Israel

while your source "We're sorry... this story is not currently available" is very convincing, I'll have to disagree with you on a few points. If you replace "US" with "UN" you might have something here. It was the UN that created the state of Israel in 1948. I think that it is that same UN that everyone relies on so much for their blessing and permission to go to war. If you're going to identify a terrorist, don't forget that the UN consists of 192 countries.

thread creator, you are an asshole...

he's actually being mostly accurate. The main reason for terrorism against the u.s. has nothing to do with our way of life etc. that's been rammed down our throat. The reason for terrorism is this countries continued support for jerusalem. I'm not saying that we sshould go knock jerusalem off, but there needs to be a real, and respected country named palestine. This would pretty much end problems for us. Think about it, jerusalem has been the counry that backs out of all of its treaties with palestinians. Every time. The continued support of that nation is enough to call our countries policies racist. And piss off the entire arabic world. Like I said, jersualem has its rights, but there is a whole other group of people that aren't getting any.

Isreal has been getting raped by terrorism and  land theifs ever since they became a country.   They have to do the right thing to dfend their country.  If America was in the same situation, Israel would come and help and America, most likely, would do the same thing as the Jews.

ummm israel is one of the safest places in the world. they are a militaristic society. they spend more on there military then canada. the only time they slightly got there asses kicked was last summer in lebanon, it sounds like you are describing all the countries that border israel

yea most terrorists hate us because of our ardent support for israeli agression against palestine. If the raids on the west bank and gaza would stop, so would the intifada and suicide bombings.

The fact is, if we stood up to israel and curtailed them a bit while supporting a viable palestinian state, our credibility in the middle east would shoot up 10000000% giving us a needed boost if we ever decide to mess with iran.

You're dumb, Israeli's just don't go into Palestine and kill people for fun, #1 Palestines do just as much killings as Israelis do and #2 we put Israel there and Palestines are mad that we took their land so they are fighting Israeli's for it.

And a big LOL to this post! Yeah, Israeli is a really safe place! I hope you were being sarcastic, oh man. Hezzbollah keeps attacking Israel, Palestines and Israelis are exchanging car bombs every day, really safe. And how much $ does Canada spend on its military? The last fight canada was in was in 1812.

normally i don't get angry but...
you better shut the fuck up. "one of the safest places"? how abou the bombings? and, look at the fact that israel has constantly been trying to make peace with the palestiniens, offering them land. however, the extremeist palestiniens only wany the destruction of the jews. so honestly, shut the fuck up.

yea it sounds stupid but its actually true israel is very safe. im not going to try to convince you because i dont give a shit and perhaps canada was a bad comparison. my point was that israel for its size pretty much has the most powerful military in the world. easily the best air force.  all the fighting is going on in palestine, israel's borders are fucking tight.

HAHA!!! israel offers hezbollah and hamas land that israel never owned in the first place, and yes again. israel is fucking air tight. sure the world may be ending right outside its borders but i gurantee you if you go to israel the chances of you hearing a gunshot are slim.

39 israelis were killed in the war this past summer. over 1500 lebanese civillians were killed.

ever watch the movie munich, they are powerfull and can help us out

and creators of this threads getting raped by the responces. he'll try to not accept it but it just happend

yea they just break all of the ceasefire agreements on accidents, oh and the dead civs, accidents as well. your second statement is just laughable. f-15 eagles and state of the art tanks against rocks and ak's and 30 yr old russion rockets. yep

yep, absolutley isreal is the bad guy here! they are to blame!!!!!!

wait a sec, it seems like ive heard something about how all that needs to happen in order for regular relations to resume in that area is for the hammas wing of the palestinian parliament to recognize isreal as a viable nation! and they wont do it!

yep, isreal isreal isreal. bad bad bad.

Of course they spend all of there money one their military they are surronded by countries that are intent on destroying them. Look at a map, in the last 50 years Israel been attacked by every single one of its neighbors, and many countries in the middle east want nothing more then the complete destruction of Israel. They are also attacked by terrorist groups on a regular basis, so if you were running a country that was surronded by enemies wouldn't it be irresposible not to spend a substantial amount of money on defense.

Israel gave Hamas the Gaza Strip, something that the PLO had been trying to gain control of since the begining, and two things happened. Last summer Hammas kindnaped an Israeli soldier and shot mordar rounds into Israel. And now within the Gaza strip there is a civil war happening between Hamas and the Fatah party. Just based on this, why should the palistenians have a state if they cant even control this one strip of land.

Oh yeah and this line

" it openly promotes zionism as if its not the most hideous thing since nazi facism"
just instantly discredits anything else you say
because i can easily name at least 50 things that have been way worse then Zionism since 1945.

Um when Palestinians drive car bombs into Israeli buildings or blow themselves up in crowded places that isn't 'fighting'? You're an idiot. And also you're dumb if you think Israeli is 'air tight' and 'safest city anywhere', I don't care what you say that is just flat out idiotic.

wat's zionism?

Zionism is an international political movement that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel.[1] Formally organized in the late 19th century, the movement was successful in establishing the State of Israel in 1948, as the world's first and only modern Jewish State. It continues primarily as support for the state and government of Israel and its continuing status as a homeland for the Jewish people.[2] Described as a "diaspora nationalism",[3] its proponents, including contemporary figures such as Robert Rockaway and historical luminaries such as Albert Einstein, regard it as a national liberation movement whose aim is the self-determination of the Jewish people.[4] Opposition to Zionism has arisen on a number of grounds, ranging from religious objections to competing claims of nationalism to political dissent that considers the ideology either immoral or impractical.[5]

- Wikipedia

who ever made this thread is a fuck tard

Thats pretty close to accurate. You just forgot Boar War in 1899, hmm oh yeah World War One, Oh yeah cant forget our 6 year involvement in World War Two... what else now. Ah yes The Korean War and almsot forgot Afghanistan. But you know cmpared to the war of 1812, what do any of thsoe matter?

And to the thread creator, your a fucking idiot. There can be no one reason why any of this happened. All parties have wronged another at some point or an other. Yes according to the United Nations their occupation of The West Bank and Gaza is illegal and yes they commit atrocities there. But you cant forget the history that Israel has with their neighbors. A very bad one in Both 1967 and 1973 not to mention Iran's cited goal to erase Israel from the map. So both parties are to blame for this conflict. Too bad you've read something convincing on the internet, just like thousands of other idiots and jumped to beleive it. Heres a lesson in history for you. Look at both sides of the subject before making blind accusations.

the highest number i could find of israeli civillians killed by "terrorism" in the last 2 years puts the number 24. so umm how am i a fucktard? it is a fact israel has broken laws and ceasefires, its a fact they have used cluster bombs on civilians, its a fact the largest lobby group in washington is for israel. if you talk to somene from israel chances are they will tell you they there is no palestine and there are no palestinians. that is the zionist mindset and they use brute force without any oversight , i guess thats not a problem for us though

ok now check out the deaths from terrorism dating back to the year 2000. God your so fuckign superficial

somobody tell me how israel being attacked throughout history gives them the right to act like nazis?

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.


"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).



David Ben Gurion
Prime Minister of Israel
1949 - 1954,
1955 - 1963

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen."
-- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971



Golda Meir
Prime Minister of Israel
1969 - 1974


"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)


Yitzhak Rabin
Prime Minister of Israel
1974 - 1977,
1992 - 1995


"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.


Menachem Begin
Prime Minister of Israel
1977 - 1983


"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."
-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988


Yizhak Shamir
Prime Minister of Israel
1983 - 1984,
1986 - 1992


"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.


Benjamin Netanyahu
Prime Minister of Israel
1996 - 1999

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.



Ehud Barak
Prime Minister of Israel
1999 - 2001


"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Again comparing anyone to the Nazi party automaticly make any point that you make after that void

usually when someone calls bush hitler that is true but you obviously have put much thought into this, zionism=facism and racism. that is a fact my friend.

Ok stop right the fuck there. I guess their just lining the fucking palestinans into the gas chambers outside Tel Aviv, oh and i suppose their commiting atrocities inside the Bethlahem ghetto. GET A GRIP you fucking retard and shut your mouth and listen to someone besides yourself for an instant. If your going to try and make a persuasive argument you gotta stop sounding like a fucking retard. there is NO reason to EVER comapre anything like this to anything the Nazis did because regardless of what you consider evil, there is no measuring up to the greatest genocide of the 20th century.

i didint say what israel is doing compares to what hitler did, i said they are acting like nazis, which is true

well by making that comparison you may as well be relating it to Hitler because you have to weigh the gravity of whatever your comparing something to. Not that it matters because they're not in any way acting like nazis. Nazi Germany annexed and occupied lands outside of its right out of nothing more then greed. Israel does it because the last time they didnt Jordan Syria and Egypt invaded LEGAl Israeli lasnd and tried to destory the nation. If that happened to you you'd feel a little safer with a buffer zone wouldnt you? Now whos the say if thats wrong or right. Its all about perspective. Being an outsider its a lot easierr to criticize but if your an israeli living in Jerusalem trying to live your life normally I bet it feels alot more comfortable having the military in the west bank and Gaza.

They may have ultra conservative policies concerning the palestinians that you dont agree with, but i really wouldn't go so far to say that its facism. Saying they're facist does compare them in a way to the Nazi's in germany, the black shirts in italy, and other thugish regiemes throughout history. Really the Israeli's are just trying to defend the land that they have, i mean saying that they should give back all of the land that Israel has taken through wars (The Golan Hieghts, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank) would be like suggesting that America give land back to the Indians or Mexico, or that France give Alsace-Lorenne back to Germany... its ludacris.

its wrong for israel to kill relentlessly, i dont give a fuck if they are surronded by fuckers who hate them, its there own fault, if they were not racist and didint have the need to have more land things would be alot different. iran,syria,jordan,egypt., every fucking country could attack israel right now and israel would win, look at the cia world factbook they have one of the most powerful and advanced miliaries in the world. what they are doing is not for protection its there politics.

but in their situation Protection and Politics is the same thing buddy. By making that distinction it proves you dont actually know anything about it. Protection has been Israel's way of life for 50 some odd years, ithout it they wouldnt be a country. Occupations? Shit, thats the least of Israel's worries. Theyre just trying to exist as a nation. Read what you just said. Your BLAMING Israel for having a stronger army then Jordan Egypt Syria and Iran. Of course they need a bigger arny then them, are you a fucking tool? If they didnt they would survive as a country because the arab world hates them. Instead of saying that, why dont you just outright say it. You dont agree with Israel as a nation. Because criticising its military and what they do is criticising the only way they have to survive.

Occupations? people bitched the same way about the Soviets cracking down on Budapest, but who can say they honestly remember that? Didnt really come to anything did it? Or maybe life just sucks and people die in this world. Welcome to reality. Im sure theres a tree in your backyard in need of a good hug.

I would hardly say that Israel kills relentlessly, but i dont want to argue that. Is it a bad thing that Israel would be able to defeat their neighbors if they attacked them? Wouldn't it make sense for a country to want to defend itself against its enemies?

Another thing is that Israel has been attacked by Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt in its short history. When Israel was created the "Arab League" (consiting of the above countries) did attack Israel and Israel defeted them

ps. i know you're mad, but dont swear it makes you sound stupid and immature

I understand how Israel has a sense of Militarianism about themselves but its merited militarianism because they need to defend themselves. We defend Israel because they are a liberal democracy and much like in the 50's-70's, we reward Israel with our backing because they are so, whereas in the 50's-70's we backed people who tried to convert to democracy or in that era anybody who wasn't communist. Israelis are NOT Nazi-like I have no idea how you'd think that, its an arab country surrounded with religious conflict which is often the cause of the numerous bombings, wherever you got 24 deaths by terrorism that site is idiotic because palestine and israel are fighting all the time.

alot of good true factotems in this thread. whangustan sounds like he took the same current events class and i did haha. and i completely agree. you want my stance? read what he and atlanta said.

but yeah kid, you're wrong with alot of your posts, but it is true israel is actually pretty safe. i know some people who have been there (and one whos there RIGHT NOW haha). tel aviv has a good club scene. its kinda like the US in the 70's. lots of drugs, lots of sex...but really i mean, the buses are pretty shady, but in general its actually not as bad as everyone thinks at all.

I just think the US should stop giving so much god-damn aid to Israel.

well said

uhhhhhhh


controversy controversy.

Israel is not a safe place my friend. And don't tell me its not because you have never been there.

its a tricky situation, we really pulled a fast one on the arab world when we enstated israel. palestinians believe their land was taken from them, and it kinda was.

i think you really got a wierd view on this one. Not neccessarily because all your opinions are wrong but because of what you are arguing about. I just don't understand how you can be angry at Israel for promoting their country and trying to defend what is their land. Yes, the land may have been taken from the arab world and palestinians, but you would defend your home too if it was under attack. If you are mad that Israel has the land in the first place be mad at the U.N. not the Israeli people. And yes, Israel may have some militaristic policies that you may disagree with and may have overstepped their boundries a few times(matter of opinion), but these steps were taken in order to preserve their homeland which is very reasonable especially since they have been persecuted and homeless for the better sum of their existence. And if Israel is so safe as you claim, why do you think its that way? Because Israel takes many steps to make it that way using the policies that you claim as facist. The reality is that in tough situations you often have to go beyond what some people consider reasonable and I think this case may be one of those.

i stopped reading this thread because its a waste of time, but thread creator despite your quote copy and pasting skills you clearly have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

hahaha you are just so stupid man, sorry.

All of you people calling palestinians terrorists suck a fat dick. The atrocities the Israeli's commit far outnumber anything the Palestinians have done. plane and simple the palestinians are being oppressed and they are fighting back any way they can. You think palestinians are the only ones who kill innocent civilians? what about when israeli's blow up an entire apartment building with rockets killing many women and children just because a hammas leader may or may not be in the building. Or the brutal murders of innocent people by Israeli soldiers. the palesinians are constantly being harrased by the Israeli's whether it's getting their houses bulldozed or being arrested witout charge. they move entire settlements and bulldoze over palestinians homes to make way for an Israeli settlement. What would you do if this was happening to you daily and you were treated like a second class citizen. Israeli's are the terrorists and the Palestinians are the freedom fighters tring to get the rights and land that they deserve.
Free Marwan Barghouti

Look, Israel is in a very tough situation, they are surrounded by countries far bigger then they are and they all want to see them “wiped off the map.” Every day in Israel there are bombs lobed into boarder settlements or shootings, so come on, what would you guys want to do if our country was being attacked, even on a small scale, but daily, as is Canada and Mexico… naturally we would fight back… and unfortunately this would lead to terrible living conditions for boarder settlements like the Palestinian ones in today’s middle east. But you can’t blame Israel, obviously this is going to happen. And you cant say all they have to do is lay down the weapons and everything will be better because the president of Iran himself, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, said he wanted to see Israel “wiped off the map,” how would America respond to the prez of Canada dropping that one? Also that article was BS. Yeah the soldier fucked up BIG TIME! But the whole article was talking about how bad he fucked up and how they are trying to find the soldier that did that so he can be dealt with accordingly. And about all the civilians being killed, of course it is 100% no good, but its kind of hard to avoid when the terrorists intently make there headquarters in civilian towns in order to make things impossible for Israel to deal with, w/o hurting and or killing civilians which subsequently fucks them in the ass.