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Stan "tookie" Williams

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JoeTheRipper
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 14
The creator of the crips is scheduled to die on tuesday. Do you think he deserves this fate?
Dec 8 2005 6:04PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
right on to high five.

in business law we go over all this shit. CYA and the effects of william's teachings. hes really helped more than he has hurt. who cares who organized it. the fault lies in the individuals who give it its violence
Dec 11 2005 2:05PM
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dbstar
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 20
ya i personally dont believe in the death penalty, so i dont beleive he deserves to die. Apparently he is no longer the same person, and therefore not really a threat to society. It is unfortunate that the families of the murder victims dont realize that the man scheduled to die on tuesday is mostly likely a completely diffrent man than the on who killed their wtv.
Dec 11 2005 2:10PM
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Spam_Man_1500
Posts: 1358 - Karma: 12
I think he should live. The point of jail is to try to change people. Obviously its done its job and turned this man around to see the problems in his ways. Maybe its cause I'm from the west, but I don't think the death penalty solves anything except make people more angry.
Dec 11 2005 2:12PM
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SchweitzerSki
Posts: 4479 - Karma: 11
k skogenjake no. just no. i never said there were black people, i said 2 -non white. you said the jury was all-white. WRONG. second. it had nothing to do witht he fact about his organization of the gang. HE KILLED PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO KILL OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD BE KILLED.
Dec 12 2005 4:45AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,291
yeah right, were you high when you wrote this?

This is not some plot from the American gouvernment against African Americans. This is the Judicial system, not the white house's.

Second, tookie took five lives in 2 shootouts. He never showed any sign of guilt. That is why the jury enforced the death penalty.

Finaly, the CRIP is a gang, a violent one. They don't represent justice, they represend terror. There are laws in america for preventing gangs.

That is why he deserves to die.
Dec 12 2005 10:24AM
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RichHartt1
Posts: 57 - Karma: 10
aight basically no one here has killed ne one HOPEFULLY so know one knows wats goin on in that guys head i mean hes probally feeling guilty as hell and if he has human feelings he woulld want to die 4 his crimes i no i would. killing someone isnt like beating some one up or stealing it is the worst possible sin and there is a reason 4 it if he has began to b a good person again he might not go to hell but the fucker deserves to die 4 MURDER

i believe that if he has taken the life from others he deserves the same no matter what his intentions with the gang were 4

dont kill him 4 the gang kill him 4 murder
Dec 12 2005 10:51AM
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JackieTreehorn
Posts: 166 - Karma: 10
slow down there buddy. yes i believe in retribution for your crimes. the dude has been in jail a long time, and though you can never fully be punished for taking another's life, even in the event of the death penalty, this dude has served time. probably not enough, but it is callous to say he should die without question. he is doing society good right now by writing childrens books and teaching that violence, gangs, killing, etc is wrong. he is doing good for society being alive and promoting this message. there is a good chance that his message of peace is more effective than some dude in a suit because he has actually been there and he knows where that road leads. i do agree with retribution for your crimes, but he is doing good for society through promoting peace while in prison. it is foolish to execute someone who is positively trying to change things even while behind bars.
Dec 12 2005 12:18PM
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Raoul_Duke
Posts: 584 - Karma: 17
Do you know the Ultimate lesson he can teach a kid about being a gangster?... I think you do.
Dec 12 2005 12:35PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
you are a complete idiot trying to make that minor detail apparent. no african americans on the jury for someone from urban los angelas? sounds like someone was forcing a guilty verdict.

the death penatly is wrong. your last sentence really shows who you are and what you believe. let him live, rotting in jail,but not death. its pointless.
Dec 12 2005 12:41PM
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JackieTreehorn
Posts: 166 - Karma: 10
BOOO YAHHH
Dec 12 2005 12:42PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,291
How would you feel if a murder took you mom or/and dad from you? Would you like to see him die forhis terrible act in which he does not regret? For me watching him enjoy life behind bars is not justice.

Also, remember that its you tax money that pay him to be alive. On average (without research) it costs the state 100$ per inmate per day.

Than again, in Canada we don't have the death penalty.
Dec 12 2005 12:47PM
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JackieTreehorn
Posts: 166 - Karma: 10
you are WRONG. he has expressed regret which is why he now preaches the message against violence and in favor of peace. that is why there has been a lot of controversy surrounding his imminent execution. he obviously committed atrocious crimes, but he understands that and had made it his new mission in life to help others.
Dec 12 2005 12:51PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,291
Why doesn't he help police track down other murderes in the gang? Undo the first mistake that put him on death row?
Dec 12 2005 2:41PM
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Jessbuff
Posts: 2685 - Karma: 17
This post makes me want to wretch! How can you even say this?

I think it is sick to even think that someone would enjoy or find consolation in the death penalty. To me, the death penalty represents a barbaric and outright archaic way of dealing with problems.

Secondly, how can you bring money into this? That's disgusting. You are saying that you would rather kill people than see your tax payer dollars go towards keeping them alive. What is wrong with you? Why don't you just kill handicapped people rather than give them disability pay each month?
Dec 12 2005 2:55PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
yeah freestyler540, you got alot of support on that one. fucking idiot.

and no i wouldnt wish the death penalty on someone if they killed my parents. life in prison without parole to think about what they did for the rest of their life instead of ending it sounds better. then they might find the error in their ways, like tookie did. he doesnt deserve to die, but he shouldnt be let out either. hes not harming anyone ever again. the discrimination in the trial was just a small part of my reasoning behind it.
Dec 12 2005 3:03PM
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JackieTreehorn
Posts: 166 - Karma: 10
you suck
Dec 12 2005 3:24PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13045 - Karma: 18,291
Since when did I talk about the disabled? Im talking about concious killers, not skezofrenics. Mental illness is one thing, murderers is diffrent. You have to understand the diffrence.

I know that my post was blunt and gross. But that is the real world, not some "perfect" imaginary scene. I don't hide from the attrocities, I don't close my eyes and think everything is all right because it isn't.

There is a fine line between justice and revenge. Justice is done in a just, equal, lawful way. Revenge is personnal and unlawful. The death penalty is both in a way. It payes back the personal's debt to the country and satisfies the personnal revenge for the victim or the victim's family.

Im not an inhuman person, I don't enjoy seeing murders.In fact, I have so much compation for the victims and not for the offender. If he is proven innocent in a court of law, I still say that there is a mad man on the loose in society. I have a hard time watching America's most wanted because I feel so bad for the innocent victims.

What other way are we supposed to punish a monster with no conscious? Torture? freedom? I don't think so either. Torture is cruel. In prison, he may escape and keep killing or go on parole and return to crime, putting future victims lives on the line.

The money argument was made you open your eyes of the U.S. penetentury system. Will you give money to those who take lives, even people close to you? A prison is a place for punishment, in which the death penalty is the ultimate. I leave my final argument: Will you let a man like BTK live, even if he thinks his actions are acceptable?

Now this part is about me. I'm not a dumbfuck or a monster. I'm a person that supports the death penalty and my reasons are in my posts. My arguments are still humain and done in a respectful matter. Im open to counter arguments but I hate hearing stuff like: "you incourage killing and terrorism" or "kill handicapped people". I hate false analogies and attacks against my person. I will say it now I am not pro-life. I'm not Christian. I live by my own values.For many, my values are diffrent from others. I tolerate other people opinion and I want mine tolerated too. It does not mean that you must accept it.I always keep an open mind, but expect my critacism.
Dec 12 2005 3:36PM
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dbstar
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 20
does anyone here find the premise of a death penalty a bit disturbing? and very innapropriate.
Dec 12 2005 3:40PM
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Jessbuff
Posts: 2685 - Karma: 17
I don't necessarily agree with you, but I respect what you've just said.
Dec 12 2005 3:42PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
yeah typing alot doesnt make you sound more correct when you say things like

"In prison, he may escape and keep killing or go on parole and return to crime, putting future victims lives on the line."

yes. life is like tv. that happens too much that they escape. parole for a murderer? not likley. especially for tookie. you act like you can justify taking a human life. there isnt any arguement that can really change the meaning behind that. he isnt taking up any noticible amount of your taxes. him or anyone else on death row. its alot A LOT less than you think you know. this cant be justified over the cost. that point is just stupid. your points are honestly the lamest arguements ive heard. at least kids in my law class had some actual ideas. you really cant think that far. just stop. he doesnt deserve/need to die.
Dec 12 2005 3:47PM
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bigair182
Posts: 168 - Karma: 10
from cnn.com :

Clemency bid denied for gang killer
BREAKING NEWS

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger denied clemency today for convicted killer Stanley Tookie Williams, saying the facts of the case do not justify blocking his scheduled execution. Williams, a convicted killer and co-founder of the Crips gang, is due to die by injection shortly after midnight local time at San Quentin State Prison. Williams' death sentence sparked a debate over capital punishment, with his supporters claiming he should be able to live because he is now a changed man who writes books leading children away from gang life.
Dec 12 2005 3:51PM
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KingShit
Posts: 4483 - Karma: 7
This isn't supposed to sway any opinions but damn!

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
Dec 12 2005 4:42PM
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SchweitzerSki
Posts: 4479 - Karma: 11
ah it's good to have this thread back.
Dec 12 2005 5:06PM
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SchweitzerSki
Posts: 4479 - Karma: 11
hahahahahahahaha! good work. good work. oh no not on correctly identifiying who i am, but by being the 300th person to try and guess who i am, incorrectly. now can i guess what you are?
k i'm guessing you're some 200 pound black dude who's a member of some gang in L.A. ya, you seem real hard. oh no? that's wrong? k let me guess again. you're some fake-ass white kid who talks like a gangster on newschoolers and who skis and thinks he's a real balla. sit down you little bitch
Dec 12 2005 5:14PM
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guillermolongjon2
Posts: 648 - Karma: 10
damn. tookies jacked!
Dec 12 2005 6:35PM
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weazelzb
Posts: 4454 - Karma: 12
death penalty is wrong. let him live... killing him wont bring back the ones he killed and he can help make a positive difference (to some extent). unfortunatly, decisions alerady been made, he will die.
Dec 12 2005 6:55PM
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PimpDaddySkier
Posts: 4221 - Karma: 20
by killing him it shows all people on death row have no chance of righting their wrongs
Dec 12 2005 6:58PM
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Ski-hobo
Posts: 7121 - Karma: 15
they do, by dying
Dec 12 2005 7:01PM
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Jessbuff
Posts: 2685 - Karma: 17
And that's exactly why you don't elect the fucking TERMINATOR as your governor.

I bet in the press conference he was like "Hasta la vista, Tookie."
Dec 12 2005 7:03PM
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sunvalleyskibum
Posts: 1223 - Karma: 11
regardless, he has a point. people shouldnt talk about things they dont understand.
Dec 12 2005 8:32PM
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Ghost82nd
Posts: 1240 - Karma: 10
haha i laughed out loud on that one but seriously...
the reason i dont kill people is because 1) its bad 2) i sure as hell dont want to get the death penalty or even go to prison

not everyone in this world is a "good person" but a lot of you seem to think that everyone is good on the inside but the fact is youre wrong. tehre are people who are not even deterred by jail, even though most people know how bad jail is. these types of people do not feel bad for what they did. telling yourself that is just sheltering yourself from the truth. THERE ARE BAD PEOPLE IN THE WORLD! tookie has not shown remorse or apologized for what happened to the families. he is writing these books and doing these activities because his lawyers probably told him he should. now that may not be true, but when you think LOGICALLY and not like the world is a fairytale, it is probably what is going on.

death is the ultimate deterent. by giving him clemency you are just tells people that you can slip by the consequences by telling people that what you did was bad. yes its bad...and yes..you should live up to the consequences.

oh btw...dont try to act hard on this site. if youre on here its because you ski and people who ski are rich. face it! you are not from some ghetto in LA
Dec 12 2005 8:51PM
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SchweitzerSki
Posts: 4479 - Karma: 11
are you saying i don't understand? i understand perfectly the entire damn thing. k this isnt about how many books he wrote on anti-gang speeches, and it has nothing to do with how good of a person he is now. he was sentenced to death in the 80's and that sentence is being carried out. he killed 4 people cuz he was a low-life thug. i don't necessarily agree with the death penalty, but it was the sentence he was given and should be taken out, no debate
Dec 12 2005 8:57PM
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awsomecoolguy
Posts: 3536 - Karma: 13
i'm a self proclaimed blood so i'm wearing a red head band tomarow
Dec 12 2005 8:57PM
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Ghost82nd
Posts: 1240 - Karma: 10
i think he might have been with you on that one. i think he was talking about the people who are trying to be hard. but i agree with both of you if thats the case
Dec 12 2005 8:58PM
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MitchPee
Posts: 8871 - Karma: 1,510
If you have a life in prison sentence you should be shot dead.
Dec 12 2005 9:00PM
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O-Show
Posts: 696 - Karma: 13
has anyone been watching the news tonight? there have been alot of protests in LA today for "tookie" and now that hes gunna be killed im just wondering if were gunna see some kind of uproar from his supporters if so anyone think this could get out of hand?
Dec 12 2005 9:24PM
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*Fujative*
Posts: 8554 - Karma: 183
holy shit, he is ripped like crazy
Dec 12 2005 9:26PM
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Ghost82nd
Posts: 1240 - Karma: 10
i would imagine so...just like the LA riots. people so fuckin stupid that they would burn down their own home to show people that they are just not very happy with the decision. but we will see...i hope people arent that stupid
Dec 12 2005 9:27PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
you interpreted what i said into what you wanted to hear. i acknowladge there are bad people. that tookie is a bad person. i just dont find strapping him down and killing him after all these years to be a really good solution here. what does that accomplish that life in prison cant? why is there pleasure/justicifation in that alternative? are we not a civilized culture. can we not see killing him is pointless. let him live. let him rot in jail. there he can at least try to keep trying to push for the good in things. his anti gang speeches kept kids from entering crime filled lives. thats fact. the dealth penalty is just...stupid.
Dec 12 2005 9:36PM
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JackieTreehorn
Posts: 166 - Karma: 10
RIP Tookie. FUCK arnold!
Dec 13 2005 7:44AM
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Lil_Gordian
Posts: 648 - Karma: 8
dat muthafucka be dead!
Dec 13 2005 10:54AM
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Kevo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 136
yeah...he is dead
Dec 13 2005 10:55AM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
the idea here, i think is the thought that the death penalty should be a deterrant. the best bet sort of idea. you institute the type of punishment that you think will best dissuade people from committing capital crimes to begin with. its got nothing to do with retribution, at least as far as the state is concerned.

theres a good chance that the families of murder victims find the retributive side appealing, but thats not the overall intent with the institution of capital punishment.

i dont really think it works all that well. obviously people still commit captial crimes in states that have the death penalty, and in significant numbers. the problem, of course, is that its unlikely that people sit down and consider the fact that they are going to be caught and executed for their acts. i dont think any murderer ever really expects to get caught... so the idea of a deterant is kind of useless there...

nevertheless, thats how things are for now.
Dec 13 2005 11:53AM
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eastAR5
Posts: 15084 - Karma: 730
word
Dec 13 2005 12:03PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,881
um, sure...let him die
Dec 13 2005 12:56PM
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NBCskier
Posts: 3877 - Karma: -289
what the shit are you talking about, he fucking killed a family, how is teaching about how gangs are bad helping more than he had already hurt.
Dec 13 2005 1:01PM
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skogenjake
Posts: 6685 - Karma: 511
i understand what you are saying. honestly i feel being locked away for life with nothing to think about but what you did and what you could potentially do because of it is a more effective punishment. the threat of being alone in a cell for the rest of your life should scare anyone as much as death if not more. also, who knows, he or she may be innocent. i just read about a man who was in jail for 25 years before DNA evidence was found that proved him innocent. im not saying tookie was innocent. im saying we shouldnt end his life. tookie wasnt afraid of death. one of the last things he said was that there was happiness in his heart. why should we end that? is it a judge and jury's decision? he should pay for his actions. having a confined life does that. its a "correctional institute" anyways why not do just that? for me this isnt about his retrebution, his nobel prize nominations, his books...but more its about a life that was unnecessarily ended.
Dec 13 2005 3:20PM
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pedmiqueo
Posts: 863 - Karma: 9
yo! Dat Tookie foo is from a different gang. He don't rep da 3 fingas like my gang. East Side Dripz fo life niggas!
Dec 13 2005 4:29PM
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SmoKinSkier
Posts: 5501 - Karma: 20
By now no one is reading anyway but...

We should have kept him alive even if it was found his influence was small on gangs which i think it was much bigger...its worth the extra tax dollars to keep him alive to write on anti gang becuz the government is goin to spend our tax dollars on it ignorantly anyway!!
Dec 13 2005 4:36PM
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sconniestyle
Posts: 3945 - Karma: 26
he would be a martyr about the problems with the death penalty. what they mean is that he wasnt expecting to be released, but he was doing positive things with anti-gang and anti-violence literature, so activists of abolishing the death penalty would turn to this case as an example of someone who had turned his life around and didnt deserve to die anymore due to positive societal contributions.
Dec 13 2005 4:43PM
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