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if the foil has the foam core (i dont keep up on salomon skis anymore) then they will be lighter. the karmas have more metal in them and they are wood core. personally, i have the orange 181 1080s and i like how the volkls ski much more. the dont flop around when you are going fast and they carve so much better. bottom line, go karmas they are sick, way more bombproof ski. period.