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Subject: Obama Believes He Can’t Be Wrong.
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LiberalSkier
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Jul 30 2012
10:52:04AM

President Obama says very strange things, especially for a guy who presumably wants very badly to be re-elected. As if it wasn’t enough that he last week went off on small business owners for having pride in their accomplishments, this week he actually told a rally audience in reference to the economy – with a straight face – “We tried our plan, and it worked.”

It almost seems gratuitous to start citing all the numbers that obliterate this claim – the 8.2 percent unemployment, the anemic 1.5 percent GDP growth this past quarter, the soaring federal deficit that will top $1 trillion yet again this year. It’s like when the head coach of a 1-15 NFL team tries to make the case that his team is really good. Why sit there and debate him? You just nod your head and think to yourself, “Whatever you say, Coach.”

Yet I think Obama demonstrates something important about himself, and about many politicians like him, when he makes such a claim. For certain people who are so deeply steeped in their ideology, their plan cannot conceivably have failed because their ideas are correct by definition. If they tried their plan and the economy is still awful, it must be because someone else came along and messed up their unassailable brilliance.

The stimulus didn’t produce enough economic growth? Republicans wouldn’t let them spend even more!

The deficit is still out of control? Republicans won’t let them raise taxes on the rich!

Unemployment is still way too high? Greedy businesses are hording cash and not hiring people!

Regulation is crushing business growth? Those horrible CEOs need to stop resisting the government’s wise rules and do what they’re told.

When you’re convinced from the start that your ideas are foolproof, and that any failure must be the result of sabotage, then you’re relieved of the burden of ever re-assessing your ideas. They can’t possibly be the problem! They’re right!

Of course, in spite of the fact that Obama makes all of the above excuses, he does not acknowledge that overall failure has occurred. Remember, “It worked.” That’s what he said.

And this is the other side of the pathological equation. You and I look at the horrible numbers and say, “That sure doesn’t look like success to me.” All Obama has to do is claim the numbers would have been even worse without his policies. It’s absurd but you can’t prove it’s untrue, so it’s good enough for him. He can point to the collapse of the mortgage market, the sharp decline in GDP that occurred during the fourth quarter of 2008 and the rapid collapse that was occurring when he took office – and then he can claim to have stemmed the tide.

When you point out that this is the weakest economic recovery in a century, he and his supporters claim that the so-called “Great Recession” was a unique and special event and that the usual rapid recovery we see after recessions should have not been expected in this case.

Of course, the Obama Administration’s own predictions belie that claim. They said in 2009 that they needed to pass the stimulus to keep unemployment from topping 8 percent. After the stimulus passed, it soared above 10 percent and still hasn’t fallen below 8 percent. Oops! They predicted that economic growth this year would be 3 percent. Halfway through the year, it’s less than 2 percent and it’s just about statistically impossible it will get anywhere near 3 percent. Never mind!

This is failure no matter how you cut it. But you can’t tell that to Obama and his economic team. They decided long ago that their ideas never fail and cannot fail. You picture Obama like the mad professor standing alone in his lab and looking befuddled because his latest concoction didn’t perform whatever magic function he was expecting: “No! It can’t be wrong! It has to work!”

That mad professor is going to try the same concoction again and again, convinced that he will get the result he wants – no matter how brutally the facts smack him in the face. And if re-elected, Obama will do the same. Even now, when he desperately needs to come up with something that will sell the voters on re-electing him, all he can come up with is more spending proposals and more class warfare. It’s the same stuff he’s been doing since he took office, and the rest of us can see that it hasn’t worked – but don’t tell that to the mad professor.

He is always right. The problem is the rest of you – you ungrateful business owners, you rascally Republicans, you dumb people who don’t really know how much worse it would have been without Obama’s steady hand at the wheel.

The rest of us sit there with jaws on the floor, thinking, “Did he really say that?” But it makes perfect sense to the pathological mad professor who is sadly alone in recognizing his own brilliance.

The Measure of a Man is What He Does With Power. No its the woman in his arms cuz she has big titties.

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3termzobama2016
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Jul 30 2012
10:54:54AM
we president now
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ColinB
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Jul 30 2012
10:59:36AM
EVERYBODY VOTE REPUBLICAN! IT WILL OBVIOUSLY SAVE THE WORLD!...

-_______________-
hey JWoods, whats the difference between a rodeo and a flatspin?
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iRapeKittens
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Jul 30 2012
10:59:50AM
lol government
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LiberalSkier
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Jul 30 2012
11:02:35AM
I also wanted to note that I am not one to try and start a shit storm because I've been there back in the day and am pretty much over getting involved in them. But the fact that there are millions of people in this country who believe in what Obama has to say is a complete and total mind fuck for me. I will seriously sit down to try and contemplate why these people believe in this man and his policies but I cannot come up with an answer. It is seriously the ultimate mind fuck for me because I truly feel that we should be doing the complete opposite of what Obama is doing.


The Measure of a Man is What He Does With Power. No its the woman in his arms cuz she has big titties.

Formally used to be BreadMold

"old enough to bleed old enough for your seed"-Gator
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LiberalSkier
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Jul 30 2012
11:12:15AM
Quoting ColinB from Jul 30 2012 10:59:36:
EVERYBODY VOTE REPUBLICAN! IT WILL OBVIOUSLY SAVE THE WORLD!... -_______________-
I really don't see how it could be any worse. I mean whats going to happen if we do? Its not like we'll go spiraling into debt because thats already happening. We wont see a rise in the unemployment cause thats already happening. Its not like we risk seeing an intense class warfare because..... do you get where Im going.

I say we vote republican because they'll bring something else to the table because whats there right now obviously isn't working. Seriously, there is no risk in voting for a Republican because we (the citizens of the USA) literally have nothing else to loose in terms of the economy.
The Measure of a Man is What He Does With Power. No its the woman in his arms cuz she has big titties.

Formally used to be BreadMold

"old enough to bleed old enough for your seed"-Gator
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JASTEW206
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Jul 30 2012
11:13:19AM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 11:02:35:
I also wanted to note that I am not one to try and start a shit storm because I've been there back in the day and am pretty much over getting involved in them. But the fact that there are millions of people in this country who believe in what Obama has to say is a complete and total mind fuck for me. I will seriously sit down to try and contemplate why these people believe in this man and his policies but I cannot come up with an answer. It is seriously the ultimate mind fuck for me because I truly feel that we should be doing the complete opposite of what Obama is doing.
You're right, I never thought of it that way. This election im not voting for that liar!!
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SterlingArcher
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Jul 30 2012
11:13:30AM
tl;dr
Diversity stole my bike

How do i know that i dont have down syndrome/some similar mentally debilitating condition and i just dont know it? ...everyone is just being extra nice and playing a fun game to make Marcus the mongoloid feel better about himself. -Spinoza

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goodiepocket
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Jul 30 2012
11:14:39AM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 11:12:15:
Seriously, there is no risk in voting for a Republican because we (the citizens of the USA) literally have nothing else to loose in terms of the economy.
...you're kidding...right?




lose*
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ColinB
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Jul 30 2012
11:19:18AM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 11:12:15:
I really don't see how it could be any worse. I mean whats going to happen if we do? Its not like we'll go spiraling into debt because thats already happening. We wont see a rise in the unemployment cause thats already happening. Its not like we risk seeing an intense class warfare because..... do you get where Im going. I say we vote republican because they'll bring something else to the table because whats there right now obviously isn't working. Seriously, there is no risk in voting for a Republican because we (the citizens of the USA) literally have nothing else to loose in terms of the economy.
it honestly wouldnt be any better or worse, just slightly different. some things would get worse, while other things would improve, thus leaving us an ultimately identical quality of living.

despite what anybody in the government says, no presidential candidate that will make any dramatic changes will ever be elected, as they will be viewed as extremist.

Ghandi for president.
hey JWoods, whats the difference between a rodeo and a flatspin?
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ABdrummer
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Jul 30 2012
11:20:46AM
good post
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Rachy
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Jul 30 2012
11:24:47AM
threads for woozy!

So far this is full of lols.
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ColinB
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Jul 30 2012
11:24:50AM
Quoting ColinB from Jul 30 2012 11:19:18:
it honestly wouldnt be any better or worse, just slightly different. some things would get worse, while other things would improve, thus leaving us an ultimately identical quality of living. despite what anybody in the government says, no presidential candidate that will make any dramatic changes will ever be elected, as they will be viewed as extremist. Ghandi for president.
in other words, i think we agree completely
hey JWoods, whats the difference between a rodeo and a flatspin?
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1337Ultimate Bling!
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Jul 30 2012
11:26:36AM
yeah woozy should be here any minute now.

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LiberalSkier
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Jul 30 2012
11:29:56AM
I also wanted to note that I am by no means trying to persuade you to vote for Romney. I am just begging you not to vote for Obama because the man is clearly not helping our country. If you do think that he is indeed helping than please explain to me why you think so because I literally cannot think of one major change he's made that has helped this country. I always hear his supporters say that his policies are helping the countries economy, but they always forget to explain as to how. Is there some unknown statistic out there that shows that we are getting better because I really cant seem to find one. Every stat I look at shows that our country is on the one way trip down the shit so I have no reason to be optimistic. It is actually depressing because I know that the people around my age 18-29 are inevitably going to be hit the hardest by our countries incompetencies and that makes me fucking pissed. I don't want to have to pay the price for someone else's mistakes. I especially don't want to pay for it while I watch them wash-away into retirement with a complete disregard in fixing their mistakes.
The Measure of a Man is What He Does With Power. No its the woman in his arms cuz she has big titties.

Formally used to be BreadMold

"old enough to bleed old enough for your seed"-Gator
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jeR.
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Jul 30 2012
11:32:31AM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 10:52:04AM:
As if it wasn’t enough that he last week went off on small business owners for having pride in their accomplishments,
lost credibility here already. why don't you try and actually listen to what the man is saying rather than what fox news told you he said. he simply meant that no business is an individual enterprise, and that a nation is interconnected and everybody's accomplishments are due in some part to the work of others, so why not act this way
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LiberalSkier
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Jul 30 2012
11:38:05AM
I too believe that neither candidate can drastically change the condition of our country because we've dug our selves too deep of a hole to get out of. But I am all about limiting the power of the federal government to an absolute max. So its obvious as to why I don't like Obama because he wants as much power as he can possibly get and thats nothing but the truth.
The Measure of a Man is What He Does With Power. No its the woman in his arms cuz she has big titties.

Formally used to be BreadMold

"old enough to bleed old enough for your seed"-Gator
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iRapeKittens
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Jul 30 2012
11:39:47AM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 11:38:05:
he wants as much power as he can possibly get and thats nothing but the truth.
This applies to both Romney and Obama.
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Jenifa$$
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Jul 30 2012
11:44:31AM
implying george bush ever thought he was wrong...
"girls are like crows, they like shiny things" - soulskier
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MTM$
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Jul 30 2012
11:44:36AM
fucking politics is just a bunch of dick measuring. you know what would be nice? a president who truly cares about the people of the united states, no matter what race, gender, or party they are, or if they are gay or not. too bad that will never happen because thats just how our government works. in order to be elected you have to stand for one thing or another, you can't just stand for everything. /endrant
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eldridge
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Jul 30 2012
11:46:25AM
heres a shaved cat laying in a bag

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above all things, if kindness is your king, then heaven will be yours, before you meet your end.
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ski.cats
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Jul 30 2012
11:46:54AM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 11:29:56:
by our countries incompetencies
lol
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ski4fun420
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Jul 30 2012
11:51:48AM
Quoting iRapeKittens from Jul 30 2012 11:39:47:
This applies to both Romney and Obama.
I agree. This is a huge problem too. Too many greedy assholes in our country. We need someone like Mr. Bishop to run for President.
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Jenifa$$
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Jul 30 2012
11:53:49AM
cats also like boxes

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"girls are like crows, they like shiny things" - soulskier
"i love cardigans more than sex" - not_a_gangster
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eldridge
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Jul 30 2012
11:55:31AM
and memeing

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above all things, if kindness is your king, then heaven will be yours, before you meet your end.
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O.G.Surachai
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Jul 30 2012
11:56:48AM
Quoting ColinB from Jul 30 2012 11:19:18:
despite what anybody in the government says, no presidential candidate that will make any dramatic changes will ever be elected
Yeah FDR and his new deal didn't change a thing, neither did GW and his two wars . Clearly no electable presidential candidates have ever had any influence on where the nation goes.
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ColinB
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Jul 30 2012
12:03:10PM
Quoting O.G.Surachai from Jul 30 2012 11:56:48:
Yeah FDR and his new deal didn't change a thing, neither did GW and his two wars . Clearly no electable presidential candidates have ever had any influence on where the nation goes.
Last i checked we were talking about the upcoming election... not previous elections.

I'm not saying that a candidate with radical ideals will NEVER get elected again, I'm just saying that in this election, nobody with dramatically new or different ideas will get elected.



hey JWoods, whats the difference between a rodeo and a flatspin?
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Tree60$
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Jul 30 2012
12:03:28PM
I would be much more frightened if romney was elected. He has recently said that his troubles "don't come from the fact that hes saying them, but that people are writing stuff down."

We also have no idea what romney would do if he was in office, because he has flip flopped so many times in the past couple years. take this video as proof.



He has also said that he would get rid of the public eduaction system and that "people should get the education that they can afford." But he hasn't ever seen any side of being poor. Once, when talking about the problem of college loans he said something along the lines of "why can't people just borrow 200 grand from their parents?"

I'm not saying that Obamas always right, or that he has fulfilled all of his promises, but I know that I wouldn't trust Romney with the power of the presidency.
"Say goodbye to abstinence and wave your lonely penis goodbye, as the train to Bonerville is departing, choo-choo!"- Mike-O

I wear baggy clothes because fuck you.-Slandypoo
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LiberalSkier
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Jul 30 2012
12:10:34PM
Quoting jeR. from Jul 30 2012 11:32:31:
lost credibility here already. why don't you try and actually listen to what the man is saying rather than what fox news told you he said. he simply meant that no business is an individual enterprise, and that a nation is interconnected and everybody's accomplishments are due in some part to the work of others, so why not act this way
First of all, I haven't taken out student loans for the past two and a half years for nothing. I know the difference between an opinion and a fact and I don't base my opinion off of the opinions that are frequently broadcasted on "fox news." How about you liberals stop this ridiculous idea that every conservative out there derives their opinions off of what fox news has to say. How about you start treating us like human beings and accept the fact that there are conservatives out there who developed their opinions through an extensive education because that is the truth and if you cant accept that than I don't even want to spend the time talking to you. Give me a liberal who can accept that truth because then I'll know that that person is at least intelligent enough to know the actual reality of things.

Im stopping this right here and am not going to discuss these issues any further with you because I need to here the opinions of a liberal who at the very least knows the correct definition of the word credibility. Then I can get some valuable insight on how the other side thinks because I would at least be talking to someone who is actually somewhat in touch with reality.
The Measure of a Man is What He Does With Power. No its the woman in his arms cuz she has big titties.

Formally used to be BreadMold

"old enough to bleed old enough for your seed"-Gator
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B-WASS
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Jul 30 2012
12:19:52PM
black steve for president
-Bobby "Billy" Wassman

shredding the bumps

Holderness '14
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sniche
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Jul 30 2012
12:25:48PM
Quoting Tree60$ from Jul 30 2012 12:03:28:
I would be much more frightened if romney was elected. He has recently said that his troubles "don't come from the fact that hes saying them, but that people are writing stuff down." We also have no idea what romney would do if he was in office, because he has flip flopped so many times in the past couple years. take this video as proof. He has also said that he would get rid of the public eduaction system and that "people should get the education that they can afford." But he hasn't ever seen any side of being poor. Once, when talking about the problem of college loans he said something along the lines of "why can't people just borrow 200 grand from their parents?" I'm not saying that Obamas always right, or that he has fulfilled all of his promises, but I know that I wouldn't trust Romney with the power of the presidency.
This is complete shit.

You are taking quotes from a man who has been to hundreds of rallys. Its pretty damn easy to take shit like that out of context.

Borrow 200 grand from parents? No he didn't say that.


My shits more john blaze then that...
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DallasC$
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Jul 30 2012
12:38:13PM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 12:10:34:
First of all, I haven't taken out student loans for the past two and a half years for nothing. I know the difference between an opinion and a fact and I don't base my opinion off of the opinions that are frequently broadcasted on "fox news." How about you liberals stop this ridiculous idea that every conservative out there derives their opinions off of what fox news has to say. How about you start treating us like human beings and accept the fact that there are conservatives out there who developed their opinions through an extensive education because that is the truth and if you cant accept that than I don't even want to spend the time talking to you. Give me a liberal who can accept that truth because then I'll know that that person is at least intelligent enough to know the actual reality of things. Im stopping this right here and am not going to discuss these issues any further with you because I need to here the opinions of a liberal who at the very least knows the correct definition of the word credibility. Then I can get some valuable insight on how the other side thinks because I would at least be talking to someone who is actually somewhat in touch with reality.
You clearly are basing that statement in the OP, perhaps not on what fox news has to say, but on a piece of mis-information and mis-quoting designed to make the president look like a small business hating socialist. The fact that Romney is running with this so hard is absolutely hilarious to me. And hey, why the hell not. He's a smart guy, he knows that a huge chunk of his voter base won't bother finding the actual source material that that quote came from and getting the full context, because as long as it defames Obama why dig harder?

Will you stop referring to everyone who disagrees with you as liberals? The world is not black and white my friend, no matter how much certain groups love to cling to the "us against the world" mentality. For me, I will continue to refuse to vote republican until they change their stance as a party on social issues, but I can't say I disagree with them on everything.

Your last couple sentences is perfectly indicative of why the Republican party is failing so miserably at connecting with the youth, and why Romney will not win the election. "Give me a liberal that can accept the truth." Who's truth? There is no absolute truth man, you're acting as if there is one way and one view that is correct politically and only half the country(your half) can see it and accept it? Come on man that's ludicrous..

You will never get anything done when you are of the opinion that everyone who disagrees with you is either completely out of touch with reality or stupid. Have you ever seen Bill O'Reilly or Rachael Maddow talk to someone they disagree with? It's disgusting. Don't be that guy.
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein.

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LiberalSkier
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Jul 30 2012
12:44:50PM
I too hate politics but at the same time that hate inevitably fuels me to talk politics at the same time because Im not one who'll use ignorance to counter my hate for politics like so many in this country do. I hate politics because I hate what our countries political system has become which is what I consider to be the new definition of inefficient and ineffective. I blame this on the ever increasing dominance of the two party system which tragically forces our country to become completely divided. As long as the dominance of the two party system is in existence than I truly believe that our country will never see the drastic changes we the people so desperately want.

I know for a fact that there is one man out there who has what it takes to bring this country together again, but he sadly was not seen in the same way I see him by the majority of Americans so the sad reality is that we'll never get to see his ideas in effect. This man is Ron Paul and its a real shame that we couldn't give him the nod because I know that he has what its going to take to be a great president. He's truly the only politician I can think of that doesn't talk like a politician. If you don't know what I mean than go look up any video on youtube where a politician is being interviewed and listen to who they answer the questions being asked to them. You'll see that they will never answer a question with a straight up answer that tells it like it is. Its like they are trying to avoid telling it like it is at all costs because they know that we don't want to hear the truth. Well Ron Paul is the one politician who isn't afraid to tell it like it is because he believes that the American citizens have the every right to not only know, but he feels like the politicians should have no other choice but to answer their constituents questions in a way that doesn't avoid the actual reality of what they asked them. Paul is not going to be the president though so I had to accept this and look at what my other options were and I feel that anyone would be better than Obama because I truly don't think that anyone is as radical as he is.
The Measure of a Man is What He Does With Power. No its the woman in his arms cuz she has big titties.

Formally used to be BreadMold

"old enough to bleed old enough for your seed"-Gator
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skijunkiedtm$
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Jul 30 2012
12:45:36PM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 12:10:34:
First of all, I haven't taken out student loans for the past two and a half years for nothing. I know the difference between an opinion and a fact and I don't base my opinion off of the opinions that are frequently broadcasted on "fox news." How about you liberals stop this ridiculous idea that every conservative out there derives their opinions off of what fox news has to say. How about you start treating us like human beings and accept the fact that there are conservatives out there who developed their opinions through an extensive education because that is the truth and if you cant accept that than I don't even want to spend the time talking to you. Give me a liberal who can accept that truth because then I'll know that that person is at least intelligent enough to know the actual reality of things. Im stopping this right here and am not going to discuss these issues any further with you because I need to here the opinions of a liberal who at the very least knows the correct definition of the word credibility. Then I can get some valuable insight on how the other side thinks because I would at least be talking to someone who is actually somewhat in touch with reality.
way to not address what you quoted at all. Stop taking shit out of context and you will be treated as a decent human being.

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Bomber_BoB
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Jul 30 2012
12:49:27PM
OP I didn't really feel like reading your entire argument but I did skim and you said something along the lines that Obama claiming we would be worse off without intervention/stimulus is bullshit since you can't prove it?

I mean you do realize you cannot just stop a recession in its tracks right and change all those bad numbers overnight? The whole point of fiscal policy is to reduce the extremes of the fluctuations caused by the business cycle, not to stop/repair it from happening... O yea you can prove that what was done did help, there was some report done by a 3rd party that showed it.
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WankerTanker$
Karma: 370257
24999 Posts
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Jul 30 2012
12:51:13PM
Anyone who voted for/will vote for obama is a fucking idiot.
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.ZT.
Karma: 43058
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Jul 30 2012
12:54:19PM
OP is sooooooooo smart guys. Let's vote Romney what could possibly be worse than where we are now.

Seriously not sure if your a troll.

I also hope you realize the small business thing is complete BS if you watch the whole video...
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Dinner420
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Jul 30 2012
12:56:03PM
Quoting WankerTanker$ from Jul 30 2012 12:51:13:
Anyone who voted for/will vote for obama is a fucking idiot.
And Mitt is a better candidate?....No. Its not all about the president where shit is flawed. Congress has their heads up their ass and won't pass shit.
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skijunkiedtm$
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Jul 30 2012
12:58:58PM
something big is coming in the next 8 years to the US, there may be some new war, lets hope it's not civil.
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MACAQUE
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Jul 30 2012
1:09:05PM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 11:29:56:
. I am just begging you not to vote for Obama because the man is clearly not helping our country. If you do think that he is indeed helping than please explain to me why you think so because I literally cannot think of one major change he's made that has helped this country.
If you look at the history of the US you'd see that we actually have very few "great" presidents. They all fuck something up. Bush was a terrible president, fucked everything up, and most importantly, started 2 wars. If you look at the history of the US, or the world in general, you'd see that economic growth and creating a surplus are impossible tasks in times of war. When Obama came into office did you expect a fucking miracle? Miracle meaning, turning the economy around in one term in office. No president has ever done that, and if you expect any other candidate to be able to do so you're in for a shock. This is Bush's mess and Obama is going to get blamed for it. Honestly, we haven't been able to judge Obama's performance over the past 4 years because Congress is so damn retarded. That being said, I think Obama is and was the face of social change in this country.
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Alexander_Keith
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Jul 30 2012
1:11:07PM

Turd Sandwhich or Giant douche?

Thank God I live in Canada.

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J.D.$
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Jul 30 2012
1:12:33PM

^Yeah because our choices are way better. People in Quebec voted in MP's who are still in university because they didn't know any better.

OP, did you write that? If not, nice cut and paste hack job, try coming up with your own opinions.

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Alexander_Keith
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Jul 30 2012
1:13:42PM
Quoting MACAQUE from Jul 30 2012 1:09:05:
If you look at the history of the US, or the world in general, you'd see that economic growth and creating a surplus are impossible tasks in times of war.
Well 1941-1945 ended a Gret depression. Jus' sayin.
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WankerTanker$
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Jul 30 2012
1:17:22PM
Quoting Dinner420 from Jul 30 2012 12:56:03:
And Mitt is a better candidate?....No. Its not all about the president where shit is flawed. Congress has their heads up their ass and won't pass shit.
See how retarded you are?

"And Mitt is a better candidate?....No"

Where did I ever say that mitt was a good candidate, a better candidate, or even fucking mention mitt. Fuck, he's just as bad since you brought it up.

This is what's wrong with America. If you don't like A you must like B, if you don't like B you must like A. This is the reason that real positive change won't be happening for a long time. You can't have very much progress when people are ignorantly staying with one shit party or the other.

"Its not all about the president where shit is flawed. Congress has their heads up their ass and won't pass shit."

True, and most of them suck as well. But voting for obama or romney is going full retard.
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alvy.$
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Jul 30 2012
1:18:25PM
vote Vermine Supreme 2012
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Alexander_Keith
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Jul 30 2012
1:21:02PM
Quoting J.D.$ from Jul 30 2012 1:12:33:
^Yeah because our choices are way better. People in Quebec voted in MP's who are still in university because they didn't know any better. OP, did you write that? If not, nice cut and paste hack job, try coming up with your own opinions.

True but we're also not neccesarily stuck with the same guy for even blocks of four years and a deadlocked bi-partisan legislature. We have more functional mechanisms for keeping our politicians honest. These are a constitutional parliament with 3-4 major political parties representing various ends of the political spectrum, a dedicated shadow cabinet whose purpose is to critique and hold those in power accountable and at the very extreme, majority votes of non-confidence to oust poor leadership. We are far from perfect, granted. Especially considering the in-effectiveness of minority governments which we're prone to forming. Still its not like that shitmess south of the border.

That and our national media actually benefits from constructive input from intelligent commentators without relying too-greatly on commercial entertainment and fear mongering. I'd say as a Canadian its easier to find informed debate than it is in the US.

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MACAQUE
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Jul 30 2012
1:21:31PM
Quoting Alexander_Keith from Jul 30 2012 1:13:42:
Well 1941-1945 ended a Gret depression. Jus' sayin.
Actually it was 1939. The only reason it didn't get worse is because other countries, mostly Britain, were sending us money in exchange for weapons so they all owed us as soon as the war ended and Europe was in ruins. Most of our manufacturing during the war was done privately and was contracted by the government. Our debt increased but there were more jobs. Sadly, we didn't get any money back from Europe after the war and ended up spending more rebuilding it, creating a market for our own goods. You're comparing a world war to America acting like a police force in a unnecessary, bullshit war. Congrats.
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MACAQUE
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Jul 30 2012
1:28:26PM
Quoting WankerTanker$ from Jul 30 2012 1:17:22:
This is what's wrong with America. If you don't like A you must like B, if you don't like B you must like A. This is the reason that real positive change won't be happening for a long time. You can't have very much progress when people are ignorantly staying with one shit party or the other.
So much fucking truth in that. George Washington was damn right when he told us not to form political parties.

Although I wouldn't always call it "ignorantly staying" with one party. Social and religious and economic issues are all bundled up with political party and we all want a candidate that embodies our opinion on all 3. If party A has a great economic plan but terrible social policies some people will go with B as the lesser of two evils. Some people are aware of how shitty party loyalty is but have to stick to it since there isn't another option right now.
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zzzskizzzUltimate Bling!
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Jul 30 2012
1:30:56PM
I stopped reading after you took the small Business owners speech out of contexed that's not what he said.
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Alexander_Keith
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Jul 30 2012
1:34:33PM
Quoting MACAQUE from Jul 30 2012 1:21:31:
Actually it was 1939. The only reason it didn't get worse is because other countries, mostly Britain, were sending us money in exchange for weapons so they all owed us as soon as the war ended and Europe was in ruins. Most of our manufacturing during the war was done privately and was contracted by the government. Our debt increased but there were more jobs. Sadly, we didn't get any money back from Europe after the war and ended up spending more rebuilding it, creating a market for our own goods. You're comparing a world war to America acting like a police force in a unnecessary, bullshit war. Congrats.

Well I appreciate yourl-out: I answered too simply. I'm Canadian so correct- its '39-'45. Major American involvement and economic upturn didnt take place until 41, though. The lend-lease program signed on March '41 began a comprehensive liquid and mateiral loan program between the States and Britain. You are not correct though in assuming it was never paid back as beginning in 1951 repayment was to be stretched out over 50 annual payments, starting with five years of deferred payments, at 2% interest.The final payment of $83.3 million due on 31 December 2006 (repayment having been deferred in the allowed five years), was made on 29 December 2006. After this final payment Britain's Economic Secretary formally thanked the U.S. for its wartime support.

There is the tricky issue of the post-war Marshall Plan, much of which wasnt re-paid but by that time as you correctly stated, Europe was a wholesome market for US indistrial goods.

Im not trying to compare WW2 to 'Murca world police. I will say however that local and state economies do benefit from the mass-production of wartime goods (military indistrial complex) I'm not however making any informed judgement on the ethics of that as this is not the appropriate thread.

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Ribss.
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Jul 30 2012
1:35:50PM
Quoting LiberalSkier from Jul 30 2012 10:52:04AM:
President Obama says very strange things, especially for a guy who presumably wants very badly to be re-elected. As if it wasn’t enough that he last week went off on small business owners for having pride in their accomplishments, this week he actually told a rally audience in reference to the economy – with a straight face – “We tried our plan, and it worked.”It almost seems gratuitous to start citing all the numbers that obliterate this claim – the 8.2 percent unemployment, the anemic 1.5 percent GDP growth this past quarter, the soaring federal deficit that will top $1 trillion yet again this year. It’s like when the head coach of a 1-15 NFL team tries to make the case that his team is really good. Why sit there and debate him? You just nod your head and think to yourself, “Whatever you say, Coach.”
OP, I recently answered this question for an essay in my Political Science class, and I would like to hear your response to it. No need to make it too long but I am interested.


"In the latter part of the nineteenth century, Lord Bryce published The American Commonwealth in which he argued that great men are not elected President of the United States. For instance, people of talent are more inclined to go into business rather than politics, Americans prefer magnetic presidents over ones with substance, and many potential candidates are unwilling to be placed under the media scrutiny. Do you agree? Why or why not? Should personality matter? Is this fair? Respond with your thoughts"

I personally think that part about talent is bullshit but oh well. I will post my response if you respond as well.
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