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Bush really didnt know what he was doing.

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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
or did he?




even media sources that have been traditionally caustic in their view of the president have begun to wonder if he just might have been right all along.

fist afganastan, now iraq, palastine, lebanon, and egypt are following suit with increasingly more democratic reforms. Add to this the abandonment of nuclear ambitions by algeria a year or so ago, and you have to wonder.















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Mar 3 2005 8:28PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Oh, damn. Well, it was good while it lasted.

Lebanese Assembly Re-elects Pro-Syria Premier Who Quit
By JAD MOUAWAD
Published: March 10, 2005
BEIRUT, Lebanon, March 9 - Nine days after Lebanon's pro-Syrian prime minister, Omar Karami, was forced to quit under pressure by opponents of Syria's occupation, he was voted back into the post on Wednesday by the Lebanese Parliament.

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Current Reigning NS Idiot: ''why does this -julian- kid post so much of aj is he like your bestest friend? cuz it says u live in British Columbia, i think thats in like south america, and aj is from the states, in oregon' - wskikid102, Member # 59948
Mar 10 2005 2:16AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Oh, and by the way... that massive pro-democratic demonstration in the streets of Beirut? The one in the cover picture of the economist? Yeah... here's one eight times the size.

Pro-Syria Party in Beirut Holds a Huge Protest
By HASSAN M. FATTAH
Published: March 9, 2005
BEIRUT, Lebanon, March 8 - Shouting anti-American and anti-Israeli slogans, hundreds of thousands of Lebanese poured into central Beirut on Tuesday in a show of strength by the militant Shiite Muslim party Hezbollah, which opposes a withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon.

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Current Reigning NS Idiot: ''why does this -julian- kid post so much of aj is he like your bestest friend? cuz it says u live in British Columbia, i think thats in like south america, and aj is from the states, in oregon' - wskikid102, Member # 59948
Mar 10 2005 2:19AM
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punk_rider
Posts: 2327 - Karma: 10
i always said: histiry will tell us if bush ws wrong or right...

i guess history is here speaking... bush was right, the new domino theory works, you were all sooooo wrong.

bush is right



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PUNK'S NOT DEAD!

RAILS SUCK!

POWDER SKIING RULES!

DEATH TO SNOWBOARD-ERS!!

BUSH WON!!
Mar 10 2005 3:11AM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
always nice to know that hezbollah is on your side eh?















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Mar 10 2005 10:28AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
I love how punk rider didn't read the two posts right before him and just keeps obliviously repeating 'Bush was right'. 'Fraid not... the cynics were right. Syria isn't going anywhere.

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Current Reigning NS Idiot: ''why does this -julian- kid post so much of aj is he like your bestest friend? cuz it says u live in British Columbia, i think thats in like south america, and aj is from the states, in oregon' - wskikid102, Member # 59948
Mar 10 2005 10:30AM
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weazelzb
Posts: 4454 - Karma: 12
supachronics got it down.



Some folks look for answers, others look for fights
Some folks up in tree tops, just looking for their kites


Goes to show, you don't ever know
Watch each card you play and play it slow
Mar 10 2005 1:20PM
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Graves
Posts: 460 - Karma: 16
I almost get the impression that JD is pleased that 500,000 pro-terror, pro-hezbolla, pro-syrian protestors poored into the streets. It seems to be the liberal mentality these days. They would rather see democracy fail in ME than see Bush flex and watch the oppressive regimes follow.

Lebanon is headed in the right direction though. This is not over yet. I would also like to point out Egypt's democratic elections, the democratic elections in Afghanistan, Iraq, and in Saudi Arabia. Although it is not perfect, no democratic movements are, but again it is a start.

Coincidence?...I think not.
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Bush/Cheney '04
Mar 10 2005 3:10PM
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Dr.Dealgood
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352
Its just as ignorant for a conservative, to blandly state that fledging democratic steps prove Bush was right; as it would be for a liberal to say everything Bush does is wrong.

Democracy is certainly a system of government, but it is a system which requires tradition and participation in order to be successful. Just because a foriegn nation creates a 'democracy' does not mean its truly democratic, and it most certainly does not mean it will survive. Fledgling steps are exactly that, although profound and positive they guarantee nothing. And to say that it is Bush's genius and planning that has gotten those countries to move towards democracy, well thats an overly simplified, and ignorant statement.

The United States is not even a 'true democracy' - we are more specifically and accurately governed by an elected oligarchy.

Our Iraqi Project was an inadvertent tangent to our original mission to 'seek and destroy terror factions.' Our cause was ambiguous until we settled on something we might actually be able to pull off.

Will democracy survive in the middle east? I don't know. But I'll tell you one thing, saying just days/weeks after something happens that Bush was right and that 'democracy' will work in the Middle East makes you the bigger idiot. It will be decades, even hundreds of years before we can make a proper assessment.
-AndrewP
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Per solitudinem ardere in remedium formidinis dictitabat.
'It is often said that the best remedy for fear is to burn alone.'
Mar 10 2005 3:22PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
Come on now, I don't like to see 'America is the root of all evil' on a sign, but let's be realistic... interpreting events over there in a foolishly rosy fashion is both misleading and dangerous. No, it's not a good thing. That's the point. This whole 'Yay, we won, we can do this sort of thing' attitude doesn't pan out when you look at what's really going on. The Afghan government barely has any control outside of a small area around Kabul; the Iraqi elections have faced criticisms of disenfranchisement, and now this 'Lebanon is Free' parade starts up and is promptly shot down less than a week later. Don't you think maybe it's a bit early to start hoisting the victory flag?

At any rate, I came in here to post this vid... Jon lays this stuff out so perfectly. Gold.

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Current Reigning NS Idiot: ''why does this -julian- kid post so much of aj is he like your bestest friend? cuz it says u live in British Columbia, i think thats in like south america, and aj is from the states, in oregon' - wskikid102, Member # 59948
Mar 10 2005 3:26PM
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Graves
Posts: 460 - Karma: 16
I am not hoisting the victory flag, I just think things are truly beginning to take a turn in the right direction. There is hope for a democratic middle east, where as a decade ago it seemed unfathomable.

The Middle East is full of pro-democratic movements that often go ignored by the American media. Movements like this one in Iran, which is extremely strong and growing.
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Bush/Cheney '04
Mar 10 2005 3:36PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Its really too soon for anyone to claim a so called victory over there.
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'URAAAAFWAAAGAAA!!!'
Mar 10 2005 4:46PM
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Jessbuff
Posts: 2685 - Karma: 17
We are most definitely getting ahead of ourselves. Should we not clean up the horrible mess we made first?
Mar 10 2005 4:58PM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 21
JD dood link. Thank god fifty and game are setting good examples for the middle east. Oh yeah and once a president cares about me and my generation, then ill probably give him support.. But bush, well thats definately another story.



'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G




'The devil only exists because of your belief in him. Same goes for that other guy'- Sage Francis
Mar 10 2005 5:34PM
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nsnski240
Posts: 1623 - Karma: 15
''This will inevitably only create more terrorists, because of the anti-U.S. sentiment invading someone's country creates. For every one Al Qaida member we track down, they will gain many recruits from the hornet's nest that we've stirred up in the middle east''

OR not, if we're tracking them down how would they be recruiting new people? apparently that nest is full of happy, free, democratic citizens now... good call jackass
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Mar 10 2005 5:36PM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 21
wow nski you are some kinda genious.. Okay lets say that the US bombs someones house in Iraq. Those people who died, their loved ones are not gonna be the biggest fans of the US, also put ontop of that the tens of thousands of Iraquis we've killed, they've got homies, and those homies are aming for the US (and they live in the nest). Oh yeah, and the US can search and hunt as much as they want for the terror cells and the training camps, but there are still going to be others, we're never going to find them all. gooooood call.



'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G




'The devil only exists because of your belief in him. Same goes for that other guy'- Sage Francis
Mar 10 2005 5:52PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
more stewart wisdom. this one paints a great picture of the common liberal mentality... we still have iran and north korea..

http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.jhtml?reposid=/multimedia/tds/celeb/celeb_10028.html















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Mar 10 2005 6:15PM
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strongmark
Posts: 3278 - Karma: 883
the whole 'george bush is the enemy' concept is being enforced largely by a whole bunch of easily influenced, no opinion goons who feel like what they see on MTV or out of Michael Moore is fact. they dont understand that these thoughts are completely biased towards liberality and do nothing to show the other side, the republican views. true, bush did make some bad decisions throughout his term, but the intervention in Iraq was a sound decision. as a world power, arguably the most important country in the world, we must use our power to help those incapable of defending themselves using their own. it was not just a sorry excuse to get revenge after the terrorist attacks on our country.

what amazes me is that our generation is naive enough to believe the nonsense being fed to them by the media. its is not all untrue, but people hear it and turn the other cheek to any other sort of opinion that might conflict with their own, leading to their warped sense of right and wrong based solely upon what others tell them should be right. i just believe that people need to use some intellegence instad of just going into it with complete ignorance to any of it, hear what one person has to say, which may so happen to appeal to them because george bush is 'stupid', and believe it as truth, oblivious to any other truths that may sway their thoughts.

a rant, im aware, but i guess im pretty passionate about it all.
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confusion.
Mar 10 2005 6:21PM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 21
dude bush gives away 87 billion dollars in tax breaks to the top 1%. Do you think that they needed that money? But our schools need money, our poor need money, people need healthcare. Our environment needs protecting. These are the reasons to dislike george w, the micheal moores and the 'media' (of which you paint an unsubstanciated liberal picture) they aren't putting the thoughts into my head, I formulated my own oppinions based on what i see going on and what I see the administration turning a blind eye to and the many mistakes they are making whether it relates to foreign policy, fiscal policy, the environment, and so on. What reasons do you have for liking george bush? are there any?



'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G




'The devil only exists because of your belief in him. Same goes for that other guy'- Sage Francis
Mar 10 2005 6:36PM
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strongmark
Posts: 3278 - Karma: 883
i was not at all saying the the entire population is influenced solely by these ideas, but a good majority in our generation are. and the things in the media that people our age are watching are mostly portraying a liberally biased view on things. popular music, televsion, actors, how much of it was supporting bush? and to those without an opinion, much of our nation's young people, these people, the people they look up to, are those who they are willing to side with.
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confusion.
Mar 10 2005 6:42PM
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Graves
Posts: 460 - Karma: 16
^^

Apparently they are putting thoughts into your head because you took the hook on the whole tax break lie.

The wealthiest 20% of the nation used to shoulder 78% of the tax-burden, after the Bush tax cuts the wealthiest 20% of the nation now shoulders nearly 82% of the tx burden. The wealthiest 4% of the nation used to shoulder approximately 50% of the tax burden. After the Bush cuts they now shoulder 52% of the tax burden.

So I would have to say your tax facts are just a weeeee bit off.
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Mar 11 2005 9:06AM
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weenox
Posts: 1568 - Karma: 19
^Hahahaha.....i love you graves.

its typical anti-bushism at action, people like to quote statistics that mean nothing and they interpret completely wrong. i love it.
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in·cu·bus- n. pl. in·cu·bus·es or in·cu·bi -
An evil spirit supposed to descend upon and have sexual intercourse with women as they sleep.

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'To the natural style'
Mar 11 2005 10:08AM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 21
Graves, your unsubstanciated and ultra-vague statistics shouldnt impress anyone.

'The nation's top 400 taxpayers, for example, saw their average income more than double - to $110 million - in the years from 1995 to 1998, the federal tax rate for that elite group effectively fell from 30 to 22 percent.' (Commondreams.org)



At present, those in the top income brackets are already getting a bigger share of total income than at any time since World War II, says Robert Greenstein, director of the CBPP.
The bill's benefits for the wealthy - averaging $44,293 a year for the top 1 percent - are proportionately a bit more than their share of the tax burden, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, based in Washington.

At present, those in the top income brackets are already getting a bigger share of total income than at any time since World War II, says Robert Greenstein, director of the CBPP.

In fact, when growth rates of various industrial nations are compared, those with less income inequity than the US tend to perform better over the long run, maintains Edward Wolff, an economist at New York University.

So graves, my statement still stands, we should stop giving the large, mostly unnecessary tax cuts to the top 4% because it does no good for the US. Maybe we wouldnt have a projected 2.5 trillion dollar deficit? It's that shitty trickle down fiscal policy that you repubs love so much that does nothing for the country and does so much for the rich.



'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G




'The devil only exists because of your belief in him. Same goes for that other guy'- Sage Francis
Mar 11 2005 7:36PM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 21
oh yeah and most my statistics came from an article published on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 in the Christian Science Monitor



'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G




'The devil only exists because of your belief in him. Same goes for that other guy'- Sage Francis
Mar 11 2005 7:38PM
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raull
Posts: 384 - Karma: 2,232
If you had no job right after 9/11 and you have one now, why wouldnt you like bush
Mar 11 2005 8:42PM
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Graves
Posts: 460 - Karma: 16
Bwwwahahahahaha I can’t believe you quoted CommonDreams.org hahahahahaha. Could you find a source any more liberally biased JibOregon? CommonDreams is nothing but a Bush hating “Think-Tank.� Hahahahahaha that is all too funny.

Especially considering that those who make over $200,000 a year pay roughly 36% in to the Feds and an additional amount of taxes to their state. Meaning they hand-over over 40% of the money they earned to the government.

Here is a quote from an article in the Detroit News that I often reference in regards to the tax cuts.

“The report also shows that Bush’s tax cuts have been “progressive� — that is, they have shifted the share of the overall federal income tax burden toward the wealthy and away from lower-income earners. Without the Bush tax cuts, the highest-earning 20 percent of households this year would have paid 78.4 percent of all federal income taxes. Now, after the Bush tax cutes, their share of the burden has risen to 82.1 percent. Every other group now pays a smaller share of the total income tax burden.�

Detroit News Article



Or try this article from the left-leaning Slate.

Here are some of the quotes from the article.

“I know there's a lot of hype to the contrary, but look at the numbers. If you and your spouse have a taxable income of $60,000 a year, you've had almost a 24 percent income tax cut since President Bush took office. (And ditto if your income was just $20,000.) Meanwhile, the folks who make $350,000 a year got a cut of only about 12.5 percent; those who make $1 million a year got an even smaller cut.�

“Overall, the biggest percentage cuts went to the poorest of the poor (those with incomes in the $10,000 range) and the next biggest to those making about $60,000.�

I would recommend you read the whole article and try not to quote CommonDreams.org or the Christian Science monitor. Two extremely liberally biased sources. Oh, and I love how common dreams has an article from Liberal Robert Byrd, a formerly renowned KKK member from the South.

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Bush/Cheney '04
Mar 12 2005 4:44PM
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Doghouse
Posts: 1473 - Karma: 21
Graves, you keep loving bush, i'll keep hating him, obviously I could go and find another umpteen amount of sources that say the opposite of what yours say, then you'd have to go looking for more that try to discredit what i say, whatever dude, the bottom line is that you still love george w and all his shitty politics (i cant understand how you can be a skier and like GW, look what he's doing for the environment you fucking asshole), and for that i pity you son.



'Has you ever had an abortion? Surely you should try something before you say it is bad. Because I was very anti-Burger King, but then I went there and I had the flame grilled, ain't it, and you know it was like amazing.'-Ali G




'The devil only exists because of your belief in him. Same goes for that other guy'- Sage Francis
Mar 12 2005 4:56PM
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DopeMan420
Posts: 37 - Karma: 10
^jboregon, man i agree with you 100%. to bad we didn't have smart people like you helping campaign for kerry. your a good man.
Mar 12 2005 8:14PM
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LINEskier03
Posts: 347 - Karma: 10
first of all...

supachronic99, you could quite possibly be horribly unaccepting in your argument to the fact that most of the soldiers wouldn't be following President Bush if they didn't want to. So to say that we are losing the fight against terrorism is simply ludocris. There are no terrorists' gained when most the Iraq turns out to vote for democracy anyway. That leaves a small margin of those with 'anti-american semitsim'. Please gain a responsible fact before stating something so irrational before our gloriously beautiful REPUBLICAN NATION.

Second of all. If all you lesser men are afraid to follow what the leader or your country is doing, we could quite poissbly do THAT much better without you. If President Bush does reinstate the draft, then you should consider it an honor to fight for such a dignified, acceptable country as the U.S.A. If you don't feel that way, then we really don't need you, or your 'something for nothing' liberal antics. You can just move to Canada where all the pussies are anyway...




CO is where its at bitches
Mar 13 2005 2:54AM
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SteezePatrol
Posts: 10281 - Karma: 36
what is this thread about?
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Mar 13 2005 2:56AM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
kinda got off the topic there... but here we go again.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=580007

Biggest Anti-Syria Rally Yet in Beirut Draws Hundreds of Thousands of Demonstrators

BEIRUT, Lebanon Mar 14, 2005 — Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators chanted "Freedom, sovereignty, independence," and waved a sea of Lebanese flags in Beirut on Monday, the biggest anti-Syrian protest yet in the opposition's duel of street rallies with supporters of the Damascus-backed government.

Monday's protest easily surpassed a pro-government rally of hundreds of thousands of people last week by the Shiite Muslim militant group Hezbollah. That show of strength forced the opposition to try to regain its momentum.

While there were no official estimates of the size of the crowd, Lebanon's leading LBC TV station and some police officers estimated it at about 1 million people. The officers refused to speak publicly because it was an opposition rally. An Associated Press estimate by reporters on the scene put the number at much higher than the approximately 500,000 who attended the March 8 pro-Syrian rally.



Mercy's eyes are blue When she places them in front of you Nothing holds a roman candle to The solemn warmth you feel inside
Mar 14 2005 5:22PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,141
I wonder how many were bussed in by Bush/Cheney campaign managers?

So is this just going to keep going back and forth until there's no one in the country not protesting? Hmmm... maybe we can call that an election, just count up the sides. It'd be completely representative at least.


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Current Reigning NS Idiot: ''why does this -julian- kid post so much of aj is he like your bestest friend? cuz it says u live in British Columbia, i
Mar 14 2005 6:09PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
probably about the same ammount as were bussed in/marched there at gunpoint by hezbollah at the last one.

Mercy's eyes are blue When she places them in front of you Nothing holds a roman candle to The solemn warmth you feel inside
Mar 14 2005 7:03PM
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