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March, 2024

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HV20 vs GL1

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*Fujative*
Posts: 8554 - Karma: 183
here we go again. Im now thinking of getting the hv20 becasue its HD. granted it doesnt look  as badass as a gl, with a cmos sensor and i could get one brand new for about 650. i think im going for that.
Jun 11 2007 10:14AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
ok wait...

your debating between a soccer mom camera and a prosumer camera? gl2 man
Jun 11 2007 10:26AM
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*Fujative*
Posts: 8554 - Karma: 183
haha. the main thing is money. im a college kid with not a lot of it.
Jun 11 2007 10:33AM
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TimothyLord
Posts: 2114 - Karma: 568

gl1

Jun 11 2007 11:14AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
try a trv900 theyre fuckin amazing for their price. good steady 3chip camera with many of the features the gl2 has. it even shoots low light better than the gl2. you can get one for $700-$900 on ebay
Jun 11 2007 11:38AM
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Galin
Posts: 2342 - Karma: 3,940
he's not even talking about a gl2, just a gl1. Im gunna go and say dont go with the gl1, there are soooo many better options now. The panasonic gs series is cheap and gets pretty sick image quality. My gs300 shoots better than a gl1 and it retails for like 400 or 500. You can get it for a lot cheaper. The newer gs series is pretty bad for manual control but the older ones in the gs series have good manual controls i hear, a little more expensive though. Basically in general panasonic has been offering up some pretty high quality cheap cameras. The fact that they dont have much manual features doesnt seem like it will bother you much seeing as you were considering the hv20, which has very little manual control and what it does have it really dumbed down. Another option if you do want manual control but want something cheap, around 500 or 600 on ebay is the panasonic pv dv953. Really sick looking camera, i havent actually used it but from reviews i hear its pretty sick, shoots just as good as a gl2 if you use it right.
Jun 11 2007 12:45PM
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ProducerXXX
Posts: 1776 - Karma: 13
Just a thought- if you buy the GL1 it definitely won't have a warranty (I bought one off NS and it arrived DOA...I was pissed), and if you buy the HV20 (new, I assume) it will have a warranty.
Jun 11 2007 2:13PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
get a vx1000 for like 900 its way better than a gl1 could ever be.
Jun 11 2007 5:53PM
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CamBrowne
Posts: 1830 - Karma: 99
oh to start it off the HV20 is not really HD and even if it was it would be pointless because there are not many HD screen u can have so the quality of the video would always bee brought down.

i was u i would get the trv900 because it is 3ccd and it has manual function and u can get a baby death lens for it (a really nice fisheye lens)
Its relitivly inexspensive for wat it is.

The vx1000 like the one guy sugested b4 has the prolly some of the best audio and colours u can get on a camera. it is also cheap but this is becasue it is fairly old and so there will be no warrenties and it will be harder to fix if it breaks. and it also DOES NOT have a lcd screen (the pop out screen on the camera)

If you want to become a better filmer you should get a camera with the most manual settings as possible (white balance, audio ect.)

IF you want to find out more information about cameras go to www.skateperception.com or www.snowperception.com they are both very good sites (snowperection.com doesnt have many members yet so join and make new threads)
Jun 11 2007 9:01PM
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CamBrowne
Posts: 1830 - Karma: 99
oh and if u have to get one of the two i would get the GL1
Jun 11 2007 9:08PM
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Geoff.
Posts: 2378 - Karma: 12
idk man, the gl1 is petty old. the hv20 is newer, HDV (kind of a gimmick), but more importantly true 24p. and it has decent manual control, with custom presets and what not. if it wree only between those 2 cams i would get the hv20
Jun 11 2007 9:27PM
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*Fujative*
Posts: 8554 - Karma: 183
thanks everybody. im going with the hv20. there is a website called hv20.com (haha) and it is a forum about it. well lots of pro really like the camera. and use it for wedding although it doesnt look liek a pro camera, it gives great video.
Jun 11 2007 10:37PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
lies, LIES!
Jun 12 2007 12:32AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
have you seen GOOD footage from a 1000? the colors are amazing, i havent seen footage from any other camera with colors as good as the 1000.
it does depend on what and how you film too, the vx1000 is better for skate style shots with alot of follow cams. but for artsy/tripod its not so good, something like a vx2100 or dvx would be better.

this video was shot with vx1000's, the quality is really really shitty, but it kinda gives you an idea
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8676145791540973694&q=skate+more&hl=en
Jun 12 2007 4:29AM
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A_Thomas
Posts: 1498 - Karma: 254
who here has very good knowledge of camcorders and can help me out, especially with sonys???? PM me!!! i need your help!
Jun 12 2007 7:11AM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
Yea I'm pretty sure tanaka was kidding, hence the caps.
Jun 12 2007 8:02AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
is snowperception related to skateperception? all of the instructionals are complete copies
Jun 12 2007 9:48AM
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Geoff.
Posts: 2378 - Karma: 12
yes.
Jun 12 2007 3:00PM
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CamBrowne
Posts: 1830 - Karma: 99
its just wat ive heard on skateperception.com
but then again every single person on that site is in love with the vx1000
Jun 12 2007 5:48PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
That is is why I hate skateperception so much. The number of ignorant idiots on that site far exceeds Newschoolers. You ask "hey, what camera would be good for making short films?"

instead of somebody saying something logical like DVX or Bolex H16, you get 50 replies from 17 year olds saying "vx, because its the best camera out there because it has the widest fish and the best colors."

and for the record, the vx does NOT have the widest fish nor does it have the best colors of any camera in its market.

that site is good if you are having camera problems or want to learn basic concepts like how to use a camera or what piece of equipment does this etc., but Skateperception is rarely a useful resource when it comes to non-technical issues.

If you want a reliable site with logical answers and users who are a thousand times as smart, go to dvxuser.com. Its not just a site for DVX users, it has sections for any camera.
Jun 12 2007 7:42PM
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*Fujative*
Posts: 8554 - Karma: 183
thank you
Jun 12 2007 11:53PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
yeah i agree, they are all in love with the 1000, and it definatly is not the best camera you can get, but for 1000 dollars it is. so i can see why they are in love with it, if it dosent have the best colors it atleast has the most unique, its cheap, and all you need for a perfect setup is the camera and a death lense and its exactly what most the big film companys use, and it only costs like 1600 with the lense. and for a similar setup with a dvx or 2100 it will cost like double that.

but thats what i hate about skate movies, they all look the same, cause they are filmed with a vx1000 and a death lense, and its all close up shots and follow cams. id really love to see one filmed with a dvx or 2100 with no fisheye.

Jun 13 2007 12:17AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I have never seen a big film company use that setup, except maybe a couple freelance shots in the bonus section of a movie.

Also, most skate movies have lots of VX2100 (same colors and image as the vx1000 except for low-light) shot that are long lens, they just suck at shooting long lens because they are too lazy to buy a tripod or learn composition skills.

and if you want DVX and 16mm skate movies, watch Yeah Right! (which you most likely have seen) or any Transworld movie. The thing about yeah right is it has gay skate filming for most of it, but when it gets to the 16mm parts my heart stops...they're sooo epic!
Jun 13 2007 1:33AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
lots of the bigger skateboard films use that setup, it may not be the only camera they use but like half the follow cams are done with a vx and death lense.

and i own a vx1000 and vx2100 and the colors on the 2100 are similar, but i definatly wouldnt say they are the same. personally i think a fisheye on a 2100 looks kinda shitty, the only reason i still own the 1000 is for follow cams, the 2100 is for everything else, the 1000 looks too digital for long lense shooting with skiing.
and yeah right is an awesome movie, do they use a dvx for the fisheye shots too? if they do then im impressed.
Jun 13 2007 5:11AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,682
just to throw it out I hate fish eye shots just use a wide angle lense, if it's supper fish eye it looks horible.
Jun 13 2007 6:18AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
i guess you havent seen very many skate videos then
Jun 13 2007 9:55AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
well heres another thing to think about that im sure you didnt consider. when you film lines, generally you use a fisheye so you can get close and fill the screen with the subject. it gives the shot a much more energetic, concentrated action shot. any line filmed long just looks mellow and often very silly.

but what about this. how much does a dvx cost...$2300? how much does a vx cost...$800-$1000. would you rather have a skater fall and the board shoot out and ruin your dvx, or would you rather have the board ruin your vx? insurance doesnt cover that. alot of filmers use the vx1000 because it is possibly the best camera at its price. very rarely in skate videos are long shots filmed with vx1000s. now keep in mind were talking about professional level videos here. many amateur filmmakers such as myself dont really have money to piss out on equipment. our video this summer is going to be filmed like 2/3 vx2000 and 1/3 sony handycam hi8 piece of shit
Jun 13 2007 10:01AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
haha I wouldn't consider skate videos to be "professional", which is why I said no professionals use that setup. Im talking higher-end filmmakers, like the guys who made Roam, or Poorboyz, or the next Robert Rodrequiz film for that matter. Any professional film will say the same thing: vx + fisheye = shit.

and Leckett made a good point about the cam getting hit...but I figure its worth it. Its really unprofessional to sacrifice the quality of the shot just because the filmer has a personal finance issue and is afraid to break the camera. Like me personally, I do flying follow-cams with my DVX. If I broke my DVX, I would be screwed, completely fucked over, no camera for another year or so. But I do anyway, because I don't want to sacrifice footage.
Jun 13 2007 2:48PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
yeah i couldnt see a company like pbp using a 1000 either, it wouldnt fit at all.
im trying to say that for skateboarding the 1000 with a fisheye is probably the best camera you can get if you want lots of up close follow cams and fisheye shots, especially for the money. the 1000 does have a pretty digital look to it, but since skateboarding is all in an urban enviornment, lots of concrete, everything is man made, the digital look fits it really well. but skiing is in a totally opposite envirnment, so you want a softer, less sharp, less intense look, and the 1000 sucks for that, and there is alot of low light footage in skiing and 1000's suck in low light. thats why i use my 2100 for pretty much all skiing footage except for follow cams, its ALOT easier to get a softer less sharp picture and it is awesome in low light.
Jun 13 2007 5:17PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
thats where I disagree. I think film looks superior on both environments. Film looks harsher and more real in my opinion too. Look at the slo mo parts in Yeah Right! the 16mm has suuuch better colors than the vx. It is also natively a higher resolution format, therefor it is sharper. Sharper + better colors + ability to manipulate the fabric of time = insane possiblities as far as creating a "real" or "harsh" looking segment. This is another reason why I don't understand vx1000's "surperiority" aside from funding issues. 16mm is clearer, HD, better colors, and can shoot any progressive actual High Def framerate you want.

When I see vx footage I just can't help but feel like I'm watching Cops or some reality show shit, I hate it.




But then again I am the complete wrong person to ask about Sony cameras. I have a life-long hatred towards sony so for less bias ask someone else.
Jun 13 2007 7:37PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
well yeah i totally agree, 16mm is better than a 1000 in every way, i would never choose a vx1000 over 16mm, i dont think anyone would.
im just saying for the money, i dont think there is anything else you could buy that would work as well for skating. sure dvx's, vx2100's, XL2's etc. all look better in almost every way except mabye color, but they all cost more than double the price.
Jun 14 2007 4:14AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
the video called The End was filmed entirely in 16mm. pretty amazing skate vid. should check it out.

theres another thing that i was reading on skate perception. lots of filmers with professional equipment in california and other sketchy places with gangs often get jumped for their cameras. walking around with a beautiful 16mm camera is an invitation to get stabbed in cali. id rather have a vx stolen than a bolex.

the thing about the vx1000 is its so convenient. thats why its so popular. it has nice colors, works well with a fisheye (not under a professional filmmakers standard because they have money to piss) and hell its a decent price
Jun 14 2007 9:18AM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
and one more thing for the hate on followcams with vx1000s....try doing a followcam with a bolex...good luck!
Jun 14 2007 9:20AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
yeah exactly what else could you get for the same price? a gl1? mabye a gl2? the gl1 wouldnt compare, gl2's are great but they arent very good at all for skating. with the vx1000 you atleast get great colors that are as good as something like a dvx's to some people even better.

even if you dont like vx1000 footage, you cant deny that its a really really good deal, and great for skating footage.
Jun 14 2007 1:41PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
yeah exactly what else could you get for the same price? a gl1? mabye a gl2? the gl1 wouldnt compare, gl2's are great but they arent very good at all for skating. with the vx1000 you atleast get great colors that are as good as something like a dvx's to some people even better.

even if you dont like vx1000 footage, you cant deny that its a really really good deal, and great for skating footage.
Jun 14 2007 1:43PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
no thats what Im saying, the DVX is better than all those cameras, including color, which is why it costs more.

I've seen "amazing" vx1000 footage that I didn't think was so amazing. I get better footage out of my un-color corrected DVX shots.


as for the follow cam issue, I'd MUCH rather do a follow cam with an Arri setup than a vx anyday. Arris are heavy as shit, the footage looks better, and theres much better lenses then those Centurys.


And the whole getting jumped issue: I think some thug is more likely to steal a new-looking expensive digital camera than some old-looking film thing. Whenever I shoot film theres a bunch of kids going "why are you shooting with that old ass thing?" wheras when I shoot digital I get a bunch of kids going "holy wow how much was that thing????!?!"
Jun 14 2007 2:36PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
i know an arri setup would be much better, but still its 16mm, and its gonna cost a ton to shoot if the camera itself dosent cost alot. the only reason im even defending the vx1000 is because of its price, im not saying its better, im just saying you get alot for your money.
and there are some people who do like vx1000 footage over something like vx2100, xl2, or dvx footage, im not one of them, but that shows its all your opinion.
Jun 15 2007 4:45AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
yeah I know people like the vx1000 more than most cams, but when I ask why their resoning is dumb. "it has the widest fish" or "it has the clearest image and color of any SD camera"

both reasons are the most common and yet both are proven wrong time and time again, I mean, are these kids blind or something?
Jun 15 2007 4:58AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
yeah true, most people like it because they hear its good, and they dont really have an actual reason to back it up, or good footage to back it up, they just say those two things you mentioned.

there is a reason it was my first camera, i did research, like reading reviews and everything and everyone said get the vx1000 for those same reasons and more. i didnt watch very much actual footage.

though my friends cousin is in some film school in europe, and he loves the 1000 for the stuff he does, he just makes short films and things, and its actually pretty impressive how good it looks when you dont just do follow cams in a skate movie, i think alot of people would be suprised. cause the only vx1000 footage most people ever see is in a skate movie.
Jun 15 2007 3:43PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
yeah well I've never seen vx1k footy that I've liked. I have, however, seen some amazing vx2100 footage though. Some kid on skateperception made a dolly out of a ladder.

But I think it only looked good to me is because he did a shitload of cc work and slowed down every shot so that it didn't look like 60i. Plus the dolly was a really nice effect; real talented kid.
Jun 15 2007 3:46PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
do you have a link to that footage? im interested.
Jun 15 2007 3:56PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
no I dont, but just search "ladder dolly" under the filming forums on skateperception.
Jun 15 2007 3:59PM
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Rajna
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 90
i think this is the link hes talking about:
http://s1.video.blip.tv/0040000375776/Scared-SelfmadeLadderDolly675.mp4
Jun 15 2007 5:07PM
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leckett1
Posts: 6476 - Karma: 294
i just thought of another reason why 16mm is rarely used in skateboarding. alot of shit (especially lines) take quite a few tries...lines often 10-20 minutes of tape...thats alot of tape...and quite expensive for a 16mm camera. the wasting of tape is greatly lessened with minidv
Jun 15 2007 5:15PM
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Geoff.
Posts: 2378 - Karma: 12
yeah i saw that. by scared!? right? he also used a AFX plug in called filmmagic or something
Jun 15 2007 5:41PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
well yeah but money aside, 16mm kills miniDV for follows. I also think its a good idea (even though I hate it) how huge skateboard corperations have thier filmers use something as low-budget as a vx for vids. I mean, its a really good idea, since 98% of kids who watch the videos think its the best quality ever, but I mean c'mon. Skiing isnt the size of skateboarding yet we shoot 16mm all the time.
Jun 15 2007 5:51PM
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