I would never ski with this guy - Ski Gabber

Rusticles
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Jan 4 2013
1:09:52AM

Quoting NinetyFour$ from Jan 4 2013 12:30:55:
If the skier was completely buried and wasn't visible, then everyone with a beacon would have to turn theirs to search and work in a pattern depending how many people there is. Then they would all have to probe 'on a line' doing a search for the skier, then dig the skier out once located. There's more to it then that but that's my understanding of it at the basics of it. Not sure why he was getting the beacon though? Maybe in the event of a secondary slide? Still weird that he needed her pack, her beacon, and then no one could find a shovel handle... Ha, so many questions! They'll all never be answered though.

For probing, if I remember correctly, I thought it was 1 person probing circular outward from the closest beacon measurement and everyone else ready to dig. That's how we have been practicing anyways, I could be wrong though.

NinetyFour$
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Jan 4 2013
1:18:12AM

Quoting Rusticles from Jan 4 2013 1:09:52:
For probing, if I remember correctly, I thought it was 1 person probing circular outward from the closest beacon measurement and everyone else ready to dig. That's how we have been practicing anyways, I could be wrong though.

Woops. Aha, I worded stuff really poorly. Yeah that's right. The probing on a line is to find your lowest numbered measurment, and then from there probe outwards in circle.

secret fucking SNOWBALL mission...

Chaitea, "The best gloves are mittens."

Park Guy, "Everytime it snows my dick takes a beating."

NinetyFour$
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Jan 4 2013
1:35:16AM

Dub post but for clarity, probing on a line is also referred to as bracketing I think. And yeah only 1 person should be doing this part of the fine search while another gets ready to probe for a pinpoint search.

secret fucking SNOWBALL mission...

Chaitea, "The best gloves are mittens."

Park Guy, "Everytime it snows my dick takes a beating."

liftedresearch…
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Jan 4 2013
2:05:44AM

do you have any idea what you're talking about? bracketing has nothing to do with probing. its a part of the fine beacon search.

Ski in Peace Will Schooler. Peace and love buddy.

Tanner-D
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Jan 4 2013
2:23:37AM

They all should have had beacons to begin with and shovels and probes and the proper fucking training to perform an avalanche rescue

http://vimeo.com/tannerdegiovanni
http://tannerdegiovanni.tumblr.com/

Rusticles
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Jan 4 2013
3:25:15AM

Quoting liftedresearch… from Jan 4 2013 2:05:44:
do you have any idea what you're talking about? bracketing has nothing to do with probing. its a part of the fine beacon search.

no need to get your panties in a bunch.

Some techniques for bracketing involve using a probe laid flat on the surface of the snow to do your fine beacon search.

Gfunkrussell
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Jan 4 2013
4:26:09AM

There is a lot to be learned from this video... and it's a great way to see how the brain stops working sometimes, especially under extreme stress. Considering the size of that slide that would definitely put a lot of stress on anyone. Staying calm, using logical judgement and practicing good habits is essential.

1-Is it safe?

2-Turn all beacons onto search mode.

3-Use last visual as a reference

4-execute a plan, decide who is in charge and work together (in this situation, they saved who knows how long with their visual vs. beacon skills).

5-Communicate and have others prepare shovel and probe.

6-Expose an airway to the victim.

7-Shoveling from bellow is a lot easier than above...

I could go on and on and people may argue with the above but get educated, know your BC partners inside and out, practice with your shit! build good habits, be productive instead of responsive, and always try to minimize risk. Great learning video imo...

CrotchKiller$
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Jan 4 2013
4:50:36AM

Quoting liftedresearch… from Jan 4 2013 2:05:44:
do you have any idea what you're talking about? bracketing has nothing to do with probing. its a part of the fine beacon search.

this

Vimeo
http://vimeo.com/j8kee

grambo
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Jan 4 2013
5:36:11AM

Quoting CartelCrew from Jan 1 2013 3:11:59:
Man, the rescuer was like an archeologist. He may have been more comfortable using a brush.

Hahaha best post I've read all week, 10/10.

How can a person not know where their gear is? Let alone people travelling in the backcountry WITHOUT gear with new snow?!?! This is a true backcountry slope, not lift accessed at all and it's mid-winter. Mind boggling.

AJizzle
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Jan 4 2013
6:36:49AM

This baffles me. The fact that he posted this to you tube and is not so horribly ashamed of what happened here is Fucking scary. If that guy was inches underneath the surface and they didn't have a visual I'm pretty certain that guy would be dead. If that was me on that video I would be so ashamed of what happened that no one would ever see that video, let alone be proud enough of it to post it to Fucking YouTube.

What Would Sal Masekela Do?
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Ciara
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Jan 4 2013
7:13:43AM

Fucking twat

.

" I was just too big of a dick wrinkled faggot " -HotAssBeatClap

NinetyFour$
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Jan 4 2013
7:51:39AM

Quoting Rusticles from Jan 4 2013 3:25:15:
no need to get your panties in a bunch. Some techniques for bracketing involve using a probe laid flat on the surface of the snow to do your fine beacon search.

Yes, so you can make sure to keep moving in a straight line, and then perpendicular to that line. Just a good reference to keep yourself from rotating the track tracker aswell.

secret fucking SNOWBALL mission...

Chaitea, "The best gloves are mittens."

Park Guy, "Everytime it snows my dick takes a beating."

Theron.
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Jan 4 2013
8:05:45AM

Dudes whining about his hands being cold while his buddy is dying. What a fucking kook.

"One little kid died trying to be me" - Krob

‎"Skiing could use more Shane McConkey's, and fewer outsiders looking to make money off it." - Derek Taylor.

"with all due respect get fucked. dont your ever talk to the man like that ever again. the internet is an amazing tool. i will find you " - Marg.

SIP Shane
SIP CR
SIP Sarah

dadunda$
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Jan 4 2013
9:10:37AM

Threads to watch when not on mobile

Have you ever had a dream that you...that...um...you....that...could....want....that...you wanted do you so much you could do anything?

CoachJabroni
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Jan 4 2013
11:47:45AM

i dont know shit about the back country but it doesnt take an expert to figuer out that this guy was a dipshit put on some fucking gloves and dig the poor guy out

manabadman
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Jan 4 2013
1:03:52PM

AGGHHH the guy in the navy jacket who just sat there and couldn't find the shaft for the shovel and did absolutely nothing to help HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU NOT FIND A LARGE LONG METAL POLE IN A BACKPACK it isn't rocket surgery. All of them seemed to be a dithering bunch of morons, apart from the buried skier who did a great job of keeping cool amongst such incompetence.

papermache
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Jan 4 2013
1:18:30PM

threads for after work when videos will load

Nacho_Macho_man
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Jan 4 2013
1:27:35PM

That other guy was just sitting there, why didn't he just dig him out with his hands! That was so hard to watch

------------------------------------
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Sam.Wise
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Jan 4 2013
5:46:34PM

Quoting Nacho_Macho_man from Jan 4 2013 1:27:35:
That other guy was just sitting there, why didn't he just dig him out with his hands! That was so hard to watch

Yeah, that dude in the gray just stood there like it was nothing. So frustrating,

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RedPanda$
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Jan 4 2013
6:26:11PM

I don't even.. gah that was frustrating

When a husband and a wife love each other very much, they hug eachother real close. When Jesus sees them hug like this, he smiles. That night when the mommy and daddy are sleeping, Jesus flies down to earth, into their house through the chimney and into their bedroom. Then he takes off the mommy's underwear and pees in her butt. 9 months later, the mommy poops out a baby. And that's the miracle of life. - JohnLemieuxPHOTO

skiEER$
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Jan 4 2013
8:17:10PM

the guy who shot this video was not the one who posted this to YouTube. It was posted by the local avalanche center. I give them credit for allowing them to post it. It is educational in a sense of looking at and seeing what they should have done better. Bottom line is they should not have been out there with only 2 people having gear in a group of five. I believe on the day this happened the avalanche danger was moderate with pockets considerable. You can see the full writeup on http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/

NinetyFour$
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Jan 4 2013
9:10:14PM

Quoting skiEER$ from Jan 4 2013 8:17:10:
the guy who shot this video was not the one who posted this to YouTube. It was posted by the local avalanche center. I give them credit for allowing them to post it. It is educational in a sense of looking at and seeing what they should have done better. Bottom line is they should not have been out there with only 2 people having gear in a group of five. I believe on the day this happened the avalanche danger was moderate with pockets considerable. You can see the full writeup on http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/

Dope! Thanks for shedding some good insight on the video.

secret fucking SNOWBALL mission...

Chaitea, "The best gloves are mittens."

Park Guy, "Everytime it snows my dick takes a beating."

skiEER$
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Jan 4 2013
11:07:41PM

here is the statement from the party involved

I know that our party, the party involved in the December 29th incident on Echo Peak, made numerous mistakes. I chose to make the helmet cam video available to Sierra Avalanche Center so that others could learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. As the leader of the party, I take full credit for all of the mistakes and want to document what I've learned from them.

The first mistake was taking an inexperienced, ill-equipped group into the backcountry. Every member of the party should have been carrying a beacon, probe, and shovel. Additionally every member of the party should have been trained in avalanche safety. We only had two complete kits among our party of five, carried by the female skier in the video and by me, the skier who was caught in the slide. The other three members of the party were complete novices in the backcountry, able to ski black diamonds at a resort, but with no experience out of bounds. As the party leader, I should never have taken the group up Echo Peak, but I let the party's excitement about the day sway my decision. I made a bad decision.

The second mistake I made was allowing the excitement in the group to override sound decision making. Two of the inexperienced members of the party had never summited Echo. Safety and snow pack conditions dictated turning the group around at tree line and descending the ridge crest. However, I let emotion make the decision and allowed the party to continue above tree line to the summit. This decision required descending the slope directly above the ridge terminus. A slope that I knew was prone to sliding under the right circumstances, and having kept abreast of conditions, I knew conditions were conducive to an an avalanche. Again, I made a bad decision.

We skied one at a time from the crest to a safe zone in the trees at the start of the ridge proper, but I made my third mistake by choosing to ski a line slightly skier's left of the safest line to the meeting point in the trees. The female skier in the group asked that I not ski that line, but I let my emotions once again get the better of me. The several turns in untracked snow on a 45 degree slope were just too tempting. My intentions were to ski to skier's left of the large rocks where the slide released from, then veer hard to skier's right and meet the party on the ridge. I knew that the slope was convex. I knew that there was a rock band below my intended route. My thoughts were, "I've skied this line before. It's only a few turns." I made a very bad decision. Fortunately I have been able to kick myself repeatedly for it.

Once the slope let go, I was helpless. Everything I'd ever heard, read, or talked about went through my mind. Stay on top. Get your feet downhill. Backstroke. Remember to create an air pocket when the slide slows. Punch a hand towards the sky. The truth is that I was at the mercy of the snow. I went over the rock step head first on my back. Fortunately, I didn't crater on impact and end up buried by the rest of the snow as it came over the edge. Instead, I was rag dolled out of my crater and ended up somehow close to the surface. I was able to punch one fist upward as the slide slowed, but otherwise was completely unable to move. Everything was black and the urge to panic was overwhelming. After repeatedly telling myself to calm down, I was able to clear an airway with my free hand. Then all I could do was wait. I was very lucky.

Much has been made on various forums about the way that the skier with the helmet cam handled the rescue. He has been flamed for taking his gloves off, for telling the female skier with the beacon to take her time in transitioning the gear to him, for not putting the handle in the shovel, ad infinitum. The truth is, I am proud of the way he, a novice at avalanche rescue, handled the situation. He knew that the female skier was panicking and had to keep her calm. He knew that the whole party shouldn't descend to the burial site. He left two people on the ridge to watch the hangfire. Then he descended to the burial site with a partner, one at a time, in a controlled manner. In debriefing after the incident, we discussed what he could have done differently. It goes without saying that he should have left his gloves on. Other than that, there are two possible scenarios. First scenario:Once the skier in the black jacket had located my glove above the debris, the one unburied probe and beacon should have been left on the ridge. That way a beacon/probe search could have been initiated in the case of a secondary avalanche burying the rescue party. Second scenario: My glove was located above the debris, but what if my hand wasn't in it? Seen from 100 meters away, it was impossible to tell. If the beacon and probe were left on the ridge, that would have led to additional delays in getting the rescue gear to the burial and would have put one more skier in the path of a secondary release. As for the unassembled shovel, I have to take credit for that mistake. I should have made sure that the entire party knew where the rescue gear was located and how to assemble it before ever leaving the trailhead. Finally, my rescuer didn't relinquish shoveling duties to his partner once his hands started to freeze. He could have either taken the time to get gloves on his wet hands, or asked the skier in the black jacket to continue digging while he warmed his hands.

I'm sure that there are many more lessons to learn from this incident. That is the reason that I chose to let Sierra Avalanche Center make the video public. My hope was that I would receive constructive criticism and maybe force other people to review their decisions and the process by which they make those decisions. I knew that we would be flamed for our mistakes, but I'll take the flames if my mistakes will help keep others safe. My hope also is that all of the flaming does not discourage others from making public their mistakes, so that we, the backcountry community, can learn from each other. We all make mistakes, some of us more than others, I am sure, but we all make mistakes. I've watched countless avalanche videos and thought, "What an idiot!" "Why'd the dude do that?" or "That guy is completely clueless." Guess this time I'm the idiot and the clueless one. Hopefully, because I chose to share this video, you won't be the clueless one if or when things go wrong."

usace$
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Jan 4 2013
11:39:28PM

Quoting skiEER$ from Jan 4 2013 11:07:41:
here is the statement from the party involved

that was pretty cool of him

Yeah, well, that's just, like... your opinion, man.

NinetyFour$
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Jan 5 2013
12:25:45AM

Quoting usace$ from Jan 4 2013 11:39:28:
that was pretty cool of him

No kidding, super humble of the guy to take lots of the heat. But I think it really deflates the situation and just gives us a great in-depth look at it. Looking back, I guess the rescuers action's were only educated guesses on how to do a rescue, so you have to give him some credit for the the whole thing. Then there were loads of variables that the rescuer couldn't have controlled pre-avy like knowing where he handle was located in the pack. Super awesome learning experience for everyone in my opinion.

secret fucking SNOWBALL mission...

Chaitea, "The best gloves are mittens."

Park Guy, "Everytime it snows my dick takes a beating."

LoganShred
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Jan 5 2013
11:34:12AM

Why would he leave his gloves up there

-dAvE-

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Jan 5 2013
12:14:04PM

That was rlly brutal to watch. I don't understand how someone could take their time this much when their friend is buried in snow... I'd be down there in a second digging with or without shovel. And how about the guy behind him.. why isnt he trying to help out?!

snurfsup
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Jan 5 2013
12:45:21PM

thats fucked up

dude so pitted

djcreen
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Jan 5 2013
1:09:44PM

"take your time, take your time."

Such a lack of urgency. Idiot!

skiEER$
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Jan 5 2013
8:56:46PM

so I posted a response from the burial victim in the comments on unofficialnetworks.com that i SAW ON the sierra avalanche center site and they thought it was directly from me. now they made a new article saying I was the victim. Pretty poor journalism skills.

jblaski
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Jan 5 2013
10:04:43PM

Quoting skiEER$ from Jan 5 2013 8:56:46:
so I posted a response from the burial victim in the comments on unofficialnetworks.com that i SAW ON the sierra avalanche center site and they thought it was directly from me. now they made a new article saying I was the victim. Pretty poor journalism skills.

Unofficial and "Journalism" should never be used together. Yes, the site is entertaining (and I enjoy it), but anyone that reposts articles multiple times when it's slow, isn't a news source.

Bi-winter: Proud skier and snowboarder.

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killakurt
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Jan 5 2013
10:36:38PM

yeessh! had a knot in my stomach watching that, hate to think what couldve happened if the guys hand wasnt sticking out..

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GlackAttack
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Jan 5 2013
11:00:17PM

Quoting lukemeahan. from Jan 3 2013 4:12:26:
I felt like he wanted that guy to die. That was difficult to watch

I feel the same exact way.

I'm glad he was exposed or that could have been even more of a shit show than it already was

DingoSean$
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Jan 5 2013
11:20:31PM

After the avy, I thought for about 12 seconds that maybe the skier was some type of robot or something, and these guys were just doing some training... in a completely wrong way that lacked any urgency?

Then I remembered, oh yeah, there's no such thing as skiing robots, and these guys must just be dumb as fucking nails... shit dude... I feel embarrassed as a skier thanks to these fools.

Have a nice day, Bluename.
☭нс коммунистического☭
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DingoSean$
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Jan 5 2013
11:47:06PM

Also. I can't believe they went up Echo Peak under those conditions. I read the disclaimer that the dude posted, and I wouldn't have even ventured up there under a situation where I had a party of 5 fully equipped, and rescue educated skiers.. Like he said, really bad decision. They should have picked a better location for venturing into the backcountry, or waited a few days.

I know that area of Desolation Wilderness to a pretty decent extent, and, though I have not summited Echo in the wintertime, I have skied 3 mountains very close to it during late Winter/Spring in low avalanche conditions (those being Angora, Tallac, and Cathedral Peak). The area is GNARLY to say the least.

Here's the Area in Summertime. This is the North Facing side.

It consists of super smoothed out rocks cascading down from glacier activity that just rolled down over the summit. This leads to many unstable pockets. This is basically what most of the mountains look like in the general area. They tend to be more prone to avalanches than a lot of the mountains in the tahoe basin. Ultimately, if you're a novice, there's not a way in fucking hell you should be out there... especially unequipped and uneducated. Far many more places in the Tahoe BC that would have been smarter to venture out to.

Have a nice day, Bluename.
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Malcolm

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Jan 6 2013
7:21:26PM

Quoting *Hons*$ from Jan 1 2013 4:24:30:
8:30 what the fuck was he doing

He was casting a digging spell

http://shredsauce.com/

Literature

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Jan 6 2013
7:54:17PM

Quoting djcreen from Jan 5 2013 1:09:44:
"take your time, take your time." Such a lack of urgency. Idiot!

Did you read the statement by the guy who got buried? The rescuer was a novice. No bc training at all. He did really well for the circumstances.

And efficiency is the goal. Do it right, do it once. It pays to take a few seconds if they can save you a few minutes down the road.

Thank Ullr that the visual cues were there. This could have well been a fatality if that had been the case. But the point is well taken: know your partners. Have your gear. Study your terrain via forecast and direct observations on comparable slopes. And never be afraid to back down from something that could be questionable.

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Ehball
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Jan 7 2013
12:01:37PM

this vid made lol so much hahaha. the guy helping him out was too funny to watch

84west$
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Jan 9 2013
8:01:58PM

Quoting Ehball from Jan 7 2013 12:01:37:
this vid made lol so much hahaha. the guy helping him out was too funny to watch

I don't mean to be a dick, but people who don't know what their doing in the backcountry isn't funny. The skier who was buried got lucky, not just that he wasn't completely buried, but that no one else was. When you make poor decisions in the backcountry you can potentially kill yourself and others. While watching him struggle with the basic task of digging a hole may have been funny, the context of the situation makes this video anything but funny.

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Peter.$
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Jan 9 2013
10:14:31PM

seeing someone buried under the snow even that much is terrifying

just think of the wads darth vader could conjure if he force choked his chicken
- Anathema

i would fuck the shit out of oprah.
- pomme-de-terre

Quak
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Jan 10 2013
9:35:59AM

Quoting NinetyFour$ from Jan 4 2013 12:30:55:
If the skier was completely buried and wasn't visible, then everyone with a beacon would have to turn theirs to search and work in a pattern depending how many people there is. Then they would all have to probe 'on a line' doing a search for the skier, then dig the skier out once located. There's more to it then that but that's my understanding of it at the basics of it. Not sure why he was getting the beacon though? Maybe in the event of a secondary slide? Still weird that he needed her pack, her beacon, and then no one could find a shovel handle... Ha, so many questions! They'll all never be answered though.

http://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/node/3156

There is the report, two transceivers, two probes and two shovels for five people.

They are idiots.

I would never ski with th - Ski Gabber - Forums

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