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Hawaiin Army officer court martialed for refusing to go back to Iraq

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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/02/02/army_officer_court_martial_tests_free_speech/

Wow, this is pretty big news.  I listened to a radio show that interviewed this guys dad and he basically said that his son is willing to go to jail to avoid going back to Iraq to serve again, he has came to that realization.  FFs I agree with him too, hes already served time in Iraq, no one wants to get blown up by a bomb and killed for no reason when there isnt even an official war going on.  This guy is making a great statement thats for sure and is willing to waste 3 years away in prison rather than go back, that says alot to me.  I hope this is a better wake up call for our govt.


Feb 7 2007 1:03AM
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J.Bass
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 24
if he went over to Iraq and didn't like what he saw, why did he stay in the military? also i think he first enlisted in 2003, a while after the war had already started, he was obviously pro war then knowing he would most likely be deployed.
Feb 7 2007 1:44AM
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whattheshit
Posts: 6562 - Karma: 107
he should be shot.
Feb 7 2007 2:50AM
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corbenketelsen
Posts: 254 - Karma: 10
fuck hippies
Feb 7 2007 2:52AM
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dman1260
Posts: 899 - Karma: 13
thats a pretty ignorant statement. Just because someone enlisted in the military doesn't mean they are pro war. Maybe the money they recieved from enlisting was the only way to support themselves or to get out of a bad situation they were in. Also, when he signed up he may not have expected so many tours of duty which is what happens to many people when the enter the army. Don't judge a person because they are fighting the war, judge the people who started the war cause there is a huge difference between the two in most cases.
Feb 7 2007 3:01AM
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fappy
Posts: 2960 - Karma: 15
dick cheney should be shot.
Feb 7 2007 3:34AM
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brokebutitsworthit
Posts: 2279 - Karma: 27
So?  There have always been deserters since wars began, i dont see why this is a big deal or any different.
Feb 7 2007 6:26AM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
It's not really like hes dissappeared off the map when they called him for duty, hes just standing up for himself and his belief and straight up telling the gov to shove the war up their ass, i would say thats a difference from just not showing up for duty.
Feb 7 2007 10:48AM
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HeathR
Posts: 4357 - Karma: 1,379
you should be shot
Feb 7 2007 10:51AM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
He is a moron for signing up. However if more soldiers would become objectors perhaps we wouldn't have the fucking insane war. Fuck the democrats too non binding resolution fucking pussies.

We need to clean house in the government.
Feb 7 2007 10:54AM
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ndrwchrst37
Posts: 510 - Karma: 159
who would wanna go to iraq

i went there its not that cool

alot of sand praying towels and car bombs

no dream vac

and no snow

of course he dosint wanna go back

fuck it they should all leave or at least do something cool like blow up mecca
Feb 7 2007 10:59AM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
What about people like my neighbor who HAVE performed their second tours. Seriously, he's pretty selfish, not saying I wouldn't be, but he is. He's an officer, it's his job to set an example and lead.
Feb 7 2007 11:19AM
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Craigskis
Posts: 6648 - Karma: 1,636
your retarded aren't you?
Feb 7 2007 11:21AM
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J.Bass
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 24
"man i hate this war but I'm just too tight for money right now, i have to enlist. there is absolutely no other way, no other jobs that don't completely go against my beliefs. oh well." you really thing so? also, he wasn't he wasn't some guy who just signed up to get some money or benefits, he was an officer.
Feb 7 2007 12:34PM
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Concord
Posts: 4700 - Karma: 47
They should shoot him...Fuckin sign the papers knowing what the hell he was getting into, plus hes a officer hes suppose to set a standard for the NCO and lower ranked soldiers pvt,pfc, and cpl that's not showing any leadership. He should be shot. Disapppointing that hes a little bitch and can't handle a tour over to Iraq.
Feb 7 2007 12:48PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
First of all, you're all idiots cause you can't read. He has not served in Iraq yet, he joined the Army and served a year in Korea. His refusal to fight in Iraq is not because he doesn't want to go into combat, he has offered to be deployed to Afghanistan, it's because he disagree's on why the US is in Iraq in the first place.

Do I agree with his stance? No. He joined the army after the invasion had begun and being an officer, he's educated, and has to believe that that there would be a possibility of him being deployed to Iraq. I mean 24,000 odd troops in Afghanistan and what ~135,000 in Iraq, odds are thats where you are going to be headed.

Should he be shot? No. He is not deserting, he is disobeying deployment orders. But throw him in jail and discharge him from the Army. You can't have fair-weather soldiers in a leadership role. If you want to fight, you have to be willing to whenever and wherever your country calls you to go. He would be better off as a politician.
Feb 7 2007 1:21PM
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duhamelski
Posts: 3842 - Karma: 192
well if ur gonna join the military then you have an obligation to fight for your country under all circumstances
Feb 7 2007 1:33PM
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Concord
Posts: 4700 - Karma: 47
He might as well be deserting that's pretty low of him. Shit I know plenty of people that didn't wanna go but they did what they were suppose to. He did go AWOL at first, right? If this is the same Lt. I'm thinking of. Hes with one of the most deployed divisions in the Army shit they go around changing the division from the 172nd styker brigage whatever the feel like changing them to so much so they can't have a 6 month non-deployment status. He had to know that he was going to go.

I can go around post and ask people and everyone I ask thinks he needs to be shot. Maybe you need to be a part of the Army to know how it feels to have someone puss out on a deployment when we go and have buddies being shot up, IED's blowing up soldiers... If they send him to jail he gets out easily.
Feb 7 2007 1:46PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
Do you guys realize that this isnt an official War dont you?  This is all  just personal agendas and  taking control of our armies and sending people to their death daily.

Im stoked this guy is standing up against that BS. 
Feb 7 2007 1:52PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
Right, technically the last real war we had was WWII.
Feb 7 2007 1:58PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
unless your doing something cool like being a sniper or a fighter pilot the military is bullshit. i talked to a recruiter, its such a shitty option, go risk getting your head sawed off for what? the same $$$ you could make working at fuckign dunkin donuts. if any of you have seen what george carlin said about iraq in his show life is worth losing. that basically sums it up.
Feb 7 2007 2:06PM
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Concord
Posts: 4700 - Karma: 47
That's why we don't do it for the money. shit i made more money working in a warehouse. I'll rather have bullets being shot at me lot more fun. And he shouldn't of siged any papers should of known what was going to happen.
Feb 7 2007 2:13PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
Yeah it is pretty low of him, but does that mean he should die? No. He shouldn't have been in the Army in the first place, and 4 years in jail is no picnic I'm sure.
Feb 7 2007 2:15PM
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newschooler8924
Posts: 747 - Karma: 9
for some reason i dont believe you
Feb 7 2007 2:17PM
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(fujative)
Posts: 332 - Karma: 14
its his fault for getting involved in the military in the first place, what did he think was going to happen?
Feb 7 2007 2:27PM
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Concord
Posts: 4700 - Karma: 47
Military prison is hard labor, suck for him. A point needs to be made that with all this though hes a officer, officers are the leadership of the Army hes giving a bad name for the officers. What was his rank, Lt, or 2nd lt I never read the story just kind of heard about it. Wasn't he AWOL as well?
Feb 7 2007 4:39PM
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wAy2sTeEzY4u
Posts: 5449 - Karma: 20
thats all that needs to be said, this guy is just as bad as any deserter...im not gonna say he should be hung because i am a forgiving person but it IS the proper punishment for desertion..always has been.
Feb 7 2007 4:46PM
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the_friesz
Posts: 1007 - Karma: 18
Yeah I saw this on the news here last night. Personally it disgusts me. I represents nothing but cowardice to me. You'll never hear it but most troops really don't believe too much in the cause for the war. BUT they go because it is their DUTY. I served 5 years in the Marine Corps with 2 tours to Iraq. I felt responsibility to execute my duty no matter how I felt. It was more important to me to be there supporting my friends and watching their backs than some stupid ass "statement". This guy is a complete disgrace and on top of that he's an officer. Most of you have no idea of the distinction, but it goes further than just them having a leadership role. Everyone, no matter their rank already has that. But officers really are supposed to set the example for everyone, not just enlisted but other officers. They're out there risking their necks almost as much as every enlisted man out there. I guarantee for every helo crash that happened in the last few weeks 2 officers have died at the least. Me OIC and another officer that I was friends with were shot down when we were over there last winter. This guy by refusing service has spit on their sacrifice. Yeah, the war, whatever you want to call it has no base, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it IS happening and no matter the sentiment it will continue until someone admits defeat. And I'll be damned If anyone thinks that is a good idea not just for us to admit defeat, but pretty much the rest of the world. Go and read up on the Taliban and take some time to see a movie called Osama to see what the fruits of islamic extremism are. We're not fighting for the same thing we started out fighting for when we first invaded Iraq, things have changed. Throw this shit-bag in the stockade that's all I have to say concerning him.
Feb 7 2007 5:05PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
If you are army enlisted you are very likely to be deployed multiple times. Anyone who is in the military knows that. They also know that refusing duty is going to lead to a court martial. He puts other people in his squadron in a pretty awkward position by refusing his duty. If he refuses to even go, how is going to act in a combat/working situation? I wouldn't trust a person like that.
Feb 7 2007 5:09PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
ya but when you swear in and volunteer to be responsible for yourself and others this is just juvenile
Feb 7 2007 5:11PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
I understand what you are saying, but I believe there is a time when enough is enough, no matter where you signed on that dotted line to sign your life away to some dictator faggot who says you need to go risk your life for absolutely no good reason at all. 

You call him a coward? fuck off man.  I call our whole fucking govt a coward for sending our good USA troops to fight a war with intentions that are being hidden from the Public.  why dont they get out of their fucking office and get over to Iraq?  You want me to respect our presidents orders? well fuck, show me that him and his cabinet are willing to go to the front lines of the war and risk their own lives and I might consider it.  They wont even send their relatives.
Feb 7 2007 5:38PM
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vermontsteez
Posts: 924 - Karma: 19
wow because he doesn't want to go to war shouldn't mean that he has to go to jail... i mean wow what the hell happened to freedom. I know he had signed up but cmon... you kids have no idea what war can do to you nor do i, so stop hating him for his decision
Feb 7 2007 5:48PM
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the_friesz
Posts: 1007 - Karma: 18
Ah, well we can all bring out our ideals. But for the position he held he is a coward. You might not know this but everyone in the military does think for themselves. We don't all go blindly into the meat grinder. He had an obligation to all of the others in his unit that did go to do whatever he could to get everyone back home alive. He obviously had different plans. That is cowardice, as well as a betrayal to all those in his unit that would put their lives on the line for that guy. It doesn't matter who is president, or what side your fighting against what does matter is the guy next to you. Don't you understand? It's not a political issue when you look at it from the perspective of the military. He swore an oath not only to protect the constitution, as I did, but an unspoken oath to protect every man in his unit if they were to be put in harms way. Very few people on here probably understand, you're all much to sophisticated and mature. The issue isn't his political beliefs here, that's not what he's being tried for. He's being tried for refusing service and missing a movement. When orders are cut there is no discussion over whether you want to go or not. The military isn't calling the shots, they're there to carry out orders. So with his disobedience he only deserves to be held accountable for his actions. I've seen people locked up for less, so don't cry for this guy, he deserves what's coming to him.
Feb 7 2007 8:22PM
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AndrewZ
Posts: 759 - Karma: 36
haha, that made me laugh! but seriously while it is good to stand up for what you believe in, he did make a commitment when he enlisted. When you enlist in the Army you don't get to choose which wars you fight...while I respect his morals and values he did sign up for this.
Feb 7 2007 8:56PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 26
i saw that on the news. did you see sean penn? hahaha he looked liked shit!
Feb 7 2007 8:57PM
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SAM2000
Posts: 162 - Karma: 10
MAKE SNOW NOT WAR
Feb 7 2007 9:05PM
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