Guide On: How to Buy Ski Boots - Gear Talk

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Subject: Guide On: How to Buy Ski Boots

lyndon
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Jul 29 2007
2:00:27PM

From the responses of my last two boot threads, its apparent you wanted it as a sticky. Now, just because I such a nice guy, I have made a final copy with pictures describing the process as best as I can. My apologies for making so many of these threads, but I feel its necessary for everyone to know how to properly buy boots in the absence of a professional fitter.

Over the past few weeks or so, I have noticed many threads on boots. "Which boots should I get?", "ZOMGZZZ new SPK's?", How do the Lange FR 120's feel?" and so forth.

I don’t really know how to say this, but we cant possibly recommend you a boot on the internet- however, you can assess and recommend your own boot. This may be a lot of writing, but, hopefully I cover everything. If anyone else has anything to add, please do so.

For a proper fit, you have to try on many different models and styles of boots. The SPK has a completely different fit than a Lange FR 120, as does a Krypton and a Scratch. You must try boots on to see what fits the shape of your foot. Your foot has many dimensions that have to be taken into account when trying them on, including length, width, height, and overall shape.

Keep in mind, if you’re a park skier, you may want to look into more park specific boots. Yet, you don’t NEED a park boot for park. Simon Dumont was riding some rec. boots for quite some time. THE FIT, FLEX, AND CLOSEUR SYSTEM ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT THE BOOT IS DESCRIBED TO DO

When getting a boot fit, try to shop when there is no one else around. That will ensure the fitter's undivided attention is focused on you. Hey, even boot fitters get distracted sometimes too!

Some things to watch out for at a boot fitter are variant. If the fitter asks your shoe, you may want to leave. Your shoe size has nothing to do with boots.
If the fitter isn’t asking you about your skiing, you may want to leave. He/she needs to know what type of skiing you will be doing to effectively recommend a boot.
If you, for ANY reason feel that the fitter isn’t doing their job the best they can, don’t hesitate to leave. Your not being rude, your just looking for the best boot possible.

However, some people don’t have access to a boot fitter. If you CAN'T, here are some things to try.

Getting Started
1. Look at your foot, and get an idea of the shape.
For example, here is my foot. I have a moderately wide middle, narrow heel, and moderately wide toe area. So, I need a moderately wide boot.

People with wider feet may have better luck with brands such as, but not limited to: Salomon, Rossignol, and Nordica.
People with narrower feet may have better luck with brands such as, but not limited to: Dalbello, Lange, and Atomic.
(note: different models have different fits. This is just a VERY general guideline.)

2. Fit

Socks
When trying on the boots at the shop, be sure to wear ski socks. Athletic sock, ankle socks, and dress socks are very different. If you don’t have a pair of ski socks, you should really consider in investing in a pair. I use BURTON snowboard socks, just so you know.
[img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1637/picture009jr4.jpg /img]

Do your own Shell Fit. Remove the liner from the boot, and put your foot into the empty shell. Push your foot forward until your toes hit the end on the toe box. You should have about 1", to 1 1/2" between the back of your heel and the shell. If this is the case, the shell is generally the right size for you.
The boot should feel snug. Remember, that all boots will pack out, sometimes after a few runs. You can gain up to 1 cm or so in room after this occurs.

Remove the liner carefully. You can rip them if there is sharp plastic, or something of the sort in the boot.

Here is my shell fit. I have exactly 1 inch.

Never go by the manufactures sizing, or your shoe size. Simply use these as guidelines. A 27.5 Salomon Foil and a 27.5 Salomon SPK are different sizes. If I know you’re a size 9.5, I’m going to try on the 27.5, bust to see. Its not like, “There’s a 27.5, I’m buying it!”

DON’T BUY YOUR BOOTS TOO BIG. THIS CAN CAUSE INJURY, AND RUIN YOUR FUN ON THE SLOPES!!

3. Put the boot on, with the liner in, and buckle it up. Get a feel for it by flexing it forward. Keep in mind the boot is going to feel substantially stiffere when your out riding in the cold. If you feel pressure points, you probably don’t want that specific boot.

Some boots have a lot of adjustability. I’ve moved the instep buckle of my foils to the back position. This helps to keep my narrow heel locked into the heel cup, but pulling it downwards and back, much like a snowboard binding, or a Dalbello Krypton boot.

4. Take your time!
Take your time! Take your time! Take your time! I can’t stress this enough! Patience is crucial in buying good fitting boots.
Buying boots isn’t an impulse purchase like a cute handbag or a trashy mini-skirt! A good analogy is dating. Your almost never marry your first girlfriend, and the same with boots. You need to go out with as many girls(boots) as you can, and then marry(purchase) the one that you love(fits) you best. There are plenty of great boots out there, so try on many, and you will find the perfect one!
Another way to improve your experience is to go shopping for boots alone. If your going with a friend/parent, your opinions can actually be swayed by their own. Also, try to leave the look of the boot out of your final decision. Its great to have a good looking boot, but if you are buying more for the looks, you will sacrifice comfort and performance.
Look for boots over the summer. This way, you wont feel any rush to buy them, and, in doing so, may come across another boot, or a better deal later on.

5. Price
Don't let the price of the boot intimidate you. Often, the more you spend, the better quality you are getting. Think of boots as an investment in your skiing, and your comfort on the hill. If you see boots that aren’t in your budget, try to get a deal on them, or buy the boots first, and buy your skis/bindings later. Your cant put a price on comfort! I paid 400$ for my Foils after the final fitting, and I couldn’t be happier with my purchase. I was only planning on spending 200$, but, I’m very glad I spent the extra money.

6. Comfort?
Too comfortable can be a problem. Too many folks look for boots that feel cozy, like a well-worn pair of bedroom slippers. The biggest mistake you can make is buying too big. Boots should fit snugly—like a firm handshake. But, when you ski as little as three runs, the boot will pack out. And, remember, you’re dealing with new, stiff pieces of foam, plastic and leather. It takes a while to break those materials in. If they feel a bit tight in the shop, keep them on for fifteen minutes and let them set into your foot.

7. Cuff
Never buy a boot without cuff adjustment. Practically every boot nowadays does, but just keep that in mind. Macro-Adjust buckles, power-straps, canting, and other cuff and tongue adjustability is great, but not something to be played around with, especially canting.

8. Type of skier?
Think about what kind of skiing you plan to do. Typically, a park skier will want a boot more flexy and forgiving. Someone charging in the backcountry will want a stiffer, more responsive boot.
Flex Guide
These are only a guideline, remember, its all personal preference.
All companies flex indexes are different, and your personal preference varies, but here it goes.

Park- 70-85
All Mtn.- 80-95
BC- 90-110
Charging- 105-120

9. Shape of the boot.
When looking at boots, look for one that traces the same shape as you calf. People with a smaller calf will need a different shape than people with a wider calf. Some boots have adjustments that can be made to increase and decrease volume in this area. It is important that this is not too tight-you may loose circulation and have cold feet, yet it is important it is not too loose- the dreaded shin bang!

10. Final "Steps"
Be sure to try on BOTH boots. Your left foot may be different from your right foot, so be sure to try on both. I cant stress enough to TAKE YOUR TIME. Sit in the shop for 45 minutes with the boots on. I’m sure they wont care, unless the owner secretly hates you.

Liner
Be sure to wear your new boots around after you buy them to break them in. Some models have a heat-moldable liner. This allows for a more custom fit. A heat mold can be done at your shop. They heat the liner, then you put your boot on, buckle it tight, and just sit, and walk around for about 45 minutes.
For some boots that are higher quality, you can swap out various liners. I know you can do this with some Dalbello boots, switching out the stock liner for an ID liner. I can always get another Salomon liner from a boot using the same mold, but I’m content with mine.

You can also invest in custom footbeds and orthotics. These are all fine tweaks you can do to improve the fit of your boots.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me and I'll try to help out as much as I can!

"Skiing should be more like other "action" sports in which there are many different styles and ways of going about it all in which are accepted..make sense?" -powfoka

powerslide
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Feb 23 2012
8:33:11AM

This thread is so important in relation to baying boots, that i post a link:

http://www.newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/679030/

but the essence of that is in this: (By to nice NS-members)

By : rozboon

Just thought I'd chuck this in here because I see quite a lot of threads about people with foot pain and when people suggest footbeds they're like "yeah, maybe I'll try some".

Pretty much everybody should get footbeds.

The reason for this is that most boots don't actually come with a proper insole. From my experience the higher-end the boot, the less of an insole it will come with. For those of you skiing decent boots without footbeds, go pull the insole out. I bet it's a flat piece of cardboardy fabric about 3mm thick. The manufacturers just chuck them in there so you have something to try the boot on with (if you don't take your footbeds to fittings). I guess they assume you'll get/have a proper insole anyway, if you're buying expensive boots.

The ones that come in the boots provide nil support for your arches so when you're putting pressure on your foot it becomes flatter, longer and wider. This is why your foot feels squashed from the sides or on the toes when you ski despite the fact that it felt great in the shop.

Likewise they have almost no heel cup so your foot can slop around in the back of the boot, reducing control and energy transfer.

In my opinion a good footbed is one of the best investments in your equipment you can make. You'll ski better and in more comfort. You may get away with some $10 replacement insoles from a shoe store but really you should be spending the money and getting a pair of custom molded ones. The difference is just unreal.

Footbeds are a bit of a dark art in bootfitting. The thorey for footbeds comes from podietry and this is not somthing your average ski bum boot fitter knows much about. It takes years to learn and is pretty complex. Because of this your proberbly going to be best looking for an experienced boot fitter with at least 5+ years making custom footbeds.

By : tomPietrowski

So I wanted to answer some common questions about footbeds.

What do Footbeds do?

Footbeds help support the arches of the foot, keeping the foot in a neutral postion and helps with impact cushioning. But what does any of that mean. Well lets start with your feet. An interesting thing I once heard about feet is, every day each foot takes 1,000,000lbs of force just from walking around. With that sort of force every single day, our feet need to be able to cushion impact effeicently. This is what the arches do. They act like suspesion for the foot. But if these arches are left unsurported, they some begin to strech with that much force every day. This is when feet begin to flaten and pronate.

A good footbed will suport the arches of the foot, and help them cope with the great forces involved with skiing. If your foot is unsurpoted, it can feel like your foot streches underneath, and this can cause cramp. The foot will genrally get longer underforce, which could push the twos into the front of the boot.

So if you park ski, a footbed will help support your foot when landing.

What is a neutral postion?

Its best to think of your boots when thinking about this. Boots flex in a fowards motion but not at all side to side. This means for your foot and leg to fit the best they have to match this, ie straight.

When your arches begin to drop or flaten genrally what happens is your foot begins to lean to the inside. This can make your foot apear wider then it actually is. This is called a pronated stance. A neutral stance is simply when the leg is straight. A footbed helps acheive this by suporting your arches to help the foot maintain this neutral stance.

What footbed should I get?

Really the only person who can answer this is someone asses your feet and stance. Unfortunatly this means Bootfitter.

What are the differnces between footbeds?

There are 3 main types of footbeds, below I will list the 3 and the pros and cons:

Trim To Fit

These are your most basic footbeds. They have a predifined shape, and are designed to go stright into boots.

Pros:

Cheap

Easily available

Cons:

Not custom to your foot

Limited selection of shapes

Trim to fits should be thought of as a minimum. They will be better then the stock insole but thats about it. You will always be better off with a full custom footbed.

Example Brands:

Superfeet, Sidas, Sole

Custom Trim To fit

With these footbeds, a computer scans the pressures on the base of your foot, and selects a footbed shpae which best matches you from a data base. This shape is then sent to a milling machine, and a footbed is produced.

Pros:

Better the Trim to fits

Easily replacable. Your foot is kept on record so a new footbed can easily be made.

Cons:

Expensive

Often very firm

Still not totally custom.

These footbeds are great for carving. They support the mid tarsel joint (back of the foot) very well, but not so much the front of the medial arch. This means in practice they have less impact protection compared to other custom options.

Example Brands

Surefoot

Full Custom

These will be your best options. They are usally cheaper the custom Trim to fits but more then standard trim to fits. There are also 2 types Weighted and Unweighted. The differnce is in teh production preocess. For weighted footbeds the footbed is produced when you are standing up. Unweighted are made when sat with no weight on the foot. In my opion weighted are better, you stand when skiing so its better to make the footbed standing, rather then sitting.

Pros:

Fully Custom

Totally customisiable, different flexes, different volumes, custom heel lifts, canting. Pretty much anything you need.

Foot can be postioned for optimal fit

Cons:

More expensive then trim to fits

Need an experienced boot fitter to make them.

Overall if you can get a good weighted custom footbed, this will be your best bet. Get them when you get the boots fitted, it will give you the best fit from day one.

Example Brands:

Sidas, Aline, Superfeet (avoid the superfeet korks if you can)

So thats about it for now, im sure i have missed out allot of things but hopefully this sheds some light on footbeds.

a_pla5tic_bag
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Mar 11 2012
3:06:54PM

i still feel like theres something to be desired from boots to be used in the park. my cuff doesn't really bend that far forward. it kind of moves a bit, then i'm just pushing into the liners and buckles. and since the buckles are attached to the cuff it doesn't really go that far. hmmmmm. i'm fine with them though. they fit correctly and all that for normal skiing.

NS ROLLERBLADER interested in skating? go here
http://newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/615627/
NJ

onenerdykid

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Mar 13 2012
12:11:34PM

Quoting a_pla5tic_bag from Mar 11 2012 3:06:54:
i still feel like theres something to be desired from boots to be used in the park. my cuff doesn't really bend that far forward. it kind of moves a bit, then i'm just pushing into the liners and buckles. and since the buckles are attached to the cuff it doesn't really go that far. hmmmmm. i'm fine with them though. they fit correctly and all that for normal skiing.

Still depends more on your biomechanical needs rather than where you ski on the hill. For some park skiers, what you are asking for might be ok, but for others it might cause more fit issues.

Also depends on how the company constructs their boots. Some boots flex very smoothly, some are like flexing a stove pipe. That goes for both overlap and 3-piece designs. Hinge point location, plastic thickness, tolerance between the cuff and shell, etc all play a part in the issue you are describing.

WE ARE SKIING.
www.atomicsnow.com

a_pla5tic_bag
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Mar 13 2012
3:18:31PM

yeah i took them apart and saw what moves where when everything bends and i understand how it works now. i see what i would change to bring about differences too but i think i'll hold off on that cause they work fine just now.

NS ROLLERBLADER interested in skating? go here
http://newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/615627/
NJ

.ZT.
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Mar 19 2012
11:09:45AM

I don't think growing teens should get very expensive boots, because they will only last a year or so.

"If anyone needs me i'll be trollin' ns"-Z@Ñd3rT0w3r

bgeast
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Mar 20 2012
5:07:58PM

I used the boot guide

Smilemon
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Apr 28 2012
6:54:31PM

Well, I read the entire 11 page thread, and did lots of other internet research, but I still have some questions.

Background info:
--I have an older pair of Full Tilts (Hotdoggers). They are a 27.5, and I have approximately one inch (maybe 7/8ths) of space in the shell when my toes are fully forward (measured with a piece of cardboard, just kept cutting it down until it fit snug between my heel and the shell, then measured it).
--The liners were never heat molded to my feet because I bought the boots used.
--I have pretty severe knock knees, and a very shallow arch. Although my knees turn in a lot, my feet are very duck-footed. I can completely turn out (heel one foot lined up to the toes of my other foot), without putting much pressure on my ACL. I have custom orthotic to mildly correct this in my running shoe, but I usually wear Sperrys or skate shoes, so my foot isn't used to a lot of manipulation.
--My calves are super skinny, and it's hard to get a snug fit against my shin even with the top buckle and strap pulled tight.

How the boot performs now.
***These boots absolutely saved my shins. My last two pairs of boots were too large and had little flex. I do a lot of drops/park, and used to get nasty shinbang. These FT's entirely stopped that problem. That made me happy for the time being, but now I'm starting to focus on details of bootfitting that never even occurred to me before.
--I know I'm not getting very good energy transfer to my skis, the FT's are flexy, and that combined with my weird knees means that I don't get up on edge as much as I should.
--My ankles tend to get chafed/blistered, and while socks help that a lot, I'm curious as to what other people do to pad their ankles.
--These boots feel a bit sloppier than my old Technicas, and I could especially sense this when I demoed pow skis. I didn't run into any problems (drops felt good), but I could foresee responsiveness issues on bigger lines.

Specific Questions:
--Are these boots too big for me? The shell space of 7/8ths of an inch seems on the roomier side. They are a little tight on the sides around the ball of my foot, but not anywhere else. My foot measures 26cm long when I stand on a ruler, and about 10.5 cm wide (from the widest point of my ball, and when I put all my weight on one foot).
--The boots are pretty old, and I need to replace the Heel Pads. How much toe wear is too much before the boots will be unsafe to use in FKS 155 bindings (pics of wear are attached). Can a toe be built up?
--While I'm ordering heel pads, would it be worth it to get cuff spoilers? They are advertised to help fit in chicken legged people.
--I have the Active Shock FT footbed. It was mentioned by SKIRACK that it is difficult to put a footbed into Full Tilts. Is this true? Is there a good place in the Seattle-Tacoma area to get this done?
--Would heat molding the liners be worth it? I'm not even sure how much life is left in them, or if they are too packed out to remold.
--Does anyone have experience touring with FT boots? Using MFD adapter plates and FKS pivots? How do they do for short treks?

Pics of toe and heel wear.

Fin.
Sorry for the long winded post, if you have answers to all/any of my questions I'd really appreciate it. I'm really looking for ways to make these boots work better than they already do. I don't currently have the budget for new boots, but I'm not ruling that possibility out completely.

Also, I'm open to the idea of modding gear myself. I'm handy with tools, and I like DIY projects. If I really fuck up, I'll buy new boots.

onenerdykid

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Apr 29 2012
6:53:59AM

^Your boot sounds like it is probably the right size (impossible for us to be 100% sure since we can't physically check how accurate the description of your shell fit is, but it sounds pretty ok).

The chafing and rubbing on your ankle is caused by movement. Movement is caused by a lack of support. You really need to get a specific footbed made for your ski boots. AND you should have a footbed specifically made for your everyday shoes. You do the most help/harm to your feet in your everyday shoes, so make sure you wear something in your skateshoes or everyday whatevers.

If you've found a boot that works for your foot, which it sounds like you have, I would stick with that shell design. Have a footbed made for them, and also for your street shoes, and have your boot-fitter dial in the rest of it AFTER your footbed has been made.

WE ARE SKIING.
www.atomicsnow.com

.RYAN66$
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Apr 29 2012
5:54:25PM

Pretty spot on, like always, ^. If you are getting footless I would also recommend a new liner. Or if your getting a new boot all together then make sure you get that liner molded and a foot bed, it will make your boot feel so much better.

Pics man, I can't wait to see what someone black through marriage looks like - [sebastian]

a bunch of guys arguing about which cock they find better looking... - El Gato

COCKTOMUS_PRIME
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May 11 2012
12:41:36PM

damn this is an old thread

Go Faster or Suck Less

catface
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May 21 2012
7:51:01AM

Quoting lyndon from Aug 13 2007 7:01:49:
Very true. However,I did have a set of booster straps, adn they werent too much use. I couldnt replace my powerstraps on my Foils, so I just put them over the original power straps. Maybe thats why they didnt help too much?

Booster straps are really great but only when used on a two-piece boot. A three piece boot has progressional flex already, as the tongue-piece (which determines the boots flex's) of the boot allows you to flex smoothly in and out of it. The two-piece boot however does not as it's flex is determined by the cuff-piece of the boot, and once it is flexed to a certain point it stops and cannot go any further. The booster straps therefore help to make the flex of a two-piece boot progressional/smooth and subsequently more responsive like that of the three-piece boot. If you have a three-piece boot such as a dalbello or a full-tilt, the booster strap is a nice addition but it's effect will be minimal.

onenerdykid

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May 22 2012
6:40:25AM

Quoting catface from May 21 2012 7:51:01:
A three piece boot has progressional flex already, as the tongue-piece (which determines the boots flex's) of the boot allows you to flex smoothly in and out of it. The two-piece boot however does not as it's flex is determined by the cuff-piece of the boot, and once it is flexed to a certain point it stops and cannot go any further.

Depends. Not all 3-piece boots have progressive tongue designs and not all 2-piece boots lack a progressive flex.

The realistic range of boot flex is pretty much the same for all boots. It's just how progressive can you make the flex within that realistic range which counts. It can be done with both 3 and 2 piece boots depending on the design of each.

WE ARE SKIING.
www.atomic.com

cobra_commander$
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May 22 2012
1:08:47PM

Quoting catface from May 21 2012 7:51:01:
Booster straps are really great but only when used on a two-piece boot. A three piece boot has progressional flex already, as the tongue-piece (which determines the boots flex's) of the boot allows you to flex smoothly in and out of it. The two-piece boot however does not as it's flex is determined by the cuff-piece of the boot, and once it is flexed to a certain point it stops and cannot go any further. The booster straps therefore help to make the flex of a two-piece boot progressional/smooth and subsequently more responsive like that of the three-piece boot. If you have a three-piece boot such as a dalbello or a full-tilt, the booster strap is a nice addition but it's effect will be minimal.

wat?

"I have no patience for fat people, women or hurt feelings"

- Mean ol' Ranger Bob. (The late MOH recipient (SF) Col. Bob Howard)

"20 years of blood, sweat, and no tears"
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Cyanicenine
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Jul 17 2012
3:04:18AM

The OP spoke a lot about making sure there were no pressure points, but I found that this was not the case for me. As someone with a really narrow heel the only way I finally got a boot to fit properly was to buy one that was painfully narrow in my forefoot but perfect in the heel and then have the forefoot area ground out. Once I did this to my current boots they fit amazingly well, with none of the heel lift I've consistently had in all my other boots. Previously I was getting boots that felt snug enough and then just throwing butterfly's and shims in there to deal with my heel looseness. This was only a temporary solution though as the shims and foam would inevitably break down and I'd be right back to the same old heel looseness.

My current boots have over 100 days on them and they still have incredible grip. Shell modifications are a much better solution to boot fitting then throwing foam and shims in there. You can always make a shell bigger, but you can't ever make it any smaller. Erring on the side of too small seems to be the way to go if you want a performance fit.

Blake.P$
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Jul 22 2012
3:10:56PM

Shell mods should be a last resort, it's better to try other things first because you can't go back once you start making mods to the shell

WSTCC

onenerdykid

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Jul 23 2012
9:27:36AM

Quoting Blake.P$ from Jul 22 2012 3:10:56:
Shell mods should be a last resort, it's better to try other things first because you can't go back once you start making mods to the shell

While I agree that you should try on a few boots and get the best fit out of the box as possible, you shouldn't shy away from having the shell/cuff worked on.

A typical ski boot only has one foot shape and one geometry, whereas feet and body types come in all different shapes and sizes (even on the same person). To hope that a boot fits perfectly out of the box without any modification to it is a bit unlikely.

To protect yourself from buying a boot, getting lots of work done to it but only to have it not fit properly in the end, make sure the shop you buy the boot from has a boot-fit guarantee.

WE ARE SKIING.
www.atomic.com

PaddyK
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Aug 6 2012
10:49:23AM

I have a problem? If anyone can help it'd be sicky! I got some langes atm (not freestyle boots i dont think) would it be a big difference to get salomon spk's or are they too narrow? Also is there any boot similar to langes as I have quite wide feet?

Cheers!

Paddy

BING BONG BOOM!

cobra_commander$
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Aug 6 2012
11:47:21AM

Quoting Blake.P$ from Jul 22 2012 3:10:56:
Shell mods should be a last resort, it's better to try other things first because you can't go back once you start making mods to the shell

I disagree with almost everything you said.

"I have no patience for fat people, women or hurt feelings"

- Mean ol' Ranger Bob. (The late MOH recipient (SF) Col. Bob Howard)

"20 years of blood, sweat, and no tears"
-Chuck D

cobra_commander$
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Aug 6 2012
11:48:16AM

Quoting PaddyK from Aug 6 2012 10:49:23:
I have a problem? If anyone can help it'd be sicky! I got some langes atm (not freestyle boots i dont think) would it be a big difference to get salomon spk's or are they too narrow? Also is there any boot similar to langes as I have quite wide feet? Cheers! Paddy BING BONG BOOM!

I would suggest finding Garcia, and seeing what he has to say. That would probably help you the most in the long term.

"I have no patience for fat people, women or hurt feelings"

- Mean ol' Ranger Bob. (The late MOH recipient (SF) Col. Bob Howard)

"20 years of blood, sweat, and no tears"
-Chuck D

Uah
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Sep 16 2012
6:49:01AM

Thread is so so very long, and many posts are not up to date boot model wise. Sorry if this has already been covered many times over.

I am a skin and bones 5'10, 130 pound male human with skinny/thin feet. My shoe size is 9.5 and I ski very aggressively, pure park 100% of the time.

How well would full tilts or SPKs work for me? I have been riding first gen SPKs since the day they came out and I have been in love ever since. In fact I have been afraid to get new boots they were so good. But this may just be dumb luck and I should really be riding a different boot.

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ObeseBunny$
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Oct 11 2012
2:24:35PM

Is the lower leg supposed to have some pivoting at the ankle?

For example:

My full tilts seem to fit okay, but i feel out of control because my calf moves way too much, even when my boots are on tightly. Should i shove some beer koozies in there or something?

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onenerdykid

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Oct 12 2012
3:49:30AM

^you could have too thin of a leg for the cuff diameter of the boot, or you could simply be in the wrong size boot to begin with (which is more common than not).

Ideally, take your boots to your local boot-fitter. There are about 5 different things he/she can do which can take up excess volume in the right spots, without creating pressure points at the same time.

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ObeseBunny$
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Oct 22 2012
10:40:32PM

Quoting onenerdykid

from Oct 12 2012 3:49:30:
^you could have too thin of a leg for the cuff diameter of the boot, or you could simply be in the wrong size boot to begin with (which is more common than not). Ideally, take your boots to your local boot-fitter. There are about 5 different things he/she can do which can take up excess volume in the right spots, without creating pressure points at the same time.

Thanks for the advice. One question though, the best places for fitting boots around me doesn't carry full tilts. Can they still help me out?

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Oct 23 2012
8:41:16AM

I have some Salomon mission RS8 boots from like 2009 (http://www.rei.com/product/805346/salomon-mission-rs-8-ski-boots-20082009-closeout) - when I bought them I didn't really know too much about boot fitting, but anyway I don't get to ski that often (maybe a couple of weeks a year). The boots feel ok, never give me any pain etc when skiing but I feel like I could maybe drop down a size. Theyre 27.5, but at the time I tried a shell size down and it really felt uncomortably small so I went with the 27.5's.

After reading all this info on boot fitting I did a shell check recently (I don't even think this was done when I bought them!). Where the boot is behind the achilles there's not too much of a gap, but the heel kind of bulges out at the bottom (as normal) and I have what looks like nearly a 1.5 - 2" gap behind my heel.

Just wondering how accurate the shell check is for finding the right size boot.

In a bit fo a dilemna, the boots feel fine and never hurt/ache but just can't help feeling like a size down could feel better.

Got some FKS bindings that i'm waiting to mount, so I really don't want to mount them just yet until I figure it out :/ as there won't be much room for adjustment if I mount for cuurent boots.

I thinking of trying some other boots on, I kind of like the stiffness rating of this boot, and seems to work for me in the park and all over the mountain etc, so i'd be looking for something of a similar spec...if anyone has any suggestions for similar boots that'd be cool. I know I should just get what fits, but something in a similar ball park would be nice.

Thanks

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Oct 23 2012
9:37:58PM

can the plastic that makes up a boot be weakened and stay weak because of heat exposure?

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Oct 23 2012
10:57:05PM

I just picked up a pair of boots from US Outdoor Store in Portland, OR. The customer service was amazing! My boot fitter was Dana and did exactly what was said in the original post on this thread. I went in open minded and tried on close to 10 pairs of boots. I have a medium wide foot and toe box with a narrow heal. I also have larger athletic calves. I have always skied in salomons but ended up going with Nordica FireArrow F2's. They weren't cheep, but fit my foot like a glove. "Take your time"

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Oct 24 2012
11:54:59AM

Quoting ObeseBunny$ from Oct 22 2012 10:40:32:
Thanks for the advice. One question though, the best places for fitting boots around me doesn't carry full tilts. Can they still help me out?

Yes, any shop that is proficient in boot-fitting can help you out, just be prepared to be charged for it since you did not buy the boots there. Give them a call and ask for a rough price quote.

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onenerdykid

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Oct 24 2012
11:56:02AM

Quoting flaghippo from Oct 23 2012 8:41:16:
I have some Salomon mission RS8 boots from like 2009 (http://www.rei.com/product/805346/salomon-mission-rs-8-ski-boots-20082009-closeout) - when I bought them I didn't really know too much about boot fitting, but anyway I don't get to ski that often (maybe a couple of weeks a year). The boots feel ok, never give me any pain etc when skiing but I feel like I could maybe drop down a size. Theyre 27.5, but at the time I tried a shell size down and it really felt uncomortably small so I went with the 27.5's. After reading all this info on boot fitting I did a shell check recently (I don't even think this was done when I bought them!). Where the boot is behind the achilles there's not too much of a gap, but the heel kind of bulges out at the bottom (as normal) and I have what looks like nearly a 1.5 - 2" gap behind my heel. Just wondering how accurate the shell check is for finding the right size boot. In a bit fo a dilemna, the boots feel fine and never hurt/ache but just can't help feeling like a size down could feel better. Got some FKS bindings that i'm waiting to mount, so I really don't want to mount them just yet until I figure it out :/ as there won't be much room for adjustment if I mount for cuurent boots. I thinking of trying some other boots on, I kind of like the stiffness rating of this boot, and seems to work for me in the park and all over the mountain etc, so i'd be looking for something of a similar spec...if anyone has any suggestions for similar boots that'd be cool. I know I should just get what fits, but something in a similar ball park would be nice. Thanks

Yep, sounds like you are in a size to big. You should have maximum 2cm behind your heel when your toes are gently touching the front of the boot.

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onenerdykid

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Oct 24 2012
11:59:13AM

Quoting Pikachu.$ from Oct 23 2012 9:37:58:
can the plastic that makes up a boot be weakened and stay weak because of heat exposure?

Not all ski boot plastic is the same. Low end boots that use Polyethelyne will definitely succumb to exposure damage faster than higher end boots that use Polyurethane. While it depends on your boot, it also depends on what kind of "heat exposure" you are talking about... In order to stretch a ski boot, you need to heat it up, so sometimes the proper amount/duration of a certain temperature is ok.

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Big_C
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Nov 1 2012
8:37:18PM

Also. If u get a chance try tO ride the boots or buy where you can return because some boots even after having a great fit by a professional fitter after being rode may have a problem that can cause a lot of pain that could not have been seen. I had a friend have it done professionally and paid over 550 and the boots ended up killing his shins after he started riding. Just a heads up. Great thread tho.

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Nov 26 2012
6:41:18PM

I have a really wide toebox, fairly narrow heal, and a high arch. Basically triangle feet. I mostly ski big mtn style stuff, and take at least a few laps through the park each week. I also tour a decent amount. My problem is that I'm a fringe size at around 24.5 (give or take for model/brand) and men's boots are hard to come by in that size. I've been looking at the Technica Cochise and the Nordica Hell and Back Hike as potential boots. I was able to try on the woman's version of the Cochise in a store and it felt alright, but I can't find the Nordica's or any other ski boot in a 24 or 24.5 to try on in men's sizes. I ski too hard (ya ya, claim or w/e) to go with woman's boots. I was looking at the Solomon Quest as well, but I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on them. I have heard that Full Tilt makes a good wide boot too, but also can't find it in my size to try on except for soft flex park oriented models.

Any suggestions and/or opinions on those boots and any other suggestions to look at? Also, I ski hard, but I'm a featherweight and only weight 115 lbs. What flex should I be looking at? My current boots were custom fit and are race boots, so I have no idea what flex they are. 90-100ish I think. Do the flex ratings change from brand to brand?

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Nov 26 2012
6:45:43PM

^and for the record, I hate the boots I'm on now. They're narrow Lange's that the shop convinced me to buy the shell and that they could blow it out to fit me better. Never making that mistake again. I got a huge bone spur from them. Definitely need to find a boot that fits first, and then get them worked on.

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.RYAN66$
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Nov 29 2012
10:08:22AM

I am going to recommend the quest max 120. Salomon has the mold able shell that will push out at your wider points and stay narrow at te heel and other skinner points. If you want to spend more money the Fischer vacuum wouldn't be a bad idea.

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Nov 29 2012
10:49:53AM

Quoting .RYAN66$ from Nov 29 2012 10:08:22:
I am going to recommend the quest max 120. Salomon has the mold able shell that will push out at your wider points and stay narrow at te heel and other skinner points. If you want to spend more money the Fischer vacuum wouldn't be a bad idea.

I think I'm goin with the Cochise 110. The 120 was too stiff. Can't find the Quest in my size anywhere to try on, but I tried the woman's version (same shell), and the Lange XT 120. The Cochise fit the best with my high volume, wide toebox, narrow heeled foot.

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blindside$
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Nov 30 2012
11:20:18AM

Thought I'd post this is here:

http://www.wired.com/playbook/2012/11/winter-camp-ski-boots/

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Dec 17 2012
3:41:45PM

Quoting Sock.Jesus from Nov 29 2012 10:49:53:
I think I'm goin with the Cochise 110. The 120 was too stiff. Can't find the Quest in my size anywhere to try on, but I tried the woman's version (same shell), and the Lange XT 120. The Cochise fit the best with my high volume, wide toebox, narrow heeled foot.

what he recommended was the quest MAX. it has a moldable shell aswell as liner. essentially what that means for you is that the shell will stretch to some degree in the toe box but stay relatively snug in the heel. if you still find that there is heel movement try footbeds, it makes a world of difference.

the womens quest boot does not have the custom shell therefore it wont have the same feel.

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Dec 17 2012
8:50:24PM

Quoting JibbaTheHutt from Dec 17 2012 3:41:45:
what he recommended was the quest MAX. it has a moldable shell aswell as liner. essentially what that means for you is that the shell will stretch to some degree in the toe box but stay relatively snug in the heel. if you still find that there is heel movement try footbeds, it makes a world of difference. the womens quest boot does not have the custom shell therefore it wont have the same feel.

thats why I thought it would work well.

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onenerdykid

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Dec 18 2012
10:30:22AM

You would definitely want to do the shell molding with a footbed first, not after. Getting a boot like the Quest Max without a footbed is like buying a Porsche but getting it with a Buick steering column- a waste of potential. It also means that you will be molding the shell to your foot in a collapsed, pronated state (consequently with your ankle, leg shaft, and knee out of alignment) which would be thoroughly less than ideal.

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Sock.Jesus
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Dec 18 2012
2:39:40PM

Soooo, what do you guys think about the Quest Max vs. the Cochise then? I can't find the Quest in my size in shops, but found the Cochise in my size.

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.RYAN66$
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Dec 19 2012
9:08:59AM

Quoting Sock.Jesus from Dec 18 2012 2:39:40:
Soooo, what do you guys think about the Quest Max vs. the Cochise then? I can't find the Quest in my size in shops, but found the Cochise in my size.

by the way you described your foot, without actually seeing it and not knowing the different lasts of your foot it is really hard to tell they are both great boots. I recommended the quest max because you said you had a wider toe box and a narrow heel. the questmax's moldable shell allows the boot to take a different last at the toe then the heel. I would recommend trying to find somewhere to try on both boots side by side. because the boot just may not work for you.

and like Onenerdy said, make sure you get a footbed and mold the liner with the foot bed.

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Dec 19 2012
11:37:59PM

babumba
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Dec 20 2012
1:07:38AM

Quoting Royal-bamboo from Dec 19 2012 11:37:59:
FT

Ya I agree. FT never fail. They're godly

Royal-bamboo
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Dec 20 2012
1:44:45AM

Quoting babumba from Dec 20 2012 1:07:38:
Ya I agree. FT never fail. They're godly

glad someone in this thread knows somthing about ski boots thank gog but srsly FT

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bobbybrand
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Jan 14 2013
2:53:54PM

Hi,

I just bought new skies(Rossignol Scimitar and Rossignol Storm) and a set of new clothes. Now i looking to buy a new pair of ski boots. I have a old pair of Salomon's now, size 30. I dont know what kind, but they are at least 7 years old.

So I want to buy a new pair, but i wont be able to fit them before i buy them. So i was wondering if the sizing for Full Tilt is the same.

And an additional question: I'm skiing more on the mountain then in the park and love to shred some powder. What boots would you recommend me?

Thanks guys!

Later

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Jan 14 2013
3:36:47PM

Quoting bobbybrand from Jan 14 2013 2:53:54:
Hi, I just bought new skies(Rossignol Scimitar and Rossignol Storm) and a set of new clothes. Now i looking to buy a new pair of ski boots. I have a old pair of Salomon's now, size 30. I dont know what kind, but they are at least 7 years old. So I want to buy a new pair, but i wont be able to fit them before i buy them. So i was wondering if the sizing for Full Tilt is the same. And an additional question: I'm skiing more on the mountain then in the park and love to shred some powder. What boots would you recommend me? Thanks guys! Later

I would suggest actually reading the thread you just posted in, at least the original post.

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Jan 16 2013
10:42:11AM

Yo. So it's time to get some new boots.

I'm roughly 6'4" and about 260lbs. I spend almost no time in the park and am currently revamping my set-up. I was on 189 Surface LL2's with 4frnt deadbolt 18s. I kept the bindings and am mounting them on 194 New Life's. I'm 27 and have been skiing since I could walk. I live on the prairies, but try to make it to the mountains multiple times every year. I don't ski often on the local hills.

My current boots are either 2003 or 2004 Salomon 1080's (the black/grey ones) and have a flex of 85. Obviously they are old and beat to, well you know.

There are no shops in Saskatchewan that I've been to that carry boots with a flex of more than 110 so I'll be on the hunt when I'm in Calgary/Banff next weekend. Ideally I'm looking for something with a flex of between 120-130.

Are there any suggestions of boots to look for? Just for the heck of it, I've tried Full-Tilts to see what the hype is about. They don't fit, not so much because of last width, but instead they were narrow in the cuff. I don't care. Clearly not getting them. How about shops in the Calgary/Banff area?

Thanks

///surfaceskis

Breareos
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Feb 11 2013
1:43:25AM

I'm really looking for advice here, because I'm in a bit of a conundrum. Before I start listing the problems, I'll start with the basics.

Background Info:
I am a male, 5'7" (or 170 cm as I'm about as tall as my skis), and about 140 lbs. I own a pair of Dalbellos, size 28.5 to my knowledge, not really sure what they are, as I've never heard of this type of boot. Apparently, according to the side, they are Innovex 7.6 and also say NX custom....whatever that means. Anyways, I did get these boots fitted to me by one of the two local ski shops in my city, and have had quite the extensive amount of work done to them to make my feet relatively happy as illustrated in these pictures I'm posting. I've taken the liberty of circling the parts that were worked on in red:

right boot:

Left boot:

to my surprise, the outside edge of my boot was not punched out. when I took the line is, there is a number 27 on the heel, so I guess that's the shell size.

some shin plates were installed to alleviate pressure I was getting on my shins. Completely solved that issue..

right liner:

left liner:

to my knowledge, these liners are not heat moldable I don't believe.

I also got some heat molded foot beds. They secure my foot very well I think.

How the Boot Performs Now:
they perform generally well, certainly better than my previous boots which were far too large for me, my foot slipped forward quite a bit and absolutely killed my arches since I had no support just the stock foam padding. Before I bought these boots, the beginning of the season it was absolute torture just walking in them to my friends place down the street to hit his box in his backyard. I believe they're about a medium flex, so I haven't had any issues with responsiveness or them being too soft.

I do have some complaints though; maybe it's because it's a two-piece design or something. I have a rather large upper big toe joint in my foot and under hard skiing, the tongue presses down on it, and it causes quite the amount of pain and friction after a long day of skiing. Here's a picture of my foot from the side to show what I mean:

also, here's an image of my foot to show what it looks like when being stood on.

^ the tongue inadvertently presses pretty hard onto that joint, and when I remove my ski socks, it's pretty red and raw, almost numb to the touch. It's a little worse my left foot then it is my right, as the joint is slightly bigger on my left foot.

My toes feel rather cramped in the toe box, and I wish it was wider. also, the boot kind of pushes against my big toe specifically the part where my skin meets my nail. There have been times where it's been quite severe where I literally had to take my foot out of the boot to let it rest and it was almost throbbing. In the summertime, my street shoes are usually my Vibram five fingers, so they've trained my toes to have a much wider stance. They've also done wonders for strengthening my arches. I guess that would be why my toes feel uncomfortable in my ski boots. on the topic of arches, about 80% of the time they're happy, along with the outside edge of the middle of my foot, although they eventually get a little sore. This is probably due to the fact that the main type of lift around here is a rope tow so I'm always on my feet. If I rode chairs all day, it'd probably would be a non issue. Usually I just take a rest and I'm good for the rest the day.

my main two issues with my boots is the toe cramping and the toe joints. That and I think my liners are starting to wear a little thin because my toes are becoming much colder much quicker, and in midwinter it can get pretty dang cold around here; up to -25°C. That's a really cold day, usually I don't go skiing in weather colder than -20.

------

Now I was considering upgrading to a three-piece boot, either full tilts or some higher-end Dalbellos, you know, something with the wraparound intuition liner because I would believe that should alleviate any pressure I get on my toe joint like I've mentioned already. When I was getting fitted, these Dalbellos were the best fitting ones I had, Atomics and Nordica's were all too thin and narrow, and I've never tried Full Tilts on because the store I went to to get fitted are super biased and don't believe in stocking full tilts, or K2s, or Lines or anything made out of China. To make sure, I took the liberty of measuring my feet's width at the widest point while standing on a ruler. They measured to about 98 to 100mm I believe, and I think my current boots are a 95 or that's what they were stock before getting punched out considerably. I'm leaning more towards Dalbellos, just in case I do have to get them punched out because my friend said it would be easier to do that on them (not sure if that's entirely true). The problem is that neither of the two ski shops in my city stock Dalbellos, but I can't blame them too much because there would not be many flatland skiers who'd want to dish out $600 on boots. They have to focus on what they can actually sell instead of stocking everything imaginable. I guess I'm the rare guy who believes that the proper fitting boots should have no price cap.

The ski shop I would plan on buying them from has no problem ordering in a pair, but I'm very hesitant to do that at the moment because I can't really try on the boot before I have ordered. If it's not the right size I'm stuck with an ill-fitted boot... Or maybe not, I should look into whether or not they'd be able to return the boot if it didn't fit or how I would go about doing that kind of thing.

holy crap is this a wall of text, but I thought I might as well provide all the information I can to you guys to help me out on this. I think there's plenty of information..
Some quickly delivered advice would be very much appreciated.

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Feb 11 2013
1:47:26AM

I dang it I forgot to say that when I put my foot in the show alone there is about two fingers worth of space between the heel and the back of the boot. I'd say it's more like 2.5 so it's definitely a roomy fit.

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Feb 11 2013
3:06:37PM

So these are my thoughts. The Dalbello boot that you have is not a narrow boot at all. It is in the 102mm plus range...so just consider it a wide boot. It is also a lower end boot when you look at the scheme of things, so the liner will pack out a bunch and it looks pretty rugged as far as the pictures go. It also sounds like you have a boot that is too long for your foot as well. If you are doing any type of freesking or park skiing you need a super precise fit to feel locked and solid in the boot. I recommend that the maximum amount of space behind your heel should only be 3/4 of an inch. So it sounds like as a whole that the boot was never the right boot for you and know that it is packing out you can really see its true colors. Fitting boots is like the old bed of nails trick, and by that I mean this...you want the most amount of consistent comfortable pressure surrounding your foot (you can lie on 1000 nails but if you only have 10 they will go right through you). If you get a boot on size too big or 2mm too wide then it all goes to hell. It sounds like this boot is too big in most spots and the only pressure that you are feeling is on the most prominent part of your foot. Meaning that instead of distributing the pressure evenly it is all being placed on those problem areas. Yes a 3 piece design might help, but better boot fitters with a better selection would probably be the best. Dont go back the the shop that you feel was supper biased...Also when you said that you tried certain companies on but they all felt too narrow, thats another red flag. Dont cross off entire companies because you tried one of their boots on and it felt funky. Almost every boots company out there makes a range of boots that goes from the very narrow side to the very wide side of things. Every boots company wants to sell their boot, so they make a range of fits and performance levels. But in most shops you will only find a select few from each company. At this point with this boot you are doing what I call, "Chasing the Dragon." It doesnt sound like it was ever a good fit, and even if you keep trying custom stuff it will never become the right boot. Best advice is to start over a a respectable (non biased) boot shop.
Good luck and stay classy my friend.

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Breareos
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Feb 11 2013
6:40:56PM

Quoting SKIRACK from Feb 11 2013 3:06:37:
So these are my thoughts. The Dalbello boot that you have is not a narrow boot at all. It is in the 102mm plus range...so just consider it a wide boot. It is also a lower end boot when you look at the scheme of things, so the liner will pack out a bunch and it looks pretty rugged as far as the pictures go. It also sounds like you have a boot that is too long for your foot as well. If you are doing any type of freesking or park skiing you need a super precise fit to feel locked and solid in the boot. I recommend that the maximum amount of space behind your heel should only be 3/4 of an inch. So it sounds like as a whole that the boot was never the right boot for you and know that it is packing out you can really see its true colors. Fitting boots is like the old bed of nails trick, and by that I mean this...you want the most amount of consistent comfortable pressure surrounding your foot (you can lie on 1000 nails but if you only have 10 they will go right through you). If you get a boot on size too big or 2mm too wide then it all goes to hell. It sounds like this boot is too big in most spots and the only pressure that you are feeling is on the most prominent part of your foot. Meaning that instead of distributing the pressure evenly it is all being placed on those problem areas. Yes a 3 piece design might help, but better boot fitters with a better selection would probably be the best. Dont go back the the shop that you feel was supper biased...Also when you said that you tried certain companies on but they all felt too narrow, thats another red flag. Dont cross off entire companies because you tried one of their boots on and it felt funky. Almost every boots company out there makes a range of boots that goes from the very narrow side to the very wide side of things. Every boots company wants to sell their boot, so they make a range of fits and performance levels. But in most shops you will only find a select few from each company. At this point with this boot you are doing what I call, "Chasing the Dragon." It doesnt sound like it was ever a good fit, and even if you keep trying custom stuff it will never become the right boot. Best advice is to start over a a respectable (non biased) boot shop. Good luck and stay classy my friend.

Yeah, my friend pretty much said that he would've put me in a smaller sized boot. I have no plans of going back to that biased store anymore, I don't like them anymore for that reason. I plan on going to the other store, the one where my brother bought all his gear from and has absolutely had no problems. He told me as arches kill him sometimes, but I told him that's just because he doesn't have any arch support in his boots.

that's the problem with where I live currently, I'm at the mercy of the small ski shop's limited selection. if I could get boots from a ski shop a little further west with a greater selection, I would, but I can't afford that so I got a deal with my Canadian Midwest ski shop. If I had to live with the toe pain, I could. if I could eliminate it, even better. The upper toe joint pain however, that would be something I would like to eliminate as that's the worst. It becomes irritating midday and unbearable at the end of the day. like I said, I can deal with the arch pain that's perfectly fine.

is it possible to have a well performing boot that does not give you any pain? Or is there some amount of pain involved when going with the performance oriented boot? If the latter is the case, can it be distributed or numbed so that it does not become a problem, or that some rest can help make it feel better (as is the case with my arches after lapping the rope too many times)? I have one more question: what an actual heat moldable liner provide a better fit as compared to this cutout modified liner that I have in my boot right now? I plan on getting rid of these boots anyways, but don't necessarily have the money to go out and straight up buy a new pair of boots right this minute. I was looking to save up for next season.

Thank you very much for the quick response, I was honestly thinking it would take a few days.

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