Canada at War.

dude, i know a two star general that was in afganistan for a year and the taliban is already defeated. They are no longer in power

Ok the reason why the Tories came into power was because they made a huge deal out of the sponsorship scandal. They pushed the liberals to the breaking point and a little further.

Another reason the liberals lost is because the liberal have been there for the past 12 years.People wanted change. For Quebec, Harper said what the quebecers wanted to hear;something that the liberals never did.

I didn't vote for Harper, I think he's a douche, just like Bush.

I dunno man, thats not what I'm reading in the paper here..
"Taliban insurgents"

i saw on the news last night that another Canadian soldier was killed last night. It was breaking news at 11. RIP

Yesturday afternoon in Afghanistan 8 Afghani solders, 1 Canadian and 1 American soldier were killed and numerous insurgents were also killed when they tried to attack a small base.

Would you prefer for us to just leave the terrorists alone. Maybe if we stopped fighting, they wouldnt be so mad.

^Yeah, I would like that.

I just feel like this move by Harper was nothing but a big huge suck up to Bush and the US.

And what if it was? You do realize that helping them doing something that is in practice not a bad idea could be the only necessary sacrafice needed to guarantee billion of dollars back from the lumber industry...

The problem is that Bush only has limited power over the Senate and the lumber industry lobbyists.

they don't control the government anymore, but they are still intact as far as a terrorist network

Don't blame me, I voted for the Green Party!
We're pretty screwed as far as afganistan goes. It's what we get for bragging about being "Peace Keepers"
Ahh Well.

But try to think how much this war is going to cost us, not just in lives but in money? I think that even with the softwood lumber thing solved, the amount lost will be the same.

*SNIFF SNIFF* I smell pussies. If you understood anything about individual freedoms and economics you would be glad that a conservative party now controls your government. And are your panties seriously in such a huge bunch just because 11 of your soldiers have died? Fuck me, I bet more people get murdered in Canada in one day than that, and the U.S. has already lost over 2000 soldiers. And as for your scepticism as to whether or not we are "fighting terrorism", you would be on your knees praying to God that the US would go to war with the camel jockeys to get them off of our soil right now if we hadn't struck them on their own soil right after they struck at us.

Yes! Exactly! because everyone wearing a turbin was just about to come and invade North America just as Bush decided to go take the oil from Iraq! Man, where do you get your politics from TEAM AMERICA??

Maybe 11 people get murdered in Canada in a day.. Maybe. It doesn't mean it's acceptable to send them to die fighting over oil supremacy under the thin veil of freedom from "terrorism" Aren't you pissed that over 2500 of your fathers and brothers and sons are dead?? Or is that just a way of life?
Get real.. Killing people is stupid no matter what reason you have for it.

first, i'd just like to say that I do not understand what would posess a person to join the armed forces in Canada. Ok, if someone tries to invade our shit - I'll pick up a gun, but that's totally different.

I can almost understand it, but really I can't. (oh, and one of my good friends decided to join the U.S. Army a while back and was in Iraq for 7 months, and he almost convinced me of his reasons).

second, conservitives got into parlament because of people like my father - people who jump on the bandwagon. You'd be suprised how many people in this world don't even know how to form an opinion for themselves. they are incapable of it. it is easy to become blind to the truth in our society. what is morally right? i don't even think i could tell you what is right and wrong in world politics, because the truth of the matter is - noone fucking knows what's actually going on. Not even the U.S. Government (oh, and by the way - Harper and Bush don't actually mean shit, they're just a symbol, a pretty face for people to relate with. They never actually get to speak their mind, they have a team of people to tell them what to say)

thirdly, we're stuck with the tories for 4 years, hopefully by that time the NDP got their shit togeather. and we can't really do anything to stick up to the states, we're their bitch, we all know it. what? are we going to say 'NO' when they ask us to GIVE them water? Canadians are just like everyone else in the world - we don't want to get shot.

one side of my family was naval, up to my dad. back then it was loyalty to britian i think. and the fact that the world was seen in much more of a polarized way than it is today. these days i only have a cousin in the military, hes tank captian. i think he joined becuase a) its exciting and you travel and b) most of what he does it good work. most of his missiong have been peacekeeping missions abroad, doing something tangeibly good in the world.
as far as harper goes...oh well. i hope he wont fuck up the country too bad in four year, and losing will make the liberals get theyre shit together. ther got complacent, and started fucking around - now they're going to realize their mistakes. so on the whole its a good thing.

i hand theard harper decided to join the states. thats stupid. it threatens our security at home and for our people abroad. not to mention that hes morally in the wrong. the unfortunate thing we (the younger canadian generation) has to realize, is that theres still a LOT of people, especially in the more rural areas who think thats its a great idea - they come from a difference time and place, and are making bad decesions. so basically, we've got to grow up, take over, and get everything back on the right track. in the meantime, if you ever miss an election....well...you suck.

i would laugh if canada went to war, because the canadians are part french and france has never one a battle, so it would suck hard for those who are on the canadian side

Woooooooooooow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimy_Ridge

Oh man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_the_Marne

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Ypres

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Italy

Yeah, you may want to reconsider the whole laughing when Canada goes to war, and the French never winning a single battle.


You know what I noticed when bringing those links up and checking out JD_Mays? It actually seems that we were fighting over something meaningfull and necessary. And Canada's people are actually proud of having fought in those Wars.

First of all, we have not taken any oil from Iraq. You entire counter argument is completely flawed. We have sent private firms over to repair their oilfields and our troops protect their pipelines. If a single drop of Iraqi oil has made it stateside its because we bought it from private businesses. Not because "Bush decided to take oil from Iraq". Individuals who believe what you just said are simply ignorant. Do not believe everything that anti-american news sources such as the New York Times tells you.

My political viewpoints are derived from personal experiences, the news I hear as an informed citizen, and common sense.

My Camel Jockey comment may have been a bit over the top, even though it was meant as a joke.

And the last time I checked, individuals enlisting in the military did so knowing full well that you fight when you're in the military and people die in the fights. So do not say they were "sent to die". And no, I am not pissed that 2500 servicemen and women have died. Rather, I am greatful for their sacrifice. And you should be too.

Lastly, there are certain situations where killing people is not only acceptable but necessary. Was the American Revolution stupid? NO! Should we have let Germany and the Axis roll over the rest of the world in WWI and WWII? NO! So do not tell me that killing people is stupid no matter what the reason. If you have common sense, I suggest you start using it.

America! FUCK YA! Coming again to save the motherfucking day ya!

holy cow you're ignorant.
Check your 'iraq facts'. What actually happened there was that the war destroyed the oil pumps, and then the contracts to rebuild them were given to Haliburton, and other US firms, which although private yes, are HUGE contributors to the Bush family and your vice president used to be CEO of. Conflict of interest? Pretty much the definition of. Iraq has nothing to do with your 'government' getting the oil, its all about private companies with ties to the bush administration.
And your nickname sickens me, grow up.

^^ You know it!

Really, I'm not anti-American, but some people seem a little too eager to make excuses for fighting a war...
Yes, we had to stop the Nazi's, they were actually attacking other countries. I do have it on a personal level that the soldiers doing that weren't happy about having to do it! Trying to use that as a justification for Iraq is just inane. It's almost as bad as using the Taliban as an excuse...
Have you looked at a map, Iraq -- over here, Afghanistan --- over there.. Not friends, different religions and everything.
WMD MY ASS!!
If being opinionated and arrogant Makes for a great leader, then GO USA.. or should I say... MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

OH, and the American Revolution.... At least half of the people in your then colonies were against the idea... They just got bullied into it... Except the 100000 or so Loyalists who left and moved to Canada. Eh!

American-owned private companies were the ones drilling for oil in Iraq before the war. They drill all over the world, even China. So now that they're drilling for oil after the war you believe the entire war was a conspiracy for them to get more oil?

And Bush and his administration are not the ones who declared war, even though they were pushing for it. It takes an act of congress to declare war. So it took the votes of conservative and democrats alike to make war with Iraq. Do you think the Democratic party gets money from Halliburton and the other U.S. oil companies? The conspiracy only exists in the minds of idividuals such as yourself who just want another reason to bash The United States of America.

As for my nickname, it is an old gaming tag I used on Americas Army. I'm sorry if reading it puts your panties in a bunch.

I suggest you re-read my post. I used the World Wars and the American revolution as example why killing other people is ok in the proper situations. I never drew any parallels between the three wars other than the fact that all involved the killing of people. You drew the parallel that the World Wars and American revolution justify the war in Iraq yourself. I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.

As for your comparison of Afganistan and Iraq, you obviously did not think it out. Islam is nearly the only religion practiced in both nations. Both nations were home to large factions of terrorists and some of these terrorist groups had ties to both nations. Given their cultures differ, but not greatly. By the way, what does the fact that the two nations have differences have to do with WMD's? Undoubtedly you do not know the answer to this question yourself.

And your little bit about the U.S. being opinionated and arrogant is strictly your own opinion, so who's the opinionated one now? Do not waste my time by trying to make an argument based solely upon your personal beliefs.

And finally, why don't you criticize all of the other nations such as Russia, Germany, and Great Britain that all gathered intelligence that told them Iraq had WMD's? People trying to criticize the U.S. for thinking Iraq had WMD's had better re-evaluate their thinking because we acted on intelligence given to us by several other nations, including the ones I listed above. And those trying to push the theory that the U.S. only invaded Iraq for oil had better start bashing on Russia, France, and the U.N. as well, because they really did want Iraq's oil.

The next time you all want to bash on the World's greatest superpower you had better show up with cold hard facts, and not your conspiracy theories.

its called war, get used to it you beatnicks.

why is it so wierd were fighting alongside the US we have in pretty much every war in history

what really pisses me off is saying soldiers and stuff like that are sent to die. Fuck you Cindy Sheehan or whatever your goddamn name is. Your son signed a contract knowing that he ran the risk of death or severe injury in War, and even in training. Respect the memory of the people who died in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for the united states. If i ever see that bitch im clocking her in the face

Welcom to the war.
/wave

agreed

actually congress never declared war. we haven't been in an official war since WWII, official meaning congressionally declared. this is a police action, or whatever the hell you want to call it. i say if the country is really committed to the war, then let's declare it.

also before you said germany and the axis were trying to take over the world in WWI and WWII. WWII was necessary, WWI was completely pointless, and there were no good guys and bad guys. if you want i can explain it.

i hate conservatives.

france was against the war on iraq.

and for the record - were any wmd's found in iraq? can the 'war' be won?
where did i put my jeans?

You only hate America because we're better looking than Canadians.

I am pretty left wing, and i dissagree with all war, and dont think harper had to do what he did, but it will solve the softwood lumber dispute, which i think is great because the less trees canada sends out now will mean 1. a better environment, and 2. more trees to sell later on.
personally i think every political party in canada is bullshit, none of them are able to solve all the problems we have in this country, so the fact our military and economy are shit, a MINORITY conservative government will only last 2 years and then it will be a liberal majority for four years, then it will go further left wing.
the liberal government does nothing, i personally want to see the energy crisis in ontario solved, and the lumber disputes solved, more funding and help going to projects and groups that will support a sustainable future for humanity. americans apologizing for the lumber disputes is great but a conservative government is going to continue allowing the united states to take our wood.
but to the defence of the conservative party, and even bush for that matter is that the war in afghanistan is still nessecary because there is not a stable government yet, and harper supporting the "war" in afganistan is not as bad as you think because we already had soldiers there, its not like he said he supported it and overnight 1000s of canadian soldiers showed up all of a sudden casualties started happening. a good friend of mine is in the canadian army and recently returned because he is one of the listed casualties and he sustained some very serious injuries.
as for the war in iraq... its not about oil, it pisses me off when people say its about oil... oil must be traded at market value regardless of whether its in land you control or not. the war in iraq is because a conservative american "think tank" called New American Century, which has member like bush and cheney actually think they are defending the world, nobody can deny the fact that saddam is a bad person, there are lots of bad people in the world and this group of people feel that the best way to solve the problem and secure the future is to use military force and get rid of them... they think they are helping the world, they simply have a different oppinion, however enough people share thier oppinion because they were put into power. they come up with lame excuses because they know that if they told the truth out loud everyone would say its ridiculous to start a war simply because the leader of the country is a bad person. check out www.newamericancentury.org if you are interested in finding out more about why the united states is at war. you may even stuble across an article written before 9/11 about wanting to go to war with iraq.

now for the other side of what was at first a post and has become a massive rant that i have put too much effort into to stop.
the left wing side of canadian politics, as much as i feel war is bad, especially being from canada because nobody would ever bother going to war with us... if you are really left wing you will know that there are many greater problems in the world than teachers being able to retire at 60 with a full pension. this is why i find it hard to vote for left wing canadian parties... they have wonderful ideas on how to solve problems at home, but canada has a reputation to uphold and we really should help the rest of the world. because if we dont they will infact become angry at the fact we have every thing and they have next to nothing, not everyone in the western world has everything, this creates more probems with citizens who live here like crime,and the drug trade. the NDP for example increases welfare, lowers taxes for low income families, this all helps with getting rid of these domestic problems, it gives everybody here more equality, but what it does on the other side of the world is create a market where nothing is exported and the already cheap labour becomes non-existant labour. even the poorest in the western world will have more than they need, but it will take away what little the rest of the world has, and thanks to technology they will all watch thier tv or listen to thier radio and see what we have. this gives support to the al-qaida cells in sierra leon and the democratic republic of the congo which currently support themselves by the diamond trade. it will allow the genocides and "racial cleansing" that is apparent throughout all of africa, more people have been mercylessly slaughtered in africa because of race than people in the holocaust, we just dont see it because its in a small tucked away corner of the earth that our society sees as either cheap labour or poor souls who werent born with as much as us. the left wing political parties in canada cannot solve these problems.
what must be done to solve these problems is a rotation through the canadian political spectrum, the conservative government, although i am more left than right, will help the world to some degree so long as it doesnt stay in power for multiple terms... which shouldnt be a problem seeing as it is a minority government.

END OF RANT

i regret what i said earlier in the sence that i didn't read anything about the war and i felt like being racist

I'm out... I just can't keep banging my head against the same wall and really care that much after too long. Brother, you have your idea's, dare I say OPINIONS, about what's going down in the world right now. So do I. My reading comprehension is just fine, I don't see why a bunch of greedy slave owners succeeding from the country that birthed them because they were whining about paying too much tax justify's war or killing. But hey, you do.. that's just fine. As for the Islamic Extremists that are "nearly the only religion practiced in both nations" You must not be getting your daily dose of CNN or FOX... The main religeon in Iraq is Islam, but the Shia's were in power under Saddam. They weren't interested in extremism..

from Globe Index Encyclopedia...
"the Shias have continued staunchly to defend their nation and the Baath regime. They have done so despite intense propaganda barrages mounted by the Iranians, calling on them to join the Islamic revolution."

That really doesn't sound like they were suiting up to bomb an airport near you anytime soon..

BTW, I mentioned WMD only to get you going, I know how all the "Patriots" get up in arms about that debacle, maybe a little truth is painful. But THERE WERE NONE!! Bad excuse for a police action there bush. It looks like he forgot about the "cold hard facts".

Last.. and I mean last, this's it on this thread for me but you seem to take exception with me calling anyone in the US arrogant... Don't you think giving yourself the title of "the World's greatest superpower" Might sound just a little.. Arrogant?? Hmmmmmm?

Just a note about the guys and gals that joined the army and are over there fighting.

I spent just over a month working with the army. I was contracted to teach an adventure training program for them, teaching them to ski, winter camping and backcountry safety. I spent a lot of time talking about afghanistan and their point of view.

The army has all kinds. Some people join because the army recruiter convinced them that it was a fucking cool job, others because they had no other options (no money or not smart enough for Uni, generally unskilled etc). Some joined because you get to retire at 45 with a sweet pension, and some actually want to make a difference. And of course, there are plenty of crazy mutherfuckers who just like the whole idea of war. That's basically why people have joined the army.

As for afghanistan, i'd say over 60% of the guys i talked to over that month (roughly 60 soldiers) couldn't wait to go to afghanistan. That's what they joined the army for, to go to war. Most believe they are making a difference.

I spoke to several that had JUST returned from their tour, and they had plenty of examples of things they've done to help that don't make the news. The only suicide bombers that make the news are the ones that actually kill people. The news doesn't mention that the canadian military was stopping an average of 4 suicide bombers a week...mostly in crowded marketplaces. This is what they are there to do, to keep the place secure. One guy even told me about a situation where he and 3 other soldiers were in an allyway and a guy started walking towards them. They yelled at him to stop, raised their guns and the guy started running at them. They yelled again and just when they were going to waste him, he tripped, fell and exploded. Crazy shit, but they're good at identifying those situations. It's what they trained for.

The point i'm trying to make here, is that saying the war isn't right because canadian soldiers are dying there is a moot point. Most are there because that's what they signed up to do. When you join the army you sign on for 3 years, after that they can get out, and there are loop holes to get out earlier. Depending on what part of the military you join (infantry, artillary, engineer etc), you then either sign on for another 3 years, or you might have to go right into a 20 year contract. Either way, a hell of a lot of soldiers sign on for a second round..and they know what they're getting into.

That said...it's pretty fair to say it's a waste of tax payers money or bad for afghanistan...but for the most part, the soldiers are happy to go there (they get a $15000 tour bonus).

people like you and all your bleeding heart, make a difference,left wing socialist friends disgusts me. The softwood lumber tarriffs being removed will pretty much save the lumber industry in Canada (a big industry) and inject life into the stagnant ecnonmy of BC's interior. The conservative governmnent did the right thing by upgrading there prescence in afghanistan. For one thing sucking up to the US has huge benefits for our people and for trade. Sticking it to the US is so incredibly stupid it is beyond belief. They are the most fucking powerful country in the world they could fuck us over if they wanted to.And also if we got attacked by a bunch of fucktards and wanted to go to war the US would be on our side so we should do the same for them.Besides the cost of war wont fucking balance out the softwood lumber dispute and increased trade benefits to the US. It will just help our millitary grow stronger because of some much needed spending.

And for all those who hate conservatives fuck you.

we have never really not been a threat from terrorism douche bag.

canada needs to stop following US conspiracies and falsehoods and shity govt politics/war idiocities!! BE YOUR OWN COUNTRY i say this out of love so you dont make the same mistakes we have!! get out now while you still can

first off i am an american and proud of it. I do feel horrible that we have lost over 5,000 people do to attacks or war with islamic extremist. it is sad that the previous president (clinton) wouldn't take the time out of his golf game to kill bin laden,

secondly i believe that entering any sort of armed forces or guard, there is a known risk and dangers of the job. these people will risk there lives, which you or i aren't man enough to do, to protect our nation. they give me the right to speak out about our country's choices. whether i agree or not, that is not the issue. we should all thank those that are will to protect freedom. so now if the attack was on your beloved Canada and 3000 countrymen fell, would 11 more fallen brothers seem (although unwanted) reasonable?

Please if you post anything dont be so damn ignorant. First by the Wars Powers Act of the United States the President has to get autherization from Congress to use force. Congress does not have to declare war anymore unless they want to.

For Example.
Operation Enduring Freedom
Senate: 98-0 House:420-1
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Senate: 77-23 House:296-133

Also i dont see how any of this can be Cheney's or Bush's fault. 9/11 happened in his first year in NYC beacause NYC is the the beacon of freedom in the world, somthing islamic radicalists are afraid of. You cannot blame the current us administration for the problems in iraq either. The UN has done nothing and America is taking the Initiative as well as the free nations of the world.

All wars have been unpopular such as the United States Revolution. After this new era of terrorism and the growth of demcoracy we will agree as we did with the nazis that we have sqaundered evil once again and created a better world. We need leaders to lead the world and go beyond the lines to make a differance.

The only reason people think Americans are Arrogant is because we are the world leader and are proud of our nation.

I agree

This is the most ignorant reasoning I have ever herd. I just hope you are a 12 year old who has no clue about anything other than what is fed to you via the media.

Why would the USA attack Iraq for "oil supremacy" first off do you have ANY idea where Iraq stands as far as oil production world wide. And where Iraq stands now and before the war as far as our oil imports. It would be more worth while for the USA to go to war with Mexico or Canada.

fuckin stephen harper can suck my dick.

You seriously need to take a look at a document called the IRAQ RESOLUTION. This is what was signed off on by our government so the USA was able to go to war. It clearly states the reasons why Iraq was a threat. And the majority of it did NOT center around the idea of WMD. This was just what the media decided to cover because it was much more exciting than talking about how Iraq on numerous accations hid Asama Bin Laden, and also hid other members of Al-Qaeda involved in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombings. These are only two of the links that Iraq has to Al-Qaeda and their links to aiding in what was happening in Afghanistan. People need to know the real facts before they spout their own personal feelings.

I agree, loose your damn conspiracy theories it doesn't make for a resonable agrument when you present your personal feelings.

In addition I don't fully agree with the USA going to war but at least I can separate truth from fiction.

^..............

why all the hate, chill out

I wanna know what you guys think is going to happen if everyone just pulls out of Iraq like you try to pull out of your girlfriends every time you get drunk. Do you really think the terrorism is going to stop? Ever since Vietnam, the US has pulled out of every country it has occupied since Vietnam and it has fucked them over internationally. Now terrorists have faith that all they need to do is set off a few bombs and the US will go crying back home. It happened in Beirut, it happened in Somolia, it happened in Iran, and if it happens here, there will be no credibility to any kind of military action that takes place. There's no question that Bush fucked this up like nobodies business, but stop acting like this is world war III. A bomb goes off and wounds 3 people and the whole world shits its pants, its driving me crazy.

The only reason we pull out is because of cry babies that dont know what is best for the world, just because people are dieing it is wrong. Well it isnt wrong.