.tetongravity.com/forums and search for the lotus 138. 

Also check out www.dpskis.com

Those would be the top 3 reverse sidecut skis I would look at.  K2 has the toons too, then you get get Volant spatulas for pretty cheap, look into getting a G-Funkenstein from capital (like a 155mm waist).

Normal Sidecut

The skis I would consider would probably be:

DP Skis Lotus 120 (first choice if you want something more versatile)

Moment Comi (Pretty much right up there with the DP)

It honestly sounds like the DP would be out of your price range at around $900. If you want to know more, check the website or shoot me a PM.

If you want a sick ski, that is gonna be awesome in powder, is pretty affordable (consider it is handmade in the USA), has great materials, and is more than capable of skiing piste stuff, get the Moment Comi.

$600 brand new.  186cm 160/136/145.  Full Twin.  Aspen core, thick race base + edges, 22oz fiberglass, etc, etc.  These skis just fucking rock.

Again, lots of reviews on www.tetongravity.com/forums

A lot of guys over there love them even on hardpack.  If you want to get a traditional sidecut ski, I would get this one.  It is gonna be fat enough that float, will never have issues in the tips like the ants will, but will still be able to go anywhere.

www.momentskis.com

They have a store you can order them from there too.  You can always email them with any questions.

All these skis are gonna be so much better in pow than the ANTs, and it seems like you have other skis to handle more hardpack days.  I think if you get the comis, you’ll find you start taking them out more and more.

Hope that helped.  I could keep commenting on more skis.  Personally, the JJ or ANTs are not really pow skis.  Just everyday skis.

Get something fat.

^ wow, u should charge for that kind of insight

What problems is ot that they have?

Also, that was a frickin sweet reply cheers man, a lot of useful things there, and will open my mind a hell of a lot more.

i don't mind spending 900, i just thought the ANT would be sweet for the cash... Cheers man.

Seriously those Praxis skis are dope. I might have to get those.

In terms of mounting. On the ANT the suggested mount point is like 4from center i think, what would it be on those, i assume center cos of the mad float?

Cheers

Ants are pretty stiff skis. Great everyday skis for someone who charges.

But they don't float extremely well.  If you get them, mount at -9.  Even there, you will expenience some tip dive in certain situations.  You do have it going for you that you are a pretty light kid (160) but again.....these are pow skis.  Get some fucking pow skis.

If you honestly don't mind spending money......

haha now this gets more complicated.

Skis I would consider:
Reverse Sidecut:
185 Arg
185/195 Praxis
192 DP Lotus 138 ($910 for the new ones, and the best pow ski on here)

also go to www.capitalskis.com and check out the slash. Crazy new ski.

Normal Sidecut:
Igneous FFF (flat tail, best constructed skis in the world IMO, 145/118/125, wood veneer topsheet, hefty price tag ($1200))
DP Skis Lotus 120 - 192 cm, carbon, 140/120/125, very light, gonna still do well on hardpack, pretty good float in the pow, have a longer tip to increase float, would make a great touring ski.
Moment Comi - as stated above, awesome, and probably the most affordable ski on here.
Kingswood Megafat or Fat - Bamboo cores (and sidewalls on the mega), carbon + fiberglass blend, full wrap edges, super poppy.  I had a pair of midfats and loved them.  I am using a bamboo core in the skis I make because of how much I liked the Kwoods.
Mega 185 cm 174/146/159
Fat 185cm 144/120/134

www.capitalskis.com
www.momentskis.com
www.dpskis.com
www.igneousskis.com
www.praxisskis.com
www.kingswoodskis.com

these sites will have tons of info for you to go thru.

You need to basically decide the following:
1) Reverse sidecut or Tradition sidecut?
Reverse is going to allow you to pivot super easily (great in trees), throw the skis around however you want, going to destory crud, and basically allow you to make any shape turn you want.  Most can handle hardpack without much issue.  You will learn how to slide on it.
Tradition sidecut is going to lock you into a turn much more.  If you really like the high speed carving feel, you will like these more.  Won't be as playful, but still going to be awesome.  Will be better on hardpack.

2) Twin, no twin: Igneous is a flat tail, so that may put it out of the running.

3) Construction: basically, full carbon vs. no carbon?
The DP skis are full carbon, no fiberglass.  Basically, extremely light.  Much much lighter than any of the other skis listed.  Some people don't like that.  But the skis are stiff enough that it really isn't a powder.  Cost is pretty high ($910) but the skis, particularly the lotus 138, are worth it.  Actually, IMO the cost for every ski listed here is justified.  The carbon skis are going to be pretty responsive too. 
The normal fiberglass (and sometimes carbon mix) skis are going to obviously be heavier.  Some will still be very poppy (bamboo and aspen = still very poppy cores) and some people prefer the feeling of a heavier ski. I have seen one person complain that they felt the lotus did sometimes get tossed around a bit because it was so heavy.  But others have said it blows thru anything (as long as it is soft).

So yeah, if you want a reverse sidecut ski, with carbon get the lotus 138.  Normal construction, I would get the Praxis (go 195cm).

If you want a normal sidecut ski, with carbon get the lotus 120.  Normal construction, I would get the Igneous FFF or the Moment Comi (and the iggy is 2x the price of the moment).

So yeah, think about what you really want in the ski, how much time you are gonna be spending on hardpack vs soft snow on the days you'll be using them, how much time in the trees, weight, money, etc....and go from there.

you can PM to clarify anything.

My top two choice, for you, would be the Moment comi or the Lotus 138.  And like I said, go fat. Fuck this pussy shit.  Those are 136 and 138 in the waist.  Now have fun passing by everyone else.

On the praxis there is a reccomended mounting point determined thru lots of testing.  same on the DPs and the comis.  I would trust the guys who make the skis and dont mess with the mount.

And on the praxis, because of the reverse camber the mount is going to be more foward, although I dont believe it is actually core center.

The jjs would be a good ski too. They are a super fun ski in pow and are great in trees as well.. Pluse they are amazing for bc booters.

 i read up to about half of the replies where you said you were worried armada is to stiff.

i have rode my ants for 1 day. ONE. at the end of last season, on ONTARIO. Im 6'1, 160 pounds, so the same size as you, and let me tell you about how i was pressing these monsters. I have the current years model 06/07 and they are noticeably stiffer then the 05/06 ones. That is one of the big reasons i chose them over the others. They still charge like fuck, but if you throw your weight on them you can do a bit of damage thats for sure.  Oh and about the ski not being a pow ski, well, i rode them in groomed slush. haha i just wanted to get out on them and they charge man... i could get some decent short rad. turns down so they work as an all mtn ski if you need them too.

i just loved them man.

oh , i dont know about trees though, on either.

I thought they made the tip of the 06/07 softer than the 05/06. You have it backwards i think.

Dude this was a great read and research, what is your take on the Hellbents out of curiousity?

i agree with iggy. moment comis or if you wanted something bigger you could even go comi-kazi. in your situation i would get the comis though. line ep pros would also be a good candidate, but again i would take the moments..

If you people have picked up on all the wisdom that Scott is dropping, you will realize that it would be tantamount to driving an iron rod through your skull to not buy some thirteenth and proctors when they come out.

Hellbents are pretty sweet.  I wish the construction was better, as I hate caps, but K2 is good with their warranty.

IMO they are in a slightly different category than the skis listed above though.  While hellbents are gonna be pretty good in powder, they are so fucking soft that I feel their cut-up snow abilities won't be as good as say a moment comi or lotus.  I am sure more people could comment on this, but that would be what I would expect.

Have you got to flex them?  Super floppy and soft.  I think that skis like the Hellbent and EP Pros are going to be great for people looking for a ski that can ski pow pretty well, handle hardpack enough to get down the mountain, and kick ass on bc jumps.  But you are not gonna be hard charging down huge faces on those skis (well...you could, but I wouldn't).

To me, these are really more jibby, BC jump oriented fat skis.

Everything listed above it more of a go fast, big turns, pow oriented ski.

Just look at the turn radius of everything listed.  The hellbent is low 20's and the comis are low 30's.  The FFF is about 40 I believe.  Kwood sadly decreased their turn radius in their new skis (not the mega though) but they are still fairly high.

So yeah, I think the hellbent looks pretty cool.  Personally, I am not a BC-jibby kind of guy.  My favorite skis ever are 190 Igneous FFFs.  Flat tail, stiff, 145/118/125.   I designed my ideal everyday PNW ski, and it is a 191cm full twin with tip rocker only, 141/113/128.

The majority of kids on here are more interested in the turny, fatter jib oriented skis.  For them, the EP Pro and hellbent will be sick.

For people looking for a more big mountain oriented ski, I think there are much better options. 

Hope that helps.

Just gonna throw this out there: you might consider looking at the new Katana as well. The gotama is just a great all around and I think the katana might have some of those characteristics with better pow performance. some people kind of overlook Volkl sometimes, when in reality their skis are really dope.

The katana looks rorty as hell. Think a fatter Gotama with a quasi-swallowtail (powder channel). It could be an epic ski, though i've never ridden it.

What are your thoughts on the Katana Scott?

Alex skied them and said he liked them.  He was disappointed in their hardpack performance I bit a believe, due to the completely flat camber.  If this kid is looking for a pow only ski, this doesn't seem like a huge problem to me.  I think it is cool they are incorporating the powder channels, but it will be a bit before we really see if they are truly effective.

I'm gonna have a done of demoing I am gonna have to get done on my own skis this season, but it would be fun to get out more on these newer fatter sticks and see how they are.

This would be a more mainline consumner ski oriented for pow only.  Volkl makes pretty decent skis and are usually pretty good with their warranty.

Cost wise, I believe it will probably cost him the same as the Comis, so I would just go with the moments, personally. 

Aa lot of people have liked the sanouk over the past few seasons.  The katanas are just gonna be a fatter, stiffer, more burly sanouk with different technology on the tail.  IMO, this is a good thing.  Sanouks were fun slashy carvy skis, but a bit floppy as their tips were so long and soft.  The katanas should be more stable in a big mountain arena.



The one ski, shocking to hear me say this, that is super interesting next year is the sally rocker.  That ski is gonna fuck shit up.  Sally finally did something right.  I think 127 in the waist. Sweeet.

I should note that my personal opinion on camber, unless it is a ski designed to spend 50% of the time going switch (think melee or another BC jump oriented ski), is that tip rocker is the shit, and tail rocker sucks balls.  I don't need my tails to float.  I need my tails to be stiff and support me, whether it be going fast or dropping cliffs.  Tail rocker is counterproductive to these things.

In a BC jump ski, or some where you will be doing jibby creative shit off cliffs, it is great. 

In a big mountain pow ski, it is stupid.  Tip rocker is the way to go.  It already shortens the running length so much, when add to that with tail rocker?

Ok, back to the skis.... the cost of these skis(rocker, katana) is still going to be fairly high in their first year of introduction unless the kid can proform/shopform them.

For the cost, the Comis are a ridiclous deal.  I think that is the best combo of price, construction quality, and kick ass ski design.

mmmmmmmmm that sounds tasty. but yeah what Scott said about rockerd tails. If you are really looking for a charging ski a tail rocker will only reduce stablity. One thing i am wondering is what are your thoughts on the 4frnt EHP 195 I have not heard much of anything on these sticks. but they are 130.112.118 and a 40+ turn radius.